NP/MPH

[kyrae04]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hello! I am a recent graduate (as of 3 weeks ago, woohoo) with a BS in Biology. I was originally set out for med school but after my low GPA and dating a med student, I am thinking of going down a different path. Also, I am going to be taking 1-2 years off this year and possibly next (much to my father's dismay) to gain some relevant experience, save some money, and figure out my next step.

I am very interested in public health and medicine. I started off my public health journey thinking I wanted to get my MHA and go into administration, but I realized I want to be more involved with the policy and patient care parts of healthcare. Since I am interested in the patient care aspect of healthcare, I am contemplating either a PA/MPH or NP/MPH (leaning more toward the latter).

Unfortunately my GPA is not where I would like it to be, with both my overall and science around a 2.9. Most NP/PA schools want at least a 3.0. I was slightly above the 50th percentile on the GRE with absolutely no studying, and am currently studying to retake it this summer.

Long story short, I guess my question is this: Should I pursue an NP/MPH degree (either dual or separately) with my scores next application cycle? I know I can improve my GRE and I am a fairly decent writer, with the possibility of several great rec letters. I am in the process of getting a job in the hospital, hopefully as a PCA, nurse assistant, etc. I am also beginning a research project with a very well known member and professor in the public health community.

OR, with all that, should I pursue an MPH degree separately to have an improved GPA then go for an NP/DNP program? I wonder if the extra cost and time of all that, while obviously not desirable, are worth it in the long run if I can get a well paying job to pay off my loans and eat more than ramen right away? Unfortunately, I am already ~$32,000 in debt from undergrad.

Also, with the combination of the NP and MPH degrees, what career possibilities are there? I am more than well aware of job possibilities of each individual degree, but am curious what I can do with both of them! I am really interested in the ED, oncology, hospital based, psychiatric, and surgical NP specializations.

Anyone with experience, in/went through the same situation, or whatever, I very much appreciate your time and input.

Thank you!

 

[deleted6669]

congrats on the bio degree. I know there are several dual PA/MPH programs out there. don't know if there are for NP as well , but would assume so. getting an mph is a good idea on several levels; an MPAS as a masters degree is fairly worthless aside from the pa cert. An mph allows you to work at a higher rate of pay for the federal govt if you ever work for the state dept, etc. Getting the MPH as part of a dual degree program is likely faster and cheaper than doing them separately.
an MPH also sets you up nicely for volunteer work overseas and/or a later doctoral degree, such as a a DrPH or DHSc.
best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[kyrae04]

congrats on the bio degree. I know there are several dual PA/MPH programs out there. don't know if there are for NP as well , but would assume so. getting an mph is a good idea on several levels; an MPAS as a masters degree is fairly worthless aside from the pa cert. An mph allows you to work at a higher rate of pay for the federal govt if you ever work for the state dept, etc. Getting the MPH as part of a dual degree program is likely faster and cheaper than doing them separately.
an MPH also sets you up nicely for volunteer work overseas and/or a later doctoral degree, such as a a DrPH or DHSc.
best of luck whatever you decide.

emedpa,

Thank you so much for your reply! I am definitely interested in NP or PA in addition to the MPH. I want to be able to practice in a hospital in patient care as an NP or PA and specialize in either emergency med, surgery, psychiatry, oncology, or hospital-based. With the MPH I would love to do a little health promotion, or help out those who cannot afford insurance, healthcare, etc. in any way I can from the payment to the treatment. Hence being passionate about both degrees.

I am stuck between the PA and NP, though assuming I can even get into one of them. The PA seems much tougher through school with practically a med school degree crammed into 2-3 years, but then the lifestyle seems easier with less hours and less time being on call for patients. I have also read it is more office work, which does not necessarily appeal to me.

On the other hand the NP seems, in comparison, like less work through school but then like a nurse's schedule, more unpredictable and more hours required. However it sounds like more patient treatment which appeals to me.

I think my next step from here other than preparing essays, GRE prep, etc. would be to shadow/meet with an NP and PA to ask questions and get a feel for what is a right fit for me. I always appreciate these forums because people reply with all different experiences, paths, and careers.

