Nova?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Bandit, Feb 29, 2000.

  1. Bandit

    Bandit Senior Member
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    HI
    I was wondering if any current students at Nova would be able to tell me how their experience has been there. I am in the process in deciding where I will go next year.
    Thanks.
     
  2. General

    General New Member

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    Nova....ahhh yes Nova! I'm a senior student at nova and love it! The sun....the beach.... ya right --- if you can find time! Nova has been a great educational expierence.... the classes during the first 2 years were very demanding and the attendance policy dips into your studytime, but the professors are terrific. The new state of the art campus and facility are unparalleled in my opinion. Nova is getting ready to start ground breaking on their new state of the art medical library and a bunch more study rooms. The education I recieved at NOVA has been great.....but please remember the more effort you put in during your first 2 years the more you will gain during your last two. My class just took comlex step 2 Boards and the general feeling was that Nova along with its affiliated hospitals(where we did our cores) did indeed prepare us well. The only drawback I see going to Nova is its lack of affiliated residency programs in Florida. Well I hope this info helps all of you who are thinking about nova... come on down and check it out! Its in a great location.... only 10 min from the beach! and it never snows!!!!

    Take care!
    General --- Senior student!
     
  3. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    NOVA in spanish means DONT GO. literally
    the previous person who claims to be a fourth year student should provide you with their graduation date, i suspect they aren't a fourth year student at all. it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't part of the adminstration. The same adminstration that threatens students with secret files and pressures the students not to write email postings of their true feelings about this place. To state that NOVA prepares you for part two comlex is assinine. The ob/gyn here is practically nil and 30% of the test is ob/gyn. the only thing that prepares you for comlex here is clinical rotations and these are done at various hospitals with volunter staff and have NOTHING to do with NOVA...at least that is nova's excuse when the numerous complaints roll in about hospitals using certain instructors despite their lack of moral integrity and/or teaching ability year in and year out.
    NOVA exists to make money, the first two years we are bombarded with useless classes that exist solely for the grant writers...ethnocultural medicine four hours, rural medicine four hours, etc...classes that will REALLY IMPACT on your core philosphies in life and make you a better person....bet the farm on that one.
    Sarcasm alert for the sarcasm impaired._
    with the exception of anatomy and histology, the first year courses were poorly presented, poorly tested and poorly corrected when the flaws were exposed.
    the second year classes were taught by volunteer physicians whose sole criteria wasn't verbal skill, wasn't licensure and wasnt clarity of thought...I think the sole criteria was UH. they were the first folks to say uh sure i'll talk spontaneously for an hour....
    OMM is treated like an ugly stepsister here.
    now try to picture this:
    NOVA SOUTHEASTERN COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE, (psssss....we really dont care if you bother to learn it, we only named it that for licensing/certification purposes)and god forbid (humor alert for the informed reader) if anyone incorporate it into second year instruction.
    i could go on, but since other than the outside faux furnishing and nouveau riche trappings there isn't much substance here, i would just say, stick to the spanish interpretation...put nova last on your list and remember GUADALAJARA has very nice people
    HUMOUROUS ASIDE: i actually had a third year student recently suggest i NOT say anything negative about NOVA because it might "waterdown" my degree....I guess medical ethics Four credit hours didn't make a lot of impact with this unethical advocate of the "keep quiet don't rock the boat school"...sorry, bub I PAY THE FREIGHT HERE AND IF I'm UNHAPPY WITH THE PRODUCT YOU BET YOU ASPIRATIONS OF GREATNESS I'M gonna be verbose on the topic. kick me out, i have a great lawfirm. divorce will do that for a man.
    can you imagine someone telling Gandi or Mandella or Buddha or uh Me for that matter...don't rock the boat???? talk about aspirations of vacumness. get castrated take lots of propecia and baaaa a lot because you might as well be a sheep. dissenting views appreciated, humour preferred.
     
  4. Nanook

    Nanook Senior Member
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    Whoa........

    What happened to the relatively high rating that Nova got from U.S News/World Report?

    They were ranked 38th, which they will tell you with an obnoxious pop-up window on their web site, which was higher than many other schools that often get mentioned before it (KCOM, UHS, CCOM, etc)

    What gives? Did they buy off US News?
     
  5. Bandit

    Bandit Senior Member
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    Thanks for the advice ADRIANSHOE. Unforunately, I had to decide on Nova by March 3rd. I only had a week to let them know and all of the responses to this post were after this date. Oh well....Anyway, I was also accepted to TUCOM, KCOM, UNECOM, and declined an interview at AZCOM. I have a deposit at both KCOM and UNECOM and am leaning toward UNECOM. TUCOM was great, but the newness of the school scared me. I really appreciate your honesty or hope that you weren't just saying that to get a rise out of people. I had trouble saying no to NOVA because of the location and all of the awards it so called received. Do you know anything about the curriculum award and the one for the best medical school(I am not sure if this is its name, but Nova was the first osteopathic medical school to win it. It was in my acceptance letter.) Also, like the previous post stated, what about the US News and World Report ranking. Thanks for your time!!! I am more happy that I declined my admission.
     
  6. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    Adrian,

    I think you should provide us with your name and graduation date so that we can make sure you are who you claim you are, as you told us to do about the previous posters. I do not think your OPINION is that of a majority of students at NSU-COM. I will be attending NSU-COM next year and NSU has been my first choice all along. Which hospitals are you talking about? What do you mean by lack of moral integrity?
     
  7. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Ok, fair enough: John Shewmaker, MSIV, graduation date MAY 2000.
    I am curious why you a: think my opinion ISNT similar to other fourth years. Is this based upon your personal discussions with other fourth years and if so which ones?
    or are you whistling past the graveyard?
    b. so what if its not the opinions of others, am i going to lose sleep over the fact that others disagree with me? if so choose another profession.
    c. The student asked for my opinion, i gave it to the student. since this service is addressed toward answering peoples questions shouldn't that be the focus?
    d. The moral ethics question: Nova punishes students that are overachievers by making them retake courses they have already passed...AT NOVA. this is true in several programs but nowhere as clearly as in the Medical Masters program.
    Nova coerces students not to write emails that portray NOVA in a negative light.
    Nova coerces fourth year students into signing a waiver that allows NOVA representatives (UNNAMED "DESIGNEES") to discuss students performance without students approval or even knowledge. this waiver releases the student from any legal recourse in the event that any lies, personal retribution etc. takes place on the part of the administration. READ THE WAIVER its fairly explicit.
    ---NOVA evidently has NO STRUCTURE IN PLACE TO REPLACE clinical instructors that act inappropriately, in fact, they hide behind the following philosophy...its the hospital where you are rotating that has the responsibility to make these changes..The hospital of course is free to pass the buck back to NOVA if they so wish, but the bottom line is there is no BUCK STOPS HERE in place.
    I could go on about grades that are changed to allow students that have failed several courses to remain in school, while other grades are not changed even when the INSTRUCTOR admits that the original grade was improper. ...anyway, that is the short list...I have a long list but why bother. the secret files comment by one faculty member should be enough.
    hospitals: columbia wpb, broward general, north broward, memorial, palmetto, mt. sinai, miami heart, suncoast, florida hospital east orland, ormond beach ???, new jersey track??? (??? not sure what the hospital name is.
     
