Nothing makes sense anymore

[zero0]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Recently came across this little gem:

https://wire.ama-assn.org/life-career/medical-specialties-highest-burnout-rates

As you'd expect, good ol' EM is leading the pack, but hang on, what is PMR doing way up there? Isn't that supposed to be the chillest specialty ever? Also, what happened to Derm between 2011 and 2014? Is this just a reflection of the overall pattern of decline in the US healthcare system?

 

[Hangry]

I wonder how much of it comes from people chasing money, lifestyle, and prestige rather than going into the field they actually like the most (could relate to urology, ortho, derm, pmr, and em to a degree). Confounded by the fact that people who don't like any part of medicine are also told to go into high paying good lifestyle specialties...or anesthesia/radiology.

But I'm just a naive M4 that has yet to suffer through residency and who wants to believe that choosing a field I love despite its **** lifestyle was the right way to go so take that with a grain of salt. And the range on this list is essentially 40%-70% so are the differences between careers really significant enough to change your residency choice? Everyone is pretty burnt out across the board.

 

[zero0]

The part bugging me the most is the nearly unanimous jump in burnout by ~10% across all specialties. I don't know if more people are going into healthcare for the wrong reasons now or what but this is a sure sign that things are deteriorating overall. Derms burning out is alarming too since that was traditionally the last bastion of any real satisfaction in this field.

 

[Anicetus]

The part bugging me the most is the nearly unanimous jump in burnout by ~10% across all specialties. I don't know if more people are going into healthcare for the wrong reasons now or what but this is a sure sign that things are deteriorating overall. Derms burning out is alarming too since that was traditionally the last bastion of any real satisfaction in this field.

This.

And maybe the fact that a lot of the "doom and gloom" about medicine that is shunned when spoken about on SDN is actually true.

If money was the main reason someone went into medicine, they're f***ed.

 

[alpinism]

I wonder how much of it comes from people chasing money, lifestyle, and prestige rather than going into the field they actually like the most (could relate to urology, ortho, derm, pmr, and em to a degree). Confounded by the fact that people who don't like any part of medicine are also told to go into high paying good lifestyle specialties...or anesthesia/radiology.

But I'm just a naive M4 that has yet to suffer through residency and who wants to believe that choosing a field I love despite its **** lifestyle was the right way to go so take that with a grain of salt. And the range on this list is essentially 40%-70% so are the differences between careers really significant enough to change your residency choice? Everyone is pretty burnt out across the board.

In EM at least there are a ton of people who go into the field for the wrong reasons.

When I was interviewing for residency probably close to half of the applicants I met chose the field in large part because of this perception among medical students that its a short residency with a great lifestyle and salary afterwards. This a especially true for applicants who initially considered surgery or medicine subspecialties but didn't want to put in the long hours or take call for the rest of their career. As a result there are quite a few EM physicians out there who already dislike the job at baseline regardless of other factors. When you then add on all the problems with EM today (Corporate takeover with decreased autonomy, focus on customer satisfaction and profits, dealing with mostly non emergency patients) its easy to see why so many people become burnt out after only a few years.

 

[ERDOC555]

The part bugging me the most is the nearly unanimous jump in burnout by ~10% across all specialties. I don't know if more people are going into healthcare for the wrong reasons now or what but this is a sure sign that things are deteriorating overall. Derms burning out is alarming too since that was traditionally the last bastion of any real satisfaction in this field.

I'm not surprised at all when it comes to the increase in derm burnout over the years.

At least 4 out of 5 people who want to do derm in my class don't even like it. They literally just hear about the "great" lifestyle and want that. None of these people have ever even been in a dermatologists office, let alone shadowed one. It doesn't surprise me that these people wouldn't be satisfied with their job years down the road.

When you're seeing 30-60 patients a day in derm you can get burnt out pretty quickly. It's not some mindless cush job where the doctor comes in and does nothing from 8-5.

I'd take a 50 hour work week in something I enjoy over 40 in something I dislike anyday.

