Not good enough for MD going DO

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with the wonderful trolling title and materials you've provided, you'll do greeaaaat!
 
If you have MD stats its not necessarily to say that you're going to get in next year either. That's the issue, you'll be risking a lot either way.
 
If you are unsatisfied and feel out of place, you should re-apply. Sure, bird in hand is what they'll say, but sometimes you gamble for what you really want.
 
If in your opinion you were good enough for MD, why did you apply DO? You must have had some doubts.. and if you didn't really want DO why did you apply for DO? You have probably taken a few people's spots away, and it's a double edged sword
 
CG37387n said:
If in your opinion you were good enough for MD, why did you apply DO? You must have had some doubts.. and if you didn't really want DO why did you apply for DO? You have probably taken a few people's spots away, and it's a double edged sword
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Honestly the research I had done for applying to DO was looking at DO school websites, talking to the DOs I shadowed, and looking at the DO forum on SDN really attracted to DO schools. I don't want to make it seem like I don't think DO is great and I apologize re-reading what I wrote that is exactly what I said 🙁

Let me clarify my struggle is not with the philosophy or OMM or any of the things that differentiate DO's from MD's (I actually prefer the DO education) rather it is the societal constructs that trouble me. Constantly hearing from parents, co-workers, MD physician mentors that its great that I got in to a DO school but they are still holding out hope that I get in to an MD program.

I don't know how to convey that I am NOT a troll. Once day one of school starts I know that I won't look back and will set my nose to the grind stone and work to get a competitive residency. It's just dealing with the psychological aspect of feeling inferior AND simultaneously helpless to improve myself and show my worth until Sp=ept.
 
You should probably stop trying to please your parents/mentors and instead focus on what will make you happy.

I recommend interpretive dance and brownie sundaes. But that's just what makes me happy. (Simultaneously, of course.)
 
DoctorKrieger said:
It sounds like you're purely concerned with the letters after your name. If that's the case, reevaluate the reason you want to go into medicine to begin with and let someone have the spot that actually wants it.
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I think the letters don't matter, I will be a doctor that is helping people on a regular basis. Its the knowledge that those letters are going to potentially close the door to positions where I could have a major impact. Right now I have no idea where I want to take my career in medicine, simply that I want to practice medicine in one of it's many forms. I know these are big "what ifs" but what if I want to make an impact in health care policy reform, what if I fall in love with a specialty that DOs have virtually no chance of matching in to, what if I decide that I want to work in research?
 
DGCT00 said:
You should probably stop trying to please your parents/mentors and instead focus on what will make you happy.
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This. Also consider all these people telling you otherwise usually don't have the first clue about about medical training other than MD=doctor. Don't make decisions based off peoples' ignorance...it is infinite.
 
And just so you know, I'm in a similar boat; a less competitive MCAT but a killer GPA and tons of clinical experience. I've interviewed at every DO school I've applied to so far but have been rejected by most of my MD possibilities. It was frustrating, and still is, but I know that I'm going to be a kick-ass doc no matter where I go. And to be honest, the more I talk to DO schools and students, the more solace I find in attending an osteopathic school.

Do what's going to make you happy. If I get rejected from every allo school and only get into one DO, I know I'll still be happy. In the end, when someone shows up in the ER during the big-one or they flipped their car over and shattered their leg or they come in with the tummy-ache or WHATEVER, they're not going to give the tiniest **** if I'm a DO or an MD. And thus, neither will I.
 
Bacchus said:
So what was your GPA/MCAT? "Average" this year will be less than average next year.
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Sorry I didn't mean to make it seem like this was a "Am I good enough for MD thread" more of a how do you mentally overcome knowing that certain doors are shut (are nearly so) to DOs.
 
ArtOfWar said:
Honestly the research I had done for applying to DO was looking at DO school websites, talking to the DOs I shadowed, and looking at the DO forum on SDN really attracted to DO schools. I don't want to make it seem like I don't think DO is great and I apologize re-reading what I wrote that is exactly what I said 🙁

Let me clarify my struggle is not with the philosophy or OMM or any of the things that differentiate DO's from MD's (I actually prefer the DO education) rather it is the societal constructs that trouble me. Constantly hearing from parents, co-workers, MD physician mentors that its great that I got in to a DO school but they are still holding out hope that I get in to an MD program.

