Not so good SAT scores

[MissPaisley]

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[Vicviper]

Don't stress too much, one way or another you'll be fine. I didn't actually take the SAT, and I know they recently changed the scoring, so I'm not sure how that score ranks. One thing I've found is that for the Dental Schools, the school you go to doesn't make a very large difference - unless possibly it was the school with the dental school, or something with legacy. I went to a community college and did all of my pre-reqs there before transferring to a UC school, and I still got accepted to Columbia Dental, as well as a few other schools. Your undergrad is going to be mostly what you make out of it, and you can do amazing anywhere you go as long as you put the work in. Just be sure to get the best GPA you can, and then ultimetly the best DAT you can. I'm a horrible test taker too, but with enough hard work I did really well on the DAT, and got into great schools, so you can too.

Again, don't stress, and you'll be fine wherever you go, as long as you put the work in. Good luck!

 

[dmbxvii]

You don't need SAT scores for Holy Cross so that's always an option. it's a really really good school for pre med as well, probably one of the number one LAC

 

[AryaStark]

You could also try to get some neuropsychological testing done to see if you qualify for any accommodations during the exam. This would include extra time, perhaps taking it in a separate room, and/or being allowed to use ear plugs. If you have a disability, you can have the entire evaluation sent to ETS, and if it's legit they can approve you for these accommodations.

 

[MissPaisley]

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[EyEnStein 07]

your score is not too bad..infact i had exactly 10 points lower than you the first time i took it (i believe i had M:630 CR:490 W:490)

Some great advice..do a lot of pracitice problems!!!! buy the blue book SAT collegeboard and work at it. I did throughout the whole summer. Also if your like me and suck at CR....honestly i would not bother that much stressing over it maximize your W and M scores....trust me math is like the easiest to bring up especially if your good at it. In the end i think i ended up with something like 720/510/680 (+/- a few points, cant remmeber exactly) when i retook it my senior year.

Also you might want to focus on some subject tests, go to the library they should have books. Remember...its more important to first check out the colleges your applying to and how many they require (some require none, some 2 some 3) and then take the ones that are EASY for YOU...dont worry about taking Bio Chem Physics Math or w.e just because their science..if you feel your good at Math, Spanish and World History, then go for it.

 

[MissPaisley]

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[AryaStark]

When I say disability, i don't necessarily only mean a regular learning disability. You could just get test anxiety, and/or have difficulty concentrating when other people are around. It honestly can't hurt. But do what you want. Also, what are these scores out of?

 

[broken tibula]

When I say disability, i don't necessarily only mean a regular learning disability. You could just get test anxiety, and/or have difficulty concentrating when other people are around. It honestly can't hurt. But do what you want. Also, what are these scores out of?

SAT is out of 700 for each section, and 2100 total.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

SAT is out of 700 for each section, and 2100 total.

?? surely your joking ??

800 each section, 3 sections, 1 essay = 2400
Essay is approx. 150 points included in the writing section. So Theoretically 0 on the essay with 100% correct answers on the writing portion will score you a 650.

SAT II subject tests are out of 800.

 

[Crazyday]

When I say disability, i don't necessarily only mean a regular learning disability. You could just get test anxiety, and/or have difficulty concentrating when other people are around. It honestly can't hurt. But do what you want. Also, what are these scores out of?

I think this is a major problem with these upcoming generations.

Oh mai gawd, I have test anxiety, I must have ADD, get me some ridaline so I can be on the same level as everyone else.

Pathetic. Everyone has test anxiety. It goes away by practicing and learning that it's just a piece of paper, and being nervous about it doesn't help you.

 

[AryaStark]

You're right. As a junior in high school you really know everything there is to know about serious psychopathology and learning disabilities, huh.

Although many people have regular test anxiety, there are those who actually suffer from severe anxiety and/or panic attacks that can be triggered by different stimuli, including tests that decide the rest of your future. Not just the "oh my god I'm so nervous" feeling.

Also, not everyone who suffers from ADD or other disorders will load up with medication. There are many cognitive behavioral techniques that work similarly without using significant amounts of drugs.

It was just a suggestion to the OP. Many people don't realize that they can get these accommodations. Luckily for CrazyDay,they don't give out accommodations very easily and/or to people who do not deserve it. It is just a route that I know some have gone on.

CrazyDay, just because you have never experienced anything like this doesn't mean it doesn't happen and/or really affect people's daily lives. Get some compassion or educate yourself before you post, otherwise you end up looking like a rather foolish. Additionally, I would recommend that since you are going into the medical field, (ie what this entire forum is meant for) you should really learn a thing or two, because I can tell you that after seeing you make an argument such as this with such a hostile attitude, you won't have an easy time getting into many doctoral or medical programs.

I think this is a major problem with these upcoming generations.

Oh mai gawd, I have test anxiety, I must have ADD, get me some ridaline so I can be on the same level as everyone else.

Pathetic. Everyone has test anxiety. It goes away by practicing and learning that it's just a piece of paper, and being nervous about it doesn't help you.

