non-traditional wondering if its still possible

[ArmyPilot]

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Hello all!

I hope the New Year finds you well. I have a question Id like to throw out there. I have, what I think to be at least, a unique scenario to throw at all of you. If you wouldn't mind, Id like your input.

My background:
School: B.S. in Engineering from United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, class of 2005
GPA: 3.7 (overall) on transcripts, estimated 3.5 science
DAT - havent taken yet due to missing two courses

Current Situation: I am a commissioned officer in the army serving as a helicopter pilot. As to my prerequisite courses I am missing biology and organic chemistry.

The earliest I will be able to apply is perhaps 2011 (unless I can convince the army to let me apply earlier given that I become an army dentist). I know that there is quite a bit of time before I apply. This time line is set as such due to my contract with the army.

My questions are as follows:

-By the time I apply, will my degree be seen as too old? Will I have to retake all the prerequisite courses since I took them a year or so before 2005?

-I am taking a one year independent study course in biology (meaning an accredited university in the US sends me the book, I learn everything on my own, and then they send a test to a proctor OR I take the test via online if I am in an inhospitable place...the latter being more typical) Am I wasting my time with this? I ask because I am curious as to whether or not schools will accept the grade I earn in this course...seeing how its an important prerequisite AND Im doing it via distance learning. I am taking the course now because I want dont want to waste time waiting to take the course back in the US.

-How much will the uniform application reduce my GPA by? I have noticed that some people take a hit on their GPA (usually around .2 of a GPA point). Will the dental schools still take the GPA on my transcripts into account?

-Do dental schools take into account where you went to school? Do they look favorably upon military?

I feel I have all the not as heavily weighted portions of the application taken care of (extracurricular activities, volunteer/service work, evidence of manual dexterity, etc). The DAT - I have time to get ready for that. I am really concerned about my GPA and school (especially the fact that I am not a biology major and my GPA will be 5 years old)

ANY words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for your time!

Respectfully,
-ArmyPilot 😎

 

[Frederico Albin]

I dont think that they will look heavily on your GPA at all, you said that you had a 3.7 overall and thats above average. Now if they will look at your degree as too old, I cant tell you that, but I dont see a reason why they would... They will see that you did well in school and you have alot of extracurricular activities.
Some school do not accept more than 60 credits from a community college some others dont really care, its up to the school. I guess you're just gonna have to check out their websites. Use predents.com for stats and choose your schools, see their credit/courses requirements.
The best thing of all this is that you're not going to be paying for anything, I was thinking about serving the navy as a dentist for 3 years after I graduated, actually I'm still thinking, my girlfriend goes nuts every time I talk about it hahahaha

Good luck Armypilot

 

[blankguy]

Hello all!

I hope the New Year finds you well. I have a question Id like to throw out there. I have, what I think to be at least, a unique scenario to throw at all of you. If you wouldn't mind, Id like your input.

My background:
School: B.S. in Engineering from United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, class of 2005
GPA: 3.7 (overall) on transcripts, estimated 3.5 science
DAT - havent taken yet due to missing two courses

Current Situation: I am a commissioned officer in the army serving as a helicopter pilot. As to my prerequisite courses I am missing biology and organic chemistry.

The earliest I will be able to apply is perhaps 2011 (unless I can convince the army to let me apply earlier given that I become an army dentist). I know that there is quite a bit of time before I apply. This time line is set as such due to my contract with the army.

My questions are as follows:

-By the time I apply, will my degree be seen as too old? Will I have to retake all the prerequisite courses since I took them a year or so before 2005?

The degree will still be valid. The worst they are going to tell you is to retake some of the prereqs since you took them a while ago. I personally am 10+ yrs removed from my undergrad days so it was pretty obvious that I had to retake them. The centralized application service for dental schools, AADSAS calculates the GPA using you old grades and new grades but emphasizing the new more recent grades since that reflects on you now rather than you of old.

-I am taking a one year independent study course in biology (meaning an accredited university in the US sends me the book, I learn everything on my own, and then they send a test to a proctor OR I take the test via online if I am in an inhospitable place...the latter being more typical) Am I wasting my time with this? I ask because I am curious as to whether or not schools will accept the grade I earn in this course...seeing how its an important prerequisite AND Im doing it via distance learning. I am taking the course now because I want dont want to waste time waiting to take the course back in the US.

