Not moonlighting during residency?

[shahseh22]

I was curious if there were people who did not moonlight at all during residency? It's very difficult to get opportunities in my program for various reasons. Going outside of my city, is a possibility but I don't know if it is worth it or not. I figure maybe if I would spend more time reading and focusing on my own thing, the opportunities would come after I finish and start my job.

If you did not moonlight during residency, do you think you still turned out alright? FYI, I am a third year who is going to go into Child Psych.

Thanks

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[TexasPhysician]

There is nothing wrong with not moonlighting. I’d say that about 50% of the graduates from my program moonlight.

 

[SourceOfDenial]

You'll be fine without it--but moonlighting can be an invaluable learning experience in residency. I did moonlighting work consistently for the last two years in residency and count it as one of the most important things I did. I would definitely recommend it--you could do some adult moonlighting during your fellowship if you wished.

 

[Mass Effect]

Can you moonlight in-house? At my program, opportunities are plentiful.

 

[Psychotic]

I will be finishing residency in a few months and I haven't done any moonlighting. Maybe I missed out of something, maybe not, but I chose to not do it. Most of the peers that I know who moonlight either really need the extra money, or they are coerced by their program (like child fellows I know) to take weekend and night call, holiday call, etc., because the program is shorthanded due to an exodus of attendings. So many of the people I know who moonlight are somewhat resentful that they need to do it (money) or are forced to do it - not exactly a happy thing.

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

I will be finishing residency in a few months and I haven't done any moonlighting. Maybe I missed out of something, maybe not, but I chose to not do it. Most of the peers that I know who moonlight either really need the extra money, or they are coerced by their program (like child fellows I know) to take weekend and night call, holiday call, etc., because the program is shorthanded due to an exodus of attendings. So many of the people I know who moonlight are somewhat resentful that they need to do it (money) or are forced to do it - not exactly a happy thing.

While I think the gap probably closes within a few years of practice, it seems as though the moonlighting folks in my program have a definite upper hand. This makes sense. You’re working autonomously under attending conditions. Sometimes those gigs are very busy (and consequently lucrative), making the experience you get even more valuable. It also reduces the anxiety of going out into real practice. That’s about it. I think it is great if you can manage it.

I should note that all residents doing it in my program are free to do so. Also... the more cush gigs are less valuable from a learning standpoint, but are also easier to manage.

 

[Bartelby]

I did not moonlight. That has caused no problems for me whatsoever in attending life.

 

[NickNaylor]

Moonlighting in our program is fairly rare by resident choice. For most of the year this year I was the only one in my class of 15 that was moonlighting, and there were only 1 or 2 residents in the class above us that I know of that did any consistent moonlighting. We have no internal moonlighting available so the bar required to find a position and get work is minimally higher compared to those with those opportunities.

I didn’t need the money, but the extra money was nice (I just about doubled my residency salary in about 5 months) and I thought that the educational part of the experience was very worthwhile. It was also nice to see how a non-academic, for-profit system operated out in the world.

I don’t think moonlighting is by any means a requirement, but it was definitely a great experience that I’m very happy to have done.

 

[Monocles]

Will be a pgy-3 next year with zero plans of moonlighting. I value my time more than money... I already make enough to buy all the new switch games I want, if only I had more time to play them...

 

[WingedOx]

You'll be fine without it--but moonlighting can be an invaluable learning experience in residency. I did moonlighting work consistently for the last two years in residency and count it as one of the most important things I did. I would definitely recommend it--you could do some adult moonlighting during your fellowship if you wished.

As a counterpoint, the moonlighting I did was almost hilariously uneducational, but prevented me from having to leave $$ on my credit cards.

 

[Psychotic]

While I think the gap probably closes within a few years of practice, it seems as though the moonlighting folks in my program have a definite upper hand. This makes sense. You’re working autonomously under attending conditions. Sometimes those gigs are very busy (and consequently lucrative), making the experience you get even more valuable. It also reduces the anxiety of going out into real practice. That’s about it. I think it is great if you can manage it.

I should note that all residents doing it in my program are free to do so. Also... the more cush gigs are less valuable from a learning standpoint, but are also easier to manage.

Define "upper hand." If you mean they have an advantage entering the post residency job market, I see zero evidence of it. So what do you mean?

