not trying to start a war but....

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did daddy not love you enough? i love to hear from these self righteous, forced into medical school, told to be number 1 or they are no good students. your life must be very depressing that you need to speak like this to make yourself feel superior, when we can all see that it is far from the case.
Lemont said:
If you consider one of the hardest med schools to get into with one of the best track records for competitive matches "crappy", then I wonder what that makes your D.O. school? :laugh:
 
Lemont, are you bashing D.O.s to make yourself feel better?
Are you a student at an 'unranked' medschool? Who cares? Are you even a medical student? Give it a rest.

Sure, there are terrible DO's and IMGs out there. But by sheer numbers there are probably many more mediocre American-trained MDs out there.
On the flip side I have worked along side brilliant doctors from all backgrounds:MDs, DOs, MBBSs.

Get a clue, man.
 
Looks like the D.O.s are resorting to personal attacks because they don't like what they are hearing. Which is very typical.

I am not "bashing" D.O.s, I am just stating what we all know, but some of you can't (or won't) come to terms with. As they say people convince themselves to believe what they need to in order to protect their egos. And that is a common theme I have found with D.O.s when they get defensive, which they usually do when somebody examines the real reasons they went to D.O. school.

You may be able to talk your way around why you "chose" to go to D.O. school with patients and other people who are not familiar with how medical school works, but those of us who are in this know the real reason(s). I know it's not politically correct to say so and it may bruise some fragile egos, but the real reason most people go to D.O. school is because they couldn't get into a M.D. school in the U.S. It's as simple as that. But D.O. students will spin it in a number of ways to make themselves (as well as others) think they "chose" to go the D.O. route. As I said, people will try to believe what they need to in order to make themselves feel better. And part of that is to try to convince other people of it too.

Look, when I was in undergrad there was a big group of us who wanted to go to med school. None of us said we wanted to go to a D.O. school from the outset. Those of us who got high grades and high MCAT scores got into M.D. schools. Those who didn't do as well got rejected and either tried again the next year for M.D. schools or went the D.O. route. I still keep in touch with a few of them who are in D.O. schools and I am sure they will make competent physicians. It's not so much a question of competency that is as much a stigma for D.O.s as is the inferiority complex so many of them have about their degree which manifests itself as defensive and constantly trying to justify themselves, as well as their attitude when somebody brings it up---an attitude which the D.O.s have shown here.
 
Lemont said:
Looks like the D.O.s are resorting to personal attacks because they don't like what they are hearing. Which is very typical.

I am not "bashing" D.O.s, I am just stating what we all know, but some of you can't (or won't) come to terms with. As they say people convince themselves to believe what they need to in order to protect their egos. And that is a common theme I have found with D.O.s when they get defensive, which they usually do when somebody examines the real reasons they went to D.O. school.

You may be able to talk your way around why you "chose" to go to D.O. school with patients and other people who are not familiar with how medical school works, but those of us who are in this know the real reason(s). I know it's not politically correct to say so and it may bruise some fragile egos, but the real reason most people go to D.O. school is because they couldn't get into a M.D. school in the U.S. It's as simple as that. But D.O. students will spin it in a number of ways to make themselves (as well as others) think they "chose" to go the D.O. route. As I said, people will try to believe what they need to in order to make themselves feel better. And part of that is to try to convince other people of it too.

Look, when I was in undergrad there was a big group of us who wanted to go to med school. None of us said we wanted to go to a D.O. school from the outset. Those of us who got high grades and high MCAT scores got into M.D. schools. Those who didn't do as well got rejected and either tried again the next year for M.D. schools or went the D.O. route. I still keep in touch with a few of them who are in D.O. schools and I am sure they will make competent physicians. It's not so much a question of competency that is as much a stigma for D.O.s as is the inferiority complex so many of them have about their degree which manifests itself as defensive and constantly trying to justify themselves, as well as their attitude when somebody brings it up---an attitude which the D.O.s have shown here.
Obviously you are a insecure person yourself or you wouldn't bring this kind of stuff up. I often find that it's people like you who worry about stigmas and reputation that are far more insecure than the person you are picking on. Sure people will get defensive, go over to your neighbor and tell him his wife is ugly, do you think he will defend his decision to marry her? Yes! Everyone has their reasons for going a path in life, I chose D.O. b/c my physician was a D.O. and loved where he went to school. I have clearly seen a personality difference between people like yourself and me. Basically, you will have ulcers way before I will b/c you must constantly antagonize others to make yourself feel better. If you were to pick on me, I would just laugh at you b/c med school is medschool! I would tell you if you have a problem with me being a D.O. consult your local Psych doctor for counsel. Please, if I can be of any assistance pulling your head out of your A$$ let me know!

