Not ranking every interview site?

[NERDY]

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Hi Everyone, hope the interview season went well. What is the harm of ranking every place, since we get 20 included ranks as a solo match applicant? I know most of us will get one of our top choices but I rather get an EM residency spot some where than no job at all! Why do some people not rank every place just to be safe? Just wondering if I missing some logic as I plan to rank every place. Thanks. Good luck.

 

[migm]

Shouldn't rank a place if you would be more unhappy matching there vs not matching at all

 

[Akail]

I think the overwhelming majority of people rank every program. From my
Understanding, for someone to not rank a program they interviewed at there's usually some unforgiving quality (bad interview, irreconcilable location for the SO, etc.).

 

[The White Coat Investor]

As I recall after a certain point it costs money to rank more. 15 I think.

 

[survivordo]

I say rank 'em all. Likely it will never come into play but if you don't match the first time around what do you think you chances are of matching the second? I'm sure there is actual data on this but my guess is low.

Survivor DO

 

[winkleweizen]

As I recall after a certain point it costs money to rank more. 15 I think.

20 actually, but yup

 

[gman33]

If you get a terrible feeling about some place, I'd think about not ranking the program.
Also there could be geographic issues for a SO that you just can't get past.

I'd rank everywhere that you would be remotely happy to match at.

If you'd like to take your chances with SOAP into something else (like not EM), maybe you take a chance.

 

[b-real]

Also keep in mind that last year there were no EM spots available in the SOAP. Like others have said, the magic question you should ask yourself is whether you would rather not match into EM at all than go to a particular residency. If the answer is yes, than go ahead and drop that program from your list.

 

[FSU2013]

I'm not ranking 1 program. I'm not going to say where, but I will say that it is considered a "top" program.

My argument:

I'd still be ranking 12. I have really good numbers and got great feedback from the program that will be 1 or 2.

I hated the area. I didn't know before hand because I didn't do enough research, but it wasn't super safe and I wouldn't want my wife to have to live there. Plus, it's super far from home.

Got a bad vibe from the program - definitely not a good "fit"

One resident said that a couple rotations were complete jokes. I've heard residents say "yea, ortho month is chill" or "on OB we just deliver for a couple hours then go home" at other programs - that's fine. We should get down time. But at this program, one dude was like "yea, I don't know where that floor is, you could do international med that month if you wanted to....basically anything offservice is vacation"

It was a 4 year program.

My logic is this:

If I don't match at my top 12, I won't match here. I have no ties to the area and it's an elite program. Since its a 4 year program, I could theoretically do an internship then do a full 3 yr program and finish at the same time. Lastly, I'd wager that there will be spots in the soap this year...with how many interviews some people have gone on, I wouldn't be surprised if there are good programs that don't fill.

Again, this is just me and its just 1 program. My advisor said he was cool with it and, like I said, if my top 12 don't want me, it means something went horribly wrong I'm way more of a d-bag than I could fathom.

 

[DB2013EM]

I interviewed at 13. Im ranking 13. I don't want to go to my bottom 3. But, I want to be an Emergency Medicine Physician more than any other specialty, by FAR.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

My logic is this:

If I don't match at my top 12, I won't match here. I have no ties to the area and it's an elite program. Since its a 4 year program, I could theoretically do an internship then do a full 3 yr program and finish at the same time. Lastly, I'd wager that there will be spots in the soap this year...with how many interviews some people have gone on, I wouldn't be surprised if there are good programs that don't fill.

I'm by far no expert on the topic of residency funding but I'd research into it because if you did one year somewhere else then transferred to a 3 year EM program, I think you'd be without funding your final year.

 

[migm]

I interviewed at 13. Im ranking 13. I don't want to go to my bottom 3. But, I want to be an Emergency Medicine Physician more than any other specialty, by FAR.

this

 

[teacherman]

I interviewed at 13. Im ranking 13. I don't want to go to my bottom 3. But, I want to be an Emergency Medicine Physician more than any other specialty, by FAR.

👍 I also am ranking all 13. Also good that I didn't hate anywhere that I went. I also hope that 13 interviews in the year 2013 is somehow lucky!

 

[Akail]

What's the over/under on SOAP EM spots this year? I'm going to say 7.

 

[NERDY]

Thanks for the input. I doubt there will be very many if any EM spots left in the SOAP.

 

[engineeredout]

I applied DO and MD. I'm going to enter the DO match, and then the MD if it comes to it. I am not ranking one DO program, because I decided I'd rather risk the MD match than go there.

 

[fahimaz7]

I applied DO and MD. I'm going to enter the DO match, and then the MD if it comes to it. I am not ranking one DO program, because I decided I'd rather risk the MD match than go there.

Don't you find out the results of the DO match after the date deadline for the MD match?

 

[DB2013EM]

DO match comes out Feb 11. NRMP Deadline to Certify Feb 20. If you match in DO, you automatically pull out of NRMP

 

[Akail]

I applied DO and MD. I'm going to enter the DO match, and then the MD if it comes to it. I am not ranking one DO program, because I decided I'd rather risk the MD match than go there.