  8. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    I did not intend to give you the impression that I thought you had no right to post your opinion, I respect that you have one. I have spoken with many students at NSUCOM as well as residents and graduates in practice and have never ran into anyone with the opinions that you have of the school. Do you think your opinions of the program are related to your personal difficulties you have had with the admistration and not the college as a whole? Do the students you are friends with hold some or all of the same opinons you do? Can you not choose to do outside rotations at places like Jackson-Memorial where a strong teaching faculty is already in place? Are your attitudes related to the FP orientation of the school because you are interested in a specialty that is not well represnted by NSU faculty? I have been very impressed with what I have learned about the school in my two visits and from talking with students and former students about the strength of NSU's program. I have a hard time understanding how so many students could be so happy with their education and you be so disgruntled without there being some type of incident or incidents that have occured between you and the faculty. I appreciate you giving us your opinions but I think you are providing us with only half the story.
     
  9. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    I have spoken with many students at NSUCOM as well as residents and graduates in practice and have never ran into anyone with the opinions that you have of the school.
    you have now...and if you look below the water, i am just the tip of the berg..dont trust me that would nauseate me...look hard and look deep.
    one story...A physician was being recruited as a clinical instructor...he was called by someone in credentialling...the person asked this doctor what country he recieved his degree in...USA, he said...but your diploma is in foriegn language....ITS LATIN! he said.
    he was a graduate of Penn..that was his first experience with NOVA admin..it hasnt been his last and its a true story because I happened to be rotating with him when it happened.
    ---
    Do you think your opinions of the program are related to your personal difficulties you have had with the admistration and not the college as a whole?
    --no, however if i had signed a waiver allowing the dean to release my academic records to anyone he wished and granting them the right to talk to anyone about me, i would have been signing away my right to privacy...I chose not to allow open access to my files and they TRIED to punish me with a three sentence dean's letter...didn't work.
    --If I had sat still and not confronted the dean of student services about his policy of walking into and interrupting our classroom instruction to yell at individual students (never at me during class) I wouldn't have felt very good about myself and I would have felt like my education was not only being comprimised, but that I was a coward. who can live with that. Would you have sat still?

    Do the students you are friends with hold some or all of the same opinons you do?
    -yes, but I cant argue with their pragmatism. I can only be myself.

    >Can you not choose to do outside rotations at places like Jackson-Memorial where a strong teaching faculty is already in place?
    -- You don't understand clinical rotations, but that is not your fault...I will explain.
    you are allowed six months of electives, three of which are REQUIRED FAMILY PRACTICE electives. that would leave you three rotations to do at any setting of your choice, although we were told we could not go overseas....until somehow the school decided to mail us all regarding an opportunity to rotate somewhere in isreal...
    So now if you want to use those three months to rotate at Jackson fine, but usually you would prefer to rotate at a hospital that might consider you for residency...JACKSON traditionally isnt in this mix...
    >>Are your attitudes related to the FP orientation of the school because you are interested in a specialty that is not well represnted by NSU faculty?
    No...I entered as part of a seven year family practice program, i have been accepted to a family practice internship...it was the only place i applied to in the match...so I would say that my attitudes are not related to any interest in an outside specialty.
    --incidently, the supposed Seven year track`...I have yet to recieve a single bit of literature regarding it...its four years now...this "program" evidently requires me to go looking for it or something, DOES IT EXIST? I dont know, but i do know that since reading the match contract in depth that the seven year program violates the match contract EXPLICITLY...good thing it dont exist i guess. this is somewhat tongue in cheek...the program does exist but its pretty nebulous and the school isnt spending any time on it that i can see.

    >>I have been very impressed with what I have learned about the school in my two visits and from talking with students and former students about the strength of NSU's program. ---never trust the answers you get when visiting a campus and going on a tour...the tour directors usually get free food and ,i suspect, better dean's letters..and probably faster (see below) so its in their interest to wear rosy lenses. i'm not saying they do, only that there is obvious selection bias

    >>I have a hard time understanding how so many students could be so happy with their education and you be so disgruntled without there being some type of incident or incidents that have occured between you and the faculty.
    --actually members of the faculty have paid me to tutor/proctor anatomy, do dissections, asked me to go to lunch, some have referred students to me for physiology and histology tutoring and asked me to write test questions, asked my advice on handouts and solicited my proofreading prowess (i use a word speller LOL), so i'd have to say your assumptions lack merit here...maybe there's more to me than you are willing to admit, maybe I am only a front for a larger voice of dissidents, maybe i'm not...maybe you should reread some of the incidents and dwell upon the ramifications of them...I dunno, actually have fun, you have a season in the sun to enjoy.

    I appreciate you giving us your opinions but I think you are providing us with only half the story.[/B][/QUOTE]
    ABSOLUTELY, actually, I have only scratched the surface of a list many separate incidents that have occurred, some of them involved me, MOST involved other members of my class...I have yet to mention the person with 10 great rotation evaluations and 1 negative one whose dean's letter had one good eval included and one bad eval...why?
    the student was told that the dean's letter needed to be balanced....it wasn't me. its not isolated, and its not even close to half the story. I have yet to mention the student whose dean's letter hadnt been written by Mid october who was told...hey, if you needed it sooner you should have included a request for it to be expedited...this advice was a tad late and a tad stupid...if any of us knew we could get the letters faster that way WE ALL WOULD HAVE INCLUDED SUCH A REQUEST. the list only gets larger. want to talk to some students about administration's attempt to suppress free speech on the internet? dig deep, i wish you well.
     
  10. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member
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    I don't get much time to read this message board anymore but I'm glad I stopped by tonight as I had no idea that our school had such an OLIVER STONE among the student body. You also remind me somewhat of the Mel Gibson character from Conspiracy Theory where nothing is a mere mistake or communication problem, rather EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.

    Realizing that I am a lowly, know-nothing M1 and that you are about to graduate, I fully expect for your comments to carry more weight on this message board yet I intend to respond nevertheless.

    In reading your comments, I couldn't help but wonder if we even attended the same school. And if so, were you ever involved in student government? I've had the immense pleasure of serving as the 2003 Class President for the past year and have therefore worked very closely with the administration at NSU. Unlike you, when I find problems and concerns I address them through the proper channels and do something about them. You apparently prefer to publically moan and wallow in your own discontent. I'm pretty confident that this later strategy accomplishes nothing.

    Well let me tell you, and whoever is reading these posts and considering NSU as a medical school, I've beem IMMENSELY successful in getting things accomplished at NSU. Example #1: We had a radiology course last semester that was pass/fail. Everyone, including the professor, knew it was pass/fail and so many of us took the exams with that understanding (meaning, we didn't study for it like we did for biochemistry or histology which were graded classes). Well, half-way through the semester, the administration changed the grading format without informing the professor or students and a letter grade was printed on our grade reports. Was this some sort of conspiracy against the students? Absolutely not. It was a communication problem. I had about three meetings involving two of the deans who were WONDERFULLY receptive to my argument that the grades should be reverted back to pass/fail. And guess what? I won with no hostility whatsoever.

    Another example would be when the administration scheduled "Medical Education" hours, a meeting with all medical students where the deans discuss some issue important to our education, immediately before ALL of our anatomy exams last semester. I didn't think this was in our class's best interest so I met with the appropriate people, voiced my concerns and managed to have every one of those meetings cancelled or rescheduled. No problem.

    So for everyone that reads this thread, this M4 is entitled to his opinion and is free to express it. But so are those of us who love our medical school and feel that we are getting a medical education second-to-none. For those of you who wish to rule out NSU because of the ramblings of a disgruntled M4, go right ahead. As for the rest of you, I assure you that the majority of students here are MORE than happy with their medical education. My first year of medical school is almost behind me, and I can honestly say that I would choose NSU over again if given the opportunity.

    And finally, I'm done with this thread... I don't have time to debate someone who is inherently unhappy and, in my opinion, rather misguided in his/her attempts to inspire change. We just view the world, and our school, MUCH differently and nothing I could say or do would ever change that.

    G.

    [This message has been edited by Gregory Gulick (edited 03-17-2000).]
     