Just trying to decide what to do with my life... I was hoping to have it figured out by now, but I am trying to keep an open mind!

 

[kyrae04]

I am just worried with my GPA (right under the minimum for NP and PA programs) about getting into a program. That's why I wasn't sure if I should get my MPH and apply with a higher GPA from that, but then it takes so much more time and money so there's that...

 

[deleted6669]

emedpa,
I want to be able to practice in a hospital in patient care as an NP or PA and specialize in either emergency med, surgery, psychiatry, oncology, or hospital-based.

I have also read it is more office work, which does not necessarily appeal to me.

On the other hand the NP seems, in comparison, like less work through school but then like a nurse's schedule, more unpredictable and more hours required. However it sounds like more patient treatment which appeals to me.

some specialties like emergency med and surgery are easier to get into as a PA, and some like nicu, peds, and psych are easier to get into as an NP. some, like oncology and cardiology, don't have a preference for one over the other.
PAs and NPs working in the same setting do the same things. neither does more "office work " than the other in a given setting. both work the same hours if at similar jobs.
for more info on the pa profession see www.aapa.org and www.physicianassistantforum.com
there are also many postgrad (paid) training programs available for PAs in most specialties. these are optional at the present time. links to most can be found here: www.appap.org
best of luck.

 

[NYCGuy86]

I want to be able to practice in a hospital in patient care as an NP or PA and specialize in either emergency med, surgery, psychiatry, oncology, or hospital-based.

That's quite a diverse list of specialties! If you're not sure of which specialty you're interested in, then perhaps PA may be a better fit. With NP, you choose the type of NP that you would like to be, which somewhat limits you to specific areas of practice (though not always). For example, a Family Nurse Practitioner is educated and trained in family practice across the lifespan, a Neonatal Nurse Practitioner specializes in critically ill and recovering infants, a Psychiatric-Mental Health Nurse Practitioner focuses on psychiatry, and an Adult Acute Care Nurse Practitioner focuses on the inpatient and specialty clinic settings.

Also, if you're interested in an intra-operative role in surgery (i.e. first assisting in the OR), PA is more straightforward for that, and there are more jobs available for PAs specifically including that role. Yes, it's possible for NPs to do so as well, however PA, at least at this time, makes more sense. For me personally, although I'm very interested in cardiac surgery and the management of those patients, I have no interest in first assisting (I'm more interested in critical care), so I'm happy with my choice to go the nursing route. If I was interested in surgical assisting, PA would be ideal. Same with emergency medicine. Many EDs do have NPs in the fast track area, as well as the main ED, however there are more PA jobs available in the main ED. For psychiatry or neonatology, NP makes more sense. Otherwise, I think either would be fine.

I am stuck between the PA and NP, though assuming I can even get into one of them. The PA seems much tougher through school with practically a med school degree crammed into 2-3 years, but then the lifestyle seems easier with less hours and less time being on call for patients. I have also read it is more office work, which does not necessarily appeal to me.

On the other hand the NP seems, in comparison, like less work through school but then like a nurse's schedule, more unpredictable and more hours required. However it sounds like more patient treatment which appeals to me.

I think you'll find many PAs say that they don't work less hours than their physician colleagues, many times working the hours and days that the physicians don't want to work (i.e. holidays, weekends, etc). Perhaps it depends on the setting.

PAs and NPs frequently work the same jobs (i.e. an MICU might have both PAs and NPs on service, and would advertise for either interchangeably), with the same schedules. Not sure what you mean by "office work" (do you mean working in a private practice?), but whatever it is, I'm sure it applies to NPs as well as PAs.

Remember that to become an NP, you must be a Registered Nurse first. Since you already have a BS, you would be able to apply for accelerated BSN programs, as well as accelerated "entry to advanced practice" programs, which allow you to complete the undergraduate nursing curriculum in a little over a year, become licensed as an RN, then continue on into the NP program of your choice. If you choose the Acute Care NP, you will most definitely have to work for at least a year in an acute care setting after the undergraduate portion of the program, then you'll be allowed to return for the NP program. Psych and Neonatal NP programs generally also have the same requirement of at least a year of experience in their respective fields. So, you should keep that in mind as you ponder this.