I don't know how to convey that I am NOT a troll. Once day one of school starts I know that I won't look back and will set my nose to the grind stone and work to get a competitive residency. It's just dealing with the psychological aspect of feeling inferior AND simultaneously helpless to improve myself and show my worth until Sp=ept.
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Who cares what your parents, coworkers, and mentors say? Often, many are ignorant to certain facts, and that leads them to bias. Watch the news on any given day. Everywhere there are people with unfounded opinions.

But, good luck being a physician if you can't take the criticism with a grain of salt. Ignorant people will be telling you how wrong you are from time to time. Part of being a physician is being a leader, and part of being a leader is not sweating the small stuff, having the confidence to trudge forward despite the 'odds'.

In the end, it's your life. You know what's best for you.
 
ArtOfWar said:
I think the letters don't matter, I will be a doctor that is helping people on a regular basis. Its the knowledge that those letters are going to potentially close the door to positions where I could have a major impact. Right now I have no idea where I want to take my career in medicine, simply that I want to practice medicine in one of it's many forms. I know these are big "what ifs" but what if I want to make an impact in health care policy reform, what if I fall in love with a specialty that DOs have virtually no chance of matching in to, what if I decide that I want to work in research?
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Why do you think doors are being shut? Chances at some residencies may be statistically less, but there are usually AOA spots for those. Want to do research? You can do research as a DO, and several schools have DO/PhD/MS programs. If you think going to an MD school suddenly makes you competitive for Hopkins Dermatology residency, you're sorely mistaken.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
3.7 cGPA, 3.68 sGPA, 32 MCAT

Source: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...cgpa-3-68-sgpa-32-mcat.1035073/#post-14491456
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Thanks for answering for me :/ I am going to go to DO school, and I will appreciate that I was given the opportunity. The problem I am having is that I honestly have no idea where my career in medicine is going to go. There are countless issues that I want to tackle and have yet to decide the one that I am going to dedicate my life to. The DO students and physicians I have talked to have all admitted that there are some "closed" doors to DO's though this may change in the near future, that is the reality of the situation currently. It is the thought of falling in love with a cause and then not being able to fully effect change because other people are looking at the letters after my name.
 
medickdb said:
Who cares what your parents, coworkers, and mentors say? Often, many are ignorant to certain facts, and that leads them to bias. Watch the news on any given day. Everywhere there are people with unfounded opinions.

But, good luck being a physician if you can't take the criticism with a grain of salt. Ignorant people will be telling you how wrong you are from time to time. Part of being a physician is being a leader, and part of being a leader is not sweating the small stuff, having the confidence to trudge forward despite the 'odds'.

In the end, it's your life. You know what's best for you.
Click to expand...

This. So much this. I agree with you whole-heartedly that I shouldn't give a damn what those people think and I know I will get over it, the part that scares me is that the sometimes the people with the "unfounded opinions" are the ones that will be deciding whether you get this fellowship, research position, job, etc.
 
ArtOfWar said:
Thanks for answering for me :/ I am going to go to DO school, and I will appreciate that I was given the opportunity. The problem I am having is that I honestly have no idea where my career in medicine is going to go. There are countless issues that I want to tackle and have yet to decide the one that I am going to dedicate my life to. The DO students and physicians I have talked to have all admitted that there are some "closed" doors to DO's though this may change in the near future, that is the reality of the situation currently. It is the thought of falling in love with a cause and then not being able to fully effect change because other people are looking at the letters after my name.
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Same thing could happen after step 1 or during the match.

Again, if you are doubtful and consider you can legitimately earn a spot in a school where you'll be happy, go for it.
 
