Not Finishing a Master's Program (ADCOM opinions)

[Maxprime]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Because of MCAT timing issues, applying to traditional master's programs is a much better option for me next year. I won't have my MCAT scores until mid-summer, but can take the GRE in the next few weeks.

My question is - let's say I'm in a traditional master's in biochem, pharm, physio, etc. that lasts 2 years. If I apply to med schools this year (in summer) and they ask what I'm doing that fall - I'll say my first year of a 2 year master's program. Is this going to sour them at all? I figure it wouldn't help - just strongly reinforce that I'd be leaving the program if they let me in (still sounds awful).

Does anyone have any experience w/ this or advice? TIA.

Oh - as for why I'd be doing this - I'm a post-bacc with a TON of undergrad hours, so my UG GPA isn't going to move much after this year. I'll be done w/ pre-reqs, so I figure if I'm taking upper div classes like physio & immuno - why not take them on a shiny new GPA towards a degree? My state school also offers a pretty good master's program for medical sciences, but it's 2 years.

 

[Sundarban1]

Because of MCAT timing issues, applying to traditional master's programs is a much better option for me next year. I won't have my MCAT scores until mid-summer, but can take the GRE in the next few weeks.

My question is - let's say I'm in a traditional master's in biochem, pharm, physio, etc. that lasts 2 years. If I apply to med schools this year (in summer) and they ask what I'm doing that fall - I'll say my first year of a 2 year master's program. Is this going to sour them at all? I figure it wouldn't help - just strongly reinforce that I'd be leaving the program if they let me in (still sounds awful).

Does anyone have any experience w/ this or advice? TIA.

Oh - as for why I'd be doing this - I'm a post-bacc with a TON of undergrad hours, so my UG GPA isn't going to move much after this year. I'll be done w/ pre-reqs, so I figure if I'm taking upper div classes like physio & immuno - why not take them on a shiny new GPA towards a degree? My state school also offers a pretty good master's program for medical sciences, but it's 2 years.

First no one on here is an adcom member. There is a sticky in the pre-allopathic forum where I believe an adcom member answers questions, so maybe you want to take this question there. However I've spoken to a few on this issue since I finished my masters a few years back. I can only give you my opinion based on thier advice. Their advice was to finish your master's program if you have already started, and DONT start a traditional master's program that A. You are not truely interested in, and B. You are planning on not finishing. You have 2 things working against you:

1. It seems you are confusing semantics between "upper level" and "graduate" science classes. They are not the same! When we refer to "upper level" science classes such as immuno, cell bio, physiology, etc. we are speaking of undergraduate level classes that are above what a normal undergraduate would take as a pre-med. Now at HES you will notice these "upper level" courses are offered for both undergraduate and graduate credits, each having their own per credit price for the same class. Be clear that if you take these classes as graduate credits, they will NOT improve your GPA, as you seem to think in your original post. Only undergraduate level classes will be factored into GPA (your current undergraduate classes and post bacc classes) if you are applying to Allopathic schools, as they are taken at the undergraduate level.

2. Dropping a traditional master's program is not looked upon favorably anyway, so I don't think it would work to your advantage in either case.

 

[Lindyhopper]

Also note there are many programs where one can earn an MA in one traditional schoolyear.
There are also, of course, several SMP-type programs that can be completed in one year (Georgetown, Cincy) or allow one to earn a certificate after one year, with the option of completing the master's in the second year.

 

[Maxprime]

1. It seems you are confusing semantics between "upper level" and "graduate" science classes. They are not the same!

2. Dropping a traditional master's program is not looked upon favorably anyway, so I don't think it would work to your advantage in either case.

I was saying upper level vs. graduate b/c my UG GPA isn't going to move much - so if I'm taking the same class, might as well have it go on my graduate GPA instead of not moving my UG GPA. Plus, might as well have it go towards a degree if I have that option.

If I did a trad. master's, it would be in something I liked (biochem or pharm probably), but you bring up a good point - quitting a program is quitting a program. My problem is with timing of the MCAT (June) vs. applying to SMP's - but I just got off the phone w/ BU MAMS and they seem to be just fine with the GRE.

I get the feeling that most programs that take the GRE keep it as an option, but don't really like it (understandably). The BU MAMS admissions lady seemed just fine with it. What kind of scores are they looking for on GRE's? Do any other programs legitimately look @ GRE scores w/ no MCAT's? TIA

 

[Maxprime]

Also note there are many programs where one can earn an MA in one traditional schoolyear.
There are also, of course, several SMP-type programs that can be completed in one year (Georgetown, Cincy) or allow one to earn a certificate after one year, with the option of completing the master's in the second year.

I know it's a pain, but it's a tougher thing to google - can you name off a few of the one-year trad master's programs? I say traditional to infer they don't require the MCAT (as all SMP's seem to).

 

[Sundarban1]

I was saying upper level vs. graduate b/c my UG GPA isn't going to move much - so if I'm taking the same class, might as well have it go on my graduate GPA instead of not moving my UG GPA. Plus, might as well have it go towards a degree if I have that option.

If I did a trad. master's, it would be in something I liked (biochem or pharm probably), but you bring up a good point - quitting a program is quitting a program. My problem is with timing of the MCAT (June) vs. applying to SMP's - but I just got off the phone w/ BU MAMS and they seem to be just fine with the GRE.

