Not even worth applying, is it?

[j306c954]

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Long story short. Didn't get accepted first time around (to my school of choice) simply because of my low MCAT score (as I was told by the dean of admissions). Just got my scores back from my THIRD retake. No improvement. Didn't even hit 50th percentile.

So probably not even worth applying, right?

 

[Cotterpin]

Oh no! What have you been doing to prepare for the test? (And yeah, you should probably not apply this cycle.)

 

[j306c954]

So many different things. The first time around I screwed up and only focused on content. Second time idk. I was doing fine on practice exams. I think a lot of it is the pressure of the test itself, which I thought I had under control. Clearly not.

 

[Ovid]

Was it your third retake (fourth attempt) or third attempt?

Either way, whether you should apply depends a lot on the rest of your application (ECs, GPA, etc.) and where you want to go (MD vs DO). A history of poor MCAT performance doesn't look good most places. You could take it again, if and only if, you are consistently scoring really, really well on practice exams after months of studying. If you were able to pull off an awesome score (90th percentile +) on your fourth/fifth exam you may have a shot somewhere depending on the rest of your application.

 

[Cotterpin]

So many different things. The first time around I screwed up and only focused on content. Second time idk. I was doing fine on practice exams. I think a lot of it is the pressure of the test itself, which I thought I had under control. Clearly not.

I feel like I need to ask you about a million questions about how your practice exams. Like, which company's tests did you use? What were your practice score breakdowns? How many did you do?

And then, I'm also thinking that you need to address your test anxiety. Practice in exam conditions was the most helpful thing for me, but maybe for you it's serious enough to seek professional help.

 

[j306c954]

I'll respond more in depth later, but I just got my score back and I'm kind of in shock. First did Kaplan (for old MCAT). Then Altius. I did all the practice tests for each company. As well as AAMC FL's.

I practiced in exam conditions, I'm just really bad at not putting pressure on myself. I have my whole life. Very type A competitive. Time crunches really get me. Also have trouble skipping questions I'm unsure of. I even got professional help.

 

[Cotterpin]

I'll respond more in depth later, but I just got my score back and I'm kind of in shock. First did Kaplan (for old MCAT). Then Altius. I did all the practice tests for each company. As well as AAMC FL's.

I practiced in exam conditions, I'm just really bad at not putting pressure on myself. I have my whole life. Very type A competitive. Time crunches really get me. Also have trouble skipping questions I'm unsure of. I even got professional help.

Then I don't know what to tell you. I'm so sorry.

 

[wavvvvvves123]

I feel like I need to ask you about a million questions about how your practice exams. Like, which company's tests did you use? What were your practice score breakdowns? How many did you do?

And then, I'm also thinking that you need to address your test anxiety. Practice in exam conditions was the most helpful thing for me, but maybe for you it's serious enough to seek professional help.

i also agree that test anxiety might be a big issue here. long story short, this past summer was really difficult for me and so, i was usually some mix of stressed and tired when i would sit down to study for the mcat and do my practice tests. weirdly enough, on test day, the happiness of realizing that i wouldn't have to worry about this stupid test for at least a couple of months (was planning to do a re-take during Spring if necessary) calmed me down a lot. i felt really confident and relaxed and energetic when it was finally time to take the test. and i got a really high score (significantly higher than my practice exams).

so to summarize, i agree that OP should look into ways to keep himself/herself calm, confident, and clear-headed when actually taking the test if she or he hasn't already.

it's definitely a tough spot, though 🙁

 

[piii]

You might be able to apply DO if the rest of your app is great. A 4th take won't look too good unless you make serious improvements, probably into the 33+ range. It is really unfortunate but being a physician requires ability to do well on standardized tests and the ability to realize mistakes and make corrections to improve. Some people are just not cut out for that part of it. Do what you need to do to pursue your dream, it isn't unheard of. But be realistic too, and make some strong considerations of other professions that may interest you. Sorry man, best of luck

 

[jl lin]

I'll respond more in depth later, but I just got my score back and I'm kind of in shock. First did Kaplan (for old MCAT). Then Altius. I did all the practice tests for each company. As well as AAMC FL's.

I practiced in exam conditions, I'm just really bad at not putting pressure on myself. I have my whole life. Very type A competitive. Time crunches really get me. Also have trouble skipping questions I'm unsure of. I even got professional help.

j3, I am so very sorry. Don't give up. Hmmm, I had heard a while back that Altius was very good; but that was before the big MCAT change.

Yea, first get more help with text anxiety, and then check your knowledge-base and inferential reading skills.

I had a bit of text anxiety when I was first in college, years ago, and what helped me was doing certain kinds of exams ad nauseum. I mean so many and much that it had a desensitizing effect on me. Kind of like stage fright if you have ever performed (music, voice, instrument, acting, etc) or had to do public speaking. You have to learn what it means to "flow" in the moment in order to rise above the stress, which may feel overwhelming. Also, you have to do it enough--so much that it's like habit, like brushing your teeth or putting on your seatbelt.

Plus, it helps to be the kind of person that will not allow others or various situations total power over who you are and your sense of self-worth. The power is within you. Getting the idea is one thing. Learning to put it into practice is another and it requires a habitude approach and determination, and really, time.

It's a Victor Frankl kind of thing.

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom."-Viktor E. Frankl

 

[jl lin]

Yes, but even if applying DO, test anxiety will still be an issue--and at that point, a much more costly one. To me this is a signal to evaluate first things first--quite fully--and get some objective analysis if at all possible.

I would hate to get into MS (DO or MD) and begin to drown, b/c I didn't get enough of a handle on this kind of thing. It's just too expensive, stressful, and time-consuming. Yes. Do first things first.

 

[j306c954]

Then I don't know what to tell you. I'm so sorry.

It's alright, thank you though. I'm just so...blah

 

[j306c954]

Was it your third retake (fourth attempt) or third attempt?

Either way, whether you should apply depends a lot on the rest of your application (ECs, GPA, etc.) and where you want to go (MD vs DO). A history of poor MCAT performance doesn't look good most places. You could take it again, if and only if, you are consistently scoring really, really well on practice exams after months of studying. If you were able to pull off an awesome score (90th percentile +) on your fourth/fifth exam you may have a shot somewhere depending on the rest of your application.

Third retake. The rest of my application is "very impressive" (in the words of the dean I spoke to). To name a few things...3.9 GPA, graduated with distinction, completed an honors thesis, tons of research experience, awards, I was a counselor for the suicide hotline for over 3 years, 3rd degree black belt in Taekwondo, etc...
I was thinking DO, but isn't the minimum for most DO programs a 500?

 

[Ovid]

Third retake. The rest of my application is "very impressive" (in the words of the dean I spoke to). To name a few things...3.9 GPA, graduated with distinction, completed an honors thesis, tons of research experience, awards, I was a counselor for the suicide hotline for over 3 years, 3rd degree black belt in Taekwondo, etc...
I was thinking DO, but isn't the minimum for most DO programs a 500?

It sounds like the rest of your application is pretty impressive. It really depends on your exact score. I believe that there are some DO schools who will accept a lower score if the rest of the application is good, but there are definitely scores that are so low that they are lethal. I don't know if I would recommend taking the MCAT a fifth time.

Others, like @Goro, would be better at giving you a more informed answer to your competitiveness for DO.

 

[gmbz]

Having a slamming rest of your application is certainly beneficial. How close to 500 were you? This would depend on what you do. I understand that this forums likes the high MCAT's and GPA's. You have a high GPA. If you story is compelling there is definitely something there. Keep in mind that ~17 % of applicants with solid gpa's and MCAT's in the 40-50% range (OLD MCAT) do get offered acceptances into MD schools. I would suspect however that these people have stellar EC's/PS/LOR's and most likely healthcare related experience.

 

[candbgirl]

What are your 3 scores exactly ? How many schools did you apply to before. It almost sounds like you only applied to one but I figure that's not true. Did you apply and get into a school just not your school of choice? Sorry but the way you worded the original post has me confused.