Btw thank you Dr. Kreiger (I never thought I would hear anyone say this ;p), medickdb, DGCT00, and Donk for your words they are really helping me grapple with this internal conflict. To everyone else, I apologize for making this seem like a troll post - it is not. We all have doubts at some point and I don't think that doubting your decision should lead you to abandon it. I doubted pursuing a career in medicine for a variety of reasons at various points throughout this long journey but having overcome those doubts my passion for pursuing a career in medicine could not be stronger.
 
ArtOfWar said:
Thanks for answering for me :/ I am going to go to DO school, and I will appreciate that I was given the opportunity. The problem I am having is that I honestly have no idea where my career in medicine is going to go. There are countless issues that I want to tackle and have yet to decide the one that I am going to dedicate my life to. The DO students and physicians I have talked to have all admitted that there are some "closed" doors to DO's though this may change in the near future, that is the reality of the situation currently. It is the thought of falling in love with a cause and then not being able to fully effect change because other people are looking at the letters after my name.
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Sorry, people were curious.

I shadowed a vascular surgeon who was highly respected in the hospital. No one knew he was a DO until I asked him about it. He loved his job and put in the hard work to get where he wanted.

I've met people who took 5+ years to get into an MD school.

Everyone has a different perspective on life and what they want. You're a grown adult and you decide how much you will let this issue affect you.

I was honored when I got accepted because I knew there were people with higher stats than me who drove 10+ hours to the interview only to be rejected for something stupid.

It's your life and follow what you want.
 
Based on your stats alone, you have a good chance at getting an MD acceptance if you take a year off. If you're willing to chance at least a year of being a physician (and the pay that comes with it) because you have the fear of your Rx pad saying "ArtOfWar, DO" and feeling inferior because of it, then take that year and apply to every MD school there is. When that day comes, though, I imagine you'll be far, far too busy to care.

I believe Sylvanthus has said he wishes he would have done that, in retrospect. You may want to search for that post for his reasoning if it helps you decide either way.
 
ArtOfWar said:
This. So much this. I agree with you whole-heartedly that I shouldn't give a damn what those people think and I know I will get over it, the part that scares me is that the sometimes the people with the "unfounded opinions" are the ones that will be deciding whether you get this fellowship, research position, job, etc.
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I understand. But, I know you know that life isn't fair. Do you really want to work for some ignorant, egotistical airhead? I'd rather find my own way.

Sure, some doors may be closed, but the same is true for MDs as well in certain regards. As bad as it sounds, networking often works in medicine just as it does in politics. My fiancee knows a DO who had his pick of a top residency spot simply because his dad could pull strings.

Do what makes you happy despite what anyone else has to say. If you feel limited, by all means wait another year.

Edit: Just so you know, I know of two trauma surgeons in Vegas who are DOs. The paramedic textbooks I used years ago were written by a highly regarded DO EM attending. Also, I started a thread a couple of weeks ago containing a list of some famous DOs.
 
Bill Brasky said:
I'd hate to go to school with someone who I knew felt they belonged somewhere "better" and wouldn't really want to work with them in years one and two. If you're going to look down your nose even a tiny bit at DO school, don't go.
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I apologize I did not mean to suggest that DOs are inferior to MDs though from everyone posts it seems that is obviosuly what I did. I am concerned with the problem of the prospects for DOs being inferior to MDs in terms of match and influential positions.
 
DoctorKrieger said:
Based on your stats alone, you have a good chance at getting an MD acceptance if you take a year off. If you're willing to chance at least a year of being a physician (and the pay that comes with it) because you have the fear of your Rx pad saying "ArtOfWar, DO" and feeling inferior because of it, then take that year and apply to every MD school there is. When that day comes, though, I imagine you'll be far, far too busy to care.

I believe Sylvanthus has said he wishes he would have done that, in retrospect. You may want to search for that post for his reasoning if it helps you decide either way.
Click to expand...

I have read many of Sylvanthus's posts and I believe that he was angry because he felt he was severely limited in his opportunities for residency and such because of the school he choose. Not to put words in his mouth, but it read as though he believed he couldn't reach his full potential because he went to a newer, smaller school.
 