  11. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Greg:
    1. I'm at a loss....if I am inherently unhappy and disgruntled why did I not constantly post unhappy remarks over the last four years? hell, i was on this bulletin board for two years before entering Nova, espousing my beliefs in free speech, demand quality first from any program you give money too, just as you demand quality in your everyday appliances and also the need for people to work together and not cut each others throats, this unhappy outlook apparently distresses some.

    Please GUESS why I responded now, two months short of graduation when I could have just kept my mouth shut and spouted off after graduation....
    Why don't you try to GUESS the only reason I chose to post at this time versus later? anyone want to guess?
    2. How has the Dean's attempt at censoring the students which I have verified with both M1 and M2 students, been addressed, and what punitive measures are the chancellor and trustees of the school undertaking to ensure that the dean understands that censorship attempts are intolerable and swift punishment will follow any such attempt?
    3. While you are totally correct that miscommunication is at the root of many of the problems, how is a dean being STUPID enough to publicly attempt mass censorship a miscommunication, and yes while unwarranted paranoia is counterproductive to change, you have been extremely blessed in not having to deal with the previous two dean's of student services.
    One was rude to students, dismissive, interupted classes for his personal vendettas, made racist statements to several asian students, and underneath it all was actually a very gentle man who was clearly unqualified to the task he was assigned...He and I had several heart to heart talks in which we agreed to disagree...in one he clearly stated that he was trying to protect me and warn me about how the school would not punish infractions directly but would wait until you are ready to graduate and then try to paint you in a negative light, he also had been the source of TREMENDOUS student discontent for years without any attempt by his employers to rectify the situation and without any MISCOMMUNICATION about where the problem was (he was the perfect storm trooper to hide behind)...it isnt disgruntled behavior to point out the inherent lack of integrity in not rectifying the problem nor to point out the negative aspects of such a counterproductive disciplinary policy.
    the last dean of student services isnt even worth discussing, she lasted one year, which is 13 months longer than she would have lasted with any competent search committee.
    Larry Newbern (is that the right last name?)is an EXCELLENT edition to NOVA, I had the pleasure recently of discussing a family matter with him and he, dr. stan cohen and elaine lefkowitz bent over backwards to help me out during a very painful period. Larry is a genuine dean of student services from my limited exposure to him.
    4. I repeat, I would not have bothered to address this issue at all if someone hadnt told me they felt extremely censored by the dean of medicine's actions, I would have left my list of actions in the closet and was actually hoping things were improving... I saw no reason to explain in depth that last year I had two discussions in a constructive and positive way with dean jacobson who was SHOCKED that there exists a waiver of liability stating he had never heard of such a thing and it didnt sound legal, and after promising to inquire regarding it he kindly called me back after talking to MORTON MORRIS the schools legal advisor and explained the schools position. I also left out the fact that Morton Morris in his Medical Jurisprudence class stated that if we tried to repeat anything he said during the class he would deny ever saying it...this was witnessed by 150 medical students in the spring of 1998.
    5. I do not know you personally and would not presume to psychoanalyze the state of your happiness as I have only a marginal grasp on psychiatry (or reality for that matter) I will say that I am done tilting at windmills and trying to help people, screw it, when your hand gets bitten when you try to divert attention away from the people claiming oppression, its time to leave them to their own cowardice. I guess I just have to grow up and learn from my experience...that is life...take care and feel free to email me for any physiology questions you might have, you know I'm always willing to help.
    One statement that I have found particulary helpful in my life is that :the path you choose today is not the path you have to stay upon. This applies to all aspects of life including interpersonal relationships.
     
  12. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Sorry, I almost forgot:
    Greg if your arguments carry less weight with a person because you are an M1 and I am an M4 and for no other reason than that, neither you nor I should have any respect for such a fool. god this sounds familiar...Adrianshoe circa 1996.
    I didnt suddenly stop becoming a college instructor in my 30s when I was an M1....although the school certainly treats the older students like they have no past. during second year Dr. cohen held a meeting for the over thirty group...wanta talk disgruntled? I didn't even open my mouth for the first hour. wall to wall geriatric disgruntlement.
    You,with your unique life experiences cannot be ignored simply because you havent traveled through the very narrow window of experience that medical school forces you through
    ...if anything, I think M1s opinions are often tons more valid than M4s precisely because of the inherent attempt to mold you and restrict your experiences that is a natural part of the medical school journey...I see many M4s who have spent four years destroying their social skills, their family life and their hobbies and health, and I am definitely guilty of that (except for the social skills part) by my own volition...I urge all prospective medical students to fight this tendency...dont do call if you can avoid it, practice your hobbies, read for fun, exercise, cook dinner for your spouse the night before a test..take the kid to disney world (SKIP CLASS TO DO IT, I DID LOL)
    occasionally study for an 80 instead of 90..
    LOVE LIFE...otherwise, youre going to spend your career trying to convince others to do the very things you are neglecting in your own life ...take care buddy,
    and thanks for the disgruntled comment, I owe you a beer for that one.
     
  13. crazydoctor

    crazydoctor New Member

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    Nova students, you guys better watch out because Big Brother is watching over you.

    Mr. Gulick has done alot of us and I have no doubt about it. But in his position, he has to speak positively for the school. Does he has a choice?

    No one dare to say much in this site. We are scare of the punishment the Dean promised in front of us. He will find out who speak negatively and kick them out of the school! I am risking my future here to tell you guys stop posting here for your own safety. Understanding Mr. Gulick is the moderator of this site and he is very close to the administration. He may be forced to turn in your identity to the school.

    Just remember the following:
    - Be nice to the school and you will survive
    - NOVA SouthEastern University = No One Verbally Against SouthEastern University

    ------------------
    "Crazy" is a matter of opinion
     
  14. dwstranger

    dwstranger Senior Member
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    Just a small linguistic point: "nova" in Spanish means the same as in English - a big exploding star. "No va" means don't go.
     
  15. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    I doubt that the situation at Nova really differs from the typical experience of most DO and MD students at any US medical school. Yes, there is a lot of bullying, hazing, and political posturing left in academic medicine--not to mention outright medical student abuse. Unfortunately, this is a deeply rooted in the culture that trains physicians. We (being the next generation of physicians) have the opportunity to do things differently.

    For an excellent study of academic tyranny and suppression of free speech by a medical school administration at its worst read Micheal Gregor, MD's "Heart Failure: Diary of a Third Year Medical Student." His experience at Tuft's pales to anything you described so far at Nova. He has posted his diary on-line.

    http://upalumni.org/medschool/

    "Trash your expectations and the world will beat a path to your door."

    House of God




    [This message has been edited by drusso (edited 03-19-2000).]
     