 

[CyclistOK]

When I say disability, i don't necessarily only mean a regular learning disability. You could just get test anxiety, and/or have difficulty concentrating when other people are around. It honestly can't hurt. But do what you want. Also, what are these scores out of?

Sorry, but part of these tests is to determine your ability to with a time limit hanging over you and under pressure. If you can't perform under said conditions, perhaps your shouldn't do well. People who do suffer from extreme anxiety, need to get it under control for tests just like they need to control it in their future stressful job situations.

 

[AryaStark]

I appreciate your opinion, but that's not always necessarily true. Although these tests have some merit, I have read that many types of graduate level standardized testing (ie the gres) might be weeded out in the next few years by several institutions. Data exists that says doing well on standardized tests predicts your future abilities in school and/or your profession, but people who have test taking disabilities and/or test anxiety who are otherwise very capable, would be outliers to this data set.

I am going to assume you are pretty good at standardized tests, if I am wrong, feel free to correct me. Not understanding these issues makes it very easy for someone to just say what you said. Having already gone though college, worked with students and people with these disabilities, and been a poor test taker myself, I can tell you that from my experience, that correlation really doesn't imply causation. I have worked with people who actually have severe test anxiety,but have worked in places like Harvard, Boston University, McLean Hospital etc with amazing GPAs. With your proposed system, they would be completely taken out of the running because of their lower score even with an immaculate CV. This happens all the time. If this weren't so, then I would say "forget accommodations." However, because people with high GPAs, great work experience, and superb recommendations get weeded out in the first round due to a poor score brought upon by internal factors, it just doesn't seem very fair. ETS doesn't just give away these accommodations very easily. You have to have had an extensive neuropsychological assessment with a number of battieries done by an experienced and reputable neruropsychologist. This type of exam will typically last somewhere between 5-8 hours. Even if you have a history of disabilities and/or this anxiety with such an examination, you still might not get accommodations. They are given to people who sincerely need it, not to people who just say they have a problem.

Unfortunately when we talk about the SATs, we are talking about high school students. They are not always willing or able to get their anxiety "under control." This can be due to a of a variety of factors, to name a few: parental opposition or just pure ignorance. However, just because they don't have the tools to fix their problem, doesn't mean they don't deserve equal opportunities.

You wouldn't deny someone who was far sighted the ability to use their glasses. You also wouldn't deny someone in a wheelchair the ability to move onto a career in medicine because they can't force their legs to work like people who are able to walk. Not everyone is the same and sometimes people,who are just as smart as you, need some help with a test (that isn't designed for them) to reach their full potential.

Sorry, but part of these tests is to determine your ability to with a time limit hanging over you and under pressure. If you can't perform under said conditions, perhaps your shouldn't do well. People who do suffer from extreme anxiety, need to get it under control for tests just like they need to control it in their future stressful job situations.

 

[Crazyday]

You're right. As a junior in high school you really know everything there is to know about serious psychopathology and learning disabilities, huh.

Although many people have regular test anxiety, there are those who actually suffer from severe anxiety and/or panic attacks that can be triggered by different stimuli, including tests that decide the rest of your future. Not just the "oh my god I'm so nervous" feeling.

Also, not everyone who suffers from ADD or other disorders will load up with medication. There are many cognitive behavioral techniques that work similarly without using significant amounts of drugs.

It was just a suggestion to the OP. Many people don't realize that they can get these accommodations. Luckily for CrazyDay,they don't give out accommodations very easily and/or to people who do not deserve it. It is just a route that I know some have gone on.

CrazyDay, just because you have never experienced anything like this doesn't mean it doesn't happen and/or really affect people's daily lives. Get some compassion or educate yourself before you post, otherwise you end up looking like a rather foolish. Additionally, I would recommend that since you are going into the medical field, (ie what this entire forum is meant for) you should really learn a thing or two, because I can tell you that after seeing you make an argument such as this with such a hostile attitude, you won't have an easy time getting into many doctoral or medical programs.

Heh at your first and last paragraphs.

Someone does average on the SAT and is asking for help and you suggest that maybe they need help with test anxiety. The poster suggested nothing hinting toward needing psychological assistance or diagnosis, but instead seemed to be a pretty level-headed high schooler who didn't do perfect on the SAT. I don't see anything out of the ordinary here, and I think your comment was quite out of place.

I'm pretty educated, and I think it's pathetic when people think they need psychological help for nuances that we all deal with on a daily basis. Everyone deals with test anxiety, and yea there may be some super extreme cases, but those might be precursors to a condition that should be verified by a psychologist.

Or the parents that think their kid acts up too much so they go get a quick prescription for ridaline. I hear of students getting a quick "diagnosis" for ADD so they can get prescription ridaline when they're really the same psychologically as anyone else, they just feel like they need extra assistance because they can't cut it.

Maybe you just came off the wrong way, but the way I read your first post sounds like "Oh, well you can go get some testing and get these "accomodations" if you want", which I've heard of students doing because they think they "have a problem". It didn't sound like you thought the original poster might actually have a problem, but more like they could get some "special" help if they still couldn't score a perfect 2400.

