NPs vs. MD's.

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cbrons said:
Its not their job to know stuff like that... so i dont know why this would be a surprise
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Maybe I was expecting too much from a nursing student who is planning to go to NP school... But if you are going to be a nurse practitioner (NP), I think you should know what a proton is.... and should be able to do basic drug calculation.
 
Psai said:
So with a birth year of 1974 they took the mcat at age 17. Yeah okay.
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Started at the University of Cincinnati in 1974. Took MCAT in 1979. Accepted to University of Cincinnati, Ohio College of Medicine (now Univ. of Toledo), and Ohio University (DO). Ended up going to graduate level nursing program as I was getting married (RN and MSN all in one). Did not want seven more years of FT (hard) schooling & residency as a newly wed. Ended up divorced anyway. Stuck w/ nursing, and got a DNP and was board certified in psych in early 90's.

I am NOT knocking those who chose medical school. I have never met a dumb American medical student, but have met many "cocky" ones. I had the chance, and wished I had taken it, as now I have to have a collaborative agreement w/ an MD to prescribe. My collaborating physician is fantastic (American trained, SUNY). I have worked w/ some fantastic NPs and MDs, and some bad NPs and MDs. I have seen dumb mistakes done all the time, but mainly by NEW NPs, not NEW MDs.

All I am/was trying to say was there are good and bad in all fields. As Ohio moves to remove NP practice barriers (check out Ohio HB 216, which is pending), I sure hope that they require NPs to have at least 3 years collaborative experience w/ an MD before allowing independent practice.

I deeply resent NPs who get their degrees on-line. They still have to do clinical w/ a preceptor (I am a preceptor now, and my student is from a real university, but she really doesn't know much...yet). All have to become ANCC certified (yes, the exam is tough) before getting state APRN license, and all have to do 1500 hour externship in pharm to get CTP (Certificate To Prescribe in Ohio). Many NPs find it hard to get the externship.

My father was an small town Ohio MD, so I know a lot about "how it was", versus how it is now. He started medical school in his fourth year of college. He was given his BS after his first year of medical school. He did one year of internship, and was able to set up as a GP. No FP residency back then. Made a good living, and the insurance companies DID NOT run his practice. Prior authorizations DID NOT exist. HIPPA did not exist. EMR did NOT exist. Long hours did, and phone calls late at night were common. He loved what he did though, and his patients loved him. $28 office visit charge when he retired in 1990. His office assistant was an RN, not an MA.

Finally, as with everything, medicine has greatly changed. Hospitals do anything to "save a buck". Many of my dictations at a former job were sent to medical transcriptionists in India. 90% of the hospitalists were IMGs (most not very good, IMHO.... all seemed unhappy). Patients are "needier" than they used to be, and you now run frequent labs and tests now, as you are always afraid that you will get sued. Calling patients w/ lab results is the worst part of my job, as I often do that after a long day, and am tired. "Google Doctors" exist, and will drive you nuts, as ignorant patients and their family members think that reading any article on the internet makes them an expert. They literally will tell you what and what not to prescribe. Smile, be nice, and then ignore them.

Over and out.
 
Bearcat74 said:
Started at the University of Cincinnati in 1974. Took MCAT in 1979. Accepted to University of Cincinnati, Ohio College of Medicine (now Univ. of Toledo), and Ohio University (DO). Ended up going to graduate level nursing program as I was getting married (RN and MSN all in one). Did not want seven more years of FT (hard) schooling & residency as a newly wed. Ended up divorced anyway. Stuck w/ nursing, and got a DNP and was board certified in psych in early 90's.

I am NOT knocking those who chose medical school. I have never met a dumb American medical student, but have met many "cocky" ones. I had the chance, and wished I had taken it, as now I have to have a collaborative agreement w/ an MD to prescribe. My collaborating physician is fantastic (American trained, SUNY). I have worked w/ some fantastic NPs and MDs, and some bad NPs and MDs. I have seen dumb mistakes done all the time, but mainly by NEW NPs, not NEW MDs.

All I am/was trying to say was there are good and bad in all fields. As Ohio moves to remove NP practice barriers (check out Ohio HB 216, which is pending), I sure hope that they require NPs to have at least 3 years collaborative experience w/ an MD before allowing independent practice.

