Not sure if I want to be a doctor anymore...

[ResidentAnonymous001]

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[Crayola227]

Finish your residency and get board certified before pursuing anything else. That will help you transition to something you like better the most, and give you more fallback plan freedom.

 

[EthylMethylMan]

Before I get into anything else, if you're feeling depressed, seek professional help. If you're having thoughts of harming yourself, seek help immediately and take a leave of absence to figure things out.

If you don't mind sharing, what field are you in? And do you know why you feel dissatisfied? Is it the work of your field itself that doesn't do it for you? Is it the fact that you're lower on the totem pole and not seeing your decision making in patient care? Or something else altogether? Honing in on the specific issues will help determine your best course of action. If it's simply the nature of your specialty that you don't like, changing specialties is possible, especially this early in the year and with a PGY-1 complete. If you don't like patient care, and you're in a field where you see patients, you can look into pathology or radiology.

If you really can't see yourself doing medicine in any form, but you think you can get through your residency without significant mental health issues, you should see residency through. For one thing, it's a livable income. Bird in the hand kind of situation. For another, you may come to like medicine when you're influencing care more as a senior resident and aren't basically a chart donkey. Even if you don't come around to liking it, you can make plans for a career change without instantly going to $0 income. And there are more options available to physicians with a residency under their belt. If you finish residency and can't see yourself at least content doing medicine, then absolutely do something else.

 

[anonperson]

I am currently a 2nd-year resident, and I had some doubts about clinical medicine since my 3rd year of med school; however, with the amount of time/money invested into this career, I continued on although I could not say I was looking forward to becoming a doctor. I had tunnel vision when I chose to pursue pre-med back in undergrad as I was naive about the amount of growth/ opportunities other fields (tech, business) offered. I understand other careers have their own set of stressors, but nothing seems as bad as the long path of becoming a physician including working in a hospital, difficult patients, lack of respect, delayed gratification, etc.

I finally decided on a more laid-back specialty that is tolerable, but I find myself questioning "what if" and feeling a lack of meaning in my life. I am never excited to get up and start my day...

Some days I feel more motivated than others, but I continue on because I feel I have no other options at this point financially/years of my life dedicated to medicine. There may be "non-clinical" jobs for physicians out there, but I do not know how attainable/ how much of a pay cut it would be to pursue them.

Does anyone else have these thoughts? I'm feeling stuck.

What exactly do you want to do instead?

Business is vague. What exactly does that mean to you?

You can always join a consulting company and work. It will be a pay cut with mandatory travel but it may make you happier.

It's hard to make any final decisions as a resident. You are inherently disrespected because you are low on the totem pole. You don't know your job that well and it makes the job more unpleasant.

Life as an attending is multiple times better. You know more stuff. Patients come to see you specifically. The job gets easier.

 

[AD04]

Maybe my story will resonate with you:

3rd update: "CA license, but no board cert. How to get life back on track with a baby?"

To recap: Back in November 2017, I was a new father and was desperate to get back into medicine. I thought my best bet would be to get back into residency (I was hoping to get into anesthesiology back then). In September 2018, I began what I thought was going to be a temporary work taking care...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[guytakingboards]

Agree with everything said. If there's an underlying mental health issue, look into that first.

That being said, the mid-portion of residency is definitely the dog days of summer. You're well into the path but still have years head of you. You're getting to the more difficult portions of residency (e.g. taking call for the first time). As mentioned, you have little to no control of your job.

It gets better. It gets better as a senior resident, better as a fellow, better as an attending. I'd say trust the process, but at the minimum understand there is a process and where you are in it.

And just get some more perspective. My friends and family members all bitch about their jobs. Can't say I know anyone that loves their job and couldn't live without it. Some find more meaning in it than others. Almost none of them have the income and job security I have.

If this is your first real job (like it was for me), you may not yet have developed the tools to overcome tough periods in the job. Doesn't necessarily mean the job itself is bad, it just means that you have growth to do/resiliency to develop. Tough times in jobs happen. But they happen in all fields. You gotta decide for yourself if this is truly a medicine problem or a doldrums problem.

 

[ResidentAnonymous001]

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[SharonShares]

I will admit I have baseline anxiety/depression that gets exacerbated with stressors/ruminations that I need to seek help for.