And I'm not normally very hostile, but people that think they need "accomodations" for "disabilities" that EVERYONE deals with piss me off, and so do the people who agree with them and baby them along so they never have to wake up and realize life isn't full of daisies. So please don't try and force your psychological bibble-babble on me and try to tell me I need "assistance" with my personality if I want to get into any medical program.

Have a nice day.


At the original post, I'm aiming for the ACT myself, but I would look up review books on the SAT and do lots of practice tests. The Princeton Review probably has a book, and there's probably an official review book as well, so I'd pick both of those up. Collegeconfidential (google it if you don't know it, they're separate forums for college stuff) might have some decent information under the SAT prep section.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

However, because people with high GPAs, great work experience, and superb recommendations get weeded out in the first round due to a poor score brought upon by internal factors, it just doesn't seem very fair.

You wouldn't deny someone who was far sighted the ability to use their glasses. You also wouldn't deny someone in a wheelchair the ability to move onto a career in medicine because they can't force their legs to work like people who are able to walk. Not everyone is the same and sometimes people,who are just as smart as you, need some help with a test (that isn't designed for them) to reach their full potential.

I agree that in extreme cases extended time should be offered. Just out of curiosity...are you for or against standardized testing? Keep in mind that students with low GPA's, decent work experience, decent recommendations (as due to their gpas) with high standardized test scores are also weeded out.

I think it doesnt make much sense to remove things such as standardized tests just because people have certain conditions that may prohibit them from performing at their best. Give them a reasonable amount of extra time. I mean....how do those students obtain high gpas to begin with? They have midterms, quizzes, finals etc... all that they have to study for and do well on in a certain amount of time. Either they arent putting in the time to prepare for the exams, or they just havent really learned the material (taking professors who give easy A's) which adds on to their anxiety. Im not saying that test anxiety etc...are not valid reasons, but surely their are other factors that make them feel the way they do.

 

[AryaStark]

Heh at your first and last paragraphs.

Someone does average on the SAT and is asking for help and you suggest that maybe they need help with test anxiety. The poster suggested nothing hinting toward needing psychological assistance or diagnosis, but instead seemed to be a pretty level-headed high schooler who didn't do perfect on the SAT. I don't see anything out of the ordinary here, and I think your comment was quite out of place.

I'm pretty educated, and I think it's pathetic when people think they need psychological help for nuances that we all deal with on a daily basis. Everyone deals with test anxiety, and yea there may be some super extreme cases, but those might be precursors to a condition that should be verified by a psychologist.

Or the parents that think their kid acts up too much so they go get a quick prescription for ridaline. I hear of students getting a quick "diagnosis" for ADD so they can get prescription ridaline when they're really the same psychologically as anyone else, they just feel like they need extra assistance because they can't cut it.

Maybe you just came off the wrong way, but the way I read your first post sounds like "Oh, well you can go get some testing and get these "accomodations" if you want", which I've heard of students doing because they think they "have a problem". It didn't sound like you thought the original poster might actually have a problem, but more like they could get some "special" help if they still couldn't score a perfect 2400.

And I'm not normally very hostile, but people that think they need "accomodations" for "disabilities" that EVERYONE deals with piss me off, and so do the people who agree with them and baby them along so they never have to wake up and realize life isn't full of daisies. So please don't try and force your psychological bibble-babble on me and try to tell me I need "assistance" with my personality if I want to get into any medical program.

Have a nice day.


At the original post, I'm aiming for the ACT myself, but I would look up review books on the SAT and do lots of practice tests. The Princeton Review probably has a book, and there's probably an official review book as well, so I'd pick both of those up. Collegeconfidential (google it if you don't know it, they're separate forums for college stuff) might have some decent information under the SAT prep section.

This is a much more thoughtful and educated post. I appreciate it much more than the other. I apologize if it sounded like I offered a quick fix. I was merely giving this person all the options available to them. Not everyone knows that these options exist. I have no clue about what troubles them in tests, and doing poorly on standardized tests is merely a red flag that there are perhaps deeper rooted issues than just being a poor test taker. Like I said before, it is not EASY as ALL to get these accommodations, you really need to 1. have a problem 2. display that otherwise you would do fine in the academic setting etc etc. I don't remember all of what goes into the decision, but if you care to know, I am sure you can find it on the ETS website.

I agree that not everyone who is poor at test taking needs these accommodations, but I hardly find it pathetic to seek treatment or help for serious psychopathology. For example, say someone has a serious headache every once in a while and displays changes in personality. This happens to everybody right? Well what if they to a their PCP then a neurologist and found that they had a life threatening tumor. You wouldn't call this person pathetic for looking to get treatment for something that everybody suffers from.

I can't speak to the parents who load their children up with medication. That is actually something I tend not to agree with, being a psychology student. The people who are loading kids up with medication tend to be in your future profession. Perhaps you can someday fix this seemingly failing system. Typically, if you go to a psychologist, there is no "quick diagnosis." There is a long process of behavioral modification that, if parents choose to, can be aided with medicine. Again, this is something that nurse practitioners and/or doctors do, not psychologists.

