Not doing good..

[fishmoon]

Hi,

I am a MS1 in a well known school in North America. My undergrad was in biology/physiology of human body and I aced those courses. Was at the top of my classes. I expected medical school to be the same level of difficulty or at least expand upon those physiological details. But I was wrong.

I am not doing too well in my classes. I am getting marks which hover around class average (in last test actually, I was well 5% below class avg of 80%). Most of the concepts are not new, at least the basic physiology. But I find myself not being tested on physiologic principles as I was in undergrad. Rather, I am given clinical scenarios (a patient comes in with dyspnea and rest of history is given and I am asked what tests should I do etc), how rest of my life will be like, and I am finding myself to suck at them. Dont know why .....

I am extremely depressed that I am not at the top of my class right now. People who had no background in physiology whatsoever are doing better than me in class ... I dont know what is holding me back. I am spending at least 5-6 hours of solid study every single day after class, no Friday's off. Yet I still am falling behind ...

I have been told by some close friends in upper years that these marks dont matter, rather I should be in the hospitals from right now, developing my clinical acumen so when 3rd year comes around Id be able to impress my preceptors more than the rest of my bookworm class. They told me that of course it will come at expense of not getting high marks in MS1 and MS2 but its worth it.

What do you senior people have to say about this?

Regards

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[UAAWolf]

Hi,

I am a MS1 in a well known school in North America. My undergrad was in biology/physiology of human body and I aced those courses. Was at the top of my classes. I expected medical school to be the same level of difficulty or at least expand upon those physiological details. But I was wrong.

I am not doing too well in my classes. I am getting marks which hover around class average (in last test actually, I was well 5% below class avg of 80%). Most of the concepts are not new, at least the basic physiology. But I find myself not being tested on physiologic principles as I was in undergrad. Rather, I am given clinical scenarios (a patient comes in with dyspnea and rest of history is given and I am asked what tests should I do etc), how rest of my life will be like, and I am finding myself to suck at them. Dont know why .....

I am extremely depressed that I am not at the top of my class right now. People who had no background in physiology whatsoever are doing better than me in class ... I dont know what is holding me back. I am spending at least 5-6 hours of solid study every single day after class, no Friday's off. Yet I still am falling behind ...

I have been told by some close friends in upper years that these marks dont matter, rather I should be in the hospitals from right now, developing my clinical acumen so when 3rd year comes around Id be able to impress my preceptors more than the rest of my bookworm class. They told me that of course it will come at expense of not getting high marks in MS1 and MS2 but its worth it.

What do you senior people have to say about this?

Regards

Dude don't whine if you're getting class average...OMG you got 5% below class avg on 1 test...thats fine man. No one cares about preclinical grades. And I don't know where you go but the "average" step 1 at a lot of well known school is like 230+ in some cases...so calm down
EVERYONE in med school was a star in undergrad...the competition is much stiffer now.

Chill out....

 

[UAAWolf]

I am extremely depressed that I am not at the top of my class right now.

Lets say there are 200 people in your class. Only one can be top of the class.

With your logic 199/200 students would be depressed. Do you do fun stuff outside of med school? Hang out with friends? Grab a beer on the weekends? Work out/play sports/hobbies/anything?

If you're living a balanced fun life and at class average thats awesome.

Oh...and this thread deserves a bertstare

 

[fishmoon]

Dude don't whine if you're getting class average...OMG you got 5% below class avg on 1 test...thats fine man. No one cares about preclinical grades. And I don't know where you go but the "average" step 1 at a lot of well known school is like 230+ in some cases...so calm down
EVERYONE in med school was a star in undergrad...the competition is much stiffer now.

Chill out....

thanks for your kind words but keep in mind that its not like I have lots of tests to prove my knowledge. This semester (January to end of May), we will only have 3 major tests which are 2 midterms and one final. I would not have been so depressed if I had a midterm every other week and on one of those I got 5% below class average (as Id have gazillion others to bring my mark up).

 

[ACSurgeon]

Hi,

I am a MS1 in a well known school in North America. My undergrad was in biology/physiology of human body and I aced those courses. Was at the top of my classes. I expected medical school to be the same level of difficulty or at least expand upon those physiological details. But I was wrong.

