Not sure how to proceed on path to MD/PhD

[mbig]

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I switched my majors a lot as an undergrad and eventually took time off of school due to health issues. Due to these issues I decided it would be best to switch from biochem/premed (which i loved) to Econ/stats. After graduating I worked (and am still working) as a global consultant within business/economics.

My current career is OK, but medicine and science is my true passion and where I want to be. I want to apply for an MD/PhD program but I'm not sure how to proceed with it and would appreciate input.

Quick background:
-Graduating total GPA: 3.65 from Purdue (I have never received a grade lower than a B in college, all of the B's are in courses I thought were a waste of time - primarily business and management courses).
-Science GPA: 4.0 (I still need physics II), also have a 4.0 in all stats classes and biochem courses i've taken
-Mcat: Haven't taken, though I feel I'll do well
-Research: 1 year of biochem research - did well in the research, but due to health issues left on bad terms with my PI - I know he won't write a letter of recommendation.
-EC: Other than working in a pharmacy, as a chemistry tutor, and as an analytically chemist I don't have any real EC experience or 'volunteering' experiences.

Currently, my two thoughts are as follow:

1) I apply for a masters program within a science/medical field to obtain research experience and strengthen my overall GPA. Again, I want to get into a PhD/MD program and feel I need the research. The main issues i'm having is finding programs I can get into with an Econ degree. There are some programs which state they only need course requirements but 'strongly urge to have a degree in a related field' which makes me feel I won't really have a shot to get in...

2) Apply for an MD program, don't do PhD. Before I even do this, I will need to finish my 1 remaining premed course anyways - which will push me back till Fall 2016 enrollment anyways. I'm not sure if there's much of a benefit ( other than possible starting my MD degree 1 year earlier) in this option, unless i'm unable to get into a master's program.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! thanks.

 

[debateg]

The main weakness in your application is your lack of research. You're going to need to show a commitment to research if you want to do MD/PhD. One option is to get into a master's program. I don't think having an economics degree will necessarily preclude that, especially if you can explain why you want to change fields and how your former career can help you. Your other option is working as a technician, ideally in academia. This can be hard to get into without connections these days... the market is pretty tight, so you may need to leverage your undergraduate school. The nice thing about getting a job is that you get paid, and sometimes you can take undergraduate courses for free, so you can have the job pay for your remaining premed courses. First and foremost, I recommend finding yourself a local mentor, preferably one with connections, to help you. If you know people working in biology, ask around who is good, and try to get introduced. If you can't get introduced, cold e-mail them. The worst they can say is no...

 

[StIGMA]

Due to health issues you decided it would be best to switch from premed to econ/stats? How does that work?

What are your career goals? Why do you need 3-6+ years of PhD training for this? Do you want to practice medicine?

What types of masters programs are you applying for (which I would assume is a similar field in which you would pursue a PhD)? Research-based master's programs can be 3 years long. A non-research M.S. won't help you much.

Are you able to go 2+ years away from work to pursue unpaid or poorly paid research?

I'd recommend you get at least 2 years of research to be competitive. Your GPA is well below average, and you simply cant bank on a 95%+ percentile MCAT score. Even with 2 years additional research (in the right lab) with a stellar rec letter and a great MCAT score, your odds are not great. Is it worth the risk to spend 1+ years building your MD/PhD application when you could already be a medical student?

 

[mbig]

Debateg - I agree that that's the main issue, and what I need to strengthen most. I do have a couple connections I can think of which I may be able to leverage for a internship/tech role. Though, am I wrong to think that a MS program and research within it would look better?

StIGMA -
To make a long story short - I was in severe health and thought that completing a PhD or MD (the main reason i was biochem/premed) program was not likely. At the time I was constantly in and out of doctor offices, IV treatments, and could barely walk. Due to this I switched into Econ and finished my degree within the year (taking over 20 credits per semester). Now that my health is better, I feel I can go back to the med school route.

I want to become a practicing neurologist and obtain my PhD in neurosience. The main two master programs i'm currently considering are Biotechnology and Pharmacology/toxicology. From what i've seen, they were the main programs i'll be able to get into with an Econ degree - I also find them both to be very interesting.

I will be able to leave work, and am hoping for the 'poorly paid' option as opposed to the 'unpaid', ha.

 

[StIGMA]

I am glad your health is better. Still- what about your career goals necessitates the PhD? I don't mean this question to be intrusive - but you should have a very good reason to spend years of your life in the lowly role of graduate student when you could instead be a practicing neurologist years earlier (who may still be involved in research).

Definitely consider whether the sacrifice is worth it to you. You can do research during medical school and afterwards (residency) with an MD. Unless you want to be publishing hardcore basic science articles that require PhD or equivalent training, a PhD is not worth it in addition to the MD.

Be wary about taking on educational debt for a masters program. The masters will not help- it really is only about the quantity and quality of your research experiences.

 

[mbig]

Thanks for the replies StIGMA.

To be honest, I know I really love science - and research. I am extremely interested in being a practicing MD, largely due to what I have witnessed in my life, though I'm also very interested in doing intense "hardcore basic science publishing". Because I want both so much, and I'm not sure which one I want stronger, I feel it would be more beneficial to go the MD/PhD route. Further, I feel the training and experience I'll gain through the PhD phase will be very worthwhile even if I do focus more on the MD side once all is done. Plus, the possibility of obtaining my MD fully funded doesn't hurt.

As far as the masters program - I'm unsure what to think of it, really. I feel I would enjoy the program and research that will go along with it, and it would be amazing if I can do the MS funded as well. I feel like my overall GPA isn't very strong (Wish I cared more about the business courses) and that excelling in an MS program could greatly strengthen my application. I have at least 2 years until I will even be able to begin Med School and 1 year before a master's program. I can't think of a better use of my time other than (possibly) being a research tech/intern.

 

[Rowany]

Without more detail it's hard to understand your transition to econ/stats, but if you enjoy most aspects (and just not the business side), you could consider applying MD-PhD oriented towards public health, ie epidemiology, stats, bioinformatics etc. It would probably be easier for you to get research experience in a lab in that area before applying given your current career. Still science, just incorporating more of your current skillset. Don't do a Masters. While you're finishing your core reqs, find a great lab and work for them for the next year. If you love it and are set on the MD-PhD, another year in research isn't going to set you back that much. If you like it OK but would be fine with just an MD, go ahead and apply. Ignore the recommendation about having a science-related degree - you have a good enough science GPA that that is irrelevant.

 

[mbig]

Rowany, i really appreciate the reply!

The switch was because i (thought) i needed a business type job due to the small amout of physical exertion. I also needed to finish college quickly. There are some aspects which i enjoy, though i enjoy the physical sciences and all of the nitty gritty much more.

Why do you say not to do a masters? The most it'll push me back is 1 year, and there's always a chance that i could get it paid for. Wouldn't it look much better for applications if i do well in a master's, along with the addition research? I feel like my current overall gpa is slacking which this could make up for.

 

[StIGMA]

Rowany, i really appreciate the reply!

The switch was because i (thought) i needed a business type job due to the small amout of physical exertion. I also needed to finish college quickly. There are some aspects which i enjoy, though i enjoy the physical sciences and all of the nitty gritty much more.

Why do you say not to do a masters? The most it'll push me back is 1 year, and there's always a chance that i could get it paid for. Wouldn't it look much better for applications if i do well in a master's, along with the addition research? I feel like my current overall gpa is slacking which this could make up for.

Classes for a master's degree do not impact your undergraduate GPA. The classes are also known/thought to be graded very favorably (so a good GPA in one doesn't tell you much). There is no significant benefit to doing a 1 year master's program.

 

[ratherbefishing]

How old will you be when you start MD/PhD?

 

[gutonc]

I'm still trying to figure out why you even want to do MD/PhD in the first place. You have virtually no research experience and as near as I can tell from your posts, other than "passion" you don't really have a good reason for wanting to do either science or medicine.

If you really want to pursue either (or both) of these careers, you need to take a step back and spend some time really exploring those fields. Do some volunteering/shadowing, work in a lab, ditch the idea of the Master's program...that's just a waste of time and/or money, decide what you want to be when you grow up, and go from there.

TBH, even if you're 100% sold on the idea of an MD/PhD program, you're at least 2-3 years out from being even remotely ready to apply (pre-reqs, research experience, all the other crap). So now we're talking about 10-12 years before you finish and then another 3-10 years after that before you get a real job in medicine or science. If you're 20 (which I doubt), that's a little nuts, but not the end of the world. If you're 30 that's just a stupid idea.

 

[mbig]

I studied Biochemistry for 2 years and did research within a lab for a little over a year - within that time I co-authored 1 paper. I loved it, along with every other science course i've taken (I also did astrophysics when I was an engineering major). Now that i'm working as a consultant within the business world, i realize how much more I enjoyed studying science over business. I honestly enjoy 'consulting' - just find the business portion to be dry and boring.

As for the medicine side of it- you're right, i haven't shadowed or done anything like that. When I was a kid I was in and out of hospitals, on chemo, etc etc and since then I've always been fascinated by it. I feel I have the capability to do well in med school and be able to help other people. But, to be honest, it's more than just helping other people - I honestly have a passion for the field and find everything to deal with it to be interesting. Me wanting to go to med school is nothing new, but now I feel I can actually go - so I want to give it a shot. I'd rather do that then wonder what if when i'm older. I have thought about what i want to be when I "grow up" and this is the answer, which is why I'm trying to figure out the path!

I have talked to a few advisers within phd/md programs lately, and they actually support the idea of a masters program. Many programs have aid and stipends, but even beyond that it'll give me a great research backing.

I appreciate your reply, thank you for taking time to help people like me.