I get the feeling that most programs that take the GRE keep it as an option, but don't really like it (understandably). The BU MAMS admissions lady seemed just fine with it. What kind of scores are they looking for on GRE's? Do any other programs legitimately look @ GRE scores w/ no MCAT's? TIA

I don't see why you're still contemplating graduate classes that A) will not improve a low GPA (ie help your med school apps) and B) you will be unable to finish in 1 year. You would rather take graduate credits that will not count towards your GPA than have the undergraduate credits that will? Does not sound like good reasoning to me. If your argument is that it will not move my GPA that much, hey! something is better than nothing. Another thing to keep in mind (with the fact you won't finish a traditional masters) is that in the eyes of adcoms (so I've been told) graduate classes are looked at as easier than undergraduate classes. The bottom line is that unless you are thinking a 1 year SMP (not a traditional master's program), you will not be helping yourself in your quest for admission to medical school by taking graduate classes, even if you do eventually earn a degree.

 

[Maxprime]

I don't see why you're still contemplating graduate classes that A) will not improve a low GPA (ie help your med school apps) and B) you will be unable to finish in 1 year. You would rather take graduate credits that will not count towards your GPA than have the undergraduate credits that will? Does not sound like good reasoning to me. If your argument is that it will not move my GPA that much, hey! something is better than nothing.

My thinking was that the effort going into making A's in the classes wouldn't be worth the rise in GPA. I'm talking about taking 24 hours in a year and getting a 4.0 but it only increasing my UG GPA by .04 or something like that - it just doesn't seem worth the effort when the same effort could land me a 4.0 in a graduate program. By the end of this year, I should have just a shade under 200 UG hours. I could be sitting with a 3.14 instead of a 3.1 or I could be a 3.1 with a 4.0 graduate GPA - I just figured the latter would be better. A master's would probably involve getting published - wouldn't it also give me a stronger linkage to a school?

Another thing to keep in mind (with the fact you won't finish a traditional masters) is that in the eyes of adcoms (so I've been told) graduate classes are looked at as easier than undergraduate classes.

I agree 100% about graduate being not only being graded easier (they are - just look @ GPA's in trad grad programs), but grad GPA not weighted nearly as much as UG. My problem is that a June MCAT (which is really the earliest possible time for me to take it) puts me WAY behind the pack in applying to SMP's and my GPA will still be low (3.1).

The bottom line is that unless you are thinking a 1 year SMP (not a traditional master's program), you will not be helping yourself in your quest for admission to medical school by taking graduate classes, even if you do eventually earn a degree.

I think this may be the most important thing you said - do you really think that a non-SMP is relatively worthless? When I say trad grad program I am talking about a master's in medical science, physio, pharm, etc. - just not taking classes w/ med students and not being done in 1 year (what makes SMP's so great).

 

[Instatewaiter]

To the OP:
I recommend against doing a masters program if you are looking to get accepted in a year. You would have to finish the masters. Very few programs would look favorably upon a person leaving another school's masters program unfinished. Med schools also are pretty strictly against allowing a graduate student at their school to enter their med school w/o finishing his/her degree. Most will force you to finish the masters before matriculating.

SMP is probably the better way to go. Plus there are a lot of SMPs that will accept the GRE instead of the MCAT. With the number of UG hours you have logged, taking more Ugrad classes is foolish if it is not going to markedly improve your GPA. A fresh start with a nice, clean Grad GPA may work wonders for you.

I might have to disagree w/ sundarban1 a bit. I have never heard anyone say that Graduate courses are easier than Ugrad, especially not people who have any experience with them. From my experience, graduate science courses (taken in graduate school, not as a Ugrad) are much harder than Ugrad courses and even harder than many of the med school classes. From the deans of admissions that I have talked to I have never been given the idea that they view graduate classes as easier in any way. I would estimate that more than 20% of my med school class did some sort of graduate work (SMP, Masters, PhD). So clearly a lot of value is given to an advanced degree (at least at my school).

In terms of being 'graded easier' remember a few points. All the rifraff from Ugrad have been weeded out so everyone comes to work. Also a C in graduate school is a failing grade.

 

[Lindyhopper]

In my CUNY master's in Bio some courses were cross listed with undergrad courses. The grad version of the course always had more requirements & was graded on a harder curve.

 

[Sundarban1]

A master's would probably involve getting published - wouldn't it also give me a stronger linkage to a school?

Not usually in terms of being published. SMP's on occasion have linkages to medical schools, I don't know of any traditional programs that have that.

do you really think that a non-SMP is relatively worthless?

For someone looking to improve their application with the goal of applying to medical school, yes.

When I say trad grad program I am talking about a master's in medical science, physio, pharm, etc. - just not taking classes w/ med students and not being done in 1 year (what makes SMP's so great).

You just hit the nail on the head as to why the only Master's programs you should be considering at this point if you goal is medical school should be SMP's.

 

[Maxprime]

First off, I agree with sundarban - graduate classes (trad) aren't necessarily easier - just graded differently. A C in grad school is like an F in undergrad.

I'm also starting to agree that, for the purposes of med school applications, SMP is the way to go - trads are tough to even compare.

I crunched the numbers - I'll get an improvement of .08 after a year of taking 3 classes/semester and getting a 4.0. That's nothing to flinch at, but I feel like an SMP is a better use of time. I think the way to go is to take the GRE and hope to get into an SMP.

I appreciate the responses - I think it just takes me a while to come around to reality. I got an email from Georgetown - they said they are looking for around a 1350 on the GRE (as an FYI to others). Great - one more standardized test to study for. 🙁