(For the record I obviously like derm, so it's a win-win with hours and enjoyment)

 

[ERDOC555]

In EM at least there are a ton of people who go into the field for the wrong reasons.

When I was interviewing for residency probably close to half of the applicants I met chose the field in large part because of this perception among medical students that its a short residency with a great lifestyle and salary afterwards. This a especially true for applicants who initially considered surgery or medicine subspecialties but didn't want to put in the long hours or take call for the rest of their career. As a result there are quite a few EM physicians out there who already dislike the job at baseline regardless of other factors. When you then add on all the problems with EM today (Corporate takeover with decreased autonomy, focus on customer satisfaction and profits, dealing with mostly non emergency patients) its easy to see why so many people become burnt out after only a few years.

Exactly!

My personal opinion is that Ortho/EM/Derm are the three specialties that attract the type of people who are attracted to the idea of the work, the money, or the lifestyle, but in reality don't actually love the field. By no means am I saying the majority, just a significant proportion.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

This.

And maybe the fact that a lot of the "doom and gloom" about medicine that is shunned when spoken about on SDN is actually true.

If money was the main reason someone went into medicine, they're f***ed.

I've had some anecdotal evidence supporting this. For example, the unhappiest doc I have ever met was an ENT in college. He found out I wanted to go to med school and went on a huge unprofessional rant. H used profanity and got quite worked up when he talked about how he thought he'd be making a lot more money with much less effort and he called medicine a "bait and switch."

 

[Stagg737]

Exactly!

My personal opinion is that Ortho/EM/Derm are the three specialties that attract the type of people who are attracted to the idea of the work, the money, or the lifestyle, but in reality don't actually love the field. By no means am I saying the majority, just a significant proportion.

Eh, disagree with ortho on this one. Most of the ortho guys I know were pretty aware of the amount of work they'd be putting in for their careers and enjoy the field. I think the burnout there comes more from the "work hard play hard" attitude most orthos I've met have as many of them seem to burn the candle at both ends well past their "prime". I think many of them get used to making the massive paychecks and instead of taking a smaller paycheck and relaxing once they're older, they still hold themselves to extremely high expectations and that's when the burnout hits. Maybe others have different experiences with them, but I haven't met many of the younger ortho guys hitting burnout too early. Most of them are machines.

 

[vernhart]

I've had some anecdotal evidence supporting this. For example, the unhappiest doc I have ever met was an ENT in college. He found out I wanted to go to med school and went on a huge unprofessional rant. H used profanity and got quite worked up when he talked about how he thought he'd be making a lot more money with much less effort and he called medicine a "bait and switch."

Idt I will ever understand why people from the highest paying specialties are no more satisfied with their pay (ortho in particular stands out as one that I am always surprised with saying they are not compensated fairly on medscape surveys).

 

[BurghStudent]

Lol, why is neurosurgery low on the list?

 

[NWwildcat2013]

Lol, why is neurosurgery low on the list?

Only the ones who were not in the OR could respond to the survey.

 

[zero0]

In EM at least there are a ton of people who go into the field for the wrong reasons.

When I was interviewing for residency probably close to half of the applicants I met chose the field in large part because of this perception among medical students that its a short residency with a great lifestyle and salary afterwards. This a especially true for applicants who initially considered surgery or medicine subspecialties but didn't want to put in the long hours or take call for the rest of their career. As a result there are quite a few EM physicians out there who already dislike the job at baseline regardless of other factors. When you then add on all the problems with EM today (Corporate takeover with decreased autonomy, focus on customer satisfaction and profits, dealing with mostly non emergency patients) its easy to see why so many people become burnt out after only a few years.

Preach. I've said it before and still strongly beleive that the majority of people currently planning on doing EM are grossly uninformed and will go on to hate their career.

 

[intubesteak]

Preach. I've said it before and still strongly beleive that the majority of people currently planning on doing EM are grossly uninformed and will go on to hate their career.

Sexy on the outside...fat, smelly, and homeless on the inside. But some people are into that 😵

 

[NWwildcat2013]

Sexy on the outside...fat, smelly, and homeless on the inside. But some people are into that 😵

My perception of EM is that the main responsibility is just keeping up with paperwork so that the logjam of patients can continue moving in the right direction.