I deeply resent NPs who get their degrees on-line. They still have to do clinical w/ a preceptor (I am a preceptor now, and my student is from a real university, but she really doesn't know much...yet). All have to become ANCC certified (yes, the exam is tough) before getting state APRN license, and all have to do 1500 hour externship in pharm to get CTP (Certificate To Prescribe in Ohio). Many NPs find it hard to get the externship.

My father was an small town Ohio MD, so I know a lot about "how it was", versus how it is now. He started medical school in his fourth year of college. He was given his BS after his first year of medical school. He did one year of internship, and was able to set up as a GP. No FP residency back then. Made a good living, and the insurance companies DID NOT run his practice. Prior authorizations DID NOT exist. HIPPA did not exist. EMR did NOT exist. Long hours did, and phone calls late at night were common. He loved what he did though, and his patients loved him. $28 office visit charge when he retired in 1990. His office assistant was an RN, not an MA.

Finally, as with everything, medicine has greatly changed. Hospitals do anything to "save a buck". Many of my dictations at a former job were sent to medical transcriptionists in India. 90% of the hospitalists were IMGs (most not very good, IMHO.... all seemed unhappy). Patients are "needier" than they used to be, and you now run frequent labs and tests now, as you are always afraid that you will get sued. Calling patients w/ lab results is the worst part of my job, as I often do that after a long day, and am tired. "Google Doctors" exist, and will drive you nuts, as ignorant patients and their family members think that reading any article on the internet makes them an expert. They literally will tell you what and what not to prescribe. Smile, be nice, and then ignore them.

Over and out.
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There's definitely some dangerously arrogant physicians out there. As to the IMGs, they're like any other doctors- some are good, some are bad. I've worked with a lot of great ones. NPs really need to tighten up their standards if they're going to be unleashing hordes of new grads on the public, with less structured training yet more rights and responsibilities than ever. I've worked with a lot of great NPs, for the record, but not one of them was the sort that was interested in independent practice- they had learned their abilities and limitations over the years and worked closely with their supervising physician.
 
This whole comparison about how NPs are smarter than MDs is not knocking those who chose medical school? You keep saying how the ANCC exam is tough: http://www.nursecredentialing.org/FamilyNP-SampleTest. A first year medical student could answer a good majority of these questions. Tough for a nursing student? sure. for someone in medical school? not at all.

Additionally, if you really want to have the responsibilities of a physician then you should pass the SAME tests. Evidence has already proven that this is not the case since DNPs could not even pass an easier, short version of usmle step 3 (http://www.amednews.com/article/20090608/profession/306089978/1/) WHICH by the way is the most clinical of the exams so dont tell me that its all basic sciences that is not pertinent to practice.

So with that, knowing that your foundational knowledge base is not on to par with that of a medical doctor, you are okay with NPs receiving the same parity as MD and DOs? The way you say it (the time where physicians are at the top is coming to an end) makes it sound like you have a huge chip on your shoulder.
 
AlteredScale said:
This whole comparison about how NPs are smarter than MDs is not knocking those who chose medical school? You keep saying how the ANCC exam is tough: http://www.nursecredentialing.org/FamilyNP-SampleTest. A first year medical student could answer a good majority of these questions. Tough for a nursing student? sure. for someone in medical school? not at all.

Additionally, if you really want to have the responsibilities of a physician then you should pass the SAME tests. Evidence has already proven that this is not the case since DNPs could not even pass an easier, short version of usmle step 3 (http://www.amednews.com/article/20090608/profession/306089978/1/) WHICH by the way is the most clinical of the exams so dont tell me that its all basic sciences that is not pertinent to practice.

So with that, knowing that your foundational knowledge base is not on to par with that of a medical doctor, you are okay with NPs receiving the same parity as MD and DOs? The way you say it (the time where physicians are at the top is coming to an end) makes it sound like you have a huge chip on your shoulder.
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Lmao those questions are so easy.
 
Baller MD said:
Lmao those questions are so easy.
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But a physician should only be able to practice medicine after 3 years of residency... I am not even done with MS2 yet and I got most these questions right... It's an injustice to PA that have more restrictions than these people...
 
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19. The advanced practice registered nurse exhibits professional leadership by: creating a task force to address scope of practice concerns.