 

[ivorypearls]

Have you exhausted all other possible options: prep classes, taking practice tests in a simulated environment, rather than at home, getting a psych eval? You seem like an A+ applicant in other aspects. It could be issues with confidence and testing nerves, or it could very well be an anxiety disorder. In the later case, there are ways AMCAS can accomodate you during your exam

 

[Goro]

I can't sugar coat this ; I can't recommend applying anywhere. Time for Plan B.

Long story short. Didn't get accepted first time around (to my school of choice) simply because of my low MCAT score (as I was told by the dean of admissions). Just got my scores back from my THIRD retake. No improvement. Didn't even hit 50th percentile.

So probably not even worth applying, right?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

It all depends on what those three scores were

 

[candbgirl]

I just reread your post. IMO you shouldn't reapply this cycle. It is really late for MD and getting late for DO. Figure out what's the problem with you and tests and get it fixed. Remember the MCAT is the first in a long series of major exams you'll have to take and pass in med school and beyond.

 

[jl lin]

I can't sugar coat this ; I can't recommend applying anywhere. Time for Plan B.

I skimmed past MCAT take of third time, but still. You don't think that if the OP can hone in on testing issues and improve, they still wouldn't have a chance at all at DO?

 

[GypsyHummus]

OP, look into podiatry school.

 

[mimelim]

One should not be retaking the MCAT unless there is reasonable expectation of improvement. Given that most people stay the same or do worse, it is a waste of time to retake the MCAT unless there are specific things that will change the second time around. Taking the MCAT 3 times without improvement is a marker of poor judgement. It also calls into question a 3.9 and highlights the glossed over things like major, course load, etc.

The first question is, "Is there any reason to expect your MCAT score to improve on a subsequent test?" This isn't about studying more. You have clearly tried that and it hasn't worked. If the answer is Yes, the you should retake the MCAT and apply next cycle. If the answer is "No", then you should as @Goro says, move on to plan B.

 

[winterwind_23]

Shouldn't have gotten that dog. I knew it.

Edit: Kidding aside, sorry to hear. Maybe you're not studying right. Can you possibly take 3-4 months off to dedicate purely to MCAT studying?

 

[ZedsDed]

I can't sugar coat this ; I can't recommend applying anywhere. Time for Plan B.

I saw on another thread that OP has a 497 and a 3.9+. Considering that a 497 (~24) is only a couple of points below the median MCAT of the lowest ranked DO schools, you don't think OP has any shot?

And OP, you really need to start posting specific stats on these threads if you want Goro/mimelim to give you the most informed advice that they can.

 

[Goro]

3x MCAT taker and the best score is a 24? This says that the OP has serious test taking issues, hasn't learned anything, or is taking the exam unprepared or not in the best condition to do so. If the latter, poor choice making opens yet another of issues, none of them good.

OP is at great than normal risk to fail out of med school and/or fail Boards.

I saw on another thread that OP has a 497 and a 3.9+. Considering that a 497 (~24) is only a couple of points below the median MCAT of the lowest ranked DO schools, you don't think OP has any shot?

And OP, you really need to start posting specific stats on these threads if you Goro/mimelim to give you the most informed advice that they can.

 

[ZedsDed]

3x MCAT taker and the best score is a 24? This says that the OP has serious test taking issues, hasn't learned anything, or is taking the exam unprepared or not in the best condition to do so. If the latter, poor choice making opens yet another of issues, none of them good.

OP is at great than normal risk to fail out of med school and/or fail Boards.

I absolutely agree with all of that. I just think there are one or two schools with questionable motives that may take an applicant like OP. Still, if OP is smart she will fix her deficits before applying, for her own sake.

 

[Affiche]

3x MCAT taker and the best score is a 24? This says that the OP has serious test taking issues, hasn't learned anything, or is taking the exam unprepared or not in the best condition to do so. If the latter, poor choice making opens yet another of issues, none of them good.

OP is at great than normal risk to fail out of med school and/or fail Boards.

How can you say this though without knowing all three scores or the breakdown of scores for each section? OP probably didn't exercise the best judgement by deciding to test so many times, but there are so many kids who get into DO schools with worse stats. Her gpa is great and depending on what her MCAT bio score, her prospects for med school success could be fine.