Just curious, did you like the DO programs as much as the MD programs you interviewed at or do you prefer one more than the other?

 

[DB2013EM]

I applied DO and MD. I'm going to enter the DO match, and then the MD if it comes to it. I am not ranking one DO program, because I decided I'd rather risk the MD match than go there.

your grammar confuses me.

 

[Apollyon]

your grammar confuses me.

The grammar is correct. I am not clear as to what is confusing.

 

[DB2013EM]

The grammar is correct. I am not clear as to what is confusing.

"I applied DO and MD."

He applied to both types of programs.

" I'm going to enter the DO match, and then the MD if it comes to it."

Hes entering both the NMS and the NRMP

"I am not ranking one DO program, because I decided I'd rather risk the MD match than go there. "

So hes not ranking a DO program? Then why enter the DO Match?

 

[FMtoEM]

He ranked DO programs. He'd rather match in an MD program before going to that 1 DO program he did not rank.

 

[DB2013EM]

He ranked DO programs. He'd rather match in an MD program before going to that 1 DO program he did not rank.

OOOOH

I interpreted it as I did not rank ANY DO programs, or like I did not rank a single DO program.

Thanks

Carry on.

 

[Apollyon]

English grammar stabbed you there - the sentence, while correct, could have been interpreted in another manner, which you did.

It's all good!

 

[fahimaz7]

So by entering the DO match, aren't you obligated to attend a program if you match there? I think the DO list certification deadline is this week... which means if you enter it and rank DO programs them you are basically taking yourself out of running for the MD match?

The only reason I care is b/c I have a good friend who is a MS3 at a DO school in here in my state who is asking...

 

[Akail]

So by entering the DO match, aren't you obligated to attend a program if you match there? I think the DO list certification deadline is this week... which means if you enter it and rank DO programs them you are basically taking yourself out of running for the MD match?

The only reason I care is b/c I have a good friend who is a MS3 at a DO school in here in my state who is asking...

I think if you match DO you're out of the MD match automatically. OP is using the MD match as a backup in case he doesn't match DO, if I'm correct?

 

[ReallyScared]

I will put myself out there a little as I will not be ranking all the programs I interviewed with. My situation is a little different because my husband is finishing a postdoc and needs to find a job. I applied to 38 programs, got 32 offers, went on 8 ultimately. I disliked 2 of those 8. Right now, we are in a position to choose between 2 cities based on his prospects, which leaves me 2-3 programs. One of those programs is in a city that would be best for him job wise, but is probably #5 for me right now out of 6. The program was ok for me but I just didn't care for the city and got a strange vibe from the PD and two of my other interiewers. I won't be able to rank my top program at all because he can't find a job in that city. I envy all of you who can truly follow your heart during this process.

 

[winkleweizen]

I will put myself out there a little as I will not be ranking all the programs I interviewed with. My situation is a little different because my husband is finishing a postdoc and needs to find a job. I applied to 38 programs, got 32 offers, went on 8 ultimately. I disliked 2 of those 8. Right now, we are in a position to choose between 2 cities based on his prospects, which leaves me 2-3 programs. One of those programs is in a city that would be best for him job wise, but is probably #5 for me right now out of 6. The program was ok for me but I just didn't care for the city and got a strange vibe from the PD and two of my other interiewers. I won't be able to rank my top program at all because he can't find a job in that city. I envy all of you who can truly follow your heart during this process.

Well arent you following your heart as well? 😉 If not, divorces are simple enough these days.

 

[Bostonredsox]

DO match comes out Feb 11. NRMP Deadline to Certify Feb 20. If you match in DO, you automatically pull out of NRMP

This, is why I am IM/CC now. Had a bazillion DO interviews. Wanted to go to one of 3 MD spots. New I would get a slot if I stayed in DO match. Withdrew. Did not match MD. Went into IM with CC to follow. Was the best thing that ever happened to me (I don't do sick kids). I went into med school wanting EM and EM only. Everything happens for a reason, you never know how things wil change for you.

 

[SserPrun95]

I think if you match DO you're out of the MD match automatically. OP is using the MD match as a backup in case he doesn't match DO, if I'm correct?

I was asking a DO resident about it a few days ago and unless something has changed this is how it works. Seems like kinda a bum rap and really ties your hands.

 

[eastcoastEM]

I applied to 38 programs, got 32 offers, went on 8 ultimately. .

Good God, I am full of WTF. I applied to ~38, and only got 10 interview offers, went on 9. Derm-level board scores, plenty of honors, Sr AOA, no red flags/disciplinary/missed years, etc. I was expecting 20+ offers.

I'm considering not ranking one program because the city sucks and because my number of interview offers was so humbling/disheartening (relative to the work I've put in - I know big-picture it could be a lot worse) that I'm questioning whether somehow the 28 programs that denied/never contacted me saw something to make them think I'm wrong for EM. If I go past my #8, then it would confirm for me that EM is wrong for me, and I'd rather scramble into surgery or go back to my pre-med-school job than force myself into a specialty where I can't even get in my top 8.