I think it's a lot to do with comparing myself to friends who work in tech/finance and they get to enjoy their youth, build wealth, travel/enjoy life, and work on cool projects/ in nice offices. All of this sounds much more glamorous than what the life of a doctor entails, and I admit I was ignorant of all of this when I decided to pursue medicine.

With that said, I will likely finish residency and see what other opportunities I can pursue after and perhaps only work part-time in medicine. I am a pretty risk-averse person, so I don't think I have it in me to quit just yet.

First, seek help! You'll be amazed how much better you will feel.

As for the comparison, it's like Facebook and Instagram, it looks like lush green grass from the outside, but the truth is likely different. Many of those friends would trade places with you in a heartbeat.

If you can finish, I highly recommend it. No one can take away what you earned, and it is difficult to get back into residency if you changed your mind again in the future. Once completed, you don't have to do clinical medicine, but you'll have a safety net to return to.

Please, seek help. Best of luck. The community is here for you, or you can contact me directly.

 

[Saddleshoes]

I have known a few residents that felt this way in the middle of the fight. In each case after they got beyond the hospital the road became smoother for them.
---After you finish with your residency and get into the "real world" you might discover things are a lot less stressful. The academic BS brings on a bunch of needless mental load.
---In the real world you may be able to find a nice niche that suits you perfectly.
---In residency you cannot say no. In the real world you can refuse to deal with lots of difficult stuff. Being able to say NO makes a big difference in ones professional outlook.

 

[shaggybill]

Everything you're saying is what I felt in second year.

I can tell you one thing. You will NEVER regret finishing residency and getting board certified. Once you have that, so many different opportunities suddenly open up. Some not even related to the practice of medicine. Stick out it. Seek help for ways to manage and cope. These are definitely the dog days of training. But stick it out.

 

[LADoc00]

Folks the rate of depression and suicide in clinical medicine is insane. There is entire Amazon Prime show (Terminal List) about a conspiracy to test some new biopharma med on Navy SEALS because their rate of suicide is getting too high when the reality is a female internist has a higher suicide rate than a Navy SEAL after a lifetime of combat deployments to the middle east...digest that a moment.

The suicide and depression rate for clinical physicians isnt merely high, ITS THE HIGHEST OF ANY JOB. Stop, think about the fact you paid six figures for an education that has a higher rate of causing you to kill yourself than being a prostitute!

Society needs people to care for the sick and frankly doesnt give one thought about the fact those people are dying in absolutely dizzying numbers.

The AMA members are literally dying at a rate higher than combat deployed US Marines to Afghanistan and the AMA leadership cares more about scoring political points on gun control, opioids and abortion! Patients dont give a SH-T about their doctors.

This profession isnt just sick, its insane. My best friend from residency killed himself, my chief resident from medical school killed himself and on match day I watched a classmate leap out of a 30 story building because he failed to get into Ortho....

So yes do something other than clinical medicine. The fact you are seeing that now this early means you have a guardian angel watching over you. And tell your attendings to GFO. Attendings are worse than Russian field officers in Ukraine.

I saw an attending barely shrug his shoulders when he was told one of his interns tried to kill herself with a gun. I hope they all rot in Hell.

 

[Fpg1245]

Folks the rate of depression and suicide in clinical medicine is insane. There is entire Amazon Prime show (Terminal List) about a conspiracy to test some new biopharma med on Navy SEALS because their rate of suicide is getting too high when the reality is a female internist has a higher suicide rate than a Navy SEAL after a lifetime of combat deployments to the middle east...digest that a moment.

The suicide and depression rate for clinical physicians isnt merely high, ITS THE HIGHEST OF ANY JOB. Stop, think about the fact you paid six figures for an education that has a higher rate of causing you to kill yourself than being a prostitute!

Society needs people to care for the sick and frankly doesnt give one thought about the fact those people are dying in absolutely dizzying numbers.

The AMA members are literally dying at a rate higher than combat deployed US Marines to Afghanistan and the AMA leadership cares more about scoring political points on gun control, opioids and abortion! Patients dont give a SH-T about their doctors.

This profession isnt just sick, its insane. My best friend from residency killed himself, my chief resident from medical school killed himself and on match day I watched a classmate leap out of a 30 story building because he failed to get into Ortho....