I don't think that "not being able to cut it" has anything to do with it. Have you ever been a school teacher trying to help a child with severe ADD? Without some type of assistance, that child will fall behind and feel social stigmatization. I find you putting disabilities in quotations as somewhat offensive. Not to me personally, but people who will be reading this with these disabilities. There's a difference between babying people and giving them treatment and accommodations when necessary. I will stand by my assessment that you need to be a little more compassionate. I did not say it is a personality flaw, but perhaps something that in time you will come to understand as being necessary for a career in any health related field.

As to whether or not what I say is "psychological bibble babble" I am sure there are many people who would probably agree and disagree with you. All I can say is that I am just trying to show you that judging people based on their psychopathology is wrong. Maybe one day when you are a parent or work in the health field, you will understand what it is like to live with and experience firsthand what these disorders are like. Perhaps then you will fully understand that not everyone is faking it, and that sometimes people really do need help for problems that “everyone has.”

 

[Crazyday]

Psychiatrists are responsible for prescribing ridaline etc., which is sort of what I meant by psychologists.

I realize that not everyone fakes it, but a lot of people do, and I see a lot of people thinking they need some sort of special help when they're dealing with the same thing everyone else is. Everyone's scores on the SAT/ACT would improve greatly if we got extra time or a separate room to take them in. That's part of the nature with standardized testing, and if you need "assistance" to take the SAT/ACT I don't really see how you expect to function in the real world where there is no "assistance"; let alone in medicine where you're making decisions every minute that decides whether someone lives or dies. There's things that are a lot more stressful in life than some petty test. Not to mention that medicine is a never-ending stream of standardized tests. MCAT, USMLE, board exams, orals...

And yes, cases of severe ADD are different, as I've said. But when kids in MEDICAL SCHOOL go down to get a prescription of ridaline because they "can't cut it", it's a little different. I think these medications and accomodations are an easy way out for a lot of people.

In your case with the brain tumor, I think it would be kind of pathetic, depending on how bad the headache actually was. A million people with bad headaches could go to their PCP and maybe one of them would have a tumor. They're forcing their doctor to look for a zebra and waste valuable time and resources (so they don't get sued) when 99.99% of the time there is nothing there. It just so happens that in this one magic case they actually did have a tumor. Does that mean everyone with a bad headache should go see a neurologist? Surely not.

I have great compassion for those that actually have problems, but I think many of them would actually agree with me and take even more offense at the perfectly normal people who think they need help. I am in no way saying that these problems do not exist, but way too many people get false diagnoses as an easy way out to a problem that everyone deals with. I agree that accommodating and medicating the people who actually have problems is ethical and I have no problem with people that actually have a real problem. I just don't personally care for the growing number of people in our society who think they have problems when they really have no problem at all and just need to be babied through life.

My apologies if I came off as derisive towards you or the field of psychology.

 

[AryaStark]

Eyen: I am not really for or against standardized testing. I see the benefits and the problems with it. However, I feel that it is a necessary evil for admittance into any type of program. It is hard for admissions committees to have an accurate assessment of a student because each high schools scoring system and difficulty level is different, IMO. I merely feel that students who have shown serious problems in this arena should have the opportunity to seek more time or any type of accommodations. In my own experience at high school, students with low GPAs, were traditionally offered extra credit assignments to raise your score, or were able to seek extra help after school because they just didn't understand it in the classroom. I feel that accommodations, although not at all the same, have a similar feel. People, who sincerely are in need of it, should have the opportunity to get it. I agree with a lot of what you are saying.


Crazy, I'm finding it really hard to have a conversation with you. You are not understanding at all what it's like to have a serious psychological problem, and therefore you will remain stubborn on this issue.

One thing, that as a future medical student, you should know is the distinction between psychiatrist and psychologist. A psychiatrist is an MD, what you want to do. A psychiatrist typically studies biology, chemistry etc in college, not, I repeat not psychology (some can double major, but you need to have basic science courses to be admitted). They then apply to medical school and go on the same path as any other MD. What's different is that instead of specializing in pediatrics or cardiology, they specialize in psychiatry. Psychologists get PhDs or PsyDs and perform therapy ,or in this case, cognitive and behavioral modification. They do not prescribe medication, and they typically feel that treatment can be successful without medication.
I'm sure a lot of people that you have encountered fake it, and can get ridalin. However, that is not at all what I am talking about. I know nothing about medicine, because like I said, psychologists have nothing to do with that. I am however talking about accommodations on standardized tests. Like I have said at least 2 times, you need to have SEVERE psychopathology, and you need to have a 5-8 hour examination to even be CONSIDERED for accommodations.

Yes, everyone's scores WOULD improve greatly with extra time, however not everyone NEEDS extra time. If ETS didn't think it was necessary and didn't understand that sometimes their tests weren't designed for every type of person, they wouldn't offer it.
Taking graduate level classes and even undergraduate level classes /exams are so systematically different than taking the SATs it's astounding. One cannot say with perfect confidence that doing well on a standardized test will at all predict how well you do in college or graduate school. Even making tough decisions in a medical situation is so systematically different than using Pythagorean theorem to know the length of a ladder leaned against a house.Additionally, any type of test post GRE like the MCAT or the boards etc will focus on what you actually STUDIED in school. I did not study algebra or geometry in college, however to get into graduate school I had to be proficient in both to get in. When I go to get liscenced it would be a joke if they asked those kinds of questions. When you spend 5 years studying something, it will be a little bit easier to do well, which is probably why they don't have accommodations for those types of qualifying examinations.