Signed,
Future D.O.
 
allendo said:
Obviously you are a insecure person yourself or you wouldn't bring this kind of stuff up. I often find that it's people like you who worry about stigmas and reputation that are far more insecure than the person you are picking on. Sure people will get defensive, go over to your neighbor and tell him his wife is ugly, do you think he will defend his decision to marry her? Yes! Everyone has their reasons for going a path in life, I chose D.O. b/c my physician was a D.O. and loved where he went to school. I have clearly seen a personality difference between people like yourself and me. Basically, you will have ulcers way before I will b/c you must constantly antagonize others to make yourself feel better. If you were to pick on me, I would just laugh at you b/c med school is medschool! I would tell you if you have a problem with me being a D.O. consult your local Psych doctor for counsel. Please, if I can be of any assistance pulling your head out of your A$$ let me know!

Signed,
Future D.O.

Thanks for proving my point once again by resorting to personal attacks. Your post reflects exactly the kind of defensive, angry, and insecure attitudes I've seen with so many D.O. students. And nice of you to try to use the lame "you are a insecure person yourself or you wouldn't bring this kind of stuff up" argument. Just because you don't like hearing the reality that most D.O. students are those who couldn't get into an M.D. school in the States does not make it any less true or make the person who brought it up "insecure" for doing so. You can deny the reality of the situation to make yourself feel better if you want, but the reality still remains.

And try not to take it so personally---nobody is "picking" on you because you're getting a D.O. degree. That right there tells me you are already developing an inferiority complex over your chosen path. That's not a good start.
 
Lemont said:
Thanks for proving my point once again by resorting to personal attacks. Your post reflects exactly the kind of defensive, angry, and insecure attitudes I've seen with so many D.O. students. And nice of you to try to use the lame "you are a insecure person yourself or you wouldn't bring this kind of stuff up" argument. Just because you don't like hearing the reality that most D.O. students are those who couldn't get into an M.D. school in the States does not make it any less true or make the person who brought it up "insecure" for doing so. You can deny the reality of the situation to make yourself feel better if you want, but the reality still remains.

And try not to take it so personally---nobody is "picking" on you because you're getting a D.O. degree. That right there tells me you are already developing an inferiority complex over your chosen path. That's not a good start.
So I'm insecure for pointing out that your stuck on certain stigmas. Personally, I'm proud that I'm going to a D.O. school. The town I'm from has M.D.'s and D.O.'s in every branch of medicne and they work together often in the same groups. The thing I don't understand is that your attitude seems to reflect the fact that you think of a D.O. as a second class doctor. The fact is that we are both regulated on the federal and state levels and held to the same standards, so how could we ever be second class. That's like saying that someone who is of different ethnic background with the same degree is somehow below you. I personally believe that there is no difference in the quality of training. Once we graduate, we all practice American medicine, that has slightly shifted in the past couple of years. I think that without both the M.D.'s and D.O.'s our profession would not be as good as it is today. M.D.'s have shifted to wanting a better doc/pt relationship and have become more wholistic(I wonder where they got that idea???) and D.O.'s have used alot less OMT and more mainstream medicine. So both branches have made each other better. So no I'm not insecure, just wanted to point out a few things you said in your post. I will never understand why stigmas exist against D.O.'s, yet carrib grads and FMG's are allowed into this country every day. Yet, I don't consider them any less than I, just that D.O. and M.D.'s that are trained in America are held to the same standards. The fact is that I wanted to be a doctor, and have always seen Osteopathic doctors. I don't care about the ranking of my medschool or residency, how good of a physician I become will carry me further in my life.
 