I am not doing too well in my classes. I am getting marks which hover around class average (in last test actually, I was well 5% below class avg of 80%). Most of the concepts are not new, at least the basic physiology. But I find myself not being tested on physiologic principles as I was in undergrad. Rather, I am given clinical scenarios (a patient comes in with dyspnea and rest of history is given and I am asked what tests should I do etc), how rest of my life will be like, and I am finding myself to suck at them. Dont know why .....

I am extremely depressed that I am not at the top of my class right now. People who had no background in physiology whatsoever are doing better than me in class ... I dont know what is holding me back. I am spending at least 5-6 hours of solid study every single day after class, no Friday's off. Yet I still am falling behind ...

I have been told by some close friends in upper years that these marks dont matter, rather I should be in the hospitals from right now, developing my clinical acumen so when 3rd year comes around Id be able to impress my preceptors more than the rest of my bookworm class. They told me that of course it will come at expense of not getting high marks in MS1 and MS2 but its worth it.

What do you senior people have to say about this?

Regards

1) some people will be top of their class, most average, and some at the bottom. Be glad you're not in the last category.

2) Step 1 matters a ton more than preclinicals. Step 1 is mostly 2nd year material. Your job now: learn your ****.

3) As for what you can do to improve mentally AND academically:

a. Lower your expectations. Do your best, hope for the best, but do NOT expect or feel entitled to doing the best. Some students have a better eye for what's important when they are studying, and are able to integrate the material better. This brings me to the next point

b. When you are studying, make sure you're not missing the forest for the trees. Make sure you get the big picture, the mechanisms, etc and then try to learn the little details. Also, pause from time to time, and reflect upon what you are reading. Try to internalize that material.

c. Experiment a little with your learning style. See if you find a better way to do things.

d. Chill out. You're gonna look back at this and laugh.

e. Do NOT go to the hospital as an M1. You'll learn close to nothing. As an M2 you might learn some, but still, your time is better spent learning the material. Third year is where you integrate it, forget the little details from M1/M2 and start thinking like a clinician. Fourth year is when you forget everything you've learned in third year. Residency is when you do it all over again .

 

[bruinhd]

You're not at the top of the class. I'm sorry dude but this happens. Time to move on and enjoy the rest of your life. I know our parents told us we could be President of the United States someday, but at some point we learn to let go and get realistic with our capabilities.

Besides, there are people who are doing much worse than you. Did you know that some people don't even get into med school?

 

[tdjn]

thanks for your kind words but keep in mind that its not like I have lots of tests to prove my knowledge. This semester (January to end of May), we will only have 3 major tests which are 2 midterms and one final. I would not have been so depressed if I had a midterm every other week and on one of those I got 5% below class average (as Id have gazillion others to bring my mark up).

Below 5% on test averages? Only 3 tests per semester? Studying 5-6 hours after class every day? Boo hoo!

Seriously, suck it up and realize you may not be as special as you think you are. Everyone else in your class works just as hard as you do - Many may perform better than you, but some aren't even fortunate enough to pass their classes. Learn from your mistakes, strive to improve, and move on.

If you continue to badger over every single point in med school, you are going to have an absolutely miserable time over the next 4 years. Learn for the sake of learning and in hopes that this knowledge might be useful one day in your career and in hospitals. Not because you want to be one of those gunners who feel entitled to being in top of their class.

 

[fishmoon]

Below 5% on test averages? Only 3 tests per semester? Studying 5-6 hours after class every day? Boo hoo!

Seriously, suck it up and realize you may not be as special as you think you are. Everyone else in your class works just as hard as you do - Many may perform better than you, but some aren't even fortunate enough to pass their classes. Learn from your mistakes, strive to improve, and move on.

If you continue to badger over every single point in med school, you are going to have an absolutely miserable time over the next 4 years. Learn for the sake of learning and in hopes that this knowledge might be useful one day in your career and in hospitals. Not because you want to be one of those gunners who feel entitled to being in top of their class.