Yes there are things that are a lot more stressful in life to YOU than a "petty test" but perhaps that is not so for everyone, and to say so is ignorant. People measure stress towards things differently.

Again, I am not saying anything about kids in medical school going to get a perscription from someone at all, so I don't understand how that was even a relevant point to argue with me. I don't think it's right to get prescribed medication when you don't need it, and to say so would be highly unethical.

If you need to say that they are an easy way out to make yourself feel better, continue to do so, clearly I can't change your mind with pure logic.

I find it a little sad that you would say it is pathetic to get treatment for something that is a serious ailment. That is not a good point of view to have going into medical school. Every med student and doctor I know would never even THINK to say what you just said. I find that "wasting valuable time" to save one person's life is worth it, however that is just my own opinion. Perhaps not everyone looks at time as money, and really go into medicine to help everyone, not just those who have life threatening illnesses. There are many reasons why people would have a headache, even just needing glasses. Going to a doctor when you have any sort of problem like that is important and something you should never discourage if and when you become an MD.
People with problems probably WOUDLN'T take offense that others worried that they had such a problem. It's better to get assessed and find out you need no treatment than live your whole life with a serious problem, IMO.

Again, I never even talked about medication, so I don't know why it was brought up several times in your postings.

 

[broken tibula]

I'm sure this has gotten lost in the walls of text below me, but I, er, do know that the SAT is out of 800 for each section. I should, considering my scores anyway. But when I posted that it was very, very early in the morning and clearly I wasn't thinking straight. LOL.

 

[Vicviper]

I think we all need to get a bit back to our senses. Arya, you bring up perfectly valid points, but you're blowing Crazy's points a bit out of proportion - as s/he said, there is nothing wrong with seeking help for serious conditions. The way I read it, Crazy is referring to people who abuse the system, which is rampant. From my own experience, a guy in my Calculus class flat up told me that he faked learning disabilities so he could get into the college disabilities program, and got to take all of his tests separately from the class, and get as much time as he wanted.

But I do realize that learning disabilities are serious issues, having taught math to students with both learning and developmental issues myself. I was able to get students to really achieve through a helpful hand and patience, and a strong effort on their part. I can definitely say that some of the accommodations, (i.e. extra time) did help - many of the students I worked with had great understandings of the material, but were simply overwhelmed by the amount of problems and unable to finish in time. But I also found that a few of the students actually disliked being offered, and eventually turned down the accommodations after a while, because they wanted to prove to themselves that they really could do it, and didn't want to think of themselves as unable.

And I'm getting off tangent again.... lets not argue about this, simply yelling at each other won't change anyone's opinion. To the OP refer to my original post, and I'm sure with enough dedication and effort, you'll do just fine. Good luck!

 

[AryaStark]

I appreciate what you're saying, but I don't believe I have blown anything out of proportion. I have merely defended myself and people who need accommodations. All I have ever argued is that 1. students who NEED accommodations should be able to have them ,and 2. that these disorders really exist and ,when diagnosed properly, these accommodations aren't an "easy out".

Perhaps you didn't realize this, but Crazy quoted my post, and then began making completely unrelated arguments. I never mentioned anything about accommodations in CLASSES. I am pretty sure I have made myself abundantly clear several times that I am speaking to ETS regulation, not taking regular tests (high school or college alike) in a different classroom. ETS regulation is something COMPLETELY different than getting accommodations in the classroom. Like I have said already, it takes a LOT of neuropsychological testing to be qualified for ETS accommodations. In regards to the classroom, you really only need the school psychologist, who may or may not have a doctoral level education, to make an assessment. I however am not in school psychology, nor do I do neuropsychological testing with adolescents.

I agree with his worry about people screwing the system, but again, this has nothing to do with anything that I was even remotely talking about, so I don't really even know why it was brought up as an argument against me.

I also have not made any statements that would be considered "yelling at someone." My posts, in my opinion, have been thought out, and I have tried to be as objective as possible with someone who keeps making unrelated points. I have not offended an entire population of people by saying they are "pathetic."

I'm really just about done with this particular thread because I have said just about all there is to say on the subject matter. Crazy will continue to have his own opinions, as misguided as I think they may be.

I think we all need to get a bit back to our senses. Arya, you bring up perfectly valid points, but you're blowing Crazy's points a bit out of proportion - as s/he said, there is nothing wrong with seeking help for serious conditions. The way I read it, Crazy is referring to people who abuse the system, which is rampant. From my own experience, a guy in my Calculus class flat up told me that he faked learning disabilities so he could get into the college disabilities program, and got to take all of his tests separately from the class, and get as much time as he wanted.