allendo said:
So I'm insecure for pointing out that your stuck on certain stigmas. Personally, I'm proud that I'm going to a D.O. school. The town I'm from has M.D.'s and D.O.'s in every branch of medicne and they work together often in the same groups. The thing I don't understand is that your attitude seems to reflect the fact that you think of a D.O. as a second class doctor. The fact is that we are both regulated on the federal and state levels and held to the same standards, so how could we ever be second class. That's like saying that someone who is of different ethnic background with the same degree is somehow below you. I personally believe that there is no difference in the quality of training. Once we graduate, we all practice American medicine, that has slightly shifted in the past couple of years. I think that without both the M.D.'s and D.O.'s our profession would not be as good as it is today. M.D.'s have shifted to wanting a better doc/pt relationship and have become more wholistic(I wonder where they got that idea???) and D.O.'s have used alot less OMT and more mainstream medicine. So both branches have made each other better. So no I'm not insecure, just wanted to point out a few things you said in your post. I will never understand why stigmas exist against D.O.'s, yet carrib grads and FMG's are allowed into this country every day. Yet, I don't consider them any less than I, just that D.O. and M.D.'s that are trained in America are held to the same standards. The fact is that I wanted to be a doctor, and have always seen Osteopathic doctors. I don't care about the ranking of my medschool or residency, how good of a physician I become will carry me further in my life.

Perhaps you didn't read my prior posts. I said M.D. and D.O. degrees are equal. However, most people who go to D.O. schools do so because they couldn't get into U.S. M.D. schools. I don't know why it angers D.O. students when this is brought up to the point they start launching personal attacks. That is the reality of the situation whether you want to accept it or not. Maybe inside they believe they are "second class doctors" as you yourself alluded to since they couldn't get into M.D. schools. In that case they are perpetuating the stigma on themselves and projecting as if it is others doing so. If you are secure about your degree then it should not matter what others think.
 
Lemont said:
Perhaps you didn't read my prior posts. I said M.D. and D.O. degrees are equal. However, most people who go to D.O. schools do so because they couldn't get into U.S. M.D. schools. I don't know why it angers D.O. students when this is brought up to the point they start launching personal attacks. That is the reality of the situation whether you want to accept it or not. Maybe inside they believe they are "second class doctors" as you yourself alluded to since they couldn't get into M.D. schools. In that case they are perpetuating the stigma on themselves and projecting as if it is others doing so. If you are secure about your degree then it should not matter what others think.
Personally, I don't care what you think I thought you sounded like a prick and wanted to irritate you. I've read your other post telling people who failed their first exam maybe they should rethink their career choice! Nice work, that's a great way to encourage people. Lets think how many successful people have not failed at something before they mastered it?? Our country was founded on failures that were turned into success. Unless you have a counseling degree quit giving people advice on their lives. I love people like you, you make my life fun.
 
allendo said:
Personally, I don't care what you think I thought you sounded like a prick and wanted to irritate you. I've read your other post telling people who failed their first exam maybe they should rethink their career choice! Nice work, that's a great way to encourage people. Lets think how many successful people have not failed at something before they mastered it?? Our country was founded on failures that were turned into success. Unless you have a counseling degree quit giving people advice on their lives. I love people like you, you make my life fun.


It seems you are getting frustrated and resorting to more personal attacks. I guess we should just agree to disagree on this since you can't discuss it without getting agitated and going off-topic. All the best in finishing your D.O. degree and hopefully by the time you do you won't be trying so hard to justify it because you'll be secure in the path you've chosen. Good luck.
 
Lemont said:
It seems you are getting frustrated and resorting to more personal attacks. I guess we should just agree to disagree on this since you can't discuss it without getting agitated and going off-topic. All the best in finishing your D.O. degree and hopefully by the time you do you won't be trying so hard to justify it because you'll be secure in the path you've chosen. Good luck.
Why do you take everything so personally, are you insecure? You consistently think I'm personally attacking you! Do you think the whole world is against you or something?
 