SO, I think you should do more research into both professions, and think about what area you would like to work in. Perhaps working as a PCA/CNA would be helpful at exposing you to the hospital setting (and note that PA schools like to see applicants with healthcare experience, oftentimes being a requirement). Also, look into whether you've completed all of the prerequisite courses for BSN/NP and PA programs. Typically for a BSN (whether accelerated or traditional), you'll need Anatomy and Physiology I and II, Microbiology, General Chemistry (up to two semesters), Statistics, General Psychology, Lifespan Human Development, and at least Algebra and Trigonometry. Nursing schools typically have their own special chemistry courses for health professionals, however I assume as a Biology major you've already taken chemistry through Organic Chemistry II, and that would obviously cover it since it's higher level (I didn't take the nursing chemistry and don't have to, since I did Gen Chem I and II, Organic I, and Analytical Chem...I'm a science nerd, haha).

Good luck!

 

[fab4fan]

Make sure you are not taking on more student loan debt than you will be able to repay. Nursing jobs and NP jobs are very competitive right now, and there's no guarantee you'll be able to get a job right away.

 

[SouthSideSteve]

I am stuck between the PA and NP, though assuming I can even get into one of them. The PA seems much tougher through school with practically a med school degree crammed into 2-3 years, but then the lifestyle seems easier with less hours and less time being on call for patients. I have also read it is more office work, which does not necessarily appeal to me.

On the other hand the NP seems, in comparison, like less work through school but then like a nurse's schedule, more unpredictable and more hours required. However it sounds like more patient treatment which appeals to me.

You need to do some more research on both fields. You have some things right, but others are way off.

The amount of hours worked is mostly dependent on the specialty. I work more hours and take more call than any NP in my hospital. Even the NPs on my service leave everyday at 5 like clockwork, while I pull 14-19 hour days.

I also have no idea where our clinic is located. I don't care to know either. The NPs cover clinic/floors.


Not sure where you learned that a nurse's schedule is unpredictable. They are always quick to tell you that their shift ends at 7, if they aren't lined up at the time clock sooner.

 

[LiamNeesons]

The PA seems much tougher through school...

On the other hand the NP seems, in comparison, like less work through school...

Which person would you hire? Which training would you want to have when someone is potentially dying in front of you?

 

[fab4fan]

Which person would you hire? Which training would you want to have when someone is potentially dying in front of you?

Neither. I'd want a physician.

 

[LiamNeesons]

Neither. I'd want a physician.

Great thought. However kyrae04 was asking whether or not he or she should become a PA or NP. Unfortunately, in this scenario that you have misunderstood, physician is not an option.

 

[fab4fan]

Great thought. However kyrae04 was asking whether or not he or she should become a PA or NP. Unfortunately, in this scenario that you have misunderstood, physician is not an option.

I didn't misunderstand it. I said what I'd want as a patient, not which training I'd want for myself.

Don't you ever study? You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time inveighing against nurses/NPs.

 

[LiamNeesons]

Fab, I'm going to PM you as I no longer feel the need to defend myself against childish comments in front of an audience that couldn't care less.

 

[pamac]

An RN or NP with an MPH fits pretty well into the public health role, and can be lucrative if you want to work on management issues, or work on driving policy. What I've noticed is it's pretty hard to pry a PA away from roles where they see patients and bill because they bring in revenue. A lot of the public health issues make more sense to farm out to a cheaper employee, which is arguably the nurse. NPs also may feel comfortable in that role if they've come from that environment as an RN. That's not to say PAs don't work in public health and pry themselves away from patients to work on other things, but it can be thankless and seem less appealing than just going out and essentially healing the sick, which the RN isn't equipped to do like a provider. I know a few nurses with MPHs. They all make close to six figures or more in management. I also work with some NPs that are directors of units, and they make more than they would as providers. A nursing degree allows for a considerable amount of latitude, it's not just floor nursing. There's a lot of ways you can go with it. I currently don't know any nurses interested in being PAs, just because it usually takes you in a different direction as far as your career prospects.