  16. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    I agree that the abuse is pervasive to the community, probably due to the lack of institutional control for one, and for an arrogant sense of paternalism for another...
    remember: DOCTORS began the practice of calling DOCTORS: "doctor"...if we demand on being called john or nancy, maybe a lot less whanks would enter medicine (maybe they enter solely for title--go to ENGLAND become a duke)
    Doctors began the ridiculous notion of wearing a WHITE LAB COAT in an attempt to sway the publics increasingly negative opinion of them....look it up.
    Incidently in the tang dialect of eastern timoran indonesian, NOVA means "one who thinks a bit too concretely"
    -- the key to change is in front of us, but its not going to happen if we allow the institutions to cow us, separate us, and slowly destroy our integrity (provided we had any to begin with LOL)
    the abuse you take today is only preparing you for the lifelong whoredom you are about to agree to with the HMO world....if you begin to accept it, you become a partner with it, and by age 55 you become it...fight the idea that the MONEY MAKING MACHINE is "MY SCHOOL". that is nonsense, just as you would never walk around talking about loyalty to "YOUR SEVEN ELEVEN" YOU ARE PURCHASING A PRODUCT not a family and dont ever forget it. MEDICAL SCHOOL IS A BUSINESS TRANSACTION. grow up and realize it.
    do you seriously think that YOU have ever been a major part of the schools mindset,
    other than as you exist as a dollar value?
    your loyalty belongs to your future patients and your current family...perhaps, maybe with your colleagues....but NEVER belongs to a corporation whose bottom line is the bottom line.
    As for Greg's position...I think he has the simplest position of all...if they ask him for names he gives them mine (since i made it public)...OR he says "that's an illegal act sir/maam and I cannot be a party to it."
    if they insist, he gives the names to them, testifies for the plaintiffs when the students sue the school and everyone gets free tuition from NOVA via a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT, there wont be much trouble compiling depositions, these acts have been compiling for years...Not that anyone REALLY wants to burn NOVA, we just have to protect ourselves from illegal acts,
    Incidently, Greg mentioned that often things are a result of miscommunication..on that note:who is the individual that put a video game featuring bare breasted women in the student lounge over the weekend? DO TOURS OF THE FACILITIES STILL INCLUDE THE STUDENT LOUNGE? because there are going to be a few angry female students around on monday when they see this video game...greg you better get up early and handcarry the video game (its small) to the dean's office....someone's gonna get in a LOT OF TROUBLE if its not removed.
    THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY just a simple oversight, who ever agreed to the machine probably never looked at it too closely, so dont include this isolated incident in any list of legitimate issues, thanks.
     
  17. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    SOrry to take so long getting this information:

    Nanook asked about the us world/news report:

    NOVA was TIED for 38th with a score of 57.0
    with nine other programs.
    ten more programs were tied at 58.0
    I have no idea of the statistical weighting of each cagetory but would make the following observations:

    1. the list was for TOP PRIMARY CARE SCHOOLS
    NOT top medical schools

    2. Nova ranked 111 in academics (i would agree)
    3. Nova ranked 125 in residency directors
    4. Nova ranked 107 in the student selection
    5. NOVA RANKED THIRD IN 81% of students going into primary care.

    Obviously, this 38th ranking isnt very informative or meaningful.
    --DO students in florida have to do a traditional internship to gain florida licensure, MOST programs in florida only offer a family practice internship which qualifies the student.
    NOVA doesnt grant enough elective rotations (THREE) to allow us to fully explore other options.
    NOVA only has a few affiliated programs that are not primary care based. five or six derm spots, five or six general surgery, etc...the predominance of options and the focus on restricting our elective choices biases this ranking. One: no one with a real interest in specializing would put NOVA on their top choice of schools to attend (unless there were other extenuating circumstances ie family etc..
    two: once here, if you are a native floridian, your options are so limited as to also be a major factor in directing you into primary care.

    incidently, dont take my word, go to novas
    website and look up school of osteopathic medicine, click on the popup menu and look it up.

    hope that clears up that issue.
     
  18. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    one also wonders how the ranking would change if PAID faculty to student ratio were used instead of FACULTY/STUDENT ratio
    Nova score very high in this category, but nova has a very large unpaid faculty.
    these shouldnt be considered in the ranking.
     
  19. Robb1818

    Robb1818 Member
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    Just wondering where you got these numbers and if they're available for other schools?
     
  20. unsure

    unsure Member
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    More importantly, where can we get the match results for the last three years. Does Nova publically provide this? I would call and ask but these posts have me paranoid.

    Current Nova students: Have you found that students who decide they don't want to go into primary care have a hard time getting other residencies? I only had a chance to talk to MS2's when I was there and they were kind of vague referring clinical training. They said that you could rotate wherever you wanted?

    I thought that because Nova and UM are the only schools serving southern florida, there would be no problem doing clinicals in large hospitals in Miami, where you would see alot of different things. And therefore students would have a leg up in trying to get whatever residency they want. As of right know I think I do want to go into FP or IM but realize that I don't know squat yet, and don't want to shut any doors. Are there really that many problems with the 3rd and 4th years? ADRIANSHOE, are you exaggerating the situation? Also, isn't having a combined 3 electives standard for the 3rd and 4th years in osteopathic med school? The other schools' curriculum I looked at lists 1 elective in the 3rd year and 2 in the 4th. So, Nova says that you can have 6 electives, but 3 must be rural med. Isn't this the same?
    Right know I'm trying to decide between Nova and a school in the northeast. I was going Nova but these posts are disheartening. From what I can ascertain from this message board is that the administration is a problem (but I think I can handle that- as long as they don't bother me I won't bother them). I think Nova is better for the first 2 years for sure- facilities, good rep for teaching, and of course weather. But the 3rd and 4th years are worrying me. Are the affiliated hospitals that bad? Are they not teaching hospitals? By this I mean, are there residents being trained there also(ie where your OB/Gyn rotation is at there are OB/Gyn residents being trained) Are Nova students supposed to locate and arrange their own rotation sites on their own (like in Ohio)?

    I would appreciate all responses from current Nova students and anyone familiar with the program (ADRIANSHOE included). Like I said, I really liked what I saw when I visited but I don't want to bust my ass for four years and then end up having regrets.

    [This message has been edited by unsure (edited 03-20-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by unsure (edited 03-20-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by unsure (edited 03-20-2000).]
     
  21. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    unsure,

    I would not let the crap that John is saying influence your decision about attending NSU. He is grossly exaggerating the situation at NSU. I can promise you from talking with many at NSU that his opinions are HIS opinions and are not representative of the student body. For example, his comments in his last posts about residency and internship positions in FL above. At Sun Coast Hospital in Largo, 20 internship positions available (T,FP,IM), Anesthesiology rsidency-4 residency positions,Dermatology-6 residency positons,Internal Med-14 positions,General surgery-4 positions. This hospital also has externships available in just about every medical specialty. BTW, what does John think the importance of affiliations are in residency placement anyway? You can do externships anywhere you want as long as you apply and get accepted, this has nothing to do with University affiliations. I have many friends who just went through the NRMP and most of them matched to places that they had never done a rotation at before and had never been to before except for the interview. The school the graduated from had nothing to do with it. John is ONE angry student who is making trouble here because HE has had problems with the administration. Call the school yourself and ask for 4th year students that you can talk to, or better yet talk to people who have graduated from NSU and get honest opinions instead of the biased ones that are being posted be John. I could care less about half of the stuff John is posting about but he is misrepresenting the FACTS. I think John is attempting to get even with the administration and nothing else. Never trust someone who is threatening lawsuits against the university that has allowed them the opportunity to practice medicine, or anyone for that matter that thinks that lawsuits are the way to solve problems. John will reply to this meesage and blast me but who cares. Call the school and talk with people and you will find that he is not just the tip of the iceberg like he says, he is the iceberg.

    Joshua Miller
     
  22. dophysician

    dophysician New Member

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    Although, I believe that "AdrianShoe" is exaggerating a bit, his comments about lack of affiliation are absolutely correct. I speak from experience when I say, you want to go to a medical school with strong hospital affiliations. Your education during your third and fourth year will depend on it. You are right that you do not need to do a rotation at a site to obtain a residency spot there, but you will not get a good education if all you are doing is setting up your own rotations at various hospitals. This is kind of like going to the library and studying on your own for the first two years and not going to any of your classes and not following any of the outlines. Even though, you might be able to cover all the necessary topics, the structured and organized learning will not be there. You have to be in a teaching hospital that the preceptors are familiar with YOUR school and are PAID by your school and feel obligated to teach students from YOUR school and the hospital feels the need to create a structured learning atmosphere for students from YOUR school. After all this is why you keep paying the same tuition during your third and fourth year of medical school. As a first-second year or a premed, you might feel this is not that big of a deal because you can just set up your own rotations at X hospital that has 1800 beds and you will get to see everything and learn a lot. This is NOT TRUE. You want to be in a place with organized lectures and paid FACULTY as your instructors. Sure all hospitals have organized lectures, if they have a residency program, but you want them to have organized lectures with organized outlines for each of your rotaions made specifically for med students from your school with some of the same faculty members you have seen during your first and second year as your instructors. This is very important for your education. Again I am not talking about getting into a residency program. I am talking about your education.
     