 

[Affiche]

lksjadfklsjdf sorry, I'm cranky today. I'm sick of all the presumptuous advice on these threads that's always filled with negativity and rarely ever helpful.

 

[deleted158872]

Long story short. Didn't get accepted first time around (to my school of choice) simply because of my low MCAT score (as I was told by the dean of admissions). Just got my scores back from my THIRD retake. No improvement. Didn't even hit 50th percentile.

So probably not even worth applying, right?

Try The Berkeley Review (TBR) books. These are THE best MCAT prep books I know. http://www.berkeley-review.com/TBR/home-study.html

I tried this set of books + committed to full-time studying for 2 months = it made 8 points difference in my MCAT score (old MCAT)!

 

[ZedsDed]

How can you say this though without knowing all three scores or the breakdown of scores for each section? OP probably didn't exercise the best judgement by deciding to test so many times, but there are so many kids who get into DO schools with worse stats. Her gpa is great and depending on what her MCAT bio score, her prospects for med school success could be fine.

Data shows that med students who get in with <24 are at risk for failing step 1. If OP had a 27 or so I would agree with you.

 

[Goro]

I'm can't look at merely the single 24 (which appears to be the highest score), it's the factors I stated above. There are two many red flags. Someone who would do well in Bio but poorly in the other subsections (for which people are supposed to do well on) implies either a lack of staying power, or an inability to master more than one subject, something that the OP will need to do in med school, and for Boards.

How can you say this though without knowing all three scores or the breakdown of scores for each section? OP probably didn't exercise the best judgement by deciding to test so many times, but there are so many kids who get into DO schools with worse stats. Her gpa is great and depending on what her MCAT bio score, her prospects for med school success could be fine.

Now Rachiie, you know the OP didn't come here for hugs and kisses, but realistic advice! Like it or not, it IS being helpful to get someone off of the wrong career path, and get on with their lives. Med school is not for everyone.

lksjadfklsjdf sorry, I'm cranky today. I'm sick of all the presumptuous advice on these threads that's always filled with negativity and rarely ever helpful

 

[Affiche]

Data shows that med students who get in with <24 are at risk for failing step 1. If OP had a 27 or so I would agree with you.

Well I guess it's a damn good thing then that she scored a 24.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Data shows that med students who get in with <24 are at risk for failing step 1. If OP had a 27 or so I would agree with you.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

Let's also qualify for a second here what "Greater" risk for failing step 1 actually means. 83% of people with a 3.8+ and 21-23 passed Step 1 on their first attempt. Number goes up to 90% for those with 24-26's. National average is 94%. So when we talk about being a greater risk we are basically saying OP is about 5-10% more likely to fail step 1 on their first attempt than the average applicant. Now for the risk adverse nature of ADCOMs, that 5-10% additional risk is a lot. But in the grand scheme of things, odds are still strongly in favor of someone like this passing Step 1 the first time. I don't know data about the COMPLEX exam, maybe it's out there somewhere and some can share it.

Now the better argument to make here is that ADCOMs don't merely want people who can just pass Step 1. They want people who can excel. That's where the OP's problem is when presenting a case to medical schools about why they should be accepted. Because if we are being honest, the odds of a 2.6 GPA student with a 22 MCAT being able to graduate an MD school in 5 years and getting a residency and being a physician are still more favorable than not.

Having said that, as much as some don't like to admit it there are numerous people with 23's and 24's accepted to newer DO programs every year, many of whom don't have close to a 3.9. These are people's career directions and futures at stake; I know you personally didn't do this but I'm just not a fan of telling someone they need a Plan B when people like them are accepted to DO's every year. If 23 was a death sentence, schools like Morehouse, Howard and Puerto Rican schools would have started getting in trouble a while ago.

 

[Affiche]

I'm can't look at merely the single 24 (which appears to be the highest score), it's the factors I stated above. There are two many red flags. Someone who would do well in Bio but poorly in the other subsections (for which people are supposed to do well on) implies either a lack of staying power, or an inability to master more than one subject, something that the OP will need to do in med school, and for Boards.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here because that's the mood I'm in today lol.