But I do realize that learning disabilities are serious issues, having taught math to students with both learning and developmental issues myself. I was able to get students to really achieve through a helpful hand and patience, and a strong effort on their part. I can definitely say that some of the accommodations, (i.e. extra time) did help - many of the students I worked with had great understandings of the material, but were simply overwhelmed by the amount of problems and unable to finish in time. But I also found that a few of the students actually disliked being offered, and eventually turned down the accommodations after a while, because they wanted to prove to themselves that they really could do it, and didn't want to think of themselves as unable.

And I'm getting off tangent again.... lets not argue about this, simply yelling at each other won't change anyone's opinion. To the OP refer to my original post, and I'm sure with enough dedication and effort, you'll do just fine. Good luck!

 

[DylanAsdale]

I'm not a good test taker.

There's a very simple solution to that:

Take the ACT.

 

[Crazyday]

I stopped posting in this thread because I could quote my previous post and refute everything you responded to it with, aka it's like talking in circles or more aptly, to a wall. This will be my last post in this thread, as I've already tried to help the original poster to the best of my ability, and like I've already said, talking to you seems to be akin to talking in a circle.

How does ADD and ridaline have any relevance to this thread? It has a correlation with un-necessary treatment, un-necessary diagnoses. Your first post in here came off - at least to me, and seeing as how the original poster responded, to them too - as though you were saying they had a problem and could get help for it, or that they could get "help" with no real problem. Surely you can draw the connection between your offering most likely un-precedented accomodations and someone abusing ridaline. (In case you can't, they're both common things that people abuse to get on the same level because they either don't try hard enough or think they deserve some special help so they can get ahead)

Your second post, responding to when the op said he was just an average kid with no problems, demonstrated this perfectly by making the absurd claim that maybe he just has "text anxiety" or "difficulty concentrating when others are around". Who doesn't have those? Seriously, who doesn't? It's part of the package that comes with taking a standardized test.

Sure, there's people with legitimate cases of anxiety or psychosocial disorders that really do need help (how many times have I said this?), and I have no problem with them receiving it. Vicviper hit the nail right on the head with what my intentions are.

As far as me calling people "pathetic", I think you need to get a better idea of what medicine is about before you try to make analogies with it (or rather, medical ethics/politics). Patients going in for bull**** reasons like "I have a headache" is one of the main problems plaguing the healthcare industry right now, because these patients have to have a million dollar workup so that in case the doctor does get a 1/1,000,000 case where someone has a tumor, he doesn't get sued for $10,000,000. In 999,999/1,000,000 cases, the patient has a headache and that's it, and lots of valuable time and resources is spent to say "you have a headache. get over it". Instead of wasting time telling someone they don't have a headache, the doctor could be treating people that actually need help. But I guess you think we should keep treating every headache and holding up the whole machine, just because there might be that one in a million case where the doctor could have caught something before it escalated and needed more extensive treatment.

Now sure, if you're having some completely out of the ordinary headache that is rendering you completely immobile in unbearable 9/10 pain, then it deserves some attention. But you didn't say it was that kind of pain. You said it was a "bad headache", which is something that is brought into the ER more than you think, and gets a much bigger workup than you can probably imagine; and bad is a very relative term here.

Why would someone with a real disability take offense to people without disabilities getting accomodations? Well, being a psychology student and all, you should be able to figure this out. Maybe because the person with a real disability knows the difference between someone with a disability and someone abusing the system to get ahead? Maybe because the person abusing the system is making a complete mockery of the person with the real disability, who knows what it means to really be unable to keep up without help?

As far as standardized testing and "otherwise capable", is "otherwise capable" but "not capable in this faculty because of a factor that applies to all involved" deserving of special treatment? Standardized tests are a way to weed out by applying the same factors to all taking them, a way to judge by a standard, without anyone holding hands or giving extra credit.

I'll say this for probably the tenth time so maybe you might catch it this time, people with legitimate issues (severe "psychopathology" as you call it) do deserve special accomodations to put them on the same level. But I think if someone is having a panic attack when they see a test, they know there is a deeper problem and they can see their psychologist to receive aid. But when people like you try to tell people they might/do have a problem when they have none is just promoting hand-holding as a way to reward incompetence and allow someone to get ahead when they can't cut it like everyone else.

Finally, I try to avoid making debates that I get into on here (which I get into quite often) personal, and you can check my post history to see that I try to keep my arguments rather civil. You made it personal with your response, saying that I need to get compassionate and educated. I told you to have a nice day and apologized if I came off as derisive towards you or what you study so as to try to bring it back to a more civil tone, and yet you continue to say I am misguided and make snippy comments about how I keep pulling up unrelated points and offending whole populations. Perhaps I am not the only one with an underlying "psychosocial" issue here.

Good day and take care.

 

[AryaStark]

I'm pretty sure every argument you've made I've already explained. As I've said already, I never said the OP could just go and get the accommodations. I was giving him/her ALL the options. Like I said before, not everyone knows they exist. If they have the problem without knowing it, WHICH MANY PEOPLE DO, it would be helpful. Therefore if you bring this point up against me again, I'm probably just going to ignore you because you clearly aren't reading correctly.

