I'm starting to get a little worried about getting LORs because I've never really developed relationships with any professors. I'm doing very well in a small major, my profs seem to like me, but I'm not friends with any of them. I've rarely needed office hours, so I've not really formed any relationships. I fear that any LOR I get will be pretty tepid. To top it all off, I'm on the young side, and I don't know how to shoot the breeze with a 60 yo PDE professor (please, no comparisons to shooting the breeze in medicine).
Not really wowing professors?
- Thread starter zinciest
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 696
- Reaction score
- 0
Well if you don't know them well, then I say you should start visiting them during office hours and impress them. I'm sure they have had many students come through that do well, but do you stick out? They might know you, but their LOR won't have much depth or detail.
Impress them how? So I should just bring in my HW and show them how well I can do it? That doesn't sound like a good strategy.
do you have social skills? if so, it's really not hard to develop some rapport and to demonstrate you are making an effort and performing well in the class.
Maybe it's the culture of my school, or the classes I'm taking, but the professors are very inaccessible. It's pretty clear that office hours are for the sole purpose of homework help. Maybe my situation is a little different in that my major has 0 other premeds, and these professors have likely never written a LOR for medical school. To reiterate, my profs like me, I do above average in their classes, but I've never developed the super deep relationship that other people on SDN talk about.
Surely there must be other people who have felt the same way.
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 696
- Reaction score
- 0
They may not have other pre-meds in their dept, but they still write LORs for jobs, grad schools, etc...Also, I highly doubt they are "very inaccessible"...make an effort
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2007
- Messages
- 3,924
- Reaction score
- 13
Most schools feel like that to some degree for many or most students. Step out and make that professor want to know you. If you are doing well, tutor students who aren't. Be an advocate for your peers. Seek to further the prof's goals in class. Ask to TA next semester. Ask to do research with your professors. There really are a hundred plus different ways to build rapport with an instructor. You simply need to figure which one(s) will work for each faculty member. Also, if you don't succeed with one, don't worry too much about it. You can always seek out another. We all sometimes screw up or don't quite make as good an impression as we hope to. I know I have, and I'd say 95-99+% of my (former and current) professors really like me but there are 1 or 2 that have been tougher to build a relationship with or that I've felt a cold shoulder from once or twice or been unsure about. You just have to figure out what works on a per-person basis. Something is bound to get to them, though -- even the least "social" or "inviting" personalities!
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2009
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 1
First, does your school have some type of pre-health committee that writes letters of recommendation?
Second, most professors have been getting requests for lor's from dozens of students every semester for the past however many years. What most of them have learned to do is to have a pre-made form and all they do is insert your name, maybe your grade and send it off.
I never formed any relationships with my professors but they were all willing to write a lor.
What subject is your major? Must be non-science related if there aren't any other premeds... So obviously this will depend on the subject - but take an interest in something closely related to your major but not necessarily covered in class. Find an interesting article or something that would make a good conversation topic, and bring it to your professor and ask for their opinion, or tell them that you're really interested in this and could they recommend some other reading material. Or find a problem that wasn't assigned for homework that's more challenging, and ask them to go over it with you. Show an interest in learning as much as you can on a particular topic, as opposed to learning just what is necessary for the course. This will make you stand out. Professors usually love talking about their area of expertise, even if it's a little hard to crack them at first. Then once you've broken the ice a little, it will be easier to build more of a relationship so they can get to know you.
I don't want to be too specific because it's a pretty rare major, but it's a math degree with a lot of engineering theory. The rest of your advice is really good. Thanks.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 49
- Reaction score
- 0
I have the same problem...its hard to get to know professors in large science classes when you don't have difficulty with the work...like they have the time to shoot the breeze with random premeds who wander into their office hours when other students need help? and since the other posters are pretty much implying that you and I are some kind of socially inept *****s, I'll tell you what I was told to do by the woman who is compiling and signing off on my committee letter (who I happen to be friends with because I have excuses to meet with her all the time...just for the record 🙂 )
Before all the profs who are doing your committee letter meet, write up a mini-resume for them of things you have done (not actually resume format, just some sentences), so they have something interesting and relevant to write about you. If your school doesn't do the committee letter, just give it to them individually.
Obviously I would suggest getting to know at least SOME of the profs personally, which is much easier to do in small classes. Just start with small talk on your way in/out of class, you'll find that with most profs it will escalate. They usually love talking with us. Good luck
Before all the profs who are doing your committee letter meet, write up a mini-resume for them of things you have done (not actually resume format, just some sentences), so they have something interesting and relevant to write about you. If your school doesn't do the committee letter, just give it to them individually.
Obviously I would suggest getting to know at least SOME of the profs personally, which is much easier to do in small classes. Just start with small talk on your way in/out of class, you'll find that with most profs it will escalate. They usually love talking with us. Good luck
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2008
- Messages
- 158
- Reaction score
- 0
Who do you think will "impress" a professor more? A student that comes in and asks about a simple HW problem that they have no clue how to even get started on. Or a student that understands the material quite well, and wants to gain an even deeper understanding. Now, definitely don't be "that guy" who annoys the professor with minutia, but I would definitely still go in and ask some questions, and then maybe gradually move the conversation beyond just the class material itself.