ArtOfWar said:
Thanks for answering for me :/ I am going to go to DO school, and I will appreciate that I was given the opportunity. The problem I am having is that I honestly have no idea where my career in medicine is going to go. There are countless issues that I want to tackle and have yet to decide the one that I am going to dedicate my life to. The DO students and physicians I have talked to have all admitted that there are some "closed" doors to DO's though this may change in the near future, that is the reality of the situation currently. It is the thought of falling in love with a cause and then not being able to fully effect change because other people are looking at the letters after my name.
Click to expand...

Judging solely from your posts in this thread, I do not think you should enroll into an osteopathic medical school. I am not convinced that you are 'appreciative' of your acceptance. This is important to notice for yourself because when you start medical school - whether it be in a DO or MD program - you need to be in a place where you are not only happy but also 'pumped up' in order to do well. In your current state of mind, you are setting yourself up for disaster once school starts. Reapply next cycle...just my advice.
 
ArtOfWar said:
I apologize I did not mean to suggest that DOs are inferior to MDs though from everyone posts it seems that is obviosuly what I did. I am concerned with the problem of the prospects for DOs being inferior to MDs in terms of match and influential positions.
Click to expand...
What kind of influential positions.
 
DoctorKrieger said:
Based on your stats alone, you have a good chance at getting an MD acceptance if you take a year off. If you're willing to chance at least a year of being a physician (and the pay that comes with it) because you have the fear of your Rx pad saying "ArtOfWar, DO" and feeling inferior because of it, then take that year and apply to every MD school there is. When that day comes, though, I imagine you'll be far, far too busy to care.

I believe Sylvanthus has said he wishes he would have done that, in retrospect. You may want to search for that post for his reasoning if it helps you decide either way.
Click to expand...

I want to reiterate I don't care about the prestige debate between MD vs DO, I won't feel inferior because of it. However if I end up being passed on for "dream jobs/residencies/positions" because of the letters then I can't say I won't regret the decision. You hear constantly about people with identical step 1 scores and letters of rec having vastly different interview offers for residency - this is what I fear. I know that this is purely speculation and for the most part I think I might be overestimating the barriers - if this is the case would anyone be so kind as to point me towards resources that could help make me view more realistic.
 
DrHitchcraft said:
Judging solely from your posts in this thread, I do not think you should enroll into an osteopathic medical school. I am not convinced that you are 'appreciative' of your acceptance. This is important to notice for yourself because when you start medical school - whether it be in a DO or MD program - you need to be in a place where you are not only happy but also 'pumped up' in order to do well. In your current state of mind, you are setting yourself up for disaster once school starts. Reapply next cycle...just my advice.
Click to expand...

It is difficult to convey appreciation in words, but I truly am and have been overjoyed to attend a DO school, it is just these past few days I have had a lot of free time on my hands and have gotten this notion in my head that becoming a DO will limit my opportunities.

NontradCA said:
What kind of influential positions.
Click to expand...

I am extremely interested in health care access issues and I think that I may one day want to serve on the various committees that advise the government on the numerous topics in this category. Outside of influential positions, attractive fellowships and residencies can be out of reach.
 
ArtOfWar said:
Do you mind clarifying what you mean by this point.
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You can fall in love with dermatology but if your step 1 isn't good, it isn't going to happen. You can want to do ENT, but if you don't match, you won't. Yes, DO may limit you from some stuff, but you could have been limited at the stage of step 1 or match.

You keep mentioning all this other stuff you want to do. Why in the world did you waste your time with DO school? You need to re-evaluate what's important to you and take action from there.
 
ArtOfWar said:
Honestly the research I had done for applying to DO was looking at DO school websites, talking to the DOs I shadowed, and looking at the DO forum on SDN really attracted to DO schools. I don't want to make it seem like I don't think DO is great and I apologize re-reading what I wrote that is exactly what I said 🙁

Let me clarify my struggle is not with the philosophy or OMM or any of the things that differentiate DO's from MD's (I actually prefer the DO education) rather it is the societal constructs that trouble me. Constantly hearing from parents, co-workers, MD physician mentors that its great that I got in to a DO school but they are still holding out hope that I get in to an MD program.