When I said I don't understand why you are bringing up over prescribing kids, it was because I never argued anything of the sort and actually agreed with you.

When you brought up students faking the system, again this doesn't pertain to any of my arguments because you can't FAKE a disorder and get accommodations. If you read carefully, you'll see that I've said that they wouldn't get mad about people trying to GET accommodations. PERHAPS they would be mad if the person DID get accommodations, but when there are people who actually do have problems and can't even get them, I doubt someone faking would. You just can't.

I think you are making up general trends about how people with psychiatric problems would react to someone thinking they had the same problem, to make your point for you. You're too young to have ever worked as in depth with this population as you should to be able to make such arguments, so I don't find merit in what you've said.

As for the health care system, perhaps you're right. However, if I had a severe headache for a prolonged period of time and experienced significant changes in mood and I was made to feel stupid about it by someone like you, I'd laugh in your face. People experience TBIs all the time with serious side effects similar to this, and hardly ever go seek treatment. If your PCP says there's nothing wrong, then I don't see why you would have to waste thousands of dollars and make it so "other people can't get treated." If the PCP sends you there and it's just a headache, well then that's the PCPs fault, not the patient.

Also, clearly you aren't aware that ETS realizes that their tests aren't fair for everyone, and that not everyone learns things (IE long reading comprehension passages) the same exact way.

Here is what they ask for:
http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/...nnel=fbc7be3a864f4010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD

Here is their FAQs. I believe it answers some of your questions, and questions that others might have.

http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/...nnel=3918e3b5f64f4010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD

You and I seem to be arguing two separate issues, and I'm sick of trying to get you to see that. If you get in, good luck with med school.

I stopped posting in this thread because I could quote my previous post and refute everything you responded to it with, aka it's like talking in circles or more aptly, to a wall. This will be my last post in this thread, as I've already tried to help the original poster to the best of my ability, and like I've already said, talking to you seems to be akin to talking in a circle.

How does ADD and ridaline have any relevance to this thread? It has a correlation with un-necessary treatment, un-necessary diagnoses. Your first post in here came off - at least to me, and seeing as how the original poster responded, to them too - as though you were saying they had a problem and could get help for it, or that they could get "help" with no real problem. Surely you can draw the connection between your offering most likely un-precedented accomodations and someone abusing ridaline. (In case you can't, they're both common things that people abuse to get on the same level because they either don't try hard enough or think they deserve some special help so they can get ahead)

Your second post, responding to when the op said he was just an average kid with no problems, demonstrated this perfectly by making the absurd claim that maybe he just has "text anxiety" or "difficulty concentrating when others are around". Who doesn't have those? Seriously, who doesn't? It's part of the package that comes with taking a standardized test.

Sure, there's people with legitimate cases of anxiety or psychosocial disorders that really do need help (how many times have I said this?), and I have no problem with them receiving it. Vicviper hit the nail right on the head with what my intentions are.

As far as me calling people "pathetic", I think you need to get a better idea of what medicine is about before you try to make analogies with it (or rather, medical ethics/politics). Patients going in for bull**** reasons like "I have a headache" is one of the main problems plaguing the healthcare industry right now, because these patients have to have a million dollar workup so that in case the doctor does get a 1/1,000,000 case where someone has a tumor, he doesn't get sued for $10,000,000. In 999,999/1,000,000 cases, the patient has a headache and that's it, and lots of valuable time and resources is spent to say "you have a headache. get over it". Instead of wasting time telling someone they don't have a headache, the doctor could be treating people that actually need help. But I guess you think we should keep treating every headache and holding up the whole machine, just because there might be that one in a million case where the doctor could have caught something before it escalated and needed more extensive treatment.

Now sure, if you're having some completely out of the ordinary headache that is rendering you completely immobile in unbearable 9/10 pain, then it deserves some attention. But you didn't say it was that kind of pain. You said it was a "bad headache", which is something that is brought into the ER more than you think, and gets a much bigger workup than you can probably imagine; and bad is a very relative term here.

Why would someone with a real disability take offense to people without disabilities getting accomodations? Well, being a psychology student and all, you should be able to figure this out. Maybe because the person with a real disability knows the difference between someone with a disability and someone abusing the system to get ahead? Maybe because the person abusing the system is making a complete mockery of the person with the real disability, who knows what it means to really be unable to keep up without help?

As far as standardized testing and "otherwise capable", is "otherwise capable" but "not capable in this faculty because of a factor that applies to all involved" deserving of special treatment? Standardized tests are a way to weed out by applying the same factors to all taking them, a way to judge by a standard, without anyone holding hands or giving extra credit.

I'll say this for probably the tenth time so maybe you might catch it this time, people with legitimate issues (severe "psychopathology" as you call it) do deserve special accomodations to put them on the same level. But I think if someone is having a panic attack when they see a test, they know there is a deeper problem and they can see their psychologist to receive aid. But when people like you try to tell people they might/do have a problem when they have none is just promoting hand-holding as a way to reward incompetence and allow someone to get ahead when they can't cut it like everyone else.