 

[username456789]

Preach. I've said it before and still strongly beleive that the majority of people currently planning on going to medical school are grossly uninformed and will go on to hate their career.

Fixed that for you.

 

[username456789]

My perception of EM is that the main responsibility is just keeping up with paperwork so that the logjam of patients can continue moving in the right direction.

Again, this describes most specialties in medicine

 

[aalamruad]

The part bugging me the most is the nearly unanimous jump in burnout by ~10% across all specialties. I don't know if more people are going into healthcare for the wrong reasons now or what but this is a sure sign that things are deteriorating overall. Derms burning out is alarming too since that was traditionally the last bastion of any real satisfaction in this field.

Well the stats showing that derm docs are satisfied are actually somewhat misleading; they are simultaneously the most satisfied with their specialty choice (i.e. the most likely to say they'd choose the same specialty again) and among the least likely to be satisfied with going into medicine at all (i.e. most likely to say they'd go into an entirely different profession if they could do it over). This is actually a pretty common trend among various specialties, those who would choose the same specialty again also wouldn't choose medicine at all, and those least satisfied with their specialty choice are most satisfied with going into medicine in general.

 

[username456789]

Well the stats showing that derm docs are satisfied are actually somewhat misleading; they are simultaneously the most satisfied with their specialty choice (i.e. the most likely to say they'd choose the same specialty again) and among the least likely to be satisfied with going into medicine at all (i.e. most likely to say they'd go into an entirely different profession if they could do it over). This is actually a pretty common trend among various specialties, those who would choose the same specialty again also wouldn't choose medicine at all, and those least satisfied with their specialty choice are most satisfied with going into medicine in general.

View attachment 214101

View attachment 214100

Makes perfect sense.

Those of us in durum understand that it's about as good as medicine gets, and it still has its major flaws.

Those toiling in the less desirable specialties realize their lot in life could be better, and erroneously think they would just need to pick a different specialty within medicine to escape the realities of day to day medicine.

The grass is always greener. It's just that we are all looking in a different neighbor's yard.

 

[Mad Jack]

Well the stats showing that derm docs are satisfied are actually somewhat misleading; they are simultaneously the most satisfied with their specialty choice (i.e. the most likely to say they'd choose the same specialty again) and among the least likely to be satisfied with going into medicine at all (i.e. most likely to say they'd go into an entirely different profession if they could do it over). This is actually a pretty common trend among various specialties, those who would choose the same specialty again also wouldn't choose medicine at all, and those least satisfied with their specialty choice are most satisfied with going into medicine in general.

View attachment 214101

View attachment 214100

Yeah, they're the "medicine sucks but this is the best it had to offer" crowd.

 

[Rekt]

In EM at least there are a ton of people who go into the field for the wrong reasons.

When I was interviewing for residency probably close to half of the applicants I met chose the field in large part because of this perception among medical students that its a short residency with a great lifestyle and salary afterwards. This a especially true for applicants who initially considered surgery or medicine subspecialties but didn't want to put in the long hours or take call for the rest of their career. As a result there are quite a few EM physicians out there who already dislike the job at baseline regardless of other factors. When you then add on all the problems with EM today (Corporate takeover with decreased autonomy, focus on customer satisfaction and profits, dealing with mostly non emergency patients) its easy to see why so many people become burnt out after only a few years.

Can echo truth to this. I worked several years in the ER and we had third year residents every month and a surprising amount said they strongly regret their residency choice. If you're super gungho about EM, make sure you know what you're getting into.

 

[Mad Jack]

Again, this describes most specialties in medicine

EM's pace is rather hectic compared to many specialties though.

 

[zero0]

I've had some anecdotal evidence supporting this. For example, the unhappiest doc I have ever met was an ENT in college. He found out I wanted to go to med school and went on a huge unprofessional rant. H used profanity and got quite worked up when he talked about how he thought he'd be making a lot more money with much less effort and he called medicine a "bait and switch."