I don't know how to convey that I am NOT a troll. Once day one of school starts I know that I won't look back and will set my nose to the grind stone and work to get a competitive residency. It's just dealing with the psychological aspect of feeling inferior AND simultaneously helpless to improve myself and show my worth until Sp=ept.
Click to expand...
"Societal constructs" which you are perpetuating by writing posts like these. remember, you are part of society, and you are part of the problem/solution. if you don't want DO schools to be looked down upon, start fixing it today by giving it the proper respect it deserves.
 
ArtOfWar said:
I have read many of Sylvanthus's posts and I believe that he was angry because he felt he was severely limited in his opportunities for residency and such because of the school he choose. Not to put words in his mouth, but it read as though he believed he couldn't reach his full potential because he went to a newer, smaller school.
Click to expand...

I guess I can't remember for sure. Just thought that might provide another side to consider. I also believe he got a residency he wanted, but was kind of upset that he had to go through more hoops than an MD would have.

If you didn't want to infer DOs aren't up to par with MDs, you should have titled your thread differently. Should you decide to matriculate, rest assured you will have plenty of classmates that said no to MD acceptances.

It's way too early for you to say you have a clue about what residency you want to do. If you still want to go to a 'top' program (what does that even mean, anyway?) when you're applying for residency, being a DO can certainly be a hindrance. But look realistically at that scenario: what are your chances of that coming out of an MD school? Half a percent? Say being a DO knocks that down to 0.25%. Do your chances really change significantly? Yet you have chances at an AOA residency that MDs can't even apply for. The difference would be 'prestige' of the residency program, which leads back to the whole inferior perception you are struggling with. You learn the same stuff, have the same capabilities, but are still eternally worried about some concept of 'prestige?'

If you still feel this way the day before your DO deposits are due, you might ought to sit out and wait for the 'greener' pastures of the MD world.
 
ArtOfWar said:
It is difficult to convey appreciation in words, but I truly am and have been overjoyed to attend a DO school, it is just these past few days I have had a lot of free time on my hands and have gotten this notion in my head that becoming a DO will limit my opportunities.



I am extremely interested in health care access issues and I think that I may one day want to serve on the various committees that advise the government on the numerous topics in this category. Outside of influential positions, attractive fellowships and residencies can be out of reach.
Click to expand...
ArtOfWar said:
It is difficult to convey appreciation in words, but I truly am and have been overjoyed to attend a DO school, it is just these past few days I have had a lot of free time on my hands and have gotten this notion in my head that becoming a DO will limit my opportunities.



I am extremely interested in health care access issues and I think that I may one day want to serve on the various committees that advise the government on the numerous topics in this category. Outside of influential positions, attractive fellowships and residencies can be out of reach.
Click to expand...

I don't think preventative med/mph is shut out to DOs.
 
guylewis said:
"Societal constructs" which you are perpetuating by writing posts like these. remember, you are part of society, and you are part of the problem/solution. if you don't want DO schools to be looked down upon, start fixing it today by giving it the proper respect it deserves.
Click to expand...

Once again I apologize for making it seem like DOs are inferior, they are not.

DoctorKrieger said:
I guess I can't remember for sure. Just thought that might provide another side to consider. I also believe he got a residency he wanted, but was kind of upset that he had to go through more hoops than an MD would have.

If you didn't want to infer DOs aren't up to par with MDs, you should have titled your thread differently. Should you decide to matriculate, rest assured you will have plenty of classmates that said no to MD acceptances.

It's way too early for you to say you have a clue about what residency you want to do. If you still want to go to a 'top' program (what does that even mean, anyway?) when you're applying for residency, being a DO can certainly be a hindrance. But look realistically at that scenario: what are your chances of that coming out of an MD school? Half a percent? Say being a DO knocks that down to 0.25%. Do your chances really change significantly? Yet you have chances at an AOA residency that MDs can't even apply for. The difference would be 'prestige' of the residency program, which leads back to the whole inferior perception you are struggling with. You learn the same stuff, have the same capabilities, but are still eternally worried about some concept of 'prestige?'

