NOVA and KCUMB

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dntke1518 said:
👍

Stated like a m-f boss! I feel bad for the OP, they came here for a little insight into people's views on the two schools and then boom! An OPTI c*ck measuring match broke out. NOOOO ONE CARES BRAAAAAHHHHH
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Isn't that how most threads on here end up (minus the OPTI-talk)?

Don't make me do what I'm about to do..... DON'T MAKE ME DO IT....
 
Iliketoytles said:
Isn't that how most threads on here end up (minus the OPTI-talk)?

Don't make me do what I'm about to do..... DON'T MAKE ME DO IT....
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Unfortunately yes... Brahhh what you gonna do?!!!
 
DrWily said:
I just have to say this:

What the f~ck is an OPTI and how does it apply to me? If it's only for AOA residencies, I dont give 2 ****s. ACGME RESIDENCY ONRY BABY!
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Alas, your passionate feelings towards ACGME are one-sided...and we all know how one-sided affairs end up...
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
Alas, your passionate feelings towards ACGME are one-sided...and we all know how one-sided affairs end up...
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You talk about limiting yourself if your school has less OPTI spots vs another school. Shouldn't we equate the same feelings towards ACGME vs AOA? I believe that you are limiting yourself if you choose to go into AOA willingly unless you are gunning for such specialties like Gen Surg, in which case having an extensive OPTI network might do you some good, given the fact that your board scores will even allow you those opportunities. Having more spots does not mean being able to get in with mediocre scores. You still need to be competitive. With the proposed changes for requiring ACGME residency in order to achieve ACGME fellowship (and there are a lot more ACGME fellowships than AOA), it would be absurd to NOT think about going ACGME over AOA if you want to talk about opportunities.

Simple scenario:

Student has a choice between School A and School B. School A has a much better feel (dat feel brah), and the student can see themselves being more successful there, whereas School B doesn't produce the same effect. However, School B's OPTI is much larger. Based on your argument, School B is the winner, no doubt about it. But what if this student regrets his decision and wishes he went to School A, and ultimately performs less on the boards than he could have if he went for the less-OPTI school. This means he has less opportunities, even if his school has more OPTI spots.

This is why we say "go to what feels better for you" because you're going to be at a school and dealing with all the bullsh~t for 4 years. Ultimately, it is your Step 1/2 scores and your 3rd year clinical evaluations that determine where you go to residency. If you can outshine the others, then you will have more opportunities, even if your schools OPTI is not as extensive as another schools. Relying on a school's OPTI is short-sighted for this cycle's applicants IMO. Maybe in the future, when the AOA can place more DOs into osteopathic residency spots, OPTIs will hold more weight. But for now, more than half of us will go into ACGME anyway, given the way things have been going.

I think it's quite ridiculous that you come to all of these threads and spout off your OPTI campaign, when I can count on zero hands how many people really care about this kind of stuff before you came along. Most people base their choice of school off of a variety of factors, not just who-has-the-most-opti-spots. Sure, if you want to base your decision off that factor alone, then go for it. But I believe you are alone in that regard.

Also: LoL @ Medical Student status. Haven't even been to orientation yet.
 
DrWily said:
You talk about limiting yourself if your school has less OPTI spots vs another school. Shouldn't we equate the same feelings towards ACGME vs AOA? I believe that you are limiting yourself if you choose to go into AOA willingly unless you are gunning for such specialties like Gen Surg, in which case having an extensive OPTI network might do you some good, given the fact that your board scores will even allow you those opportunities. Having more spots does not mean being able to get in with mediocre scores. You still need to be competitive. With the proposed changes for requiring ACGME residency in order to achieve ACGME fellowship (and there are a lot more ACGME fellowships than AOA), it would be absurd to NOT think about going ACGME over AOA if you want to talk about opportunities.

Simple scenario:

Student has a choice between School A and School B. School A has a much better feel (dat feel brah), and the student can see themselves being more successful there, whereas School B doesn't produce the same effect. However, School B's OPTI is much larger. Based on your argument, School B is the winner, no doubt about it. But what if this student regrets his decision and wishes he went to School A, and ultimately performs less on the boards than he could have if he went for the less-OPTI school. This means he has less opportunities, even if his school has more OPTI spots.

This is why we say "go to what feels better for you" because you're going to be at a school and dealing with all the bullsh~t for 4 years. Ultimately, it is your Step 1/2 scores and your 3rd year clinical evaluations that determine where you go to residency. If you can outshine the others, then you will have more opportunities, even if your schools OPTI is not as extensive as another schools. Relying on a school's OPTI is short-sighted for this cycle's applicants IMO. Maybe in the future, when the AOA can place more DOs into osteopathic residency spots, OPTIs will hold more weight. But for now, more than half of us will go into ACGME anyway, given the way things have been going.

I think it's quite ridiculous that you come to all of these threads and spout off your OPTI campaign, when I can count on zero hands how many people really care about this kind of stuff before you came along. Most people base their choice of school off of a variety of factors, not just who-has-the-most-opti-spots. Sure, if you want to base your decision off that factor alone, then go for it. But I believe you are alone in that regard.

Also: LoL @ Medical Student status. Haven't even been to orientation yet.
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Ok. Let's do a thought experiment:

Let's say you are the program director at Nova's Diagnostic Radiology program.
You have two students who have very impressive (and similar) board scores, personalities, clinical evaluations, research, motivation, grades, etc.
One from KCUMB and one from NOVA.
And you have to choose one. Who will you choose?

When it comes down to this, every OPTI will choose its own student over another school's student. This is no secret. NYCOMEC is the only one which boldly states this as, "NYCOM students are given priority" (I don't know if there are other OPTI's who openly say this or not).

FYI I just love it that when people can't refute my logic, they immediately resort to personal attacks. LOL 🙄
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
Ok. Let's do a thought experiment:

Let's say you are the program director at Nova's Diagnostic Radiology program.
You have two students who have very impressive (and similar) board scores, personalities, clinical evaluations, research, motivation, grades, etc.
One from KCUMB and one from NOVA.
And you have to choose one. Who will you choose?

When it comes down to this, every OPTI will choose its own student over another school's student. This is no secret. NYCOMEC is the only one which boldly states this as, "NYCOM students are given priority" (I don't know if there are other OPTI's who openly say this or not).

FYI I just love it that when people can't refute my logic, they immediately resort to personal attacks. LOL 🙄
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Ok, and how often does this happen? What are the chances that two people, from entirely different schools, and entirely different regions would have the exact same scores/ECs/etc? Pretty damn low. But I'll play along. Based solely on that information, the NOVA student may be given the nudge. But there's no way that this situation is even realistic.

Here's another situation for you:

Two students, one from NOVA and one from KCUMB going for NOVA Diagnostic Radiology Program. KCUMB is top of his class 650+ COMLEX and 250+ USMLE. Nova student is middle of the road 550+ COMLEX, 210 USMLE. Who would you pick? The NOVA student? Hell no. This is a much more realistic situation. Just because you go to Nova, does not mean you are guaranteed to get into the NOVA OPTI-spot, which you seem to be implying.

FYI I love it when you only address part of my reply, and didn't even touch the ACGME vs AOA opportunities part. My "personal attack" is more of an after-thought, to add to the ridiculousness spewing from your posts. You are not a medical student yet and it's obvious by choosing that as your status you are deceiving people intentionally. As I said before, you can have your AOA residencies and choose your school based on OPTI alone. But when you post 7x in one thread about all the different OPTI locations for a given school, it gets old. Real old. You also pass out this knowledge like its the only thing people should consider when choosing a school.
 
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KCUMB only wants your money. They don't give two sh*ts about their students. They've been around SINCE 1916. Why is their OPTI not well-developed? HAVE THEY BEEN SLEEPING FOR 96 years? They don't care about student well-being. They don't care if you match at your top choice or not. They only give two sh*ts about their money. Once they've taken that from you, they don't care if you become the night manager at Burger king.

ON THE OTHER HAND, Nova has only been around SINCE 1981. But their OPTI beats KCUMB antime of any day. This shows that they care about their students. They don't just want to take your money and abandon you after giving you a piece of paper with the words DO printed on it. NOVA cares about student well being, and they have proven this by aggressively expanding their OPTI (specially in non-primary care) even though they have only been around for just 31 years.

Know which schools don't give two sh*ts about their students....that is the best way (& IMO the only way) to avoid future anxiety, unrest & uncertainty
 
DrWily said:
Ok, and how often does this happen? What are the chances that two people, from entirely different schools, and entirely different regions would have the exact same scores/ECs/etc? Pretty damn low. But I'll play along. Based solely on that information, the NOVA student may be given the nudge. But there's no way that this situation is even realistic.

Here's another situation for you:

Two students, one from NOVA and one from KCUMB going for NOVA Diagnostic Radiology Program. KCUMB is top of his class 650+ COMLEX and 250+ USMLE. Nova student is middle of the road 500+ COMLEX, 210 USMLE. Who would you pick? The NOVA student? Hell no. This is a much more realistic situation. Just because you go to Nova, does not mean you are guaranteed to get into the NOVA OPTI-spot.

FYI I love it when you only address part of my reply, and didn't even touch the ACGME vs AOA opportunities part. My "personal attack" is more of an after-thought, to add to the ridiculousness spewing from your posts. You are not a medical student yet and it's obvious by choosing that as your status you are deceiving people intentionally. As I said before, you can have your AOA residencies and choose your school based on OPTI alone. But when you post 7x in one thread about all the different OPTI locations for a given school, it gets old. Real old. You also pass out this knowledge like its the only thing people should consider when choosing a school.
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This is a highly unlikely event. Why on earth is a student (from ANY school) with a 500, 210 applying to Radiology? Only you could've made him apply into radiology...lol
 
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bravotwozero said:
This several years away for most of you, but coming from a soon to be NSU grad, worth considering:

As someone who went through the nightmare of having to scramble, I just wanted to give you all a heads up: If you end up having to scramble as a Nova student, NSU COM will do NOTHING to help you.

When I asked for help, I was told the OBVIOUS, that a) I need to scramble, and b) If I would like the website link to open positions.

I called the dean's office, they bluntly told me that "we can't help you".

The clinical education department here also told me that "we don't have the resources to help you" if you need to scramble. I find this hard to believe, considering the amount of money we pay in tuition each year.

Other medical schools have advisers, who help you set up a plan for the scramble, who will call up programs for you, who will set up multiple phone lines, computers and fax machine for you, when you need to contact programs and send them your application quickly. New York Medical College and KCUMB in Kansas City are two such examples. However, you don't have to take my word for this, just contact any medical school and see what kind of process they have in place for scrambling students. NSU COM does none of this; they have shown a complete lack of regard for the well being of their students.

I would not wish for anyone to have to go through the scramble; it is frustrating and horrific. I hope you guys all succeed in getting the residency of your dreams. But, it is inevitable that some people in every class may end up in the same predicament as I was. Who will look out for you then? I strongly advise you to address this issue through your class reps and the SGA, so that you have a process set in place, in case you do end up facing what I faced.

Other concerns: FAU's med students will now be rotating at two of NSU-COM's rotation sites, namely Broward General and Mount Sinai. FAU is going to pay the hospital, and the preceptors to teach their medical students; there is also talk of establishing allopathic residency programs at Broward. NSU has absolutely no intentions of paying anyone. They may just end up losing these rotation sites to FAU if they just keep doing what they do. Where our tuition money from our M3 and M4 years is anyone's guess right now; they have already lost Jackson North, and almost lost Northwestern as their rotation sites.

There is of course also the issue of 'rural rotations', where you don't have a say in when you can schedule them. They could be scheduled smack in the middle of audition rotation season, when you're trying to rotate at programs you wish to match at.

You will also be forced to learn spanish and perform 80 hours of community service, on top of trying to survive the medical school curriculum.

Just food for thought...
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Don't take OPTI as an assurance they care about you. Interestingly, this poster singles out KCUMB as a place that will do everything to help you if you are in the unfortunate position of having to scramble.
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
KCUMB only wants your money. They don't give two sh*ts about their students. They've been around SINCE 1916. Why is their OPTI not well-developed? HAVE THEY BEEN SLEEPING FOR 96 years? They don't care about student well-being. They don't care if you match at your top choice or not. They only give two sh*ts about their money. Once they've taken that from you, they don't care if you become the night manager at Burger king.

ON THE OTHER HAND, Nova has only been around SINCE 1981. But their OPTI beats KCUMB antime of any day. This shows that they care about their students. They don't just want to take your money and abandon you after giving you a piece of paper with the words DO printed on it. NOVA cares about student well being, and they have proven this by aggressively expanding their OPTI (specially in non-primary care) even though they have only been around for just 31 years.

Know which schools don't give two sh*ts about their students....that is the best way (& IMO the only way) to avoid future anxiety, unrest & uncertainty
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man that is a pretty strong implication. And last I checked, KCUMB's match lists were pretty baller. And I even think they had someone match ACGME Integrated Plastics one year, which is insane. And to top it off, you have nothing to back your claim up. As I stated before, if you are going to claim something, it is on you to prove it, not us to disprove it.

did you even interview at KCUMB? because at my interview, I got a pretty strong feeling that the school did almost too much to try to help the students.
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
This happens next to never...any student with a 500, 210 would only be mildly ******ed (so in other words, would have the same reasoning capacity that you do) & can't even dream of going into Diagnostic Radiology....stay in your fantasy world....reality will smack some sense into you.
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Whatever bro. Hypocrite much? Its obvious that a NOVA student with those stats don't have the scores to get into that program, but your OPTI bullsh~t makes it seem like any student who goes to NOVA will have a chance. Only the top of the top will have a shot at those spots, and even if that awesome KCUMB student gets nudged out by an awesome NOVA student given preference, who's to say that the KCUMB won't land at another programs spot? He put in the hard work, got the scores, and did well enough to get to this point of applying to Diag Rads at the school of his choice. Still lands Diag Rads residency somewhere else.

The point is that you are only considering graduate opportunities when you should be considering things like curriculum, 3rd year rotation options, etc which ALLOW you the opportunity to even consider competitive specialties. If you went to a school, and performed subpar, I can guarantee you that you won't give a sh~t about OPTI spots in competitive specialties.
 
Druggernaut said:
Don't take OPTI as an assurance they care about you. Interestingly, this poster singles out KCUMB as a place that will do everything to help you if you are in the unfortunate position of having to scramble.
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Thanks for sheddling light on this. I stand educated & corrected.
 
Man, these threads right now are just getting fantastic. I really wish I didn't have so many exams/practicals in the next 5 days so I could really have some fun with it 🙂

To our OPTI loving friend...the assertion that a school shows its caring for students by opening more residencies is just that...an assertion. Talking about all these schools like one has personal experience with each of them is ballsy....I hope you have family members and friends that have graduated from all of these programs in recent years in order to maintain your credibility. Pointing out that you haven't even gone to orientation yet is something that always gets on my nerves about these forums because you can be very well-educated about this process while still in your pre-medical years. However, in certain instances, pointing out your status in school just might be warranted unfortunately...I don't have the kind of time I'd like to spend researching the residency application process, but I think if you spent a little more time wandering around the current student/recent graduate threads, you might realize that your statements are not spot on. For someone like yourself who is clearly interested in trying to either keep every option open, or who plans to pursue a highly competitive specialty, this whole OPTI thing might be a big deal. But not everyone wants to pursue diagnostic radiology. Very few people do in fact. Osteopathic schools, at least historically, have not been designed or intended to push those types of physicians out. Read the mission statements....can't blame them for opening up primarily FM, IM, peds etc when that is their stated goal. For others reading, some of this is based off of reading your other posts on here....I had to look it up. I just couldn't resist trying to determine your angle here 🙂
 
DrWily said:
Ok, and how often does this happen? What are the chances that two people, from entirely different schools, and entirely different regions would have the exact same scores/ECs/etc? Pretty damn low. But I'll play along. Based solely on that information, the NOVA student may be given the nudge. But there's no way that this situation is even realistic.

Here's another situation for you:

Two students, one from NOVA and one from KCUMB going for NOVA Diagnostic Radiology Program. KCUMB is top of his class 650+ COMLEX and 250+ USMLE. Nova student is middle of the road 550+ COMLEX, 210 USMLE. Who would you pick? The NOVA student? Hell no. This is a much more realistic situation. Just because you go to Nova, does not mean you are guaranteed to get into the NOVA OPTI-spot, which you seem to be implying.

FYI I love it when you only address part of my reply, and didn't even touch the ACGME vs AOA opportunities part. My "personal attack" is more of an after-thought, to add to the ridiculousness spewing from your posts. You are not a medical student yet and it's obvious by choosing that as your status you are deceiving people intentionally. As I said before, you can have your AOA residencies and choose your school based on OPTI alone. But when you post 7x in one thread about all the different OPTI locations for a given school, it gets old. Real old. You also pass out this knowledge like its the only thing people should consider when choosing a school.
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agreed. but i already tried and get chastised for supporting DMU when I was merely using an example. oh well.
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
This is a highly unlikely event. Why on earth is a student (from ANY school) with a 500, 210 applying to Radiology? Only you could've made him apply into radiology...lol
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.....
I think that's the point, there is more emphasis on your performance than the school you attend. Hell, the school's OPTI shouldn't be all that important, if you're unhappy at MSU and happy at {insert school} you likely will score higher at the latter. This is not rocket science, we preform better where we are happier and more able to be at optimal functioning.