4
45408
The horrors of giving away your identity on the network of student doctors!!
Anyways, don't TRY to "wow" any professors. That's almost guaranteed to backfire. My LORs came from three types of professors - ones that I did actually know outside of the classroom, ones that I only knew in the classroom but did really well in their class, and one I did research with for quite a while. Most of the time, your med school app won't hinge on your LORs. As long as they don't screw you over, don't get too worried about them. Don't force it.
I've always been kind of paranoid about losing anonymity on this site. Anyways, there's a good chance I'll be doing a little bit of research next semester, so that will be a good LOR. Most of the advice has been good. thanks.
Do you have a research mentor or a department advisor with whom you have or could take a class? Those can be good options (and were two of my letters).
Alternatively, why not e-mail a professor from a class you aced and mention you're interested in applying to medical school and wanted to see if you could schedule a meeting to talk about a possible LOR? There's no reason why you can't develop a strong relationship after you've finished a class, and professors may be more approachable in this context than when having to come up with a random/awkward question to ask during office hours or after lecture.
Alternatively, why not e-mail a professor from a class you aced and mention you're interested in applying to medical school and wanted to see if you could schedule a meeting to talk about a possible LOR? There's no reason why you can't develop a strong relationship after you've finished a class, and professors may be more approachable in this context than when having to come up with a random/awkward question to ask during office hours or after lecture.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2009
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 1
Some people use their actual photos as their avatars....why would you be so concerned about anonymity? Are people looking for you? Are you in hiding? I'm not being facetious, if someone found out who I was it would have no effect on me at all. I can understand securing private information such as credit card numbers and social security numbers...but you must be a very important person in fear of assassination 😉....or something.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
- Messages
- 5,039
- Reaction score
- 7
Ok you can NOT leave it like that. Explain! lol
I don't want to reveal to much detail, for risk of jeopardizing his anonymity, but I will say this. He definitely wishes that he hadn't done it....
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2009
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 1
I don't want to reveal to much detail, for risk of jeopardizing his anonymity, but I will say this. He definitely wishes that he hadn't done it....
I think I know who you're referring to....yeah, I still shake my head when I think of the poor guy. Lesson learned.
Nothing bad would happen per se. But anonymity creates a more laid back environment to ask questions freely/get advice, without worrying what everyone will think after stuff has been posted.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 191
- Reaction score
- 0
um...on the topic of anonymity, i didn't think it was that big of a deal at first, but someone gave me a harsh warning one time and ever since then, i try to be more careful about what i write, so i can understand.
but on the topic of 'wowing' your professors, i have pretty much the same problem. so, recently i've taken to wandering the hallways of the science department and dropping in to have a chat with whoever looks like their not busy. for the more inaccessible professors, i make appointments once in a while to discuss my courses and goals and such. hopefully, if i keep at this for the next few months, they'll be able to write me something decent. 😉
but on the topic of 'wowing' your professors, i have pretty much the same problem. so, recently i've taken to wandering the hallways of the science department and dropping in to have a chat with whoever looks like their not busy. for the more inaccessible professors, i make appointments once in a while to discuss my courses and goals and such. hopefully, if i keep at this for the next few months, they'll be able to write me something decent. 😉
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,263
- Reaction score
- 4
It's gay, but you just have to try and get to know them / let them know you. I found the easiest way to do that was to come up with questions, even if i already knew the answers, so i could go to their office hours and talk with them.
Overall it's a huge pain in the ass. But you gotta do what you gotta do and this ******ed process requires that you obtain a couple letters from people who can verify that you can act right for an hour at a time. So, so, so, pointless.
Overall it's a huge pain in the ass. But you gotta do what you gotta do and this ******ed process requires that you obtain a couple letters from people who can verify that you can act right for an hour at a time. So, so, so, pointless.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2009
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 1
I actually agree with this, along with volunteering. It's supposed to show that the student has a strong desire for medicine, but most do it because they need it for their app; OR, its supposed to expose us to what real medicine is like, but at ~4 hours a shift most students get exposed to nothing more than sorting paper or dealing with non-medical personnel. It seems to be a matter of the admissions saying "jump" and we're all supposed to ask "how high?"
Disclaimer: i'm not including those students who genuinely volunteer due to a love of medicine, and I'm not discounting those who get excellent exposure to what doctors really do....but really, a poll should be taken: how many of you rack up your ec's because you have to and how many because you really want to?
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2007
- Messages
- 3,924
- Reaction score
- 13
LORs from profs are not pointless. They can tell a lot about you. The problem is simply that in larger, lower-division courses it's often difficult for a prof to know every student. As a result, the most engaging, determined, and focused students are likely to be the ones who the prof gets to know and can write a decent LOR for. While the system is certainly imperfect, it does serve a function.