She said she didn't improve. What if she scored 24 multiple times? Scores of 24+ have shown to be fine for future board performance. What if her bio section was the highest section? That suggests that she's in good shape for step 1. Can't handle multiple subjects? Her gpa is 3.9+ so unless she took 1 class at a time, that doesn't hold.

You may very well be right that medical school won't pan out for her, but without knowing the details of her application I think that notion is better left unsaid. Telling someone they aren't cut out for a career is a big deal and shouldn't be taken lightly, so I don't get why it's advised so quickly and so frequently on this site.

 

[deleted158872]

Exactly 10 years ago, the average MCAT scores at DO schools were 18-23 - I don't think more students failed out back then than they do now. Some new DO schools still accept students with <22 MCAT. A few MD schools in Puerto Rico, for example, have MCAT averages in the low 20's. MSAR shows that 10th percentile at a few MD schools is 24-25.

 

[Affiche]

Now Rachiie, you know the OP didn't come here for hugs and kisses, but realistic advice! Like it or not, it IS being helpful to get someone off of the wrong career path, and get on with their lives. Med school is not for everyone.

Realistically, she has better stats than plenty of DO students and her MCAT score could be promising for success on Step 1. Med school isn't for everyone, but that doesn't necessarily include the OP.

 

[ZedsDed]

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

Let's also qualify for a second here what "Greater" risk for failing step 1 actually means. 83% of people with a 3.8+ and 21-23 passed Step 1 on their first attempt. Number goes up to 90% for those with 24-26's. National average is 94%. So when we talk about being a greater risk we are basically saying OP is about 5-10% more likely to fail step 1 on their first attempt than the average applicant. Now for the risk adverse nature of ADCOMs, that 5-10% additional risk is a lot. But in the grand scheme of things, odds are still strongly in favor of someone like this passing Step 1 the first tiem.

Now the better argument to make here is that ADCOMs don't merely want people who can just pass Step 1. They want people who can excel. That's where the OP's problem is when presenting a case to medical schools about why they should be accepted. Because if we are being honest, the odds of a 2.6 GPA student with a 22 MCAT being able to graduate an MD school in 5 years and getting a residency and being a physician are still more favorable than not.

Having said that, as much as we don't like to admit it there are numerous people with 23's and 24's accepted to newer DO programs every year, many of whom don't have close to a 3.9.

Obviously the lower we are talking the greater the risk. But OP took the MCAT three times and the best she could do was a 24. I'm not sure about your assessment that the average extremely-low stats applicant has great odds for success. There is almost always a story behind a >3.0 GPA and >24 med school matriculant.

A 3.9 GPA says that OP has test-taking deficits, which is at the very least fixable. At the end of the day it is up to the OP to decide whether she will apply this cycle or not.

 

[mimelim]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here because that's the mood I'm in today lol.

She said she didn't improve. What if she scored 24 multiple times? Scores of 24+ have shown to be fine for future board performance. What if her bio section was the highest section? That suggests that she's in good shape for step 1. Can't handle multiple subjects? Her gpa is 3.9+ so unless she took 1 class at a time, that doesn't hold.

You may very well be right that medical school won't pan out for her, but without knowing the details of her application I think that notion is better left unsaid. Telling someone they aren't cut out for a career is a big deal and shouldn't be taken lightly, so I don't get why it's advised so quickly and so frequently on this site.

The problem with "playing devil's advocate" is that you say things that don't make any sense and then expect a discussion. Where does it show that a "Score of 24+ have shown to be fine for future board performance". Are you referring to @GrapesofRath or @ZedsDed posts? "Promising for success on Step 1". Do you know what success on Step 1 is? Do even know you know what Step 1 is?

#1 There is a fundamental difference between 24+ and taking MCAT 3 times and maxing out at 24.
#2 There is a fundamental difference between doing well on Step 1 or being successful and passing.
#3 It is not acceptable to expect a student to have a 10% Step 1 failure rate. It is one thing to know that in a group of people 10% will fail. It is an entirely different story to admit someone knowing that they will be at 10% chance of not passing.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Obviously the lower we are talking the greater the risk. But OP took the MCAT three times and the best she could do was a 24. I'm not sure about your assessment that the average extremely-low stats applicant has great odds for success. There is almost always a story behind a >3.0 GPA and >24 med school matriculant.