Lemont said:
It seems you are getting frustrated and resorting to more personal attacks. I guess we should just agree to disagree on this since you can't discuss it without getting agitated and going off-topic. All the best in finishing your D.O. degree and hopefully by the time you do you won't be trying so hard to justify it because you'll be secure in the path you've chosen. Good luck.

Hahahaha you're absolutely ridiculous. Do you just sit in your room all day antagonizing people over the internet?
You attack and then accuse people of being defensive - how stupid is that?
It's a fact most DO's went to DO school because they couldn't get into MD school? Could you provide me with the survey of applicants/students that provides concrete evidence of this FACT? Oh, wait, I forgot - you have a couple friends who went to DO school for this reason. By the way, did it occur to you that maybe most people don't consider going to DO school earlier in undergrad because they weren't familiar with it?
Here's a fact for you since you're fond of them - most people who go to MD school have always had a hard time getting laid. Don't get defensive, it's just a fact. 🙄
 
Don't worry though, theres plenty of diabetic and ischemic foot disease to go around.

too funny! :laugh:
 
i was glad to see that you, lemont, were banned for trolling which is defined on SDN as "The term troll is a slang term used to describe a number of things, traditionally it refers to a person who posts items intended to incite controversy or conflict. An individual posting honestly-held but controversial opinions is welcome at SDN. However, trolls are not. A troll's primary incentive is the incitement of conflict. Trolls often resort to verbal abuse, making inflammatory remarks maligning the motivation of other guests. Those guests that behave in this manner will be banned immediately and without notice. Banned trolls that return to the SDN Forums will be immediately banned again upon identification of their new account. Those who repeatedly return to troll will have their IP address blocked."

thankfully this site has been great enough for people to voice their opinions, but when they become inflammatory on purpose with no basis, they are removed. whomever did this, i applaud you.

Lemont said:
It seems you are getting frustrated and resorting to more personal attacks. I guess we should just agree to disagree on this since you can't discuss it without getting agitated and going off-topic. All the best in finishing your D.O. degree and hopefully by the time you do you won't be trying so hard to justify it because you'll be secure in the path you've chosen. Good luck.
 
Lemont said:
I heard that from a doctor who was named in a malpractice suit along with several other doctors. Apparently one of the doctors was a D.O. and the prosecuter tried to make the D.O. look incompetent by asking sarcastic questions about his degree and why he was the only one of the doctors without a "real medical degree like the other doctors", etc. You can just imagine how sneaky lawyers can get when they want to grill somebody on the stand and make them look foolish in front of the court. The fact that the doctor had to explain his degree, no matter how professionaly he responded, probably cast doubt in the minds of at least some of the jurors who don't know much about medicine anyways. They see anything but an M.D. and red flags go up.

This post is asinine, and is the typical urban legend among pre-meds. For one, despite what you see on TV, the plaintiff's attorney (not the prosecutor, as there is no prosecutor in med-mal cases) cannot just simply out of the blue start asking the defendant why he got a DO instead of an MD. He has to file motions in advance to present the defendant's degree as evidence of the physician's malpractice. The judge, who is likely (although not guaranteed) to know more about MD vs. DO than a jury, will expect some justification as to why such testimony should be allowed. Mean GPA/MCAT will not cut it as justification. Plus, a competent med-mal defense attorney would make sure this never becomes an issue. The fact that DO's can be board certified by any of the medical specialty boards would make a strong case for the defendant.

What if the plaintiff goes ahead and ask questions about the defendant's DO degree anyway? Well, the defense will immediately object, and the question will be stricken. If the plaintiff keeps it up and continues to make an issue, the defendant will move for a mistrial. If not granted, the jury award would likely get reversed on appeal (as many are, BTW).
 
oh yeah, just for a follow up. remember, the osteopathic founder was an MD first, then started osteopathy. can't we all just get along. we are all doctors and share a common path.
 
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