Non-URM hispanics?

[JasenClaisen]

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Hi everyone!

I've a question about which Hispanic nationalities are URMs in dentistry. Are all central Americans URMS? What about Cubans and South Americans?

Also, in the premed section they posted a link to a site that gave acceptance rates for applicants based on gpa and mcat. Is there a similar resource for predents?

Thank you!

 

[KoughDai]

Hi everyone!

I've a question about which Hispanic nationalities are URMs in dentistry. Are all central Americans URMS? What about Cubans and South Americans?

Also, in the premed section they posted a link to a site that gave acceptance rates for applicants based on gpa and mcat. Is there a similar resource for predents?

Thank you!

Are you asking this question because you're truly an under-represented minority? Or are you looking for some sort of loophole/free pass to weasel your way into Dental School?

People work hard to earn exceptional grades, pay for their educations, and eventually pursue their passion (or in a lot of cases, a financially rewarding career...the two aren't mutually exclusive, but often times can be), and all of that hard work is undermined by people who are content to merely exceed the averages of their peer group. You clearly haven't been under-represented during your life, or else you wouldn't have the need to ask such a heinous question. Focus instead on your actual qualifications, and maybe even see how you stack up to the actual dental school population that generally busted their asses in undergrad. You're holding yourself to the standards of URMs, when you should really just be holding yourself to the highest standards possible, race/gender/nationality/sexual orientation withstanding.

KoughDai aka "Da Princess"

 

[lmaozedong1]

Are you asking this question because you're truly an under-represented minority? Or are you looking for some sort of loophole/free pass to weasel your way into Dental School?

People work hard to earn exceptional grades, pay for their educations, and eventually pursue their passion (or in a lot of cases, a financially rewarding career...the two aren't mutually exclusive, but often times can be), and all of that hard work is undermined by people who are content to merely exceed the averages of their peer group. You clearly haven't been under-represented during your life, or else you wouldn't have the need to ask such a heinous question. Focus instead on your actual qualifications, and maybe even see how you stack up to the actual dental school population that generally busted their asses in undergrad. You're holding yourself to the standards of URMs, when you should really just be holding yourself to the highest standards possible, race/gender/nationality/sexual orientation withstanding.

KoughDai aka "Da Princess"

You are my hero. Couldn't have said it better myself. 👍

 

[UltimateHombre]

Are you asking this question because you're truly an under-represented minority? Or are you looking for some sort of loophole/free pass to weasel your way into Dental School?

People work hard to earn exceptional grades, pay for their educations, and eventually pursue their passion (or in a lot of cases, a financially rewarding career...the two aren't mutually exclusive, but often times can be), and all of that hard work is undermined by people who are content to merely exceed the averages of their peer group. You clearly haven't been under-represented during your life, or else you wouldn't have the need to ask such a heinous question. Focus instead on your actual qualifications, and maybe even see how you stack up to the actual dental school population that generally busted their asses in undergrad. You're holding yourself to the standards of URMs, when you should really just be holding yourself to the highest standards possible, race/gender/nationality/sexual orientation withstanding.

"Da Princess".... i must say that your arrogance is completely insulting. Everything that you just stated is based on a complete assumption... what if the OP is truly a URM?! You went ranting and raving about the OP's life when you know absolutely nothing about it...

All your pointless statement did was affirm your ignorance for the need of a diverse dentist population, as well as you sound incredibly bitter toward affirmative action. And yes the URM bonus helps, however decent stats are still needed.

Just answer the OP's original question and don't be an assumptive, judgmental douche. Oh and congrats on your 7th post...

To the OP... I dont know the answer to your question... all i have read is hispanics, african americans, and native americans qualify as URM. Good luck in your search. Sorry one or your first posts was responded to so poorly.

Cheers!!! 😀😀😀

 

[UltimateHombre]

Also, in the premed section they posted a link to a site that gave acceptance rates for applicants based on gpa and mcat. Is there a similar resource for predents?

Also check out predents.com and look up the member DocToothache... he is a SDN vet that has a ton of threads with lots of interesting stats!

