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Northstar wrongful termination suit

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by hypnosMD, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. hypnosMD


    Aug 14, 2016
    Rumor has it the Louisville Kentucky location is still a mess. Tensions existed between the lead CRNA and lead MD (since their model encourages MD's vs CRNA's with intentional role ambiguity). The doc kept getting written up and it was widely believed that the CRNA was behind it. He threatened to sue due to religious discrimination and shortly thereafter the CRNA was allegedly let go due to some "billing improprieties". She is now filing a wrongful termination suit and her attorney believes it could exceed 7 figures.
    Anybody finishing residency take note of the type of work environment these AMC's can create. This isn't medicine. These environments aren't about teamwork or patient care; they are about self preservation, ploys, and deception.
    dmk5n likes this.
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  3. ghastly75

    ghastly75 ASA Member 10+ Year Member

    Jul 7, 2007
    North America
    sounds like my shop...CRNAS writing up docs who don't let them do what they want. Makes for a very toxic work environment. However, it masquerades as non-elitism team based anesthesia. Good grief.
    pencilcase likes this.
  4. dchz

    dchz Avoiding the Dunning-Kruger Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Sep 25, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  5. aneftp

    aneftp 7+ Year Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    Chances of winning a lawsuit at slim.

    These AMC usually have their ducks all lined up when they fire for "cause". I'm talking months and months of data. If they didn't have data. They usually would just pay the 30-90 days for the person not to show up to work and be done with it.

    I've known 2 people (one crna and one md) let go for "cause" the past 5 years including one very recently from one of the big 3 AMCs. Trust me. Lots of data. They basically present a spread sheet. (3 airway issues, 6 times late to work, multiple poor documentation, 2 (super minor patient complaints like busted lip from 400 pound woman during intubation). It's this mountain of data they collect to make it easier to fire you for cause.

    Bottom line. If it's run by big brother. Big brother is collecting data to use against you.
    WheezyBaby likes this.
  6. jthedestroyr

    jthedestroyr ASA Member 5+ Year Member

    Jan 23, 2013
    our childrens hospital is like that, except nurses are encouraged to try to write up any physician for the smallest issue.

    For example, forgot to date/initial/time the tegaderm for the difficult IV you just placed, a nurse will report you. They will even use a timer for when chloraprep starts to dry (cant start until the nurses timer hits 3min from the time she has stopped), including in an emergency case otherwise surgeons get written up.
    pencilcase and anbuitachi like this.
  7. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member Physician 10+ Year Member

    May 24, 2006
    somewhere always warm
    All the above sounds toxic. Although now that I am back in academics, it CANNOT get anymore toxic than that. Talk about a bunch of entitled, lazy nurses and techs who want to do the bare minimum and complain about every stupid thing. "She's mean, she's rude" because I asked their lazy asses to assist me in putting on monitors before induction and looked incredulously at them when they told me to go help push a stretcher. A stretcher, not a bed people.

    Counting down the days.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  8. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member 7+ Year Member

    Oct 26, 2008
    Why would anyone work there...
    pencilcase likes this.
  9. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Dec 6, 2006
    Take a position based on misinformation. Few options. Tightening job market. Inertia. Desire to stay in a particular area. A noncompete.... The usual.
    dmk5n likes this.
  10. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    All valid points.

    Though I confess, as someone who lives where I'm told to live and who'd go to prison if I just walked away from my job ... the stuff some people put up with for the sake of inertia and geographic preference just blows my mind.
  11. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

    Jul 28, 2011
    Medicine in general comprises the biggest group of babies in the world. When I have a chance to get out, I'm gone. The worst part of my job has always been the toxic people who choose medicine. I've also made many lifelong friends, but the vast majority are the pettinest ppl you'll ever encounter.
  12. dannyboy1

    dannyboy1 7+ Year Member

    Aug 11, 2008
    Interesting. were they given the opportunity to "resign" and did not go quietly? was the practice looking to downsize or were these people problematic ? Usually would think people would get the opportunity to leave quietly, easier on everyone.
  13. hypnosMD


    Aug 14, 2016
    I would be quite interested in why. I have many strong arguments for why this should be visible to all providers, the public, hospitals/administrators, and even AMC's.
    Sweeping everything under the rug is why anesthesia as a specialty now finds itself fighting for relevance.
    JeffGarrett likes this.
  14. narcusprince

    narcusprince Rough Rider 10+ Year Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    The gamma quadrant
    The culture of writing physicians up in the military exists too. The military in my experience is by far the most toxic environment. I work both civilian(moonlighting) and military positions I have never been written up in civilian land. The military finds so many different ways through the so called non-punitive PSR system to scold their physicians. As a physician you should be given the right to define systems in patient care. The turnover and junior techs and nurses make the job very difficult at times. The .mil for me is the definition of toxic. Nurses have been given senior leadership positions and dictate how the Anesthesia department staffs the operating rooms. A friend once told me be wary of working in a place where your boss makes less money then you. The civilian world in my experience is focused on meeting the bottom line. Get patients into the operating room, keep them alive and not moving, get them to PACU, rinse repeat with a smile on your face and you get asked back. You can smile, be efficient, take good care of your patients, and that is not good enough in the .mil.
    aneftp likes this.
  15. jthedestroyr

    jthedestroyr ASA Member 5+ Year Member

    Jan 23, 2013
    interesting, have heard the same and seen it firsr hand as we rotate through the VA. have heard nurse/staff have 6month probation period, while physicians its at 2 years. also heard nurses them people on probation to keep their month shut for 6months then they can do/say whatever they want.

    Id avoid .mil like the plague, although if you want a cush job, its the easiest anesthesia job ive ever seen, but you will be eating crow all day until retirement.
  16. aneftp

    aneftp 7+ Year Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    They "resigned" obviously under pressure.

    But in exchange they got letters they left on good terms. This happens a lot.

    If you ever look at physician searches where it asks if you have ever been asked to resigned pending "x" circumstance. Part of many termination conditions the employer will just promise to look the other way, not report the employee to the medical boards.

    So this dude just turned in his badge in May of this year. They were gonna to fire him if he didn't resign. So he turned in badge on Sunday. At least they paid hi for his two weeks vacation.
  17. MirrorTodd

    MirrorTodd It's a gas. Physician 10+ Year Member

    Apr 22, 2006
    And making 100-200k less than your civilian counterparts.
  18. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Oct 17, 2007
    the opposite pole
    Does that include the VA?
  19. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

    Jan 13, 2006
    Clipboard nazis gone wild.
  20. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 10+ Year Member

    Aug 10, 2007
    Closer to Mexico
    Now there's a video I would NOT pay to see.
    dchz likes this.
  21. leaverus

    leaverus New Member 10+ Year Member

    Jan 23, 2004
    Nowhere in particular
    yeah, like any crna is worth 7 figures. what does it mean to exceed 7 figures? then it's simply 8 figures isn't it?
  22. woopedazz

    woopedazz 2+ Year Member

    Feb 8, 2015
    Then lurkers like me can't read it.
  23. GA8314

    GA8314 Regaining my sanity 2+ Year Member

    Jun 3, 2014
    A colleague of mine who is an employee of our group worked for Northstar for 10 years before joining us. She was terminated via an email letter. I am not kidding.
  24. hypnosMD


    Aug 14, 2016
    Northstar settled very quickly and very quietly with the CRNA. Part of the settlement is a strict non-disclosure. The amounts are anyone's guess. Again, they operate in secrecy.
  25. AdmiralChz

    AdmiralChz ASA Member 7+ Year Member

    Sep 8, 2008
    Other than total smoke and rumors as with previous posts, have any evidence?

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