All the grades will have to be counted. If you are wondering how that will be looked upon call up admissions at any random dental school and get their take on it. Chances are the other dental schools won't deviate too much from the dental school that you contacted. I personally prefer being in class instead of distance learning. I think this is preferred over distance learning, but contact the dental schools to get their valuable input.

-How much will the uniform application reduce my GPA by? I have noticed that some people take a hit on their GPA (usually around .2 of a GPA point). Will the dental schools still take the GPA on my transcripts into account?

I personally had mine boosted because my bad grades were very old replaced with new good grades(As and A-s). They primarily look at AADSAS calculated grades broken down into three separate numbers overall GPA, Science GPA, and BCP GPA. BCP is Biology, Chemistry,and Physics primarily prereq GPA. They will also see all the grades from the transcripts. AADSAS verifies their calculated GPA with the transcripts you send them.

-Do dental schools take into account where you went to school? Do they look favorably upon military?

It won't matter where you went but how you did. If your GPA is 3.7 that is a good sign👍. I think the fact that you have military (i.e. life experience in your case) will be looked upon favorably. Some people get the military to pay for their tuition through the HPSP(Healthcare Professional Scholarship Program). If you do go to this route they may count your years in service now as having seniority over somebody who is doing this without prior military experience. I've heard of plenty of people who started as enlisted then went to dental school after few years in the military and rejoined as commissioned officer in the dental corps. Since you are already in the military I think you might think that dental corps is very cushy compared to commissioned officer who has to risk life and limb to go to hot zones.

I feel I have all the not as heavily weighted portions of the application taken care of (extracurricular activities, volunteer/service work, evidence of manual dexterity, etc). The DAT - I have time to get ready for that. I am really concerned about my GPA and school (especially the fact that I am not a biology major and my GPA will be 5 years old)

Don't worry. Just because you are coming from undergrad that doesn't usually send people to dental school it is not going to stop you from pursuing dentistry. The worst thing they are going to tell you is to retake the prereqs which will refresh your memory to the material that will be tested in the DAT.

ANY words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for your time!

Respectfully,
-ArmyPilot 😎

My words of wisdom. Focus on doing well in the prereqs if you have to retake them. Kick butt in the DAT. You are in far better position than some of the people who've screwed up in their undergrad days. Schools don't mean anything without strong grades and DAT scores.

 

[UCSF2012]

The true answer, unfortunately, is not always what you want to hear. Some schools require that ALL pre-req's be taken within a certain time frame. UNC and Loma Linda are a couple I can name off the top of my head. If one wants to go to UNC, took chem freshman year in college, he pretty much has to apply within 1-2 years after graduation. It's your job to search which schools have a time limit on coursework.

Best

PS - For certain questions, you'd have to contact various schools directly. Purported authorities on SDN aren't the way to go.

 

[SanOnofre2002]

Unless you do poorly on the DAT, you should easily be able to get into dental school. Engineering is a tough major, West Point is a great school, and 3.7 is an excellenst GPA. Being an army officer will help you tremendously. I'm prior enlisted and I think that helped. At the very least, it gave me something to talk about in interviews. Regarding the time factor, I graduated in 2002, which makes some of my prereqs 7+ years old. Some schools might have rejected me for that but I still received 16 interview invitations from others. Plus my overall GPA is -.3 from yours. For your unfinished prereqs, where you take them only matters to a few schools. Get the ADEA guide to dental schools and see which ones prohibit prereqs from anything but a 4 year institution. There's only a handful that care. Since you have your degree and a good GPA, most schools will just want to see a transcript that says you completed the courses. As long as the method you talked about doing it is accredited, I doubt it will matter. (At Midwestern I was told to get my missing micro class any way i could, including an online course.) Be sure to check the different prereqs for the schools you like too. Some require a few classes that aren't on the generic list of prereqs. The only thing that can stop you is not doing good on the DAT. Using my crystal ball, I'll say if your AA and TS are 20 or above, you'll be a shoo-in. If you get an 18 or 19, you'll still likely get in; but you'll have to apply to more schools and may not get into the more selective ones. Use all the DAT preps you can: Kaplan, Destroyer, etc. Good luck!

 

[Shunwei]

The true answer, unfortunately, is not always what you want to hear. Some schools require that ALL pre-req's be taken within a certain time frame. UNC and Loma Linda are a couple I can name off the top of my head. If one wants to go to UNC, took chem freshman year in college, he pretty much has to apply within 1-2 years after graduation. It's your job to search which schools have a time limit on coursework.