Thank you for kind words and suggestions. I do not feel entitled to be at the top indeed. But I find it unsatisfactory that I am putting in so much effort with very little outcome. I put in about same effort in undergrad (albeit with more fun, took up many hobbies but dont pursue them now as a medical student) and I shone through undergrad and I find myself fortunate for that. But it is just not working now.

And I find it very hard and saddening and depressing to accept this reality, I continue to feel that there must be some way out of this, while there might not be and I should accept it as you and others have suggested?

 

[weightyheart]

you have 2 options: the sooner you accept that you won't be in the top of your class, the less miserable you will be. or study harder.

source: personal experience

 

[mTOR]

you're not alone. selection for med school necessitates a high level of sustained academic engagement and proven performance. unsurprisingly, for a lot of us med students, we've done that for so long in our schooling (from K-12 to ugrad) it becomes a part of our identity. so it becomes rather unsettling when we don't perform at our accustomed level relative to our peers.

in the end, it's really not that serious.

As others suggested, step 1 is far more important. As far as studying technique, imagining how whatever you're learning may be presented in a clinical vignette may be helpful (and even better if you can find actual question bank resources that involve the topic).

 

[KarateSocks]

Join the party. You are far from the only person who feels this way. I know it sucks that things aren't as easy as they used to be.
Just study hard, do your best and ignore whatever the class average is.
Trust me, you'll feel far less miserable.

I make it a personal policy not to talk about the tests after I take them, it just makes me anxious, and I never discuss grades with my classmates - someone will end up feeling like crap no matter what.

 

[Just Joshin]

Thank you for kind words and suggestions. I do not feel entitled to be at the top indeed. But I find it unsatisfactory that I am putting in so much effort with very little outcome. I put in about same effort in undergrad (albeit with more fun, took up many hobbies but dont pursue them now as a medical student) and I shone through undergrad and I find myself fortunate for that. But it is just not working now.

You're putting in the same effort into med school as you did in undergrad and you're sad that you're average? Either you put in a hell of a lot of time in undergrad or you should get down on your knees and thank your lucky stars that you're able to get by with average scores with the same amount of effort. Undergrad for me? MAYBE 10 hours a week (and not per class, but total).

 

[emsdan]

Thank you for kind words and suggestions. I do not feel entitled to be at the top indeed. But I find it unsatisfactory that I am putting in so much effort with very little outcome. I put in about same effort in undergrad (albeit with more fun, took up many hobbies but dont pursue them now as a medical student) and I shone through undergrad and I find myself fortunate for that. But it is just not working now.

And I find it very hard and saddening and depressing to accept this reality, I continue to feel that there must be some way out of this, while there might not be and I should accept it as you and others have suggested?

Your issue is that you seem to not realize that most people in most colleges are fairly dumb, and most people in medical school are smart. Your class is made up of however many people that were also at the top of their classes.

When you take all the smart people from individual groups and put them together, there is going to be a new distribution. You happen to fall in the middle, which is where most people fall.

Try not to think of it as putting in much effort with little outcome. Outcome isn't defined by where you stand with against your peers (which would say that 50% of medical students are stupid failures), it comes from how much you are actually learning. If you are getting average scores (with average usually being in the low to mid 80's) then that means you are learning an incredible amount about the human body. Imagine if your undergrad courses were as hard as these, and how you would rank amongst that group. When it comes down to it, for everything we do in life, there will ALWAYS be someone better than us at it, so just do what you do and keep your chin up.

That said, don't give up your hobbies. What you do outside of medicine makes you you far more than anything you are going to do inside medicine. Einstein deduced much of the universe, but he still found time to play the violin, go sailing, and sleep with Marilyn Monroe.

 

[chiz2kul]

not to beat the horse, but everyone else nailed it.

OP: You're smart yes, but the sooner you accept that you're prob are not going to be top of your class, the easier your life will be. You're not alone feeling this way - over half your class feels the exact same way you do.

So just chill out. Work hard and do your personal best, learn the material to a satisfactory level and move on with your life.