As for volunteering, etc. being worthless, while many students do do these things simply b/c "it's required," I don't think this is always the case. At least some (hopefully most) of us can honestly say we volunteer, do research, etc. b/c we love it. I won't generally take on a volunteer role that I don't feel I would fit will and if I fit a role well, I will generally enjoy it. If you don't like volunteering at a hospital or a free clinic don't do it -- find some other organization whose passion you passion and mission you share! I truly believe that your sharing a passion with the people you volunteer, research, or work for will show through in your LORs, PS, and especially your interview, so it's definitely to your advantage to find something you love. Don't just take what you can get!
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,263
- Reaction score
- 4
I did nearly all of my EC's and LOR work because it was required, i wasn't too interested in actually doing it for the sake of doing it (outside of shadowing a few times).
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,263
- Reaction score
- 4
Professor LOR's are definitely pointless. They verify the one thing I said they verify, that you can act right for an hour. Sit in class, act attentive, ask a few questions, then drop by office hours once in a while. You could be a total a-hole the rest of your life but if you can act right for an hour (most people can do this), you'll get good LORs.
I think they'd get better (better meaning more representative of the student) LOR's from people such as employers, who have spent endless hours around the student and seen what they're like when they're tired, disgruntled, whatever.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2009
- Messages
- 786
- Reaction score
- 54
Being on the young side shouldn't be preventing you from forming relationships. Other students do it, and unless you're like 13, those students are not much older than you are. Don't create an artificial barrier for yourself.
I would suggest talking with a professor who studies an area that you like particularly. For instance, I do really well in my philosophy courses and don't really need office hours, but one of my teachers translates a philosopher that I like particularly. I struck up conversations with her not just to get a LOR, but because she offers me insight into a field that I take a great deal of personal enjoyment from. Getting to know a professor is about finding professors with common interests who you can learn from more than anything, in my experience.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2007
- Messages
- 3,924
- Reaction score
- 13
You must have never actually worked with a professor outside of class. In-class LORs aren't particularly helpful as I agree the prof never sees you beyond the few hrs/wk. OTOH, profs you've worked w/ know you as an employer. They have had you as more than a student (i.e., as an RA, TA, etc.). My advisor in UG definitely saw me on my bad days. She definitely saw me stumble and fall (and not so gracefully some of those times). She saw my ups and downs -- and sometimes my ups becoming my downs! (And vice versa, of course)
So while I agree that if the prof has not seen you outside of class, the LOR is somewhat useless (the prof's writing will tell an adcom this), nobody who is thinking this thing out, is well-advised, and is both a strong student and generally likeable individual has a prof they hardly know write their LORs*.
*Well, at least they shouldn't. Obviously, it happens, which is unfortunate, but it's important to know your profs if you want decent LORs.
No, letters from professors are far from pointless, and are often among the strongest letters in an applicant's file. Sure, if all the LOR says is "X did well and finished with a cumulative grade of Y% in...," it won't help much, but you can get uninspiring letters from anyone. Many basic science professors have seen 1000s of pre-medical students in their careers, which provides invaluable context to their recommendations. When I read a letter that describes an applicant as among the top 1% of pre-medical students seen in a 15-year career, you can bet it makes a difference.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2009
- Messages
- 1,333
- Reaction score
- 24
Go get a high score on the MCAT. It'll help more in overall scheme of things. You can get into medical school with generic letters of recommendation along the lines of "Bobby got a 95% in Organic Chemistry, would recommend again."
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,263
- Reaction score
- 4
Oh, I didn't say they don't count. I'm saying they are pointless. Yes i can kick ass in the classroom, kiss up to the professor and get an awesome letter saying I'm in the "top 1%" he's ever seen. But that doesn't really say anything about what kind of student I am besides the fact that I can act right during this particular professors class. Also, the whole grade thing can be checked out right there on the transcript, no need for the professor to even discuss it.
I agree with everyone that they are valuable, but only because the medical schools want them. I just think that it's very easy for nearly anyone to get great LOR's by just acting right a few hours a week, making them useless in painting an accurate picture of the student. They should all just say "student X can behave in a classroom and pretend to be interested".
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2009
- Messages
- 1,333
- Reaction score
- 24
Good LORs don't increase the stats of a school. A good GPA and MCAT does. Guess what they place more value on?
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2007
- Messages
- 3,924
- Reaction score
- 13
You seriously think a school cares a whole lot about the difference between a 33 (~85th percentile) and a 34 (~87th percentile) or a 3.80 (~85%ile) and a 3.85 (~87%ile)? It makes such a little difference in their average that it doesn't really matter (now, I will give you that big differences do matter but as long as you're above their average on everything, your LOR is often more critical). Sure, below a certain pt, GPA & MCAT are crucial, but beyond that they become increasingly less valuable. A mediocre LOR will kill you just as quickly as a mediocre GPA or MCAT score; you just might not know why you're unable to get in anywhere. They care what profs say about you b/c they know they have to deal with you for 4 years if they accept you.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2009
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 1
Yeah I think there's some miscommunication going on this thread. I got one of my lor's from my manager at work...I spent 3 years with her at 40 hours a week and she wrote me a killer lor.