 

[Monocles]

or they are coerced by their program (like child fellows I know) to take weekend and night call, holiday call, etc., because the program is shorthanded due to an exodus of attendings.

How exactly do they coerce you into doing this?? Technically isn't "coerced moonlighting" just call? :0

 

[Psychotic]

How exactly do they coerce you into doing this?? Technically isn't "coerced moonlighting" just call? :0

Not sure what it is or what to call it, really. All I know is I have friends in their 5th and final year of a child fellowship, and they are required to do lots of nasty hours call at obscenely low "moonlighting" pay. I don't know if that is what they signed up for or not, but I know they are at least paid (a pittance) for the call, and they can't refuse it. Could also be that I have no idea how this is handled at other programs...I am not in their program, and have no idea how these programs operate other than what I see happening to friends.

All I know is that in my 4th year general psych program, I have no call, and I have done no moonlighting; even 3rd year call was defined and limited. Is it different in child psych fellowships? Do people typically have to do call both years of child fellowship?

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

Define "upper hand." If you mean they have an advantage entering the post residency job market, I see zero evidence of it. So what do you mean?

I meant... do more, see more, work more results in a more knowledgeable clinician. However, residency should (adequately) prepare you, that’s the point. But you also bring up a good point. Having the experience adds to your CV, whether you have an evidence based finding or not.

In my area, a weekend of moonlighting is $5500 before taxes with all travel and licensing expenses paid, so many go for it. It is all based on the resident’s desire though. Most want to do it and enjoy it.

 

[FlowRate]

Very few people moonlight during PGY-3 at our program. Partially because we still have a good bit of call and also because half of the PGY-3 year is very busy. A good number of people moonlight in PGY-4.

 

[hamstergang]

How exactly do they coerce you into doing this?? Technically isn't "coerced moonlighting" just call? :0

At my CAP fellowship, there was paid in-house moonlighting on the weekends for very little money. If all the fellows couldn't keep this covered, I'm told it would have become unpaid call.

 

[Psychotic]

At my CAP fellowship, there was paid in-house moonlighting on the weekends for very little money. If all the fellows couldn't keep this covered, I'm told it would have become unpaid call.

This sounds a lot like what my friends are describing. And it was crappy call on, like Thanksgiving, XMAS day, etc. And the pay is disgustingly low. So either everyone "pull together" and someone take it as moonlighting at very low pay, or at random someone will be forced to do it as unpaid call. Hence my use of the phrase "coerced" moonlighting. There are, to say the least, huge morale problems in this fellowship...

 

[Monocles]

This sounds a lot like what my friends are describing. And it was crappy call on, like Thanksgiving, XMAS day, etc. And the pay is disgustingly low. So either everyone "pull together" and someone take it as moonlighting at very low pay, or at random someone will be forced to do it as unpaid call. Hence my use of the phrase "coerced" moonlighting. There are, to say the least, huge morale problems in this fellowship...

Name and shame so I can avoid applying?

 

[placeboconspiracy]

I meant... do more, see more, work more results in a more knowledgeable clinician. However, residency should (adequately) prepare you, that’s the point. But you also bring up a good point. Having the experience adds to your CV, whether you have an evidence based finding or not.

In my area, a weekend of moonlighting is $5500 before taxes with all travel and licensing expenses paid, so many go for it. It is all based on the resident’s desire though. Most want to do it and enjoy it.

That sounds like a high rate, what area are you based in? What were the hours like during that weekend?

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

That sounds like a high rate, what area are you based in? What were the hours like during that weekend?

Rural Midwest. Some gigs with 5 beds, some with 40 and everything in between . The hours depend on the beds, obviously. Some pretty unbelievable situations out there.

 

[Attending1985]

I was curious if there were people who did not moonlight at all during residency? It's very difficult to get opportunities in my program for various reasons. Going outside of my city, is a possibility but I don't know if it is worth it or not. I figure maybe if I would spend more time reading and focusing on my own thing, the opportunities would come after I finish and start my job.

If you did not moonlight during residency, do you think you still turned out alright? FYI, I am a third year who is going to go into Child Psych.

Thanks

I didn’t moonlight. I had a kid during residency and hated being away from her all the time so I devoted all my free time to family and didn’t moonlight. No regrets and it didn’t effect me negatively.