Finally, I try to avoid making debates that I get into on here (which I get into quite often) personal, and you can check my post history to see that I try to keep my arguments rather civil. You made it personal with your response, saying that I need to get compassionate and educated. I told you to have a nice day and apologized if I came off as derisive towards you or what you study so as to try to bring it back to a more civil tone, and yet you continue to say I am misguided and make snippy comments about how I keep pulling up unrelated points and offending whole populations. Perhaps I am not the only one with an underlying "psychosocial" issue here.

Good day and take care.

 

[SamAnders]

I for one find Crazy's posts to be pretty offensive. However, if I had to live with my parents I'd be pretty angry and inconsiderate too.

 

[MissPaisley]

.

 

[lucy15]

Don't stress too much, one way or another you'll be fine. I didn't actually take the SAT, and I know they recently changed the scoring, so I'm not sure how that score ranks. One thing I've found is that for the Dental Schools, the school you go to doesn't make a very large difference - unless possibly it was the school with the dental school, or something with legacy. You don't need SAT scores for Holy Cross so that's always an option. it's a really really good school for pre med as well, probably one of the number one LAC

 

[PamBeasLizLemo]

Oh get over yourself. There are many posts that start off as one thing and develop into another. It just so happened that perhaps people answered your question to the best of their abilities. Also- people don't really pay attention to usernames. Stop being so bent out of shape.

Uh....so. Thanks for the help everybody? Most of these posts had nothing at all to do with my original question which is pretty disappointing for me to see as I kinda needed help and direction. If you want to have arguments with other members, please continue it on another thread. I made this thread so I could get some guidance from other students who were older than I was and would be able to help me. I figured since they've already gone through this experience, maybe they could help me and give me some tips. So, please continue it somewhere else. I didn't even read half of the posts on my thread because they had NOTHING to do with my questions. Send them a private message. And by the way...I'M A GIRL. Thanks for using "he". You could have understood that I was a female from my username on this website. You know you're ignoring the original post's questions when you go to reply, talk smack about the other members, and when you do try to comment on the original post, you get the gender wrong when their username contains, "Miss".
Anyhow, thanks to the people who did actually help me though. I will pick up some ACT books and I will also check out the Princeton Review SAT books.
I don't have a mental disability. I'm a pretty smart kid if I say so myself. I took 5 AP classes last year (Sophomore Year) and have a 3.7 GPA (unweighted). Sorry if that sounds bad or like I'm trying to make myself sound like I know everything (Because I'm not - Take a look at my SAT scores above. Haha.), but I just want you all to know I'm not mentally challeneged or anything. I do good at school. My grades are good. My test scores are good. I just got average scores on my SAT and I'm not used to doing that poorly on tests and I wanted some feedback if I should study for the ACT because it is a shorter test and it covers a wider range of topics. But, I was unsure because I already spent so much time studying for the SAT's and it seems all that effort would go to waste if I decided just to take the ACT's. I guess I'll do both since nobody ever answered that question in my original post. It seems that my SAT score was low because it's a long test. I have trouble (and I'm sure most kids my age have trouble) staying focused on a very boring test that only covers 3 sections for about 2 hours in a hot room with 30 other kids.
Well, thanks for the help? I guess... It seems I answered my own question. Thanks anyhow everybody.

 

[orthomyxo]

I'm going into Senior year of high school. I took the SAT once in June. I haven't taken the ACT nor any SAT Subject Tests (I will most likely need 2).

I took the SAT in June and got my scores back a few weeks ago:

Math 540
Writing 590
Reading 490

When I took the test though, I was sure I did better than this...I took an SAT study course too! Always did my homework for that class.

My question is: the SAT and SAT Subject Tests are offered in October, November...
Is November too late if I want to send the scores in to colleges in January-February?
I could take the ACT and SAT in both October and November and show colleges my best scores. It seems like the SAT writing score depends a lot on the essay question. So,that will make a total of 3 SAT tests and 2 ACT tests to pick from. I could take SAT subject tests in October since I'll have studied all summer for them. But, that seems like overkill...any suggestions?

I really want to get into a good school for pre-med. I'm not aiming for a Ivy League college, but a good college that will get me into a good Dental School. I'm looking at WPI/Holy Cross/BU...Those kinds of colleges. With my scores should I also look into taking the ACT since I'm obviously not doing well with the SAT? Or study only for the SAT because I've already studying a bunch for it. I would think studying for the ACT might help for the SAT as well if I decide to take both.

Any thoughts on what I should do? Any good study materials for the ACT/SAT? I know my scores are really bad and need to improve. I'm not a good test taker.

To be honest, don't put too much weight into your SAT scores; they count for much less than you might think. As long as you have a solid gpa, good resume, and a couple good LORs you should be all set. Trust me, I've taken the SAT three times, I'd rather take a lobotomy before I sit through that test once more. If your really not happy with your scores just retake. From my first time to my last I went up 190 points with no studying, so usually a poor performance can be attributed to nerves.

How does ADD and ridaline have any relevance to this thread?

You spelled Ritalin wrong.