  23. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    I was speaking about residency placement and not education during the 3rd and 4th years when I made the comment about University affiliations. John(adrian) was attempting to tell other students that by attending NSU that they would be forced into FP and have little opportunity to enter a specialty residency. I was simply pointing out that he IS wrong. Half of the osteopathic specialty residencies go unfilled each year and I am sure that a program in Michigan that has a spot they need to fill could care less if you went to NSU or UHS as long as you performed well in school, did well on the COMLEX or USMLE, have a good dean's letter and perform well in the interview. A schools affiliations will not help a student get a RESIDENCY SPOT more than his/her own hard work. Now that we have cleared that up, what makes you think that NSU has poor hospital affiliations to begin with? You mentioned having to set up your own rotations at NSU, where did you get that from? I know DMU and a few others do this but at NSU your rotations are set up by the school except for the electives. Where did you attend school?

    [This message has been edited by RollTide (edited 03-20-2000).]
     
  24. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    whoa! who be the angry person here?

    Josh, how do you respond to the fourth years and graduates that have already posted messages AGREEING with some of what i have said, while also offering their differing views in a professional and courteous manner?
    Yes, there are SOME affliated spots available, but in a class of 180, you only mentioned 14 spots that are specialty spots.

    Given the Miami affiliations and the recent addition of Derm in ft. lauderdale, I believe the total NONPRIMARY affiliated count is around 30-40 spots...OR 25% of the class size.
    Now of the spots, a lot of outside folks rotate at these hospitals also and you compete with them for a position (this isn't an unhealthy thing), but without enough electives to spend exploring your variety of options, (or should I say, BY RESTRICTING your electives) you are locked out of rotating at as many places.
    --personally, i dont have a problem with a school that advertises as a "primary care school"...and then tries to live up to it...we knew our position on entry...I would say its restrictive to GROWING students who
    want to explore options, ..My main issues are lack of oversight and attempted censorship, AND NOONE WHO IS IN THE SITUATION SEEMS TO BE ARGUING, WE ALL SEEM TO BE AGREEING ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS!!
    I wouldn't have to threaten LAWSUIT, if I hadn't been threatened with censorship, the only was to protect myself and also speak out is to let them know they are being watched JUST AS CLOSELY, and will be met will equal and opposite action. MY ONLY alternative would be to stay silent and allow them to censor me.

    --Personally, I agree that it isn't NECESSARY to rotate at a spot to get in, BUT if you are interested in NEUROSURGERY, don't you think you should rotate at some NEUROSURGERY programs? and since the competition is clearly keen, is the deck stacked toward those who rotate at the site?
    the answer is : obviously.

    I dont feel it constructive to blast anyone, so why bother.

    Am I exaggerating? Perhaps I am spelling it out as HARSHLY as possible, simply because as a realist I get a little bored reading people say things like "my school" or "the school that offered you the opportunity"
    this naivette is understandable in teenagers, but lets remember...WE OFFERED THE SCHOOL OUR CASH! don't assume i'm going to blindly nod my head up and down and not expect accountability...IS THAT WHAT IS BEING SUGGESTED? SHOULD WE ALL JUST SAY "YES SIR AND NO SIR?" after all, we are just a bunch of lucky slobs who are being granted the privelege of a medical degree...we did nothing for it and none of us sacrificed our relationships our time, our money or anything...it was just a gift that we should bow our heads and appreciate.
     
  25. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    I NEVER SAID NOVA FORCES YOU INTO PRIMARY CARE....that is simply dishonest for anyone to assert...do they make it more difficult...absolutely...but FORCE...of course not...please stick to the truth, and again as a student of medicine it imperative we all attempt the art of not INSULTING people simply because we disagree with them.
     
  26. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    Let me ask you a question John, what do you hope to accomplish by complaining here at studentdoctor.net? Do you think that the best way to voice your concerns is to scare off a few pre-meds that wanted to attend NSU? I think that we can agree that there are proper channels for NSU students to voice their concerns about various issues at NSU. Instead of doing something positive to voice your opinion ,like actually talking with those who have the power and influence to initiate change, you spend your time here whining about the things you would like to see changed to a group of pre-meds trying to decide where to spend the next four years of their lives. If you were interested in helping them make a decision, your views would be more balanced and you would be spending a considerable amount of time talking about the wonderful aspects of NSU and the south florida area. Instead you are using this forum as an avenue for retribution towards those who have angered you. This is why I have a problem with your posts. I am sure that you are a wonderful person and doctor but I think this is the wrong place to get even with the administration over disagreements. Someone might miss the chance to study osteopathic medicine at a wonderful college because of your own greivances with the school. One other question, did you research NSU before deciding to attend? What led you to decide to attend NSU?

    BTW, The USNWR rankings are an all or none thing. You either agree with the criteria they use to rank schools or you don't. I personally do not. But you mention all of these factors like NSU does not deserve the ranking. The only reason that NSU and other osteopathic schools do not fair better than they do in this type of ranking is because the use criteria like NIH funding(very few dollars here for DO programs), student and residency director rankings(half of these people do not even know our schools exist). This has nothing to do with NSU like you tried to make it sound. This is a problem with our profession as a whole and everyone should be proud that NSU and the other DO schools are creeping up the list. Although the rankings themselves are meaningless, the fact that pre-meds use them as a way to decide which schools to apply to is important. The more accepted our schools become in the general public, the more visable our profession will become.
     
  27. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    one last point:

    IF YOU CALL THE SCHOOL (the same one that threatened its students with expulsion)
    and ask to speak to students, are you really naive enough to think you are going to get honest opinions...hell, they just threatened to kick out anyone who WAS honest about their opinions.
     
  28. unsure

    unsure Member
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    Could someone please answer these questions about Nova:

    The hospitals where we rotate through- are they training residents in the same area as the rotation?

    Is the match list for the last couple of years available?
     
  29. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    What is your problem? You are so paranoid, this whole "the man's keeping us down" speech is sad and pathetic. You think if I call the school and get the names of students and graduates with whom I can ask questions that there will be some kind of coverup? Come on...the administration has been upfront with me from the start. When I asked about the "Big, Bad " prison rotation during my interview they were honest with me, in fact they have been helpful to me with just about everything I have asked about. I think your whole conspiracy theory is starting to stink up this board.
     
  30. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    unsure,

    yes, at least at the hosptals like Palmetto ,Sun Coast, and North Broward.

    Yes, call the school and ask about it. They will not find it offensive, many students ask schools this.
     
  31. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Let me ask you a question John, what do you hope to accomplish by complaining here at studentdoctor.net?

    Its time to come clean: the only reason I have been posting so vehemently for the past week Is to make the point to the first and second years that "hey, don't worry about the dean's threat" I PUBLICLY IDENTIFIED MYSELF AND BLASTED NOVA FOR A WEEK AND NOTHING HAPPENED...so relax guys, dont be stupid, dont be dishonest, and stay anonymous and YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT!

    Do you think that the best way to voice your concerns is to scare off a few pre-meds that wanted to attend NSU?

    IF I HONESTLY FEEL ITS NOT A GREAT SCHOOL HOW AM I SERVING THE PREMEDS BY NOT TELLING THEM SO?????