A 3.9 GPA says that OP has test-taking deficits, which is at the very least fixable. At the end of the day it is up to the OP to decide whether she will apply this cycle or not.

The story is often times them simply going to a Puerto Rican school or HBMC or being a URM who snuck into their state school. Like I said, many people are accepted to DO programs every year with 23-24 MCATs and the story behind it isn't as grand as we might assume.

I guess though I should maintain I don't advocate for arguing that "oh 3 mediocre MCAT attempts they'll be fine it's all about just passing Step 1 and you're good". It's just I'm always a little hesitant to tell someone its time for Plan B plain and simple for an issue that is a bit more complex.

 

[ZedsDed]

Well I guess it's a damn good thing then that she scored a 24.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I'll repeat the key caveat again that medical schools aren't merely interested in people who can sneak by and pass through. They want people who can excel. That's where the OP's greater problem is. Nobody wants to admit someone they have to actively worry about potentially being a risk factor to struggle.

 

[ZedsDed]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here because that's the mood I'm in today lol.

She said she didn't improve. What if she scored 24 multiple times? Scores of 24+ have shown to be fine for future board performance. What if her bio section was the highest section? That suggests that she's in good shape for step 1. Can't handle multiple subjects? Her gpa is 3.9+ so unless she took 1 class at a time, that doesn't hold.

You may very well be right that medical school won't pan out for her, but without knowing the details of her application I think that notion is better left unsaid. Telling someone they aren't cut out for a career is a big deal and shouldn't be taken lightly, so I don't get why it's advised so quickly and so frequently on this site.

Premeds/med students absolutely shouldn't be flippantly "advising" people to change careers, especially when they don't know the totality of the application.

AdCom members are a different story; it's their job to make such judgements, and it's the main reason people come to SDN. This site would be completely useless if AdCom members only offered "hugs and kisses" as Goro puts it.

 

[Cotterpin]

It's alright, thank you though. I'm just so...blah

Looking at the bright side, you're not great at taking massive, high-pressure exams but you are still young and you're clearly very smart. So now you're at a point where you have a million other roads you could take. It's exciting! You'll find something else you love and you will excel at it. 👍

 

[GrapesofRath]

Premeds/med students absolutely shouldn't be flippantly "advising" people to change careers, especially when they don't know the totality of the application.

AdCom members are a different story; it's their job to make such judgements, and it's the main reason people come to SDN. This site would be completely useless if AdCom members only offered "hugs and kisses" as Goro puts it.

I think there are two separate questions here at play and we might be confusing them and trying to combine them as one

a) Does the OP have a shot at getting into a DO school with 3 MCAT attempts that never hit above 24?

b) If it is possible for the OP to get in, are they someone who is a greater risk at failing step 1 and having other problems in medical school? Just how great is that risk?

It's fine for someone to talk about b) while addressing part a) even if the OP didn't ask for part b). But the answer to question a is what the OP came on here for. That's not what should be lost here. Now the answer to b) matters and asking the question matters alot as well, but there's a difference between saying "you should switch careers because you have no shot at getting in" and "you should switch careers because while you might be able to get in people with your stats have a greater chance of struggling even if struggling isn't defined as failing step 1". These two aren't necessarily as separate as I'm making them out to be here, but they still are two separate statements with some different considerations.

 

[ZedsDed]

I think there are two separate questions here at play and we might be confusing them and trying to combine them as one

a) Does the OP have a shot at getting into a DO school with 3 MCAT attempts that never hit above 24?

b) If it is possible for the OP to get in, are they someone who is a greater risk at failing step 1 and having other problems in medical school? Just how great is that risk?

It's fine for someone to talk about b) while addressing part a) even if the OP didn't ask for part b). But the answer to question a is what the OP came on here for. That's not what should be lost here. Now the answer to b) matters and asking the question matters alot as well, but there's a difference between saying "you should switch careers because you have no shot at getting in" and "you should switch careers because while you might be able to get in people with your stats have a greater chance of struggling even if struggling isn't defined as failing step 1". These two aren't necessarily as separate as I'm making them out to be here, but they still are two separate statements with some different considerations.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable advising a fellow premed to switch career paths unless it was a no-brainer (ie multiple felony convictions coupled with an IA for cheating sort of an applicant.)