Realistically I expect to match in my top 2 or 3, but this process has been a terrible kick in the droopies. End vent. F**k.

 

[NERDY]

Was your application late? Did you only apply to "upper tier" programs?
Any issues in your letters?

Good God, I am full of WTF. I applied to ~38, and only got 10 interview offers, went on 9. Derm-level board scores, plenty of honors, Sr AOA, no red flags/disciplinary/missed years, etc. I was expecting 20+ offers.

I'm considering not ranking one program because the city sucks and because my number of interview offers was so humbling/disheartening (relative to the work I've put in - I know big-picture it could be a lot worse) that I'm questioning whether somehow the 28 programs that denied/never contacted me saw something to make them think I'm wrong for EM. If I go past my #8, then it would confirm for me that EM is wrong for me, and I'd rather scramble into surgery or go back to my pre-med-school job than force myself into a specialty where I can't even get in my top 8.

Realistically I expect to match in my top 2 or 3, but this process has been a terrible kick in the droopies. End vent. F**k.

 

[dally1025]

I will put myself out there a little as I will not be ranking all the programs I interviewed with. My situation is a little different because my husband is finishing a postdoc and needs to find a job. I applied to 38 programs, got 32 offers, went on 8 ultimately. I disliked 2 of those 8. Right now, we are in a position to choose between 2 cities based on his prospects, which leaves me 2-3 programs. One of those programs is in a city that would be best for him job wise, but is probably #5 for me right now out of 6. The program was ok for me but I just didn't care for the city and got a strange vibe from the PD and two of my other interiewers. I won't be able to rank my top program at all because he can't find a job in that city. I envy all of you who can truly follow your heart during this process.

I am in a very similar situation... My current number 6 is one that would be somewhere in my top 3 and I am not in love with my numbers 3 & 4. Hoping for my top 2 because after that I am ranking programs that I'm not in love with. Part of me wishes we could couples match with post docs! Best of luck to you both!

 

[eastcoastEM]

Was your application late? Did you only apply to "upper tier" programs?
Any issues in your letters?

Nah, I got complemented on each aspect of my application at some point along the trail (deans letter, letters, away letter, scores, grades, previous experience was "the most interesting I've seen", "no fluff in your CV", etc). I applied to some ivy/big-ish names that I didn't get a single one of, but other rejections included UAB, tampa, UVA, dallas, austin, wake, unc, etc. (throws hands up).

Sorry to hijack. Long story short, I will probably not rank my #9 - out of interview season bitterness. There is a fairly new less-competitive program in my top 3 so I'm not so worried about going very far down my list.

 

[jbar]

There was one place I didn't rank. Yes I really wanted to be an EM physician, and maybe I would have rather gone there than not matched. But my logic was "I did 13 interviews, would I have been comfortable with my chances just having done 12 interviews?" The answer was yes, so there was no statistical difference in not ranking number 13 and only having interviewed at 12.

I think some of it depends on your stats. If you know you are a competitive applicant and you did a reasonable number of interviews, not ranking somewhere is no big deal. But if you know you had to do 120 applications to get those 13 interviews because you are a weaker applicant, then I would rank every single place.

 

[migm]

Something to be said for plain old bad luck in this process

 

[NERDY]

Something to be said for plain old bad luck in this process

agreed and random-ness!

 

[Akail]

.

 

[engineeredout]

Don't you find out the results of the DO match after the date deadline for the MD match?

No, as someone said above, AOA match day is Feb. 11th, and the MD match list is due on the 20th.

OOOOH

I interpreted it as I did not rank ANY DO programs, or like I did not rank a single DO program.

Thanks

Carry on.

No problem. Didn't mean to cause a grammar war.

Just curious, did you like the DO programs as much as the MD programs you interviewed at or do you prefer one more than the other?

Honestly, at first I wasn't planning on applying to many DO programs. I only ended up doing it because I'm in the couples match. I had an equal amount of DO and MD interviews, and this is what I have to say about the DO Vs MD places:

There are excellent DO EM residencies
There are crappy DO EM residencies
There are excellent MD EM residencies
There are crappy MD EM residencies

... at least in my opinion. Ideally, if the matches were combined, I would have been able to put together a list based on my favorite programs from across the spectrum, and it would be a complete mix.

If I had to give a piece of advice, I'd say don't write off the DO programs just because you assume they're as back-asswards as the AOA and inferior to MD programs. There are some really great programs out there, and I would be happy in a lot of them.

 

[EMmotherhen]

I'm by far no expert on the topic of residency funding but I'd research into it because if you did one year somewhere else then transferred to a 3 year EM program, I think you'd be without funding your final year.

If the EM program you desire is 3 yrs duration then you could be an intern in a 4-yr program elsewhere and transfer with 3 yrs ACGME funding remaining. If you begin a 3-yr program elsewhere then you will be short one year of funding. However, some programs have large enough budgets that they can pay your last year's salary out of pocket so do your research carefully.