noobie question: physician vs. surgeon?

[theonlytycrane]

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Would a surgeon still refer to themselves as a physician?

What if you go into anesthesiology? Would you refer to yourself as a physician as well as an anesthesiologist?

 

[HomeSkool]

Yes and yes. Additionally, self-respecting doctors refer to themselves as "physicians" and not "providers".

 

[nlax30]

All thumbs are fingers, not all fingers are thumbs.

 

[TypeADissection]

I like to go by the UK parlance of "mister." I also like to do my work in the "theatre."

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Yes and yes. Additionally, self-respecting doctors refer to themselves as "physicians" and not "providers".

Says the guy whose job it is to provide drugs....

 

[HomeSkool]

Says the guy whose job it is to provide drugs....

Does your comment have a purpose beyond rudeness? All physicians provide healthcare. That doesn't mean we identify ourselves by the descriptor mid-levels use to muddy the waters and confuse patients.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Does your comment have a purpose beyond rudeness? All physicians provide healthcare. That doesn't mean we identify ourselves by the descriptor mid-levels use to muddy the waters and confuse patients.

it wasn't rudeness, it was meant to be sarcasm. You are an anesthesiologist correct?

 

[theonlytycrane]

Yes and yes. Additionally, self-respecting doctors refer to themselves as "physicians" and not "providers".

I've actually heard "provider" used a lot in the hospitals (now I'll be more aware of who is using that term).

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I've actually heard "provider" used a lot in the hospitals (now I'll be more aware of who is using that term).

It's kind like how people who work at Disney aren't employees, their cast members. Calling physicians providers is supposed to create an anti-paternalistic nature which is why many hospitals have you say it.

 

[HomeSkool]

it wasn't rudeness, it was meant to be sarcasm. You are an anesthesiologist correct?

Yes, I am.

Throughout the medical world (and not just in perioperative medicine), APRNs and other mid-level providers are pushing for increasing autonomy. Increasingly, they're using the descriptor "provider" as an attempt to gain physician-like status, particularly in the eyes of patients to whom anyone in a white coat is a doctor. Many of them are calling for physicians to buy into the "flat" hierarchy model of healthcare. That's antithetical to the role of physicians as team leaders. Calling ourselves "physicians" instead of "providers" isn't paternalistic, it's accepting and owning the role and responsibility for which we've volunteered and trained.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Yes, I am.

Throughout the medical world (and not just in perioperative medicine), APRNs and other mid-level providers are pushing for increasing autonomy. Increasingly, they're using the descriptor "provider" as an attempt to gain physician-like status, particularly in the eyes of patients to whom anyone in a white coat is a doctor. Many of them are calling for physicians to buy into the "flat" hierarchy model of healthcare. That's antithetical to the role of physicians as team leaders. Calling ourselves "physicians" instead of "providers" isn't paternalistic, it's accepting and owning the role and responsibility for which we've volunteered and trained.

OK. cool. I was literally just trying to be light-hearted. If I had know this was going to be something much bigger I wouldn't have said it. FWIW, the community health center I've been in all year has a policy for all physicians to call themselves providers because it is in fact their way to diminish the perceived paternalistic doctor-patient relationship, esp. dealing with the patient population we have. If there is some larger systemic issue going on, I was unaware of it. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[HomeSkool]

OK. cool. I was literally just trying to be light-hearted. If I had know this was going to be something much bigger I wouldn't have said it. FWIW, the community health center I've been in all year has a policy for all physicians to call themselves providers because it is in fact their way to diminish the perceived paternalistic doctor-patient relationship, esp. dealing with the patient population we have. If there is some larger systemic issue going on, I was unaware of it. Thanks for the heads-up.

Gotcha. Humor/jest sometimes doesn't come across the electrons well. My apologies for misunderstanding you.

It is a pretty big systemic issue right now, and some health systems have landed on either side. My hospital has introduced large-letter descriptors on our ID badges that clarify our roles (e.g. physician, nurse anesthetist, technician, etc.).

Sent from my Pixel 2 using SDN mobile

 

[theonlytycrane]

I've seen some crazy oversized ones like this

 

[MSTP18]

Had one attending that liked to introduce me/have me introduce myself to patients as "Dr. [MSTP18], working with Dr. [Attending] today." While technically correct (PhD), I always thought it wasn't the best idea.

 

[mimelim]

I like to go by the UK parlance of "mister." I also like to do my work in the "theatre."

Every single op note I dictate/write starts with, "After obtaining informed consent from the patient, including a thorough explanation of the risks and benefits of the procedure, the patient was brought to the operating theatre." And no, until medicare stops paying based on my op notes with my choice of vocabulary I will continue to do so.

 

[Crayola227]

I agree there are many ways that "provider" is undermining the important position that physicians hold in the healthcare team relative to other valued team members.