 

[JasenClaisen]

Are you asking this question because you're truly an under-represented minority? Or are you looking for some sort of loophole/free pass to weasel your way into Dental School?

People work hard to earn exceptional grades, pay for their educations, and eventually pursue their passion (or in a lot of cases, a financially rewarding career...the two aren't mutually exclusive, but often times can be), and all of that hard work is undermined by people who are content to merely exceed the averages of their peer group. You clearly haven't been under-represented during your life, or else you wouldn't have the need to ask such a heinous question. Focus instead on your actual qualifications, and maybe even see how you stack up to the actual dental school population that generally busted their asses in undergrad. You're holding yourself to the standards of URMs, when you should really just be holding yourself to the highest standards possible, race/gender/nationality/sexual orientation withstanding.

KoughDai aka "Da Princess"

You're a little quick to jump the gun. I know I definitely qualify as a URM. Check out my previous thread before you rip on my background and how *qualified* I am.

I just wanted to find out in order to inform my friends, who come from Central, South America and Cuba.

 

[flyingforever]

Are you asking this question because you're truly an under-represented minority? Or are you looking for some sort of loophole/free pass to weasel your way into Dental School?

People work hard to earn exceptional grades, pay for their educations, and eventually pursue their passion (or in a lot of cases, a financially rewarding career...the two aren't mutually exclusive, but often times can be), and all of that hard work is undermined by people who are content to merely exceed the averages of their peer group. You clearly haven't been under-represented during your life, or else you wouldn't have the need to ask such a heinous question. Focus instead on your actual qualifications, and maybe even see how you stack up to the actual dental school population that generally busted their asses in undergrad. You're holding yourself to the standards of URMs, when you should really just be holding yourself to the highest standards possible, race/gender/nationality/sexual orientation withstanding.

KoughDai aka "Da Princess"

Pretty mean (chill). Life is good.

 

[lmaozedong1]

Why is everyone being a **** to KoughDai? I mean, isn't he/she telling the truth? Don't worry about URM status to gain extra points, just earn your way into school.

 

[darkwalk]

I would like to earn my way into dental school, but at the same time, if I was an URM, you bet I would put that on my application. Who wouldn't do the same? I'm not URM, btw.

 

[alanan84]

Why is everyone being a **** to KoughDai? I mean, isn't he/she telling the truth? Don't worry about URM status to gain extra points, just earn your way into school.

Because anytime someone posts anything with the acronym "URM", inevitably, someone else with a chip on their shoulder has to bust out with assumptions and generalizations about how URMs haven't worked as hard or are not as good, or blah blah blah. It's getting old.

 

[lmaozedong1]

Because anytime someone posts anything with the acronym "URM", inevitably, someone else with a chip on their shoulder has to bust out with assumptions and generalizations about how URMs haven't worked as hard or are not as good, or blah blah blah. It's getting old.

Do they not get in w/ lower stats? And don't even say they don't b/c they do.

 

[alanan84]

Do they not get in w/ lower stats? And don't even say they don't b/c they do.

So if they get in with lower stats, that means they didn't work as hard as the other people right?

In a world where we all went to the exact same university, were born into the exact same family/situation, had the exact same opportunities, and there was no poverty at all, your argument makes perfect sense.

Since that is not the case, your argument is irrelevent, ignorant, and illogical.

Apart from that, take your own advice. Stop worrying about URMs "preferential treatment" and worry about yourself.

 

[dentaldawg32]

So if they get in with lower stats, that means they didn't work as hard as the other people right?

In a world where we all went to the exact same university, were born into the exact same family/situation, had the exact same opportunities, and there was no poverty at all, your argument makes perfect sense.

Since that is not the case, your argument is irrelevent, ignorant, and illogical.

Apart from that, take your own advice. Stop worrying about URMs "preferential treatment" and worry about yourself.

But, that's the thing. Many URM's have been given the exact same opportunities as non-URM's, yet they still receive the same advantages in the admissions process. This just undermines the entire purpose of the affirmative action system. What needs to be done is a complete reform of affirmative action based on SOCIOECONOMIC factors, rather than racial ones, so that only those who truly need the benefits receive them, regardless of race.