Also again, if you're an idiot then your schools OPTI will not save you. And if you will likely preform better at a school as it is in your comfort zone for etc reason, then go there and get a higher score.

This again becomes less of a factor if you're interested in residencies which are of average competitiveness ( Psych, IM, Gas) and in ones which you should primarily only apply to ACGME residencies ( Psych, PM&R, Gas). But again as mentioned before in other posts, every match list is almost identical in match placements, this implies that it's more about the student than the school.
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
This is a highly unlikely event. Why on earth is a student (from ANY school) with a 500, 210 applying to Radiology? Only you could've made him apply into radiology...lol
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This happens next to never...any student with a 500, 210 would only be mildly ******ed (so in other words, would have the same reasoning capacity that you do) & can't even dream of going into Diagnostic Radiology....stay in your fantasy world....reality will smack some sense into you.

^^ I like that you tried to change your original condesending statement to a even less logical one.
2eumslh.jpg
 
Honestly, FutureDoctor is just a guy who's just outright delusional, he's got so many ego defenses up that he can't even fathom that he is potentially wrong. We get it, you're probably going to MSU and you're going to go into massive debt and thus you formulated this elaborate ego defense to rationalize your decision to attend. Our mind tries too hard to rationalize away dissonant forces, rationalizing away the debt through this was a lot easier than accepting the reality of you going into extraordinarily huge debt with a potential of getting little out of it.

Also if i'm wrong then please be distracted by this.
http://tinyurl.com/2011usmlestep1answers
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
Family Practice (I know no one cares how many....but there are 7 programs...lol)
If it's of any difference to you...NSU has 1 Family Med program that is partnered with Duke University...Yes...DUKE!! 🙂
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Also remember, kids, that you have to evaluate residencies based on something more than just name alone. In your example above, you're all like OMG DUKE <3<3<3<3 but most students would readily agree that UNC Family Med far outdoes Duke in terms of both research and patient volume. In addition, UMD Shock Trauma is considered to be a better place to train for trauma than Johns Hopkins. I'm certainly not saying you won't get great training at any of the above places, I'm just saying don't let a big name cloud your judgement.

OP, research before you figure it out. You get out of med school what you put into it.
 
serenade said:
Honestly, FutureDoctor is just a guy who's just outright delusional, he's got so many ego defenses up that he can't even fathom that he is potentially wrong. We get it, you're probably going to MSU and you're going to go into massive debt and thus you formulated this elaborate ego defense to rationalize your decision to attend. Our mind tries too hard to rationalize away dissonant forces, rationalizing away the debt through this was a lot easier than accepting the reality of you going into extraordinarily huge debt with a potential of getting little out of it.

Also if i'm wrong then please be distracted by this.
http://tinyurl.com/2011usmlestep1answers
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I hate you kinda, also looks like he's signed up for UMDNJ.
 
dntke1518 said:
Unfortunately yes... Brahhh what you gonna do?!!!
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Someone brought up match lists above. If there's anything I looked at pertaining to residency before picking a school, it's the MATCH LISTS. Because we can argue about the potential for a student to have a slight advantage going to a school that has a more broad OPTI, but that's all speculation. Match lists don't lie. Just my opinion (fact).
 
Given the impending residency crunch, you have to consider each school's contribution to GME (i.e. do they even care about this?).

The proposal to require ACGME before entering ACGME residency/fellowship has been shot down for now. What is certain is that expanding MD slots means less ACGME slots for DOs, so DO residencies will become more important.

Don't forget, it's pretty good to be able to rotate at your school's hospitals with their own residency spots.
 
poopyhead said:
Given the impending residency crunch, you have to consider each school's contribution to GME (i.e. do they even care about this?).

The proposal to require ACGME before entering ACGME residency/fellowship has been shot down for now. What is certain is that expanding MD slots means less ACGME slots for DOs, so DO residencies will become more important.

Don't forget, it's pretty good to be able to rotate at your school's hospitals with their own residency spots.
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+1. its unfortunate that there are some folks who don't understand this.
 
OK
Let me pithily summarize the arguments made by both sides:

1. Gotta be happy so that you can function optimally. This will enable you to score high.

2. Gotta be given opportunities by your school's OPTI.

These are both important.
The impending residency crunch predicted by many makes 2 more important (that is MY PREDICTION). 2 is already important when it comes to specialty matches.

1 may or may not be important depending on the specific case. For me, it doesn't matter. NOT ONE BIT is my happiness/efficiency effected by location (or other school specific stuff). For you, it might mean the end of the world.

Moving on.
 
Why are you all making this so personal for me?

I am trying to put stuff objectively in front of the prospective medical student. KCUMB has a weaker OPTI compared to NSU...recognize it...realize the limitations this imposes...move on....be mature...be realistic...and be humble.


Don't take everything personally....
 
Ridiculing me and finding personal faults in me will not change the fact that KCUMB OPTI is weak compared to NSU OPTI.
This is not a consequence-less concept for the prospective medical student SPECIALLY if they want to specialize and are willing to work hard.

Why can't you all understand this? It's quite simple.
 
This debate has now just become a battle of whose opinion is more "right". All the facts have been presented by both sides... now it's just becoming redundant.

Onto more relevant and interesting things: http://trueotakukingdom.forumotion.com/t251-dbz-fun-facts

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  • Piccolo is only 4 years older than Gohan.
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  • Baby is the only main antagonist Goku beats as a Super Saiyan 4.
  • Despite usually calling him Kakarot, Vegeta does call Goku by his Earth name 8 times.
  • Technically Gohan, not Goku, beat Vegeta on Earth.
  • There are over 25 different kinds of the Kamehameha.
  • Over the course of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z Goku uses the Kamehameha 97 times.
  • When Goku was born Master Roshi was 307 years old.
  • The fight between Goku and Frieza is the longest fight to date in anime history. It takes roughly 3 and a half hours of screen time (briefly interrupted after Goku uses the Spirit Bomb).
  • 8 Saiyans survived the destruction of Planet Vegeta.
  • Videl, Mr. Satan's daughter, is an anagram for "devil".
  • Counting movies and GT, the Spirit Bomb is used 8 times.
  • Tien fought every major villain except Frieza (being dead at the time).
  • Tien and Chiaotzu are the first characters seen flying.
  • Yamacha is killed, severely injured, and/or already dead in every saga of Dragonball Z.
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
Why would a school that has a huge OPTI be lesser nationally accepted?

Greater OPTIs-->more hospital affiliations-->greater national recognition, right?
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Dude as a 4th i gotta say that this OPTI crap is totally useless. I didn't even know KCUMB was associated with any residency programs honestly. Look at the list of places we do 3rd year rotations at. They include 6+ in MI, 4+ in ohio, 2 in PA, 2 in NJ, 3 in FL, 1 in AL, 1 in MS, 2 in MO, and 2 in OK off the top of my head that have residency programs. Plus we send 3rd years to KU, UMKC, and wichita with MD residencies. Just because a school has an OPTI doesnt mean they preferentially match students from that school. DO places tend to take students who are familiar and have rotated there for a while. I think in this regard KCUMB >>>NOVA. Although, nothing beats living in south florida.
 
WDeagle said:
Dude as a 4th i gotta say that this OPTI crap is totally useless. I didn't even know KCUMB was associated with any residency programs honestly. Look at the list of places we do 3rd year rotations at. They include 6+ in MI, 4+ in ohio, 2 in PA, 2 in NJ, 3 in FL, 1 in AL, 1 in MS, 2 in MO, and 2 in OK off the top of my head that have residency programs. Plus we send 3rd years to KU, UMKC, and wichita with MD residencies. Just because a school has an OPTI doesnt mean they preferentially match students from that school. DO places tend to take students who are familiar and have rotated there for a while. I think in this regard KCUMB >>>NOVA. Although, nothing beats living in south florida.
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Thank GOODNESS. I've been waiting for someone with a little more seniority to come in here and say these very words.
 
WDeagle said:
They include 6+ in MI, 4+ in ohio, 2 in PA, 2 in NJ, 3 in FL, 1 in AL, 1 in MS, 2 in MO, and 2 in OK off the top of my head that have residency programs. Plus we send 3rd years to KU, UMKC, and wichita with MD residencies.
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A little off topic here, isn't that one of the criticisms from the MD side? That 3rd years get "spread in the wind" so-to-speak and end up all over the place, rather than the school's own academic teaching hospitals with their own GMEs?

WDeagle said:
DO places tend to take students who are familiar and have rotated there for a while. I think in this regard KCUMB >>>NOVA.
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As an outsider, I do wonder why KCUMB hasn't established more GME spots in the 95+ years it's been around. Wouldn't more AOA residencies help out the DO profession or at least spread out the residency locations?
 
poopyhead said:
A little off topic here, isn't that one of the criticisms from the MD side? That 3rd years get "spread in the wind" so-to-speak and end up all over the place, rather than the school's own academic teaching hospitals with their own GMEs?



As an outsider, I do wonder why KCUMB hasn't established more GME spots in the 95+ years it's been around. Wouldn't more AOA residencies help out the DO profession or at least spread out the residency locations?
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Because Kansas City already has two large MD institutions with KUmed and UMKC both having hospitals. Its a saturated market which is why 3rd years get sent out alot too. There isn't really another hospital around that could support residency programs except maybe a couple in the suburbs that could support maybe a few IM spots, or surgery, or family or something. But there really isn't any point because KCUMB students match into IM, Surgery, FM, Peds, Anesthesia, etc at the local MD places with such high frequency. If KCUMB had its local residencies I doubt many of their own students would even go there when they could go to the MD programs around. Although, it would be great if we could add something like ENT, Urology, Derm etc in addition to the ortho program that already exists.

In KCUMB's case i think getting sent around for 3rd year is helpful. Most of the places we get sent to have lots of residency spots which helps in matching for more competitive DO residencies like ortho, derm, gen surg, ENT, urology etc. I think we are honestly in a good situation having access to large MD institutions locally and hospitals with DO programs. The only other schools in a similar situation are MSU, PCOM, and maybe CCOM. The only difference is we get sent out of state for DO hospital access.
 
WDeagle said:
Because Kansas City already has two large MD institutions with KUmed and UMKC both having hospitals. Its a saturated market which is why 3rd years get sent out alot too. There isn't really another hospital around that could support residency programs except maybe a couple in the suburbs that could support maybe a few IM spots, or surgery, or family or something. But there really isn't any point because KCUMB students match into IM, Surgery, FM, Peds, Anesthesia, etc at the local MD places with such high frequency. If KCUMB had its local residencies I doubt many of their own students would even go there when they could go to the MD programs around. Although, it would be great if we could add something like ENT, Urology, Derm etc in addition to the ortho program that already exists.

In KCUMB's case i think getting sent around for 3rd year is helpful. Most of the places we get sent to have lots of residency spots which helps in matching for more competitive DO residencies like ortho, derm, gen surg, ENT, urology etc. I think we are honestly in a good situation having access to large MD institutions locally and hospitals with DO programs. The only other schools in a similar situation are MSU, PCOM, and maybe CCOM. The only difference is we get sent out of state for DO hospital access.
Click to expand...

Do you feel that the school should've done this in the 96 years that have passed since its birth?
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
Do you feel that the school should've done this in the 96 years that have passed since its birth?
Click to expand...

It would be nice but I understand why not. What hospital in the area would have enough attendings and cases to support a program. Second where would the funding come from? Its pretty tough to get medicare funding these days. And why would a community hospital use any funded residency spots for something like Derm, Uro, ENT etc where residents spend most of their time outside of the hospital in clinic when they could spend money on IM residents who will be in the hospital actually taking care of inpatients and making money for the hospital. Also, surgical specialties require that you are exposed to more than just community hospital pathology to be competent so most residents are sent to outside rotations for a good portion of their training. The home hospital loses its medicare money when residents are rotating outside. Anyway, check out some match lists and see how much lack of programs actually effects the school.
 
Wow skimmed the thread. I dunno why it got intense. Ehhhh how can I summarize all this. OPTI's are as important as the school makes them. Although KCUMB's OPTI may be smaller they still provide quality rotations albeit farmed out (which I personally would hate).

I think it's important to distinguish between schools that still offer the rotations like KCUMB vs LECOM which supposedly makes you schedule some of your own?

Other than that it is really up to each individual as to which school. Some peeps have families, others have SO's with careers. In the end as long as you "don't screw it up" when you get to 3rd year you can start to look around at what programs you're competitive for in the area you're interested in.

Debating on SDN will get you nowhere in this process. All it does is fill your head with useless conspiracy and doom/gloom theories. Instead once you realize how little medicine you actually know (which only increases the further along you go), you come to the realization that knowing medicine and functioning competently is the only thing that matters so might as well focus on that.
 
This thread baffles me. Who gives a crap about OPTIs? I don't want to aim for AOA residencies, even if I end up having to go that way.

To me, this is the key (combined with a very impressive match list):

Approximately 60 percent of KCUMB graduates enter ACGME-accredited postgraduate training programs, while 35 percent enter AOA-accredited programs.

KCUMB > NSU (ignoring location which -- fyi -- shouldn't even factor into the equation at all if you don't have a spouse and children)
 
toxicwombat said:
This thread baffles me. Who gives a crap about OPTIs? I don't want to aim for AOA residencies, even if I end up having to go that way.

To me, this is the key (combined with a very impressive match list):

Approximately 60 percent of KCUMB graduates enter ACGME-accredited postgraduate training programs, while 35 percent enter AOA-accredited programs.

KCUMB > NSU (ignoring location which -- fyi -- shouldn't even factor into the equation at all if you don't have a spouse and children)
Click to expand...

.
 
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zoner said:
wth, you get the last minute interview invite which you decline with a bad attitude and you bring up this old thread to bash on NSU? What's wrong with you? Unless you didn't know by the time we do our residency, they will all be accredited by ACGME
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That was not toxic. Toxic interviewed and was accepted to NSU. You are thinking of the wrong person.

BTW I personally chose KCUMB over NSU based on several factors including location (closer to family, lower cost of living, and I felt it was a better family place for my wife+kid(s)), cost of tuition (small difference, but they don't have as many fees/book costs), and the overall feel. I just didn't get that vibe at NOVA that I did at KCUMB. I felt good in my skin and could really see myself going to KCUMB, while NOVA I felt less comfortable and was bored. I think NOVA is a great school, but it just wasn't for me!
 
abolt18 said:
That was not toxic. Toxic interviewed and was accepted to NSU. You are thinking of the wrong person.

BTW I personally chose KCUMB over NSU based on several factors including location (closer to family, lower cost of living, and I felt it was a better family place for my wife+kid(s)), cost of tuition (small difference, but they don't have as many fees/book costs), and the overall feel. I just didn't get that vibe at NOVA that I did at KCUMB. I felt good in my skin and could really see myself going to KCUMB, while NOVA I felt less comfortable and was bored. I think NOVA is a great school, but it just wasn't for me!
Click to expand...

oh man, so sorry toxic, i mistook your avatar for someone else,, so sorry, I sincerely apologize 🙁
 
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toxicwombat said:
This thread baffles me. Who gives a crap about OPTIs? I don't want to aim for AOA residencies, even if I end up having to go that way.

To me, this is the key (combined with a very impressive match list):

Approximately 60 percent of KCUMB graduates enter ACGME-accredited postgraduate training programs, while 35 percent enter AOA-accredited programs.

KCUMB > NSU (ignoring location which -- fyi -- shouldn't even factor into the equation at all if you don't have a spouse and children)
Click to expand...

I give a crap about OPTIs.
 
No, you don't. You think you do, but you don't.
 
I'm a 4 hour drive from KCUMB and I withdrew my application there (invited to interview) after getting into Nova. I personally loved the Nova interview day and everything I've read about the school is great.
 
MedPR said:
I'm a 4 hour drive from KCUMB and I withdrew my application there (invited to interview) after getting into Nova. I personally loved the Nova interview day and everything I've read about the school is great.
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also, with all this talk about opti, Broward has 3/9 ortho residents from NSU and probably several at Largo as well.
 
zoner said:
oh man, so sorry toxic, i mistook your avatar for someone else,, so sorry, I sincerely apologize 🙁
Click to expand...

No worries! And thanks for the defense abolt!

To be perfectly clear, I was in no way insulting Nova. I just don't think this OPTI = Quality argument holds water. At all.
 
FutureDoctorrrr said:
FYI I just love it that when people can't refute my logic, they immediately resort to personal attacks. LOL 🙄
Click to expand...

Yet you still changed back to Pre-medical when called out about it. 👍

FutureDoctorrrr said:
This is a highly unlikely event. Why on earth is a student (from ANY school) with a 500, 210 applying to Radiology? Only you could've made him apply into radiology...lol
Click to expand...

For the same reason why people with 2.5/20 apply to medical school.
 
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