So yes do something other than clinical medicine. The fact you are seeing that now this early means you have a guardian angel watching over you. And tell your attendings to GFO. Attendings are worse than Russian field officers in Ukraine.

I saw an attending barely shrug his shoulders when he was told one of his interns tried to kill herself with a gun. I hope they all rot in Hell.

Nobody respects doctors and doctors hate themselves, especially in urban areas where most people live that are well apportioned with all sorts of hungry pathologic overachiever super sub specialists that they can now beckon on FaceTime. I guess my attendings had evolved...mine loved to play mind games with deliriously tired interns and then interrogate them about decisions they made over the night and then barrage you with meeting after meeting. It's a great deal of self-loathing that just has been passed on.

 

[operaman]

Joining the chorus to stick it out and finish. It’s less than 2 years and you’ll have many more options if you do. You’ve already slogged through the hardest parts; just keep at it a bit more and reap the benefits.

There’s a lot more leeway to customize your work life balance when you finish training. For all the numbers about suicide- something tells me they’re exaggerated - I’m surrounded every day by ridiculously happy docs who make a great living and seem to have a great work life balance. It may not end up being right for you, but it has the potential to be a great fit for many people.

 

[guytakingboards]

Folks the rate of depression and suicide in clinical medicine is insane. There is entire Amazon Prime show (Terminal List) about a conspiracy to test some new biopharma med on Navy SEALS because their rate of suicide is getting too high when the reality is a female internist has a higher suicide rate than a Navy SEAL after a lifetime of combat deployments to the middle east...digest that a moment.

The suicide and depression rate for clinical physicians isnt merely high, ITS THE HIGHEST OF ANY JOB. Stop, think about the fact you paid six figures for an education that has a higher rate of causing you to kill yourself than being a prostitute!

Society needs people to care for the sick and frankly doesnt give one thought about the fact those people are dying in absolutely dizzying numbers.

The AMA members are literally dying at a rate higher than combat deployed US Marines to Afghanistan and the AMA leadership cares more about scoring political points on gun control, opioids and abortion! Patients dont give a SH-T about their doctors.

This profession isnt just sick, its insane. My best friend from residency killed himself, my chief resident from medical school killed himself and on match day I watched a classmate leap out of a 30 story building because he failed to get into Ortho....

So yes do something other than clinical medicine. The fact you are seeing that now this early means you have a guardian angel watching over you. And tell your attendings to GFO. Attendings are worse than Russian field officers in Ukraine.

I saw an attending barely shrug his shoulders when he was told one of his interns tried to kill herself with a gun. I hope they all rot in Hell.

So you're saying there's a mental health crisis in medicine and to just throw away a decade of their life instead of attempting to address the mental health component first?

 

[LADoc00]

So you're saying there's a mental health crisis in medicine and to just throw away a decade of their life instead of attempting to address the mental health component first?

"Address the mental health component"?

I worked for my state's medical board for over a decade, saw behind the curtain of the great and powerful Oz, do you know how they "treat" mental health in modern medicine??

They suspend your license, force you attend mandatory therapy with a provider who reports their findings to the board. You will have no secrets, no privacy and no dignity and there is no timeframe they will ever let this drop as well, your patients and colleagues will abandon you as damaged goods.

And now they are planning in many states to install civilian leadership in state boards who want to release everything to the press in the name of "transparency."

So your significant other, mom, dad, siblings, coworkers, mailman, employer, people you are dating etc can read about your depression and suicidal thoughts! Ive watched people's lives descend to a level of previously unimaginable hell from all the "help" they are getting with their mental health crisis in medicine...

 

[LADoc00]

This needs to be stickied at the top of every speciality forum.

Sadly, lots of us simply have too much debt. I am north of 400. I quite literally have no other option but to continue on.

It regret this route 24/7, 365.

Literally just listen to your own thoughts in careful self reflection for a moment. Dont even bother listening to me, a total internet stranger.

What you just said is literally the plot of the Squid Game. You and the rest of your cohort are in Squid Games. Im not trying to be humorous, just pointing out the actual reality.

 

[deleted1116990]

LADoc00's posts really hit home.