Why should poor African American Person A be given a leg up when poor White Person B is disregarded? Because Affirmative Action isn't about helping those who truly need it - the poor - but rather aims to establish and maintain diversity in higher education. More diversity = More applicants = More Money.

 

[UltimateHombre]

Do they not get in w/ lower stats? And don't even say they don't b/c they do.

Nobody is contesting this... we are just simply saying that to categorize all URM's as not working as hard or getting a free ride is wrong.

Sure being a URM helps in the admission process, however nobody is going to be getting in with a 2.7 and a 16 dat. They still need to work hard in college and pull decent grades.

Further more, what i frankly have a problem with is when the OP is just asking for advice in this supposedly "friendly/helpful" forum and people make assumptive and rude remarks. Nobody in this forum has any idea what the OP has been through or how hard they have worked in their life.

When somebody says... "URM's have it so easy, the path is paved for them, they have no work ethic, they just take advantage of the system"... all i hear is "blah blah blah, i am ignorant, i am bitter toward the system, i feel sorry for myself, i am egocentric and judgmental."

Just answer the damn question in a helpful way... ranting and raving about a personal opinion accomplishes nothing.

 

[alanan84]

But, that's the thing. Many URM's have been given the exact same opportunities as non-URM's, yet they still receive the same advantages in the admissions process. This just undermines the entire purpose of the affirmative action system. What needs to be done is a complete reform of affirmative action based on SOCIOECONOMIC factors, rather than racial ones, so that only those who truly need the benefits receive them, regardless of race.

Why should poor African American Person A be given a leg up when poor White Person B is disregarded? Because Affirmative Action isn't about helping those who truly need it - the poor - but rather aims to establish and maintain diversity in higher education. More diversity = More applicants = More Money.

It's not about money, it's about filling a need for people to practice dentistry in areas where there's a shortage. Something tells me that when you or I graduate, we're not going to be running for the border to set up our practice.

I'm just getting tired of the blatant assumptions. I don't doubt that some take advantage of the system. But I generally don't think that's the case and I think most adcoms can see past that. Anyone who gets into dental school is deserving of his/her spot in my book.

 

[dentaldawg32]

It's not about money, it's about filling a need for people to practice dentistry in areas where there's a shortage. Something tells me that when you or I graduate, we're not going to be running for the border to set up our practice.

Affirmative Action is still largely based on race, not socioeconomic factors. Regardless, I am mostly referring to the college level, in which diversity is the main motivation of affirmative action, and is used as a means to attract more applicants and increase the school's ranking.

Not sure why you deleted your previous post.

 

[dentaldawg32]

I'm just getting tired of the blatant assumptions. I don't doubt that some take advantage of the system. But I generally don't think that's the case and I think most adcoms can see past that. Anyone who gets into dental school is deserving of his/her spot in my book.

I don't disagree with you on that at all. But to say that the affirmative action system is not without some SERIOUS flaws is just plain naive (not saying you directly said this). Obviously, there need to be some changes so that the people who really need help, regardless of race, can receive it.

 

[alanan84]

I don't disagree with you on that at all. But to say that the affirmative action system is not without some SERIOUS flaws is just plain naive (not saying you directly said this). Obviously, there need to be some changes so that the people who really need help, regardless of race, can receive it.

Affirmative action is very flawed. But like you said, it's different from the URM system that dental schools use.

I edited my previous post because it wasn't the direction I wanted to go. But it did show that adcoms look at a lot of factors that do not have anything to do with race.

 

[dentaldawg32]

Affirmative action is very flawed. But like you said, it's different from the URM system that dental schools use.

I edited my previous post because it wasn't the direction I wanted to go. But it did show that adcoms look at a lot of factors that do not have anything to do with race.

How do you know that Affirmative Action is different in undergrad and dental schools? Just because they ask a few questions about your socioeconomic background doesn't mean that they aren't using race as the determining factor. They do this in undergrad, too, but race is still the largest component.

 

[alanan84]

Point is, KoughDai said

People work hard to earn exceptional grades, pay for their educations, and eventually pursue their passion... and all of that hard work is undermined by people who are content to merely exceed the averages of their peer group.