Best

PS - For certain questions, you'd have to contact various schools directly. Purported authorities on SDN aren't the way to go.

My understanding is that there are only five schools in the U.S. that have a time frame beyond which the prereq's expire. However, for the other schools, I have not had any trouble at all getting my credits accepted, and I was graduated in 1998. So I have to disagree with the poster above about having to take the classes over again. As long as you don't deal with those five schools, I don't think there'd be a problem.

 

[SanOnofre2002]

Also, since your not applying untill 2011, don't take the DAT too early. Most schools have a time limit for how long your DAT is good for. A lot say 3 years untill expiration and at least one says 2 years. So if you are applying in 2011 (for the class starting in 2012), I'd say take the DAT in late 2010. That should give you time to retake it if necessary.

 

[jmick101]

Pilot,
Dude, you are golden if you do well on the DAT. Its that simple. As for the military helping/hurting you, who knows? I have a guy in my class who managed to go through the application cycle while an officer on active duty, if you want I can try and get you guys in touch. Have you given any thought to the HPSP?

 

[blankguy]

My understanding is that there are only five schools in the U.S. that have a time frame beyond which the prereq's expire. However, for the other schools, I have not had any trouble at all getting my credits accepted, and I was graduated in 1998. So I have to disagree with the poster above about having to take the classes over again. As long as you don't deal with those five schools, I don't think there'd be a problem.

Are you sure about that? I think if there is too much time elapsed the schools in general may tell him to retake the prereqs. The only way to find out is to ask a bunch of schools. I graduated in 1997 retook the prereqs.

 

[Shunwei]

Are you sure about that? I think if there is too much time elapsed the schools in general may tell him to retake the prereqs. The only way to find out is to ask a bunch of schools. I graduated in 1997 retook the prereqs.

Yes, I am pretty sure. Of the schools I applied, none had any problems with the actual time when the courses were taken. The only problem I have had was with one school for its AP policy on taking a certain # of units, but that is something totally different. My knowledge is that there are only five schools that would have beef with this, but I didn't deal with any one of these. Before I applied, I specifically asked the admissions coordinators about this and all said that it would not be a problem.

I should add that, yeah, if your courses were taken decades ago and you are 40-50 trying to get back, then that could be a problem. But most schools would gladly accept the credits.

 

[blankguy]

Yes, I am pretty sure. Of the schools I applied, none had any problems with the actual time when the courses were taken. The only problem I have had was with one school for its AP policy on taking a certain # of units, but that is something totally different. My knowledge is that there are only five schools that would have beef with this, but I didn't deal with any one of these. Before I applied, I specifically asked the admissions coordinators about this and all said that it would not be a problem.

I think the OP should call up a bunch of schools and explain his situation. Every situation is different so what he gets told could be different. Retaking prereqs worked for me it may not for him or wasn't appropriate for you shunwei.

 

[Shunwei]

I think the OP should call up a bunch of schools and explain his situation. Every situation is different so what he gets told could be different. Retaking prereqs worked for me it may not for him or wasn't appropriate for you shunwei.

I agree, calling to clarify is always a good approach, although for me emailing the admissions office was better. That also had the advantage of a hard confirmation. Taking prereq's over again might not be a bad idea to help one review the material again and even to prepare for the DAT, but it's a heavy investment of time and money that should not be taken lightly. One thing for folks that are out of the loop that might be much harder than the courses is finding professors to write useful letters of rec. I guess in that case taking the prereq's might benefit someone.

 

[blankguy]

I agree, calling to clarify is always a good approach, although for me emailing the admissions office was better. That also had the advantage of a hard confirmation. Taking prereq's over again might not be a bad idea to help one review the material again and even to prepare for the DAT, but it's a heavy investment of time and money that should not be taken lightly. One thing for folks that are out of the loop that might be much harder than the courses is finding professors to write useful letters of rec. I guess in that case taking the prereq's might benefit someone.

I think if a lot of time has elapsed like 10+ yrs they could just tell him to retake since courses back then still count towards GPA but otherwise somewhat irrelevant now. In such situations there is no choice but to retake since nobody knows you or they've long forgotten about him. Asking for recommendations would be futile.

 

[Composite A2]

I have read alot about these timeline stiuations, and alot of schools, mind you not all of them, do have time expirations on how long ago they will take prereq courses. As well of course I think the DAT is only valid for three years.

 

[Composite A2]

Hello all!

I hope the New Year finds you well. I have a question Id like to throw out there. I have, what I think to be at least, a unique scenario to throw at all of you. If you wouldn't mind, Id like your input.

My background:
School: B.S. in Engineering from United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, class of 2005
GPA: 3.7 (overall) on transcripts, estimated 3.5 science
DAT - havent taken yet due to missing two courses

Current Situation: I am a commissioned officer in the army serving as a helicopter pilot. As to my prerequisite courses I am missing biology and organic chemistry.










The earliest I will be able to apply is perhaps 2011 (unless I can convince the army to let me apply earlier given that I become an army dentist). I know that there is quite a bit of time before I apply. This time line is set as such due to my contract with the army.

My questions are as follows:

-By the time I apply, will my degree be seen as too old? Will I have to retake all the prerequisite courses since I took them a year or so before 2005?

-I am taking a one year independent study course in biology (meaning an accredited university in the US sends me the book, I learn everything on my own, and then they send a test to a proctor OR I take the test via online if I am in an inhospitable place...the latter being more typical) Am I wasting my time with this? I ask because I am curious as to whether or not schools will accept the grade I earn in this course...seeing how its an important prerequisite AND Im doing it via distance learning. I am taking the course now because I want dont want to waste time waiting to take the course back in the US.

-How much will the uniform application reduce my GPA by? I have noticed that some people take a hit on their GPA (usually around .2 of a GPA point). Will the dental schools still take the GPA on my transcripts into account?

-Do dental schools take into account where you went to school? Do they look favorably upon military?

I feel I have all the not as heavily weighted portions of the application taken care of (extracurricular activities, volunteer/service work, evidence of manual dexterity, etc). The DAT - I have time to get ready for that. I am really concerned about my GPA and school (especially the fact that I am not a biology major and my GPA will be 5 years old)

ANY words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for your time!

Respectfully,
-ArmyPilot 😎

Regardless I believe you have amazing stats and they would be a fool not to take you. Good Luck in 2011!🙂

 

[blankguy]

The problem with courses taken a long time ago is that the instructors may not remember him. Some of them may have even retired since his undergrad days. Some schools do also require LORs from certain course instructors so he can't ask anybody.

I may have been a bit rash to suggest repeats but it is up to armypilot to repeat them if he needs to refresh his memory to help him for the DAT.

 

[oldschool99]

ArmyPilot- I was in the Army for 10 years before I decided to become a dentist. I got out about 3 1/2 years ago and will be finishing my degree this spring. I'm majoring in Biology with a minor in Chemistry/Mathematics. Since getting out I have a 4.0 GPA and my DAT scores are 19/19/19. I have had four dental school interviews and been accepted to all four schools.(Louisville, Kentucky, Indiana, and Tennessee) I just wanted to tell you that having military experience will give you an advantage. Your GPA is great and graduating from West Point is top notch. Having real world experience shows that you can handle REAL pressure and that is what dental schools are looking for. After fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, going to school and getting A's was, IMO, easy. (professors don't shoot at you!) I'm not sure if all the pre-reqs for dental school need to be completed within so many years of attending dental school so you might want to check with each school. As for the DAT, finish the science courses that will be tested on the DAT and then take it. There are a ton of prep books for you to use. A good goal is to get an 18 or higher in each category. (You don't need 20's or higher to get in but the better you do, the more likely you will get interviews). SDN is a great source of information. If you won't be applying until 2011, you have time to get prepared. If it is your dream to become a dentist, go for it! It is never to late in life to do something new. Good luck!

 

[oldschool99]

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[DentalKitty]

I was Naval officer for 5 years (graduated in 2000) and had no problems getting accepted this cycle with my old classes. I did take my bio prereqs more recently though which helped get my LORs since I had no contact with any professors from undergrad. As others above mentioned, you should have no problems as long as you have taken the correct classes at some point and can remember/study enough to do well on the DAT. A good, current DAT score shows you still have the knowledge base they want. And being military, a little older, and having more job/leadership experience than many other applicants was looked upon very favorably in my experience anyway. If you have the GPA, DAT scores, and can carry yourself in an interview, you should have no issues getting accepted no matter when you graduated. Good luck!

 

[dsharp]

I graduated in 1996 and retook the prereqs. in 2004-2005. I have a 3.85 GPA but didn't do well on the DAT. I applied to 9 schools, got rejected from one and haven't heard from the rest. I think good scores on the DAT are the Key! 🙂