The earlier I realized that I wont be anywhere close to top % in my class (even though I supposedly was rly smart back in college (lol good times..)) the less stressed out I became. Doesnt mean that i'm settling or that i'm lazy or stupid. I'm just being realistic.

 

[Ok2Panic]

Stop looking at the class average, stop asking your friends about their grades, and just stop measuring yourself up against everyone else. Your peace of mind will go up exponentially.

 

[EpiMan]

You know OP, i had this same feeling first year. Then I realized that i forget half the stuff I study by a few days later, so I started just studying fewer things and making sure they were big picture, mechanistic, or would explain the details I didn't want to memorize. I felt like a slacker at first, studying much less, but I get similar scores on exams with way less work. I also have a lot more time to study board prep materials.

This advice will not get you to the top of the class, but you can relax, learn about the same amount, and not go crazy thinking that you should be getting more out of the time you're putting in studying.

If all you want is to be at the top of the class, then you can forget my advice, stress all the time, study even more, and still not be at the top of the class because there are way too many competitive intelligent people in this field for most of us to be the big fish we were in our respective undergrad ponds.

 

[ar2388]

there are also people who dont study until 3-4 days before the exam, have a photographic memory, and pull mid 90's on the exam.. i know 2 people like that in my class...
i study my butt off and pull mid 80's... so *shrug*.. i cant really do anything about it.

 

[Slack3r]

Shouldn't it be "Not doing well..."

 

[Yope]

Your issue is that you seem to not realize that most people in most colleges are fairly dumb, and most people in medical school are smart. Your class is made up of however many people that were also at the top of their classes.

When you take all the smart people from individual groups and put them together, there is going to be a new distribution. You happen to fall in the middle, which is where most people fall.

Try not to think of it as putting in much effort with little outcome. Outcome isn't defined by where you stand with against your peers (which would say that 50% of medical students are stupid failures), it comes from how much you are actually learning. If you are getting average scores (with average usually being in the low to mid 80's) then that means you are learning an incredible amount about the human body. Imagine if your undergrad courses were as hard as these, and how you would rank amongst that group. When it comes down to it, for everything we do in life, there will ALWAYS be someone better than us at it, so just do what you do and keep your chin up.

That said, don't give up your hobbies. What you do outside of medicine makes you you far more than anything you are going to do inside medicine. Einstein deduced much of the universe, but he still found time to play the violin, go sailing, and sleep with Marilyn Monroe.

Einstein never slept with Marilyn Monroe.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

.......Or did he?

Well, JFK and Einstein are so easily confused.

 

[ucsfstudents]

If they are testing you on clinical material already, then when you study you should make sure you know these facts for each presentation (eg. dyspnea): know the most common differential diagnoses, know the typical history of the illness, physical exam findings, lab and imaging results for each of the most common diagnoses. If you can get this information wrapped around in your head before your tests, you should at least do OK, if not better than you've been doing. The knowledge has to get in your mind in an organized way so that you can recall it. You also need to synthesize what you are learning and organize it the way that doctors organize information. In the sciences, a lot of times you are expected to approach a problems from different angles; but in medicine, you are expected to approach a problem in a very step-wise organized problem-based fashion. You are being taught, through these tests, how to think like a doctor. Good luck!

 

[Belleza156]

I know it's random and has 0 to do with the post but chiz2kul, I really hate your ant emoticon thing! It annoyed me for a while and when I tried to smack it ....it kept moving!!! Damn that thing.

 

[da8s0859q]

I am extremely depressed that I am not at the top of my class right now. People who had no background in physiology whatsoever are doing better than me in class

I hope you realize how this sounds.

Anyway, everyone else already said what needs to be said. Your college major, as you have found, does not guarantee you a leg up on your classmates. Your history of being on top of the class doesn't mean quite as much when you're surrounded by people who were also at the top of their classes.

If it were me, I would just focus on doing my own thing. Work on your weak spots, and everything will fall in place from there. For whatever it's worth, my first exams in M1 kicked my ass, but after awhile, I just settled back into my own little groove like I did in college, and two cool things happened: my grades went up significantly, and I found a little more peace of mind.