This is a common and redundant opinion on these boards that I believe to be extremely ignorant. URMs should certainly be concerned with being the most competitive applicant possible but more respect needs to be payed to a URMs unique circumstances, and more importantly, to the dental school's ability to select quality students.

If you feel slighted, work harder. That goes for URMs as well as non-URMs with a chip on their shoulder.

 

[alanan84]

How do you know that Affirmative Action is different in undergrad and dental schools? Just because they ask a few questions about your socioeconomic background doesn't mean that they aren't using race as the determining factor. They do this in undergrad, too, but race is still the largest component.

How do you know that they're basing their selections on race and not that those minorities with lower stats also happen to come from a low socioeconomic background?

 

[alanan84]

How do you know that Affirmative Action is different in undergrad and dental schools? Just because they ask a few questions about your socioeconomic background doesn't mean that they aren't using race as the determining factor. They do this in undergrad, too, but race is still the largest component.

The URM system is different in that it's primarily designed to benefit the population, not the applicant.

 

[dentaldawg32]

How do you know that they're basing their selections on race and not that those minorities with lower stats also happen to come from a low socioeconomic background?

That's the point; we don't know. All I know is that at the undergraduate level, affirmative action is based largely on race. I can only assume that graduate schools operate in the same manner, albeit perhaps to a lesser extent. There is no doubt, though, that race plays a role; to argue otherwise is dumb.

I, personally, do not feel slighted by the affirmative action system and I believe it serves a purpose.

 

[adrift1984]

So if they get in with lower stats, that means they didn't work as hard as the other people right?

In a world where we all went to the exact same university, were born into the exact same family/situation, had the exact same opportunities, and there was no poverty at all, your argument makes perfect sense.

Since that is not the case, your argument is irrelevent, ignorant, and illogical.

Apart from that, take your own advice. Stop worrying about URMs "preferential treatment" and worry about yourself.

I detest these threads but what makes me cringe even more is the assumption that we should all hold hands and make everything in the world "fair". Not to attack you personally but this bleeding heart liberal ideology is what leads to mediocrity for all, rather than a system that rewards hard work and results.

It may be a nice thought and look fine on paper, but implementing these models in reality has proved their shortcomings. Charity, scholarships and private organizations are where support for the needy belong not in government/political programs.

I know I'm off on a tangent but too many "good intentions" lead to poor results.

 

[KoughDai]

I detest these threads but what makes me cringe even more is the assumption that we should all hold hands and make everything in the world "fair". Not to attack you personally but this bleeding heart liberal ideology is what leads to mediocrity for all, rather than a system that rewards hard work and results.

It may be a nice thought and look fine on paper, but implementing these models in reality has proved their shortcomings. Charity, scholarships and private organizations are where support for the needy belong not in government/political programs.

I know I'm off on a tangent but too many "good intentions" lead to poor results.

My post was not to disparage URM's, it was merely to ask the fundamental question: Why be concerned with what other URM's are doing? Why not just try to do your absolute best regardless of the situation.

FYI I am a URM, but the discussion of socioeconomic factors (vs. race) is very pertinent. I grew up in a poor area as a minority, and I assure you that the white population at my school in Florida (we're talking High School here) was almost assuredly much less wealthy than almost any traditional "URM" candidate who grew up in, say, New England. The system, as it is set up, grants an easier chance of admission to a wealthy URM than it does an extremely poor white man/woman. Isn't that the exact opposite of the reason for which URM status was established?

 

[alanan84]

I detest these threads but what makes me cringe even more is the assumption that we should all hold hands and make everything in the world "fair". Not to attack you personally but this bleeding heart liberal ideology is what leads to mediocrity for all, rather than a system that rewards hard work and results.

It may be a nice thought and look fine on paper, but implementing these models in reality has proved their shortcomings. Charity, scholarships and private organizations are where support for the needy belong not in government/political programs.

I know I'm off on a tangent but too many "good intentions" lead to poor results.

In a URM vs. non-URM debate on SDN, the one trying to make everything "fair" is not the URM.

Bleeding heart liberal ideology? What are you talking about? I've gotten into multiple social/political discussions on these very forums and I can assure you that the person with the liberal agenda was not me. Lol.