If you still feel this way the day before your DO deposits are due, you might ought to sit out and wait for the 'greener' pastures of the MD world.
Click to expand...

Sorry about the title this was the first time I really doubted becoming a DO and was panicking (a lot). I came here for reassurance - you have provided that. I may have had a quick chat with my mentor over the past few moments 😛 which helped me crystallize my thoughts. I apologize to everyone I offended DOs are amazing and I will be proud to become one! I guess I'm realizing that rather than sit here and complain on a message board about how my opportunities are limited by becoming a DO I should be focusing on how to prepare myself to rock it in school, step 1s, residency, and beyond. Rather than sit here and complain about how it is rare for a DO to become a ________ I should be figuring out how I will become the exception to the rule.

Thank you all for your constructive thoughts.
 
ArtOfWar said:
This. So much this. I agree with you whole-heartedly that I shouldn't give a damn what those people think and I know I will get over it, the part that scares me is that the sometimes the people with the "unfounded opinions" are the ones that will be deciding whether you get this fellowship, research position, job, etc.
Click to expand...
Your stats are ok for MD... If you really want MD and you have fixed what was wrong with your application, I think you should decline the DO acceptances reapply MD early next cycle. At the end you will be happy...
 
BestDoctorEver said:
Your stats are ok for MD... If you really want MD and you have fixed what was wrong with your application, I think you should decline the DO acceptances reapply MD early next cycle. At the end you will be happy...
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Thank you for your thoughts but honestly after hearing a few people's thoughts in this thread and through self-reflection my doubts were completely unfounded. I was just having a panic moment.
 
ArtOfWar said:
I want to reiterate I don't care about the prestige debate between MD vs DO, I won't feel inferior because of it. However if I end up being passed on for "dream jobs/residencies/positions" because of the letters then I can't say I won't regret the decision. You hear constantly about people with identical step 1 scores and letters of rec having vastly different interview offers for residency - this is what I fear. I know that this is purely speculation and for the most part I think I might be overestimating the barriers - if this is the case would anyone be so kind as to point me towards resources that could help make me view more realistic.
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Your concerns are legitimate... I definitely think you should decline the DO acceptances and reapply next cycle... I have been in healthcare for a few years now and I only see ONE instance in which a patient said he did not want a DO. But the MD they gave him was someone who was educated outside of the US (I think it was Peru) Lol...
 
BestDoctorEver said:
Your concerns are legitimate... I definitely think you should decline the DO acceptances and reapply next cycle... I have been in healthcare for a few years now and I only see ONE instance in which a patient said he did not want a DO. But the MD they gave him was someone who was educated outside of the US (I think it was Peru) Lol...
Click to expand...

I agree that from what I have posted here it may seem like I am genuinely enthralled with becoming a DO, but in reality my concerns though very real are not as substantial as I made them out to be. In all honesty I am excited to become a DO.
 
ArtOfWar said:
Thank you for your thoughts but honestly after hearing a few people's thoughts in this thread and through self-reflection my doubts were completely unfounded. I was just having a panic moment.
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You have to understand this is a DO forum i.e. most people here are gung ho about DO... The fact is that DO is plan B for most in here. You have the stats to get into MD, which is your plan A and if you think you can fix what was wrong with your application, you should definitely wait a year and reapply. One year is not a big deal in the grand scheme of thing. Maximize your full potential and chances, and don't worry about people who think you have a sense of superiority. You are doing that for YOURSELF and none else.
 
BestDoctorEver said:
You have to understand this is a DO forum i.e. most people here are gung ho about DO... The fact is that DO is plan B for most in here. You have the stats to get into MD, which is your plan A and if you think you can fix what was wrong with your application, you should definitely wait a year and reapply. One year is not a big deal in the grand scheme of thing. Maximize your full potential and chances, and don't worry about people who think you have a sense of superiority. You are doing that for YOURSELF and none else.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your thoughts, but I think I can still reach my full potential if I become a DO, it'll take a a lot more work but it is still possible.
 
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