 

[Affiche]

The problem with "playing devil's advocate" is that you say things that don't make any sense and then expect a discussion. Where does it show that a "Score of 24+ have shown to be fine for future board performance". Are you referring to @GrapesofRath or @ZedsDed posts? "Promising for success on Step 1". Do you know what success on Step 1 is? Do even know you know what Step 1 is?

#1 There is a fundamental difference between 24+ and taking MCAT 3 times and maxing out at 24.
#2 There is a fundamental difference between doing well on Step 1 or being successful and passing.
#3 It is not acceptable to expect a student to have a 10% Step 1 failure rate. It is one thing to know that in a group of people 10% will fail. It is an entirely different story to admit someone knowing that they will be at 10% chance of not passing.

Are you kidding? People would be much more inclined to have a healthy discussion with you if every one of your posts wasn't filled with condescension.
Yes, obviously I know what Step 1 is otherwise I wouldn't bother discussing it. 🙄

What is the point of telling someone not to apply to medical school at all when you know next to nothing about her application? Posting in thread after thread of hers just to comment about how poor her chances are is really unnecessary and not helpful, as other posters have pointed out to you.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable advising a fellow premed to switch career paths unless it was a no-brainer (ie multiple felony convictions coupled with an IA for cheating sort of an applicant.)

Yeah that was kind of my point. I'm never going to be the person who tells someone online you need to get away from medicine. That's just not what people with so little perspective on the actual field itself like me are here for.

But part of this here is also trying to answer the OP's initial question "Do I even have any chance at a DO school?". the discussion about youre a risk is fine and necessary, but there comes a point where I think the whole purpose of this site is to directly address that question, while discussing the risk involved and leaving it to the OP to decide if they want to pursue a career where there are signs they are at greater risk to struggle. I'm not sure its the best approach for anybody, ADCOM or not, to simply ignore the first part of the question, only talk about what a risk they are, and then flatly state time for Plan B without talking about the initial question.

But alas, this thread is getting a little out of hand. I don't think this was what the OP or anybody was hoping for I just thought it was a fascinating discussion. I think fascinating has been replaced by overly aggressive now though describing everything here.

 

[Lawpy]

I can't sugar coat this ; I can't recommend applying anywhere. Time for Plan B.

One should not be retaking the MCAT unless there is reasonable expectation of improvement. Given that most people stay the same or do worse, it is a waste of time to retake the MCAT unless there are specific things that will change the second time around. Taking the MCAT 3 times without improvement is a marker of poor judgement. It also calls into question a 3.9 and highlights the glossed over things like major, course load, etc.

The first question is, "Is there any reason to expect your MCAT score to improve on a subsequent test?" This isn't about studying more. You have clearly tried that and it hasn't worked. If the answer is Yes, the you should retake the MCAT and apply next cycle. If the answer is "No", then you should as @Goro says, move on to plan B.

It would be tempting for premeds to attack these posts for being harshly dismissive, but they would be sorely mistaken. As mentioned, i can understand a 24 on the first attempt, since many people do retake and score very high, even breaking 40+. But three attempts with a max score of 24 effectively seals the app out of all MD and most DO schools. Even if OP retakes the MCAT and score very high (>36), the weight of the first three attempts will hold her back.

 

[Affiche]

Premeds/med students absolutely shouldn't be flippantly "advising" people to change careers, especially when they don't know the totality of the application.

AdCom members are a different story; it's their job to make such judgements, and it's the main reason people come to SDN. This site would be completely useless if AdCom members only offered "hugs and kisses" as Goro puts it.

Oops, I thought all caps was yelling? 😱

I don't think anyone should be advising people to change careers unless they have a complete picture, which no one here does.
This bugs me because 5 years ago I remember questioning whether or not I had a chance of getting in anywhere. If I had asked someone about the biggest flaw in my application, and only the biggest flaw in my application, I know that I would have been encouraged by some to pursue other options. A good adviser won't offer advice without gathering all the relevant information first.