Want to take a few months off because you are mentally overwhelmed and need a break for your own well-being? Or just want to travel for an enrichment experience and live a fulfilling life? You will have to explain that "gap" for literally the rest of your career and hope future employers and boards accept your explanation. They will assume you had a mental breakdown, were on drugs, were in jail, or some combination of the above. And suppose you did have those things? Why are doctors not allowed to take the time to fix these things without having their ability to ever earn a decent living again jeopardized?

In retrospect, my time in med school and residency were the some of the best years of my life. There was a defined end, you had defined tasks, and the expectations were clear that you were temporary and nobody cared about you. It's pretty hard to screw up if you just show up. I did a relatively easy residency (rad onc), but I even look back fondly on intern year. Never did I expect that the quality of my life would become dramatically worse after residency. I was told that once you got through residency everything would be better when you are on your own. Yes, there is a large pay increase, but these are golden handcuffs. What you also find is a malignant system that is hostile towards physicians and administrators and partners that attempt to squeeze you dry with no regard at all for your personal well-being. The money is what draws people to this career, but it is also the source of so many problems. You give up so much of your life to get to the point where you earn far more than most Americans; however, you have to work in an environment where the disdain (largely over how much you are paid) from others in healthcare, especially administrators, is palpable and they will do what they can to demoralize you, make you feel replaceable, and overall make you miserable. It is worse if you have chosen a field with limited job options (rad onc, path, EM, etc).

No, I don't know as many people that killed themselves, but depression, hopelessness, substance abuse, marital problems? Sure, everywhere. You say you want to do something else, but you are too old to learn a new career and are afraid to let go the only way you have to be financially secure, so you just suck it up and time passes extraordinarily fast without much meaning in your life and human interactions just begin to lose that thing that made them human.

I used to have many hobbies, friends, and an exciting and enriching personal life before and during medical training. Now I often come home, order takeout, and pass out on the couch watching youtube from mental and physical exhaustion during the day, and my hours are some of the best in medicine. I suspect I am not alone.

 

[LADoc00]

The Illuminati-like organization that controls healthcare in the US (syndicate of government, insurance, academia and biopharma) will inform you of your golden handcuff payout when the games are over...

 

[LADoc00]

I mean hey I don’t disagree. But unless you want to charitably donate 400,000 to my go fund me there quite literally is no other option to pay off my debt AND have a life not in the ghetto

Capone, I fully understand. Price your services accordingly. Monetize everything you do to pay that off as fast as possible.

And get rest tonight, the games begin again tomorrow....

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Man y'all must work in some horrible settings.

I am well paid, administration is pretty hands off the majority of the time, my patients like/respect me, and everyone else I know in the area in my field (FM) is pretty happy with what they do.

 

[Kaustikos]

This needs to be stickied at the top of every speciality forum.

Sadly, lots of us simply have too much debt. I am north of 400. I quite literally have no other option but to continue on.

It regret this route 24/7, 365.

You do realize there are programs that forgive loans if you make the bare minimum payment for 10 years, right? I get 400 is a lot, but as long as you stick to a non-profit hospital and make the minimum income based repayment, you'll be fine. You just have to be sure to consolidate your loans before starting your job.
Food for thought.

As an aside; second year I was bored with Medicine and didn't give any thought to specializing. I did lose interest. But that happens.

 

[Kaustikos]

Man y'all must work in some horrible settings.

I am well paid, administration is pretty hands off the majority of the time, my patients like/respect me, and everyone else I know in the area in my field (FM) is pretty happy with what they do.

You've also been an Attending for god knows how long

 

[RangerBob]

Man y'all must work in some horrible settings.

I am well paid, administration is pretty hands off the majority of the time, my patients like/respect me, and everyone else I know in the area in my field (FM) is pretty happy with what they do.

I’m in the same boat

I enjoy what I do. Admin never tells me what to do. Patients have a ton of respect for physicians where I live. We get paid great, have great hours, plenty of time off.

Would I love to just get paid to be a gardener all day? Absolutely. But I make enough to afford a home in coastal CA with a yard (no small feat here) and get home twice a week by 1pm to spend time alone in my garden. I see my family all the time. What more does one need in life?