 

[alanan84]

The system, as it is set up, grants an easier chance of admission to a wealthy URM than it does an extremely poor white man/woman. Isn't that the exact opposite of the reason for which URM status was established?

No.

The system was established to get dentists into underserved areas.
From this site: http://www.jdentaled.org/cgi/content/full/68/10/1112

Recent reports continue to produce evidence supporting the need for the American Dental Education Association (ADEA) to continue its programmatic efforts to increase underrepresented minorities in the dental profession. Solomon et al.1 have, for example, documented the practice characteristics of black dentists in the state of Texas. This report found that black dentists treat a higher percentage of black patients and a higher percentage of economically disadvantaged patients. In addition, ADEA Senior Survey data for 20022 reported that black/African American students planned practice locations where the major portion of patients will be from inner-city or underserved populations in a higher percentage than that of white students: the percentage for black/African American students was 68.7 percent, while that of white students was 20 percent.

And...

ADEA’s long-held position is that, without minority practitioners, access to care will be limited or absent in minority communities throughout the nation.4 The dental practice data from both the ADA and ADEA support this position. In fact, the ADA Survey Report 20005 documented the practice characteristics of U.S. dentists: black patients are the only racial/ethnic group that are seen primarily by black dentists

Is the system perfect? No. But it is increasing the number of dentists in underserved areas.

 

[JasenClaisen]

Geez....

I never meant for this to be a flame war about race.

I just wanted to know which Hispanic nationalities qualified as URMs so I could inform my friends.

By the way, I think whites and Asians overreact to the URM thing. The way I see it, if you're white or Asian and good enough to get into dental school, affirmative action will help you out. Me and most of my Hispanic and Black friends are planning on serving the demographic we came from. This means fewer dentists competing with you in your white suburbs.

Now... could someone please tell me which Hispanic countries fall under the URM category?

 

[lmaozedong1]

Geez....

I never meant for this to be a flame war about race.

I just wanted to know which Hispanic nationalities qualified as URMs so I could inform my friends.

By the way, I think whites and Asians overreact to the URM thing. The way I see it, if you're white or Asian and good enough to get into dental school, affirmative action will help you out. Me and most of my Hispanic and Black friends are planning on serving the demographic we came from. This means fewer dentists competing with you in your white suburbs.

But that's just it. Why do we have to be "good enough" and you don't? I'm not saying that NO Hispanic/black applicants aren't 4.0 students or 22AA students, but the vast majority that get into Dental school have lower stats, whereas the whites/asians have to essentially pull higher scores in order to be accepted. Dude, you're getting extra help and it's unfair...plain and simple. And if you don't like people getting pissed off about it, then they should only accept people w/ the highest stats.

 

[lmaozedong1]

In a URM vs. non-URM debate on SDN, the one trying to make everything "fair" is not the URM.

Bleeding heart liberal ideology? What are you talking about? I've gotten into multiple social/political discussions on these very forums and I can assure you that the person with the liberal agenda was not me. Lol.

LOL You are a HUGE bleeding heart liberal...anyone w/ eyes can see that.

 

[darkwalk]

In the end, that's how things are done. Fair or unfair doesn't matter. I'm sure people smarter, with broader vision than students here came up with this solution. It's not perfect, but that's how it is.

 

[alanan84]

LOL You are a HUGE bleeding heart liberal...anyone w/ eyes can see that.

Haha, I guess since you said it, it must be "plain and simple" and "a fact"

 

[JasenClaisen]

All of these URM debates are pointless. There's nothing students can do about the policy the profession has enacted. If you really want to do something, why don't you go to the media and complain about it to FOX or something. I'm sure adcoms would admire your initiative. 👍

Now could someone please answer my original question?

 

[darkwalk]

All of these URM debates are pointless. There's nothing students can do about the policy the profession has enacted. If you really want to do something, why don't you go to the media and complain about it to FOX or something. I'm sure adcoms would admire your initiative. 👍

Now could someone please answer my original question?

Since it doesn't matter, you and your friends should just apply and not worry too much about their URM status.

I can't help you. I didn't find any info on this.