Sadly, I find myself using it, because it's gotten too confusing who is providing the care.

"So, take this prescription to your doctor..."
"I don't have a doctor."
"How about a primary care provider?"
*makes a face*
"A PCP?"
*makes a face*
"A physician's assistant?"
*makes a face*
"A nurse practitioner?"
*makes a face*
"NP? PA? Is there someone you see for regularly, like if you get a cold or something?"
"I never go to the doctor."
"But if you HAD to....Like, who did your insurance assign? Who referred you here?"
*makes a face*
*I make a face*
"I think my doctor is a PA. One of those."
"JFC, whoever usually refills these meds!"

I'll even be talking to student who should know better, and say "You could talk to your psychiatrist about this." "I don't have a psychiatrist, I see a counselor." "Well, your doctor then." "I don't have a doctor, I have an NP."

FFS. Please just get the frak out of my face and go see whatever quack you see.

Frak it. Next time I'm just going to say, provider.

 

[MediCane2006]

Every single op note I dictate/write starts with, "After obtaining informed consent from the patient, including a thorough explanation of the risks and benefits of the procedure, the patient was brought to the operating theatre." And no, until medicare stops paying based on my op notes with my choice of vocabulary I will continue to do so.

Haha glad I’m not the only one

 

[deleted480308]

I agree there are many ways that "provider" is undermining the important position that physicians hold in the healthcare team relative to other valued team members.

Sadly, I find myself using it, because it's gotten too confusing who is providing the care.

"So, take this prescription to your doctor..."
"I don't have a doctor."
"How about a primary care provider?"
*makes a face*
"A PCP?"
*makes a face*
"A physician's assistant?"
*makes a face*
"A nurse practitioner?"
*makes a face*
"NP? PA? Is there someone you see for regularly, like if you get a cold or something?"
"I never go to the doctor."
"But if you HAD to....Like, who did your insurance assign? Who referred you here?"
*makes a face*
*I make a face*
"I think my doctor is a PA. One of those."
"JFC, whoever usually refills these meds!"

I'll even be talking to student who should know better, and say "You could talk to your psychiatrist about this." "I don't have a psychiatrist, I see a counselor." "Well, your doctor then." "I don't have a doctor, I have an NP."

FFS. Please just get the frak out of my face and go see whatever quack you see.

Frak it. Next time I'm just going to say, provider.

My wife still calls almost anyone she sees in a medical environment, “doctor”. Military tends to do the same.

Drives me nuts

 

[CyrilFiggis]

 

[Snoopy2006]

Jesus. A physician calling themselves a physician is paternalistic now? What is wrong with people?

I'll try to be equally offended by my college educators calling themselves professors (condescending), the local safety patrol calling themselves police officers (scary!), and bloggers calling themselves journalists (this one might be OK).

Common sense is dying.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Military tends to do the same.

Yeah, although at least in the Navy, anyone who isn't a real doctor is usually "doc" or "baby doc." I got called doc a lot at my last command because we only have a few enlisted folks to provide primary care. Whenever they would talk about an actual physician though, it was always "doctor" lol. Such weird subtleties people have.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Jesus.

The shoehorning of Christianity into this post offends me.

 

[Neopolymath]

Jesus. A physician calling themselves a physician is paternalistic now? What is wrong with people?

I'll try to be equally offended by my college educators calling themselves professors (condescending), the local safety patrol calling themselves police officers (scary!), and bloggers calling themselves journalists (this one might be OK).

Common sense is dying.

Hey, man! You crossed the line. Bloggers are absolutely not journalists. That would require some critical thought and investigation.

 

[MSTP18]

Jesus. A physician calling themselves a physician is paternalistic now? What is wrong with people?

I'll try to be equally offended by my college educators calling themselves professors (condescending), the local safety patrol calling themselves police officers (scary!), and bloggers calling themselves journalists (this one might be OK).

Common sense is dying.

"Adjunct Professor X" just doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

 

[Oso]

I've seen some crazy oversized ones like this

View attachment 228588

That's nothing.

I want one like this

 

[Mr.Monster]

Additionally, self-respecting doctors refer to themselves as "physicians" and not "providers".

I've heard this before, yet I have never understood it. Can you please explain why physicians should not/do not refer to themselves as providers?

 

[Crayola227]

I've heard this before, yet I have never understood it. Can you please explain why physicians should not/do not refer to themselves as providers?

because then we start to seem interchangeable with others who do not have the same quality of education we have had, this undermines our rightful position as head of the healthcare team, based on the fact we have the best knowledge base and training for making those sorts of leadership decisions

 

[Mr.Monster]

because then we start to seem interchangeable with others who do not have the same quality of education we have had, this undermines our rightful position as head of the healthcare team, based on the fact we have the best knowledge base and training for making those sorts of leadership decisions

Thanks for clearing that up for me