 

[ILE2014]

An RN or NP with an MPH fits pretty well into the public health role, and can be lucrative if you want to work on management issues, or work on driving policy. What I've noticed is it's pretty hard to pry a PA away from roles where they see patients and bill because they bring in revenue. A lot of the public health issues make more sense to farm out to a cheaper employee, which is arguably the nurse. NPs also may feel comfortable in that role if they've come from that environment as an RN. That's not to say PAs don't work in public health and pry themselves away from patients to work on other things, but it can be thankless and seem less appealing than just going out and essentially healing the sick, which the RN isn't equipped to do like a provider. I know a few nurses with MPHs. They all make close to six figures or more in management. I also work with some NPs that are directors of units, and they make more than they would as providers. A nursing degree allows for a considerable amount of latitude, it's not just floor nursing. There's a lot of ways you can go with it. I currently don't know any nurses interested in being PAs, just because it usually takes you in a different direction as far as your career prospects.

Agreed. I think if you want to do patient care for your entire career, PA is probably a better choice than NP. But, if you'd like to have the flexibility of hospital management, Quality Management, and other jobs that use your MPH, I think a nursing degree would be a better fit. I dont think it has anything to do with the skills of the NPs or PAs when it comes to the dual (practicing then management) role, its more about the depth of the nursing field in hospital admin and public health areas.

 

[matthewandrew]

If you are not fond of becoming an RN first before becoming an NP, I would suggest becoming a PA instead.


———————————
UCLA FNP Class of 2016

 

[Allan Chandy]

Good Evening everybody,

I'm a current junior undergraduate attending the university of Delaware majoring in something called Health Behavior Science (falls under health promotion/health education), and since late 2014, I've become interested in public health. During my winter, I took the time to research what kinds of jobs I can get with a bachelors in health behavior science, with a minor in public health, I'm also waiting to minor in business administration because I'm raising my GPA to enter the program. Anyway, I have read up on what the profession of infection prevention is all about, and I'm writing to ask you if it would be possible for someone like me to get involved in this field, without having a nursing degree...I was given the opportunity to shadow an infection preventionist at a hospital. I have yet to fulfill that opportunity, but first I want to understand if I will he able to get a job out of this in the end. Could I end up getting an internship, and research experience? I know I would really need to get a certification, but even then...would I be able to work as an infection preventionist? I am looking to work as one even if it is a temp job for a couple or few years that's if they allow me, before going for my masters in hospital epidemiology. Thank you!

 

[Allan Chandy]

some specialties like emergency med and surgery are easier to get into as a PA, and some like nicu, peds, and psych are easier to get into as an NP. some, like oncology and cardiology, don't have a preference for one over the other.
PAs and NPs working in the same setting do the same things. neither does more "office work " than the other in a given setting. both work the same hours if at similar jobs.
for more info on the pa profession see www.aapa.org and www.physicianassistantforum.com
there are also many postgrad (paid) training programs available for PAs in most specialties. these are optional at the present time. links to most can be found here: www.appap.org
best of luck.

Good day good sir,

I'm a current junior undergraduate attending the university of Delaware majoring in something called Health Behavior Science (falls under health promotion/health education), and since late 2014, I've become interested in public health. During my winter, I took the time to research what kinds of jobs I can get with a bachelors in health behavior science, with a minor in public health, I'm also waiting to minor in business administration because I'm raising my GPA to enter the program. Anyway, I have read up on what the profession of infection prevention is all about, and I'm writing to ask you if it would be possible for someone like me to get involved in this field, without having a nursing degree...I was given the opportunity to shadow an infection preventionist at a hospital. I have yet to fulfill that opportunity, but first I want to understand if I will he able to get a job out of this in the end. Could I end up getting an internship, and research experience? I know I would really need to get a certification, but even then...would I be able to work as an infection preventionist? I am looking to work as one even if it is a temp job for a couple or few years that's if they allow me, before going for my masters in hospital epidemiology. Thank you!