    I think that we can agree that there are proper channels for NSU students to voice their concerns about various issues at NSU.
    --I DONT AGREE AT ALL, NOVA HAS NO PROPER CHANNELS FOR ME TO VOICE MY CONCERNS THAT I AM OBLIGATED TO USE, I AM A FREE AGENT AND I CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT NOVA WHEREEVER I WANT TOO, WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHERE I SHOULD VOICE MY COMPLAINTS, SINCE YOU EVIDENTLY HAVE NO COMPLAINTS HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHERE TO VOICE THEM IF YOU DID?????

    Instead of doing something positive to voice your opinion ,like actually talking with those who have the power and influence to initiate change, you spend your time here whining about the things you would like to see changed to a group of pre-meds trying to decide where to spend the next four years of their lives.
    WHAT MAKES YOU ASSUME I HAVEN"T TRIED THROUGH CHANNELS IN THE PAST???? AREN"T YOU PRESUMING AN AWFUL LOT BASED UPON A TOTAL LACK OF FACTS ON YOUR PART?????

    If you were interested in helping them make a decision, your views would be more balanced and you would be spending a considerable amount of time talking about the wonderful aspects of NSU and the south florida area.
    THATS ABOUT THE BIGGEST LOAD OF CRAP I HAVE EVER HEARD, IF I HAVE A COMPLAINT I HAVE TO TELL ALL THE GOOD THINGS AT THE SAME TIME? IN THE FIRST PLACE I ASSUME MOST PEOPLE KNOW THAT SOUTH FLORIDA IS A NICE PLACE, IN THE SECOND PLACE I AM UNDER NO SUCH OBLIGATION TO SPEND CONSIDERABLE TIME ON THE POSITIVES THAT IS RIDICULOUS! besides if you read my posts you would notice i did spend some time on some of the positives.


    Instead you are using this forum as an avenue for retribution towards those who have angered you.
    DOES EMPHATIC=ANGRY in your book? DOES EVERY ONE WITH A STRONG OPINION MEAN THEY ARE ANGRY? you dont know me, or what my day to day life is, yet because you read my postings in the bias of your own naivette you assume that my STRONG LANGUAGE equates to anger...you have a serious flaw in your logic....again.

    This is why I have a problem with your posts. I am sure that you are a wonderful person and doctor but I think this is the wrong place to get even with the administration over disagreements.
    WRONG AGAIN, I AM A TERRIBLE PERSON AND A WORST DOCTOR...HELL I AINT EVEN LICENSED and this is the PERFECT PLACE TO GET EVEN!!!

    Someone might miss the chance to study osteopathic medicine at a wonderful college
    I DISAGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THIS PUKEHOLE.

    because of your own greivances with the school. One other question, did you research NSU before deciding to attend? What led you to decide to attend NSU?
    I ASKED A LOT OF SECOND AND FOURTH YEARS AND THEY LIED WITH SMILES ON THEIR FACES, WE LAUGHED ABOUT IT LATER.

    BTW, The USNWR rankings are an all or none thing. You either agree with the criteria they use to rank schools or you don't. I personally do not. But you mention all of these factors like NSU does not deserve the ranking.
    IT DESERVES THE 111th place, the 125th place and the 107th place, ABSOLUTELY I AGREE WITH IT DESERVING THESE RANKING I JUST DISAGREE WITH THE WEIGHTING.


    The only reason that NSU and other osteopathic schools do not fair better than they do in this type of ranking is because the use criteria like NIH funding(very few dollars here for DO programs), student and residency director rankings(half of these people do not even know our schools exist)
    THAT AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU BLINDLY FOLLOW LIKE SHEEP INSTEAD OF WORKING HARDER FOR TRUE CHANGE AND ACCOUNTABILITY

    . This has nothing to do with NSU like you tried to make it sound. This is a problem with our profession as a whole and everyone should be proud that NSU and the other DO schools are creeping up the list.
    YOU MEAN THE LIST YOU DONT BELIEVE IS VALID?
    YOU CAN"T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
    HERES WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY:
    the list is bull**** but hey it makes us look good...what hypocrisy.

    Although the rankings themselves are meaningless, the fact that pre-meds use them as a way to decide which schools to apply to is important.
    SEE ABOVE.
    The more accepted our schools become in the general public, the more visable our profession will become
    THEY WILL GET ACCEPTED A LOT FASTER IF THEY FOCUS ON TURNING OUT A QUALITY PRODUCT AND NOT WAVERING IN THEIR COMMITTMENT TO EXCELLENCE AND STUDENT DEVELOPMENT.


    Ok, first let me apologize, but I wanted to show how two people can allow a conversation to degrade into an insulting contest if both sides allow it. I have accomplished my goal of demonstating that ANONYMOUS postings probably are pretty safe...NOW, everyone be nice and honest....take care and so long.
     
  32. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    The stongest rotations (anecdotally and otherwise) that make up cores are:
    (this is my opinion)
    Sun Coast-depending on your intern and attending. they have family practice,derm, surgery and internal medicine programs...A nasty rumor was that surgery may be on the way out, i can't verify that, i would say that on surgery, you want to go somewhere that doesnt overload you, but that demands that you follow your patients throughout the postop course (who the hell cares how you actually remove a thyroid, its the recovery medicine that ALL of us need to appreciate...some programs are TOO light in this regards and some OVERBURDEN you...look around and decide.
    Palmetto-internal medicine is very good
    if you get the right attending (lots of positive anecdotal feedback)
    -Emergency medicine is GREAT if you follow the main attending around-you will work a lot of nights but TRUST ME IT IS WORTH IT, he is a gem (firsthand)
    Mt. Sinai- ER has a residency program, i feel it is still experiencing growing pains, but overall its good and the director for rotations is very PROSTUDENT and the attendings and ALMOST all of the residents were very gracious. (firsthand)
    Radiology and Internal medicine also seem to be strong there, but you really need more direct input on this one.(some firsthand exposure, lot of positive anecdotal)
    Orlando-I like the overall program from what i hear, they only have a family practice residency, but their er is 50,000/year case load (that is a good thing) and they have
    GET THIS: paid faculty, think about that at 2 am when you have to call the attending.
    West Palm Beach- i am sort of biased against this program as in my opinion it has some major oversight issues, but the cardiology, both pediatrics and (its what you decide to make it) OBSTETRICS/GYNE has a good core of instructors and an OUTSTANDING human for the course director.
    The RURAL sites are hit or miss: I found Ft. Pierce to be excellent. ask around about the others, some are not good (anecdotally)
    incidently: two electives at WPB were VERY good, INFECTIOUS DISEASE-you will work hard and love every minute. and Pulmonology-two attendings with vastly different styles, but you get a lot of teaching plus a lot of autonomy.

    DMES I have been very impressed with are at Palmetto, Sun Coast, and Orlando. all have different management styles, but all seem fair and

    hope this helps, email me if you still are UNSURE...LOL..coulnt resist that one OUCH.
     
  33. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Robb- got those numbers from NOVAS home page, go to the pop up menu under college of medicine and click on it, it gives you the categories...i dont know the wieghting system, but the wieghting system seems a bit hinky, obviously a lot of weight was put into percentage of students entering primary care and not much weight given to student, residency and academics opinions...either way this was a crap poll done without much rhyme or reason, so if they had ranked NOVA 170th or 1st, its not germaine...its bad science... Recognizing that, it would be unethical to use this poll for ANY purpose.
    uh...well, maybe for toilet paper in a crunch.
     