I've had this feeling lurking in the pit of my stomach for a while now, and yet I keep trudging mindlessly ever forward...

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Exactly!

My personal opinion is that Ortho/EM/Derm are the three specialties that attract the type of people who are attracted to the idea of the work, the money, or the lifestyle, but in reality don't actually love the field. By no means am I saying the majority, just a significant proportion.

Disagree on the ortho standpoint. Every single orthopod I know and have ever met loves what they do. The camaraderie and love for our profession is unmatched by any other specialty-- there was an article in Forbes or some other journal about the most satisfied professions and ortho topped the list.

 

[ERDOC555]

Disagree on the ortho standpoint. Every single orthopod I know and have ever met loves what they do. The camaraderie and love for our profession is unmatched by any other specialty-- there was an article in Forbes or some other journal about the most satisfied professions and ortho topped the list.

There must be a large amount of self selection that happens during medical school then. I'm speaking from my experiences with preclinical students, not necessarily residents. I'm glad to hear that most people who make it into ortho know what they're getting into.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

There must be a large amount of self selection that happens during medical school then. I'm speaking from my experiences with preclinical students, not necessarily residents. I'm glad to hear that most people who make it into ortho know what they're getting into.

I think ortho relies a lot on aways and the residents/attendings seem fairly adept at sniffing out weirdos and good actors.

 

[Spectre of Ockham]

Recently came across this little gem:

Poor pediatricians , it's bad enough they had to deal with terrible parents and genetic diseases to save the little ones now they have the anti-vaxers too so that those also shorten their lifespan. Wouldn't join that specialty for the world. They should be given a 70 hour work week max just as a reward for not going ballistic.

 

[zero0]

Poor pediatricians , it's bad enough they had to deal with terrible parents and genetic diseases to save the little ones now they have the anti-vaxers too so that those also shorten their lifespan. Wouldn't join that specialty for the world. They should be given a 70 hour work week max just as a reward for not going ballistic.

I just hate the whole pretending that every little dumb thing the kid says and does is cute in front of their parents thing. That and having to personalize every exam and jumble around the order depending on what the kid does and doesn't let me do at that particular time.

 

[aalamruad]

I just hate the whole pretending that every little dumb thing the kid says and does is cute in front of their parents thing. That and having to personalize every exam and jumble around the order depending on what the kid does and doesn't let me do at that particular time.

Haha some of us aren't pretending

 

[Redpancreas]

Disagree on the ortho standpoint. Every single orthopod I know and have ever met loves what they do. The camaraderie and love for our profession is unmatched by any other specialty-- there was an article in Forbes or some other journal about the most satisfied professions and ortho topped the list.

It probably comes best from the actual orthopod but what she's saying reaffirms the stereotypes I've developed thru anecdotal evidence which are that orthopods are modest workaholics who love to operate. I don't see them as individuals who wanted a way out of medicine for the $$$.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[RealHumanBean1]

In EM at least there are a ton of people who go into the field for the wrong reasons.

When I was interviewing for residency probably close to half of the applicants I met chose the field in large part because of this perception among medical students that its a short residency with a great lifestyle and salary afterwards. This a especially true for applicants who initially considered surgery or medicine subspecialties but didn't want to put in the long hours or take call for the rest of their career. As a result there are quite a few EM physicians out there who already dislike the job at baseline regardless of other factors. When you then add on all the problems with EM today (Corporate takeover with decreased autonomy, focus on customer satisfaction and profits, dealing with mostly non emergency patients) its easy to see why so many people become burnt out after only a few years.

I've worked as a PCA in an ER for the last two years - can confirm that you're spot on. These reasons are exactly why I won't be pursuing EM.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

OBGYN is surprisingly low. I wonder why that is.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

Well, via the bar from 2011 they were actually one of the highest. That being said, cause taking care of babies as bomb and despite the malpractice shenanigans it's a dope field with often grateful patients? I have a different perspective on the field compared to most though..

Oh it's awesome and I really like it. It's just that everybody paints a picture of the field where everyone is overworked and losing their assets to lawsuits.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile