Nova Vs. Columbia

[Alpha Centauri]

Curious to see what people's thoughts are on my options here

Columbia
-Allow me to specialize if I wanted to (I don't have an idea now, but having the option to would be great down the road)
-Ivy league "name" (though I know this doesn't matter for the most part)
-Tuition is marginally more expensive than Nova's, but instrument cost is 4k vs Nova's 15-18k
-Will need to rent an apartment for all 4 years + food, utilities etc
-Never moved out of my parent's house before, going to NYC would be an incredible experience and allow me to get out of my comfort zone. Might be a bit of a culture shock though
-Able to go into the school of public health or MBA program (slightly interested in these options as well)
-Biomedical curriculum is cool, maybe difficult, but Pass/Fail grading seems less stressful
-I dislike the uncertainty of committing to Columbia and not knowing where I am going to end up living (would prefer a 1/1 or a 2/2 with a roommate)

Nova
-Would be able to live at home for D3 and D4 (about 40 minute commute) to save on costs
-Slightly cheaper tuition but instrument costs are expensive
-Be close by to family and be comfortable staying in my undergrad school
-Traditional grading making it harder to specialize, or at least more stressful

In my eyes, the pros of one school perfectly balance out the cons of the other, making my decision pretty much split 50/50 between the two

As far as living costs go, I think it is likely that my parents will cover most, if not all of my rent or living expenses for either school

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[#cariology]

Columbia

Both schools are expensive, so money isn't much of a factor. Branch out, spend time in an awesome new city, and utilize the resources of a world-renowned university and medical center.

 

[670206]

Columbia by a mile

 

[SmileItsLife]

Did you try to calculate the total cost of attendance for both schools? Tuition alone is not a good indicator of the school's price (esp since Dental School uses so many instruments) also the cost of living is much different aswell.

 

[eldmd_32]

Columbia. Hands. Down.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Did you try to calculate the total cost of attendance for both schools? Tuition alone is not a good indicator of the school's price (esp since Dental School uses so many instruments) also the cost of living is much different aswell.

Like I said, my living costs are likely going to be paid by my family which I am very grateful for. As far as COA goes, tuition is the main factor, and in this case, the difference is about 10-12k a year more if I go to Columbia. This increase in tuition from Nova is offset by the fact that Nova says I need 15-18k of instruments per year.

I already know paying 6-80k a year is super expensive, and nowhere near comparable to state school costs, but these are my options, and the 30-50k more I pay to go to Columbia won't mean anything in the long run (ready for all the SDN accountants to flame me for this statement)

 

[DentistScientist]

They are both expensive so Columbia.

 

[DrSdreen]

columbia

 

[CityRaider]

Like everyone else says, it would be very difficult for me to pass up Columbia.

 

[SmileItsLife]

I would say Columbia, then

 

[princessdentist]

COLUMBIA! congrats

 

[DentalNucleicAcid]

I mean, do you really want to leave beautiful Florida weather and go to snowy NY weather lol jk

 

[Gold_Toof]

Even if Columbia wasn't more prestigious, I would vote to explore a new city and step out of your comfort zone. It will make you a more well-rounded person and provide you with new life experiences. I moved away from FL for undergrad and despite the inferior weather, I came back with so many unique experiences compared to most of my friends who stayed in state. Just my .02

 

[super frank]

You know my answer.

 

[wengerout]

You know my answer as well


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Alpha Centauri]

You know my answer.

You know my answer as well


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[hopefuldentist123]

Columbia and don't look back. #GoLions

 

[okiedokeartichoke]

Columbia!! Like I said, it's time to move out of the nest eventually Go explore! Do big things!

 

[ncide]

Columbia had like what, 18 people match into OMFS?

Their medical education is top notch. Columbia.

 

[O Gaúcho]

What ever one is cheaper

 

[neutron1]

Where's the love for Nova?

 

[DOC YANKEM]

C.O.L.U.M.B.I.A

 

[Faefly]

Columbia!

 

[toothdoctor123]

Traditional grading making it harder to specialize, or at least more stressful

That's probably true, but Columbia can be stressful for other reasons, FYI.