  34. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Regarding Rotations:
    at NOva, there are 10 required rotations in third year and 5 required rotations in second year. you have 1 month vacation (which you most certainly can use for a rotation, if you wish) and you have six dedicated electives. Of the six, three have to be in a primary care field (i incorrectly stated it has to be family practice earlier, that is not the case)
    primary care= FP, IM, OB. (any others?)
    There are some quirks to the system that you can use to your advantage:
    1. If you rotate in internal medicine and your doctor also does a lot of cardiology or other subspecialty, you CAN count this elective as a primary care elective as long as you set it up as a primary care elective, dont lie and dont take advantage, but it gives you more options.
    2. interestingly ER isn't considered primary care for elective purposes, however some core rotations use an ER rotation to count as FAMILY PRACTICE-now that would seem like you couldn't use this to advantage, but heres how you do it: if you are interested in ER and you are in this core site, TRY TO SET UP YOUR ER (FAMILY PRACTICE) rotation back to back with your required ER (REAL ER) rotation, immediately before you take an elective in the site you are going to apply to-that way you look more seasoned!-youd be surprised what you can forget in a months time...incidently, if you are interested in ER or MD residencies, start inquiring EARLY in third year or late in second year and try to worm your way into a setting that allows you to do your core rotation in the field you most are interested in RIGHT BEFORE YOUR ELECTIVES-you dont seem as lost when you go do your electives. find out ALL you need for applying at least 8 months before you begin the application process.
    ON THE FIRST DAY OF ANY ROTATION-always try to find out exactly where are the tools and toys are, and their NAMES- at 3 am when someone asks you for a yankauer, it helps if you know a. WHAT IS A YANKAUER and b. WHERE is the YANKAUER.
    keep the faith (someone somewhere is reading this and smiling)....jas.
     
    MedschoolAesthetics likes this.
  35. Nav

    Nav Member
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    How come nobody else from NOVA is posting to this forum? I know that there are many people from that school who post to other topics, why not this one? Even a "ADRIANSHOE is a psychopath who is making everything up, the school is wonderful because...." (No insult intended, Mr. Shoe).
    Actually, after talking to a couple of fourth year students, I decided not to attend the school. They voiced some of the same concerns as ADRIANSHOE, and a couple more. But to those contemplating going to the school keep doing the research, it is nice to hear different viewpoints of a school. Most students discussing their schools make them sound like the happiest places on earth. A discussion like this is a nice change of pace.
     
  36. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Nav, thanks! I'll tell the little pink guys you were nice to me...hang on while i move the aluminum foil.
    I'll answer your question.
    I asked a couple of second years over the last two days the very same question
    their answer was: we dont want to say anything because the dean threatened to bring us before the standards committee and kick us out of school.....
    SO: not only do the second years feel threatened (because they WERE threatend)
    but they also understand that the standards committee is a pervertable process in the dean's mind...this brings to mind the mark furman incident, where one bad cop (and who knows how many more) not only destroys an open and shut murder investigation, but also brings into question THE ENTIRE PROCESS...that is the WHOLE EVIL of the dean's actions....It places people in an ethical dilemma...do they openly protest this invasion of their rights as american citizens, or do they preserve their self interests (especially with a debt load that is greater than most peoples mortgage)...its a tough INDIVIDUAL call....I personally am torn between my career and my conscience...but i dont have to have a career...my conscience is much harder to quiet....how many people are privately agonizing over this dilemma? sadly we dont know...only a couple forum members for sure....interestingly, WHY WAS THE ORIGINAL POSTINGS REGARDING THE PRISON ROTATION PULLED FROM THE FORUM, I HEARD THAT IT HAS "DISSAPPEARED"...I dont want to sound paranoid, but has is "disappeared?" if not, where is it? I would like to see what was SO INFLAMMATORY as to make a so-called PROTECTOR of the education process become a perverter of free speech.
     
  37. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    unsure,

    I have the match lists for 1996 and 1997 if you are interested. Email me if you need any info at [email protected]

     
  38. Nav

    Nav Member
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    If we made a movie of the whole NOVA experience, right about now, Mr. Shoe would either be found dead with a gunshot wound through the heart or would wake up next to a dead prostitute and a kilo of cocaine in an elaborate plot to discredit him. Be careful, Shoe, don't trust anyone!
    Who would remove the discussion on the prison rotations? This board is not affiliated with Nova, why would they care if anything negative was said?
     
  39. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Nav, I appreciate your comments, but let me correct an error in your statements.
    I didnt say the posting was removed, i said that a STUDENT TOLD ME it was removed...my posting was to ASK where it was...so that i would have an opportunity to actually read what was so inflammatory...Remember, if i were paranoid i would hardly USE MY OWN NAME...(by the way, which name did i give)

    ....Now, about that prostitute...DO I GET A SAY IN ANY CASTING DECISIONS because my agent assured me that it would be an A list actress
     
  40. dlbruch

    dlbruch Senior Member
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    Adrian- I found the old posts I think you are referring to by using the search function (upper right of each page on the board). I entered "prison rotation" and found old strings in both the "everybody" and the "pre-med osteopathic" boards. Maybe the comments you are looking for are still around in the archives.
     
  41. ZDoc

    ZDoc Junior Member
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    I'm currently a second year student at Nova and I havn't had any of these problems. I guess I'm just lucky.
     
  42. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    dbrulch...thanks man I will go read them...and i will tell the student who said they were erased that that is incorrect.

    zdoc...Maybe you can tell us, DID the dean come into your classroom and threaten you with explusion if you wrote negative comments on the internet? What was YOUR perspective?
    .
     
  43. Quinn

    Quinn Junior Member

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    Quinn, MS-1, NSU-COM 2003

    Well, I figured I should leave a response. A little background, I am a first year here at NSU-COM, from Virginia. Interviewed at several medical schools but ultimately decided on NSU (Got accepted at several places, MD and DO). I like NSU because the facility is great (especially compared to other DOs but even most MDs, like UVA). The location is great, and its commitment to primary care (main reason).

    I have no doubt in my mind I made a good choice in attending NSU. For the record, I am NOT involved with SGA or any class representation, I do NOT have any political interest or am a bedfellow of any administration. I just want to give my opinion.

    Anyways, the school is good. A few tweaks here, a few tweaks there, of course. The tests could be a LITTLE more clinically related (read: Immunology exam somewhat too molecular for my taste, but what do I know). And I think the OMM Department needs a little bit of rearrangement, BUT the school is doing a lot on getting new administration. But the classes ahead of me have done average on the OMM parts of the Boards, so they are doing something right (We were given statistics about a month and a half ago).

    The faculty is very accessible and really try to get to know the students. There is very little competition in our class, everyone is friendly and you even get people emailing out their notes/study guides they have made up. We are all a big family. That is definately a big PLUS for this school... other med student friends of mine (MD/DO both) complain to me about the somewhat fierce competition in their class. None here.

    In re: to the third and fourth year rotations, I must admit I know only a moderate amount of information on it. From the M4s and M3s I have talked to, you have a good choice in where you want to go on your rotations (again, I am only a first year and haven't done any of it myself). You are allowed several "tracks" you can go on... so if you aren't happy with North Broward or NJ you can go to Tampa or wherever. You can research the hospitals and talk to the faculty before you decide. In re: to anything else about rotations, I know very little. But it seems to me that we have a good choice in where we want to go (supposedly they are trying to create some more tracks outside of FL, like GA).

    The fact that NSU won an award (three years ago, I think?) from AMSA (made up of medical students, ahem) can't be ignored. To those that don't know, NSU won some SHerperd Broad Award for Excellence a few years back (very prestigious). First DO school to do so. Other schools that won are... Baylor... ack I can't remember the other ones. So the school is in good company in regards to that.

    You get very very good early clinical experience here at NSU. I think by the second month you are shadowing a community physician (FP, IM, peds). Luck of the draw, some docs let you do H/Ps early, some don't let you do much, but you are still exposed to patient care, very important.

    What else can I say? I think the school needs a little work, but what school doesn't? The OMM dept is the only big thing I can think of.

    And as for censorship or whatever, I admit I have seen NONE of this. The Dean (second year for him I think) is a good honest man from what i have seen. He is genuinely concerned for our well-being. He talks with us whenever he can during our Med Ed Hours. AND he is instituting this "Lunch with the Dean" where he will go out with six medical students (of varying years) in a very informal setting (he takes you out to lunch somewhere) and you can talk about whatever you want. He wants to know our input.

    I definately recommend NSU to anyone who is considering it. I am not saying this because I really care about what the administration thinks. I'm not trying to get on anyone's good side. I am very happy at NSU, I am learing a LOT, and I am going to make a good doctor. So far, I think NSU has prepared me pretty well (again I am only an M-1). But heck after that virology exam I think I could identify a virus by how it SMELLS. lol.

    Anyways, if anyone has any questions, feel free to email me, [email protected] Dunno how unprecedented that is, giving out an email address, but I am just an honest M1 who is willing to give out his opinion to anyone who wants to listen. Much like that Adrian feller.

     
  44. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    actually, quinn i would give out my opinion even if No one was listening...LOL
    Thanks for your insight...its interesting that you haven't heard about it, I got swamped by a bunch of students (i tutor physio) who were greatly offended, and I confirmed it with one of your (M1)student representatives who will remain nameless.
    its nice to hear there are changes happening, I agree with a lot of your points about some of the faculty being very accessible...some cant write very clearly..its enough to make your HEART ache (hint, quinn am i wrong) but
    the effort is there with four major exceptions in first year. Second year is much more hit or miss. Try to take advantage of the Physician exposure, a lot of people dont...its a great time to practice focused H/Ps, most docs will let you do it, a lot of students dont put enough effort into these PRACTICAL exposures.
    I did see a posting from another place about the Kansas faculty that are being recruited...the kansas students seemed sad to have them leave..so that may be a bright spot also...

    dbrulch...i found the sites you were referring too...there was a couple of minor comments by some guy called the dragonking, he and our resident toady were trading blows.
    and some one called j----- from NSU didnt want to make any comment on the prison rotation...SOOOOOO...now the question is...if nothing really THAT bad was said, why did the moderator write such a strong statement about people writing negative comments on that thread...


    One last point, someone seemed to think that half naked bodies dancing around MIAMI BEACH was a strange thing? THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE POSITIVES ON MY LIST...ahem...

    and also, I doubt seriously that Nova would try to mislead NEW INCOMING STUDENTS about the prison rotations, thats a ridiculous suggestion, I think that the problem the first years may have had is that it was instituted AFTER they arrived? It really isnt an issue to me, although I would assume most people with an ounce of intelligence that it should be optional, however, if you know of it during the application process, then its a mute point in my book, if you come here with a full understanding of the program and if no one lied to you, well then, you made your choice dont bitch, just like you shouldn't bitch about the dress code...thats just silliness.
     
  45. Quinn

    Quinn Junior Member

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    About the, uh, first year thing... that would make my heart ache. I can't really compare that class to any other similar class, simply because I've only taken the undergrad version of it... but I think the professor did an okay job. The test was adequate for what he covered in lecture. No tricks or anything. It was rather straightforward. I think SOME of it may have to do with that a lot of students were blown off of their pedestal. Most of us did really well last semester, and this was the first test where the average was low. I am by no means a stellar student, usually get a few points above the average. (Except immuno, oh man).

    In re: to the prison thing I agree with you. If you know about it before you come here, that's good. I think it would be an incredible learning experience, but it isn't for anyone. It should be a volunteer elective. I think they will instill it next year like that. For those that don't really know, you can do your rural rotations at a prison hospital (totally safe), for a month. The hospital administrators came in and talked to our class and we were free to ask anything we want. I left the auditorium thinking it would simply be a great learning experience, but that if I were a female I might feel somewhat uncomfortable.

    Anywho, the school is still great. That's my opinion.

    later
    Q


    [This message has been edited by Quinn (edited 03-22-2000).]
     
  46. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    Good points (regarding the pedestal)...physiology is probably the first real THINKING course that you get into...other than needing some proofreading and getting rid of those awful flow charts (too much information in too small of a space), i think that the effort and time this professor has put into his posistion is VASTLY superior to the previous instructor...also, its getting harder and harder to accurately judge their quality, because while they present a handout once during a semester, I have the advantage of teaching the same subject 30-40 times during the same timeframe, so it would be unfair for me to be too harsh, IF i didnt learn a few instructional tricks to make it easier that he will eventually discover, i wouldn't be much of a tutor.
    a couple of tips: In physio (and most Conceptual courses) try to Draw a picture of the sentence, dont try to understand the words, let the words drive your drawing and then look to see if the drawing makes sense to you...you can save a TON of time this way..and you will find that you dont need to bother with his diagrams since you end up PRODUCING a similar picture.
    ...write me when you get to bacteriology, i have a system (not a table) for learning this stuff that you may or may not find helpful....thanks for your insights...john.
     
  47. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    John,

    I was the one who made the comment about Miami Beach. I did not think it was bad, just strange compared with where I live now. I had a great time down there and can not wait to move! Did you say that you matched at Florida Hospital, East Orlando? Does this hospital provide medical care to some state prisons? I thought it did and was curious as to what you thought in reference tothe whole rotation issue. I understand that it is a not the same because I think they treat patients at the hospital and not at the prison. I would like to thank all of the current NSU students for posting and giving future students an idea of what we are getting into.

    -Joshua
     
  48. ZDoc

    ZDoc Junior Member
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    In regards to the prison rotation, it is optional. I volunteered for it! It sounds like a great place for hands on ( including surgery). The dean was upset over previous postings on this message board. I think people were probably putting him down and he got upset. I don't think I blame him. I'm very pleased with the quality of education I'm recieving at Nova. Most of the second year professors are great teachers as well as physicians. As far as rotations this year, I'm in the North Broward Health district. I've heard that they work you hard, but you learn a lot. I'm looking foward to it.
     
  49. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    zdoc, are you saying you don't blame him for being upset or for his ACTIONS? what did happen regarding him, what was the words as he used them to address the class...see what i'm getting at? its not whether he has a right to be upset, thats not an issue, its whether he has a right to threaten to use the behavioral standards committee (a legitimate disciplinary body) to kick out students who freely express opinions on the internet...do you agree with THAT? (emphasis not anger [​IMG] )

    Roll tide: I have no idea about how Florida East Orlando relates to the prison issue, you lost me, and its NOT part of my internship or residency requirement to go to a prison hospital, but if it were, and if i disagreed with it, i have the right to vocalize a complaint on the internet and its not your place or the deans to tell me different.

    PS: since YOU brought it up, Clarify an issue for me: you think our system of providing FREE medical care to prisoners while their VICTIMS often have NONE is fair?

    and as for it being a PRISON hospital, not a PRISON and this somehow being different... IS ANYONE REALLY THAT STUPID??????
    if a prisoner with a life sentence without parole is pissed off at you or just thinks "hey I can grab that bitches tits" IS THERE ANYTHING they can do to punish him? and does it make ANY difference whether he is serving his life sentence in the general population or temporarily in the hospital because he is faking an ulcer by inserting some aspirin deep in his rectum and faking belly pain?
    you have to remember that prisons are VACATIONS and the prisoners know this: it is their SPRING BREAK...dont think they aren't looking at you and admiring your butt...because they are.
     
  50. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    uhhh. i meant PRISON HOSPITALS are vactions....sorry.
     

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