 

[Iamnew2]

I’m in the same boat

I enjoy what I do. Admin never tells me what to do. Patients have a ton of respect for physicians where I live. We get paid great, have great hours, plenty of time off.

Would I love to just get paid to be a gardener all day? Absolutely. But I make enough to afford a home in coastal CA with a yard (no small feat here) and get home twice a week by 1pm to spend time alone in my garden. I see my family all the time. What more does one need in life?

I am jealous! Our CEO literally sits in our meetings to discuss daily admissions and tells us what the "target admission goal" is. I think you are blessed to have a hands off administration. That is awesome.

 

[Kaustikos]

I’m in the same boat

I enjoy what I do. Admin never tells me what to do. Patients have a ton of respect for physicians where I live. We get paid great, have great hours, plenty of time off.

Would I love to just get paid to be a gardener all day? Absolutely. But I make enough to afford a home in coastal CA with a yard (no small feat here) and get home twice a week by 1pm to spend time alone in my garden. I see my family all the time. What more does one need in life?

For this to be obtainable by everyone. Reality is: an Attending gets to that point based on their reputation. I'm guessing that your work ethic and reputation is what got you this far. Which is great!! I'm happy. But there's definitely a process and part of it is residency which can be a ****e show depending on where you are. Also can be the same if you make a bad mistake in choosing a hospital to work at as an attending.

Again, not arguing. You guys are helping a lot by showing how things can be good. Appreciate it.
(also, have a great lifestyle too.)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

For this to be obtainable by everyone. Reality is: an Attending gets to that point based on their reputation. I'm guessing that your work ethic and reputation is what got you this far. Which is great!! I'm happy. But there's definitely a process and part of it is residency which can be a ****e show depending on where you are. Also can be the same if you make a bad mistake in choosing a hospital to work at as an attending.

Again, not arguing. You guys are helping a lot by showing how things can be good. Appreciate it.
(also, have a great lifestyle too.)

A good setup is key. If you have that, you have less to prove. And with a bad job you might never do enough for things to get better.

 

[RangerBob]

Agree--setup is key.

Frankly, I don't think I'm a super hard worker (I don't think I'm a slacker either), but just the fact I was available/showed up and committed to my rehab unit won me tons of points. Lots of other docs left after just a year or so because they had no ties to the area. I don't think I'm the smartest PM&R physician, but I do think I'm easy to work with, so that's helped a lot.

 

[Iamnew2]

Agree--setup is key.

Frankly, I don't think I'm a super hard worker (I don't think I'm a slacker either), but just the fact I was available/showed up and committed to my rehab unit won me tons of points. Lots of other docs left after just a year or so because they had no ties to the area. I don't think I

 

[EaglesAllDay]

Honestly, I think everyone goes through this phase. For me, the struggle was to get into residency and my main source of adverse mental health. Was able to match after 3 years. Every year it got harder and harder on me mentally to the point I was like this is my last attempt if it works out cool if it doesn't thats fine too. Hopefully you have one of your breaks soon where u can get some time and recharge. Having supportive friends and family are a godsend. Residency is tough no matter what field you are in but it gets better, much better. Jobs are endless out there and you can do whatever you want once u have ur degree in hand. I love my job as a nocturninst, don't deal with the social bs and only work 12 nights a night which is still considered full time. Im making decent money too, but I could def make a lot more if I worked more or a diff less concentrated area but it all comes down to work life balance and what u prefer. Dm me if you want to talk. Hope things work out for you!

 

[operaman]

Man y'all must work in some horrible settings.

I am well paid, administration is pretty hands off the majority of the time, my patients like/respect me, and everyone else I know in the area in my field (FM) is pretty happy with what they do.

Echoing this sentiment here. I’m still in my first year out but I seem to have also found a unicorn of a job. Great hands off admin, high salary, great hours, amazing patients, etc. I make more than any of my chairmen did and my work life balance is awesome. I definitely work hard when I’m working, but over QOL is fantastic.

It’s certainly possible to have things good. Setup is definitely key and I really did stumble into a wonderful situation here with fantastic partners. Unless something major changes I’ll probably stay here indefinitely.

 

[JKinSC]

What more does one need in life?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women...


(It's a joke, I promise. I'm pretty damned content with my practice as is.)