 

[pamac]

There must be jobs out there for epidemiologists, but the hospital environment really is nurse driven. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions to the rule that you have to be a nurse to have doors open to you, but you need to have an understanding of why nurses are better positioned for those roles. For one, nurses from the backbone of hospital care. Certainly, providers are the care leaders, but nursing runs the show simply because we spend the most time with the patients and have shepherd them through the hospital experience from start to finish. Most of that shepherding is grunt work and attending to basic needs. If you don't know what general tasks take place, it's hard to direct projects focused on those activities.... Activities that form the bulk of what goes on in the facility. Being a nurse not only opens doors, it's pretty much a requirement. Even as a nurse, it can be difficult to gain traction among all the various personalities and interests. It's all about maximizing your possibilities in the workforce, and without that nursing degree, you are hoping for entrance into a niche position. Now, public health is a different story. It's just that hospitals usually require their hires to justify their existence, and a nurse can usually be tasked with picking up a few extra projects that only a nurse could do, and that makes them more cost effective than a specialized non nurse. That comes in handy to save costs.

 

[Allan Chandy]

There must be jobs out there for epidemiologists, but the hospital environment really is nurse driven. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions to the rule that you have to be a nurse to have doors open to you, but you need to have an understanding of why nurses are better positioned for those roles. For one, nurses from the backbone of hospital care. Certainly, providers are the care leaders, but nursing runs the show simply because we spend the most time with the patients and have shepherd them through the hospital experience from start to finish. Most of that shepherding is grunt work and attending to basic needs. If you don't know what general tasks take place, it's hard to direct projects focused on those activities.... Activities that form the bulk of what goes on in the facility. Being a nurse not only opens doors, it's pretty much a requirement. Even as a nurse, it can be difficult to gain traction among all the various personalities and interests. It's all about maximizing your possibilities in the workforce, and without that nursing degree, you are hoping for entrance into a niche position. Now, public health is a different story. It's just that hospitals usually require their hires to justify their existence, and a nurse can usually be tasked with picking up a few extra projects that only a nurse could do, and that makes them more cost effective than a specialized non nurse. That comes in handy to save costs.

I see, so would it be possible for me to shadow a nurse, and also gain experience that "only a nurse can do"? I imagine they won't let me without a nursing license...it all boils down to credentials now. Which I think is completely ridiculous. There's no better way to learn, gain experience, and equally be qualified to take on those extra projects than first hand experience. Then again, hospitals looking to hire someone passionate like me might not look at it that way.

 

[Allan Chandy]

There must be jobs out there for epidemiologists, but the hospital environment really is nurse driven. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions to the rule that you have to be a nurse to have doors open to you, but you need to have an understanding of why nurses are better positioned for those roles. For one, nurses from the backbone of hospital care. Certainly, providers are the care leaders, but nursing runs the show simply because we spend the most time with the patients and have shepherd them through the hospital experience from start to finish. Most of that shepherding is grunt work and attending to basic needs. If you don't know what general tasks take place, it's hard to direct projects focused on those activities.... Activities that form the bulk of what goes on in the facility. Being a nurse not only opens doors, it's pretty much a requirement. Even as a nurse, it can be difficult to gain traction among all the various personalities and interests. It's all about maximizing your possibilities in the workforce, and without that nursing degree, you are hoping for entrance into a niche position. Now, public health is a different story. It's just that hospitals usually require their hires to justify their existence, and a nurse can usually be tasked with picking up a few extra projects that only a nurse could do, and that makes them more cost effective than a specialized non nurse. That comes in handy to save costs.

By the way, Ms. Pam (excuse me if your a gentlemen, sir lol), what kind of jobs are out there for bachelors to gain experience in infectious disease epidemiology so that they can work a couple or few years before getting there masters? Can you list a few? It'll help me with my plans. As for trying to be a non-nurse/specialized infection preventionist, I'm just trying to piggyback off of this job to save up and do my masters in hospital epi. since infection control is within that area. Thank you very much for the input, though! What type of nurse are you ma'am/sir?