-Never moved out of my parent's house before, going to NYC would be an incredible experience and allow me to get out of my comfort zone. Might be a bit of a culture shock though

-I dislike the uncertainty of committing to Columbia and not knowing where I am going to end up living (would prefer a 1/1 or a 2/2 with a roommate)

You need to know Spanish to work in the clinic, but it's also generally helpful for living around here. I suppose that will be more or less of a culture shock depending on where you're from in Florida. If you're still pro-Trump, you'll have to keep quiet about that or risk becoming very unpopular here. The things you say can affect your reputation with administrators who write your recommendation for post-grad, which is especially important at a P/F school.

It's not too difficult to get a decent and affordable apartment here...the University and your upperclassmen will help you out. This is the cheapest neighborhood in Manhattan, and the blocks surrounding the Medical Center are probably the safest/quietest in the city due to 24/7 police and security patrols.

Definitely get a roommate. If you've lived with your family in the same place all of your life, you will not want to be alone in an unfamiliar city. Having roommates can mitigate the stress of such a big change.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

That's probably true, but Columbia can be stressful for other reasons, FYI.



You need to know Spanish to work in the clinic, but it's also generally helpful for living around here. I suppose that will be more or less of a culture shock depending on where you're from in Florida. If you're still pro-Trump, you'll have to keep quiet about that or risk becoming very unpopular here. The things you say can affect your reputation with administrators who write your recommendation for post-grad, which is especially important at a P/F school.

It's not too difficult to get a decent and affordable apartment here...the University and your upperclassmen will help you out. This is the cheapest neighborhood in Manhattan, and the blocks surrounding the Medical Center are probably the safest/quietest in the city due to 24/7 police and security patrols.

Definitely get a roommate. If you've lived with your family in the same place all of your life, you will not want to be alone in an unfamiliar city. Having roommates can mitigate the stress of such a big change.

Thanks for all your advice both now and in the past! As far as knowing Spanish goes, that is for working as a student and not part of the actual curriculum when we transition to clinical, right? (obviously) Spanish left me after graduating high school unfortunately.

For your first remark about stress, what about Columbia could be stressful that is unique from other dental schools?

 

[toothdoctor123]

Thanks for all your advice both now and in the past! As far as knowing Spanish goes, that is for working as a student and not part of the actual curriculum when we transition to clinical, right? (obviously) Spanish left me after graduating high school unfortunately.

For your first remark about stress, what about Columbia could be stressful that is unique from other dental schools?

Right; there isn't a graded Spanish class, but there are student-organized seminars to help teach you some basics.

As for the stress of first year at Columbia, I would say, first of all, that you have to work hard just to pass. While it's not necessarily a big deal to fail an exam or two (because it is very rare for a student to actually fail out of Columbia), the deans keep track of numerical grades unofficially, and this can impact your future rec letter to post-grad programs. (But they do tell us that they will support any OMFS applicant that has a good CBSE score regardless of grades in biomedical coursework.) You have to work REALLY hard to honor the biomedical courses...it comes down to the time you're willing to spend memorizing every little detail in every lecture. However, I personally see it as a matter of diminishing returns because I have other things going on in my life and I'm not particularly interested in ortho (for which honoring is more important...at least at Columbia for whatever reason).

A big theme in the clinical education here (from day 1 of preclinic) is independence/proactivity. This is not the school for you if you need faculty to hold your hand through each step of your clinical training. D1 preclinic is scheduled only one afternoon per week, so you have to practice your hand skills on your own time to become proficient. This can be stressful when you're struggling.

But fortunately, when you're in NYC, you have every opportunity to RELIEVE stress.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Right; there isn't a graded Spanish class, but there are student-organized seminars to help teach you some basics.

As for the stress of first year at Columbia, I would say, first of all, that you have to work hard just to pass. While it's not necessarily a big deal to fail an exam or two (because it is very rare for a student to actually fail out of Columbia), the deans keep track of numerical grades unofficially, and this can impact your future rec letter to post-grad programs. (But they do tell us that they will support any OMFS applicant that has a good CBSE score regardless of grades in biomedical coursework.) You have to work REALLY hard to honor the biomedical courses...it comes down to the time you're willing to spend memorizing every little detail in every lecture. However, I personally see it as a matter of diminishing returns because I have other things going on in my life and I'm not particularly interested in ortho (for which honoring is more important...at least at Columbia for whatever reason).

A big theme in the clinical education here (from day 1 of preclinic) is independence/proactivity. This is not the school for you if you need faculty to hold your hand through each step of your clinical training. D1 preclinic is scheduled only one afternoon per week, so you have to practice your hand skills on your own time to become proficient. This can be stressful when you're struggling.

But fortunately, when you're in NYC, you have every opportunity to RELIEVE stress.

Thanks for the write up! So I assume for preclinic I have 24 hour access (or at least normal operating hours) to chill in the sim-lab and pass the time practicing in between studying or when I have free time? Obviously 1 session a week won't cut it

 

[schmoob]

You would need to spend lots of time in the lab regardless of school. Handskills take time, lots of it. Even if you did 5 sessions a week, I doubt it would cut it. Keep your old preps. Compare your first attempt at a maxillary Class II to one at the end of the year, it'll blow your mind.

 

[wengerout]

Right; there isn't a graded Spanish class, but there are student-organized seminars to help teach you some basics.

As for the stress of first year at Columbia, I would say, first of all, that you have to work hard just to pass. While it's not necessarily a big deal to fail an exam or two (because it is very rare for a student to actually fail out of Columbia), the deans keep track of numerical grades unofficially, and this can impact your future rec letter to post-grad programs. (But they do tell us that they will support any OMFS applicant that has a good CBSE score regardless of grades in biomedical coursework.) You have to work REALLY hard to honor the biomedical courses...it comes down to the time you're willing to spend memorizing every little detail in every lecture. However, I personally see it as a matter of diminishing returns because I have other things going on in my life and I'm not particularly interested in ortho (for which honoring is more important...at least at Columbia for whatever reason).

A big theme in the clinical education here (from day 1 of preclinic) is independence/proactivity. This is not the school for you if you need faculty to hold your hand through each step of your clinical training. D1 preclinic is scheduled only one afternoon per week, so you have to practice your hand skills on your own time to become proficient. This can be stressful when you're struggling.

But fortunately, when you're in NYC, you have every opportunity to RELIEVE stress.

Few question.

1. Which specialty are you personally pursuing?

2. Why is it Ortho unique in that you must honor in your classes?

3. With the future of Ortho (Going off SDN) supposedly in doubt due to GP encroachment, would you say it is still a smart avenue to pursue?

 

[rivarat]

It's also difficult to specialize at Nova because of the influx of FTDs at the end of third year. They offset your rank because they only take the clinical classes (which they have already mastered) and will have 4.0s.

Wengerin, ortho is certainly dying, many GPs will hack away at aligning the "social six," rather than sending it out to be done correctly and comprehensively. Unfortunately, the patients don't know better, and the new GPs don't care.

 

[wengerout]

It's also difficult to specialize at Nova because of the influx of FTDs at the end of third year. They offset your rank because they only take the clinical classes (which they have already mastered) and will have 4.0s.

Wengerin, ortho is certainly dying, many GPs will hack away at aligning the "social six," rather than sending it out to be done correctly and comprehensively. Unfortunately, the patients don't know better, and the new GPs don't care.

How do you combat this?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[toothdoctor123]

Few question.

1. Which specialty are you personally pursuing?

2. Why is it Ortho unique in that you must honor in your classes?

3. With the future of Ortho (Going off SDN) supposedly in doubt due to GP encroachment, would you say it is still a smart avenue to pursue?

1. I like OMFS, but I'm not sure yet. Still exploring other options.

2. There's no good reason. Ortho residencies are competitive only because it's a popular field; thus, program directors can afford to be picky in matching applicants.

3. Depends on your business acumen, how much debt you will have after your DDS and residency, and your reasons for going into dentistry, I suppose. Personally, I wouldn't do it because I don't see a clear enough path to get rich with my debt load, and I don't think I would find the career satisfying. I feel that I can justify my debt if I go into OMFS because I would be okay never becoming wealthy as long as I feel that my work is honorable and important to society. On the other hand, I can't imagine being satisfied as an orthodontist doing mostly elective, minor cosmetic work if it didn't make me wealthy.

 

[tyjacobs]

Curious to see what people's thoughts are on my options here

Columbia
-Allow me to specialize if I wanted to (I don't have an idea now, but having the option to would be great down the road)
-Ivy league "name" (though I know this doesn't matter for the most part)
-Tuition is marginally more expensive than Nova's, but instrument cost is 4k vs Nova's 15-18k
-Will need to rent an apartment for all 4 years + food, utilities etc
-Never moved out of my parent's house before, going to NYC would be an incredible experience and allow me to get out of my comfort zone. Might be a bit of a culture shock though
-Able to go into the school of public health or MBA program (slightly interested in these options as well)
-Biomedical curriculum is cool, maybe difficult, but Pass/Fail grading seems less stressful
-I dislike the uncertainty of committing to Columbia and not knowing where I am going to end up living (would prefer a 1/1 or a 2/2 with a roommate)

Nova
-Would be able to live at home for D3 and D4 (about 40 minute commute) to save on costs
-Slightly cheaper tuition but instrument costs are expensive
-Be close by to family and be comfortable staying in my undergrad school
-Traditional grading making it harder to specialize, or at least more stressful

In my eyes, the pros of one school perfectly balance out the cons of the other, making my decision pretty much split 50/50 between the two

As far as living costs go, I think it is likely that my parents will cover most, if not all of my rent or living expenses for either school

i think it comes down whether you want to take a risk and branch out of your comfort zone, which is perfectly ok

let me know have any questions about columbia

 

[MickeyMouse45]

Columbia

 

[wengerout]

1. I like OMFS, but I'm not sure yet. Still exploring other options.

2. There's no good reason. Ortho residencies are competitive only because it's a popular field; thus, program directors can afford to be picky in matching applicants.

3. Depends on your business acumen, how much debt you will have after your DDS and residency, and your reasons for going into dentistry, I suppose. Personally, I wouldn't do it because I don't see a clear enough path to get rich with my debt load, and I don't think I would find the career satisfying. I feel that I can justify my debt if I go into OMFS because I would be okay never becoming wealthy as long as I feel that my work is honorable and important to society. On the other hand, I can't imagine being satisfied as an orthodontist doing mostly elective, minor cosmetic work if it didn't make me wealthy.

1. So we get time to explore the options there? That's great because i've been doing some soul searching lately on which specialty to pursue.

2. If the future of Ortho is on the downturn why is it still so competitive>

3. Good points, although even given the debt seems like OMFS would in the long run to a pretty strong financial position. The work is definitely more impactful it's just the residency that gives me concern.

 

[DOC YANKEM]

1. So we get time to explore the options there? That's great because i've been doing some soul searching lately on which specialty to pursue.

2. If the future of Ortho is on the downturn why is it still so competitive>

3. Good points, although even given the debt seems like OMFS would in the long run to a pretty strong financial position. The work is definitely more impactful it's just the residency that gives me concern.

1. Pedo and endo are the two best specialties in terms of financial reward and gratification.

2. Ortho is going down for many reasons as mentioned in the other dental forum sections. Specialties will always be inherently competitive, but compared to other specialties is another story.

3. OMFS might be seen as the best specialty, but that is merely an opinion. It's truly what you are seeking out of this career path.

 

[wengerout]

1. Pedo and endo are the two best specialties in terms of financial reward and gratification.

2. Ortho is going down for many reasons as mentioned in the other dental forum sections. Specialties will always be inherently competitive, but compared to other specialties is another story.

3. OMFS might be seen as the best specialty, but that is merely an opinion. It's truly what you are seeking out of this career path.

1. Sadly don't have an interest in pedo. As for Endo I thought due to implants and GP's they were starting to see problems as well?

2. Yeah I'm just now realizing this. Depressing because (as of now) I really liked Ortho but I'm not going to go into financial ruin for it.

3. I can see this, I think I need to shadow an OMFS or two and see if it's for me.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile