Northstar wrongful termination suit

[hypnosMD]

Rumor has it the Louisville Kentucky location is still a mess. Tensions existed between the lead CRNA and lead MD (since their model encourages MD's vs CRNA's with intentional role ambiguity). The doc kept getting written up and it was widely believed that the CRNA was behind it. He threatened to sue due to religious discrimination and shortly thereafter the CRNA was allegedly let go due to some "billing improprieties". She is now filing a wrongful termination suit and her attorney believes it could exceed 7 figures.
Anybody finishing residency take note of the type of work environment these AMC's can create. This isn't medicine. These environments aren't about teamwork or patient care; they are about self preservation, ploys, and deception.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ghastly75]

Rumor has it the Louisville Kentucky location is still a mess. Tensions existed between the lead CRNA and lead MD (since their model encourages MD's vs CRNA's with intentional role ambiguity). The doc kept getting written up and it was widely believed that the CRNA was behind it. He threatened to sue due to religious discrimination and shortly thereafter the CRNA was allegedly let go due to some "billing improprieties". She is now filing a wrongful termination suit and her attorney believes it could exceed 7 figures.
Anybody finishing residency take note of the type of work environment these AMC's can create. This isn't medicine. These environments aren't about teamwork or patient care; they are about self preservation, ploys, and deception.

sounds like my shop...CRNAS writing up docs who don't let them do what they want. Makes for a very toxic work environment. However, it masquerades as non-elitism team based anesthesia. Good grief.

 

[dchz]

I motion to move this thread to the private forum.

@Arch Guillotti

 

[aneftp]

Chances of winning a lawsuit at slim.

These AMC usually have their ducks all lined up when they fire for "cause". I'm talking months and months of data. If they didn't have data. They usually would just pay the 30-90 days for the person not to show up to work and be done with it.

I've known 2 people (one crna and one md) let go for "cause" the past 5 years including one very recently from one of the big 3 AMCs. Trust me. Lots of data. They basically present a spread sheet. (3 airway issues, 6 times late to work, multiple poor documentation, 2 (super minor patient complaints like busted lip from 400 pound woman during intubation). It's this mountain of data they collect to make it easier to fire you for cause.

Bottom line. If it's run by big brother. Big brother is collecting data to use against you.

 

[jthedestroyr]

our childrens hospital is like that, except nurses are encouraged to try to write up any physician for the smallest issue.

For example, forgot to date/initial/time the tegaderm for the difficult IV you just placed, a nurse will report you. They will even use a timer for when chloraprep starts to dry (cant start until the nurses timer hits 3min from the time she has stopped), including in an emergency case otherwise surgeons get written up.

 

[chocomorsel]

All the above sounds toxic. Although now that I am back in academics, it CANNOT get anymore toxic than that. Talk about a bunch of entitled, lazy nurses and techs who want to do the bare minimum and complain about every stupid thing. "She's mean, she's rude" because I asked their lazy asses to assist me in putting on monitors before induction and looked incredulously at them when they told me to go help push a stretcher. A stretcher, not a bed people.

Counting down the days.

 

[anbuitachi]

our childrens hospital is like that, except nurses are encouraged to try to write up any physician for the smallest issue.

For example, forgot to date/initial/time the tegaderm for the difficult IV you just placed, a nurse will report you. They will even use a timer for when chloraprep starts to dry (cant start until the nurses timer hits 3min from the time she has stopped), including in an emergency case otherwise surgeons get written up.

Why would anyone work there...

 

[deleted126335]

Why would anyone work there...

Take a position based on misinformation. Few options. Tightening job market. Inertia. Desire to stay in a particular area. A noncompete.... The usual.

 

[pgg]

Take a position based on misinformation. Few options. Tightening job market. Inertia. Desire to stay in a particular area. A noncompete.... The usual.

All valid points.

Though I confess, as someone who lives where I'm told to live and who'd go to prison if I just walked away from my job ... the stuff some people put up with for the sake of inertia and geographic preference just blows my mind.

 

[acidbase1]

Medicine in general comprises the biggest group of babies in the world. When I have a chance to get out, I'm gone. The worst part of my job has always been the toxic people who choose medicine. I've also made many lifelong friends, but the vast majority are the pettinest ppl you'll ever encounter.

 

[dannyboy1]

Chances of winning a lawsuit at slim.

These AMC usually have their ducks all lined up when they fire for "cause". I'm talking months and months of data. If they didn't have data. They usually would just pay the 30-90 days for the person not to show up to work and be done with it.

I've known 2 people (one crna and one md) let go for "cause" the past 5 years including one very recently from one of the big 3 AMCs. Trust me. Lots of data. They basically present a spread sheet. (3 airway issues, 6 times late to work, multiple poor documentation, 2 (super minor patient complaints like busted lip from 400 pound woman during intubation). It's this mountain of data they collect to make it easier to fire you for cause.

Bottom line. If it's run by big brother. Big brother is collecting data to use against you.

Interesting. were they given the opportunity to "resign" and did not go quietly? was the practice looking to downsize or were these people problematic ? Usually would think people would get the opportunity to leave quietly, easier on everyone.

 

[hypnosMD]

I motion to move this thread to the private forum.

@Arch Guillotti

I would be quite interested in why. I have many strong arguments for why this should be visible to all providers, the public, hospitals/administrators, and even AMC's.
Sweeping everything under the rug is why anesthesia as a specialty now finds itself fighting for relevance.

 

[narcusprince]

The culture of writing physicians up in the military exists too. The military in my experience is by far the most toxic environment. I work both civilian(moonlighting) and military positions I have never been written up in civilian land. The military finds so many different ways through the so called non-punitive PSR system to scold their physicians. As a physician you should be given the right to define systems in patient care. The turnover and junior techs and nurses make the job very difficult at times. The .mil for me is the definition of toxic. Nurses have been given senior leadership positions and dictate how the Anesthesia department staffs the operating rooms. A friend once told me be wary of working in a place where your boss makes less money then you. The civilian world in my experience is focused on meeting the bottom line. Get patients into the operating room, keep them alive and not moving, get them to PACU, rinse repeat with a smile on your face and you get asked back. You can smile, be efficient, take good care of your patients, and that is not good enough in the .mil.

 

[jthedestroyr]

The culture of writing physicians up in the military exists too. The military in my experience is by far the most toxic environment. I work both civilian(moonlighting) and military positions I have never been written up in civilian land. The military finds so many different ways through the so called non-punitive PSR system to scold their physicians. As a physician you should be given the right to define systems in patient care. The turnover and junior techs and nurses make the job very difficult at times. The .mil for me is the definition of toxic. Nurses have been given senior leadership positions and dictate how the Anesthesia department staffs the operating rooms. A friend once told me be wary of working in a place where your boss makes less money then you. The civilian world in my experience is focused on meeting the bottom line. Get patients into the operating room, keep them alive and not moving, get them to PACU, rinse repeat with a smile on your face and you get asked back. You can smile, be efficient, take good care of your patients, and that is not good enough in the .mil.

interesting, have heard the same and seen it firsr hand as we rotate through the VA. have heard nurse/staff have 6month probation period, while physicians its at 2 years. also heard nurses them people on probation to keep their month shut for 6months then they can do/say whatever they want.

Id avoid .mil like the plague, although if you want a cush job, its the easiest anesthesia job ive ever seen, but you will be eating crow all day until retirement.

 

[aneftp]

Interesting. were they given the opportunity to "resign" and did not go quietly? was the practice looking to downsize or were these people problematic ? Usually would think people would get the opportunity to leave quietly, easier on everyone.

They "resigned" obviously under pressure.

But in exchange they got letters they left on good terms. This happens a lot.

If you ever look at physician searches where it asks if you have ever been asked to resigned pending "x" circumstance. Part of many termination conditions the employer will just promise to look the other way, not report the employee to the medical boards.

So this dude just turned in his badge in May of this year. They were gonna to fire him if he didn't resign. So he turned in badge on Sunday. At least they paid hi for his two weeks vacation.

 

[MirrorTodd]

interesting, have heard the same and seen it firsr hand as we rotate through the VA. have heard nurse/staff have 6month probation period, while physicians its at 2 years. also heard nurses them people on probation to keep their month shut for 6months then they can do/say whatever they want.

Id avoid .mil like the plague, although if you want a cush job, its the easiest anesthesia job ive ever seen, but you will be eating crow all day until retirement.

And making 100-200k less than your civilian counterparts.

 

[deleted171991]

The culture of writing physicians up in the military exists too. The military in my experience is by far the most toxic environment. I work both civilian(moonlighting) and military positions I have never been written up in civilian land. The military finds so many different ways through the so called non-punitive PSR system to scold their physicians. As a physician you should be given the right to define systems in patient care. The turnover and junior techs and nurses make the job very difficult at times. The .mil for me is the definition of toxic. Nurses have been given senior leadership positions and dictate how the Anesthesia department staffs the operating rooms. A friend once told me be wary of working in a place where your boss makes less money then you. The civilian world in my experience is focused on meeting the bottom line. Get patients into the operating room, keep them alive and not moving, get them to PACU, rinse repeat with a smile on your face and you get asked back. You can smile, be efficient, take good care of your patients, and that is not good enough in the .mil.

Does that include the VA?

 

[nimbus]

Clipboard nazis gone wild.

 

[deleted162650]

Clipboard nazis gone wild.

Now there's a video I would NOT pay to see.

 

[leaverus]

Rumor has it the Louisville Kentucky location is still a mess. Tensions existed between the lead CRNA and lead MD (since their model encourages MD's vs CRNA's with intentional role ambiguity). The doc kept getting written up and it was widely believed that the CRNA was behind it. He threatened to sue due to religious discrimination and shortly thereafter the CRNA was allegedly let go due to some "billing improprieties". She is now filing a wrongful termination suit and her attorney believes it could exceed 7 figures.
Anybody finishing residency take note of the type of work environment these AMC's can create. This isn't medicine. These environments aren't about teamwork or patient care; they are about self preservation, ploys, and deception.

yeah, like any crna is worth 7 figures. what does it mean to exceed 7 figures? then it's simply 8 figures isn't it?

 

[woopedazz]

I motion to move this thread to the private forum.

@Arch Guillotti

Then lurkers like me can't read it.

 

[GA8314]

A colleague of mine who is an employee of our group worked for Northstar for 10 years before joining us. She was terminated via an email letter. I am not kidding.

 

[hypnosMD]

Northstar settled very quickly and very quietly with the CRNA. Part of the settlement is a strict non-disclosure. The amounts are anyone's guess. Again, they operate in secrecy.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Northstar settled very quickly and very quietly with the CRNA. Part of the settlement is a strict non-disclosure. The amounts are anyone's guess. Again, they operate in secrecy.

Other than total smoke and rumors as with previous posts, have any evidence?