That was the correct answer... Wow, they really do indoctrinate their students.
 
Baller MD said:
19. The advanced practice registered nurse exhibits professional leadership by: creating a task force to address scope of practice concerns.

That was the correct answer... Wow, they really do indoctrinate their students.
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I am sure every med student got that one wrong! Do they have these kind of silly questions on step1?
 
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Baller MD said:
19. The advanced practice registered nurse exhibits professional leadership by: creating a task force to address scope of practice concerns.

That was the correct answer... Wow, they really do indoctrinate their students.
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My favorite question on there, and totally not surprised.

I can't believe a question like that could be found on an exam intended to evaluate competence for autonomous practice. If someone could fill me in on what that has to do with pt care, I'd be enlightened.
 
Np should never have autonomous practice
 
Mad Jack said:
sorry you made the wrong choice. Med school isn't nearly as bad as you would imagine, and residency can actually be pretty chill if you choose wisely. As to the "cost driven" nature of things, the ship sinks from the bottom up. The first people to take pay cuts at the hospitals near me were the people in basic functions- transport, food prep, janitorial, CNAs.
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Dude we can't have it both ways as far as training being chill AND making good salaries as a doc. I agree that you can get a "chill" residency but I'd say med school, especially first 2 years/Step1, is pretty hard. Also I get your "bottom up" idea but you gotta remember that the wage rates for people at the bottom are set by the government (min. wage, etc.).

Also, ppl please correct me if Im wrong but who cares if NPs can practice independently? They still don't make the same salary as PCPs in independent states right?

@W19 you said you went to nuring school. Would you say a BS in nurisng is easier than a typical bio/pre med curriculum?
 
W19 said:
Unfortunately they do in about 20 states... It's time for physicians to stop that nonsense. These people are making a mockery out of the system!
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They will stop themselves once they start killing patients.
 
Yadster101 said:
Dude we can't have it both ways as far as training being chill AND making good salaries as a doc. I agree that you can get a "chill" residency but I'd say med school, especially first 2 years/Step1, is pretty hard. Also I get your "bottom up" idea but you gotta remember that the wage rates for people at the bottom are set by the government (min. wage, etc.).

Also, ppl please correct me if Im wrong but who cares if NPs can practice independently? They still don't make the same salary as PCPs in independent states right?

@W19 you said you went to nuring school. Would you say a BS in nurisng is easier than a typical bio/pre med curriculum?
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I did nursing while working 40 hrs/wk, and my GPA did not take a big hit... a BS degree in bio is definitely more difficult than nursing school.
 
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W19 said:
I did nursing while working 40 hrs/wk, and my GPA did not take a big hit... a BS degree in bio is definitely more difficult than nursing school.
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Yup. I worked with a nurse before med school who held two part-time jobs amassing 50 hours a week while she was getting her np "doctorate". In her own words: "why would I go to medical school when I can be a doctor by the time i'm 26 with a fraction of the work." And, yes, she, just like every other np I've encountered, uses the term doctor to equate with physician.

I feel horrible for the millions of people who have legit health issues that are going to these bozos.
 
Final comments from me on this....

The reason independent NPs have "gained traction" is that MDs have certain jobs/areas they don't want to do. Find me an MD who will set up a private psychiatric practice in the "hood"...... ain't going to happen. In Ohio, there are now 400,000 new Medicaid patients (most able bodied young men) since 2012. Many MDs will not take Medicaid patients, as the reimbursement is very low. W/O NPs, these people would have nobody to treat them.

In my last job, the MD owner of the practice told me that his overhead was 51% (rent, utilities, office staff, insurance, etc.....) When the state (Medicaid) is paying you less than 1/2 of what you can get from private insurance, or from cash payers, what would you do?

I have done telepsych from the comfort of my home, to nursing homes in small town, rural eastern Ohio. Lots of dementia, Alzheimer's type stuff. Great job. A 25 minute follow up paid $69.28 from Medicare. NPs get 85% of that. After you write your notes, you probably spend 35 minutes per patient. The money is decent on nursing standards (most NPs earn about $110K per year), but low on MD standards.

And as for the sample test you guys all "did so well on as M1's"... no way you would pass this test. This sample is easy, and not reflective of the real thing. An M3, after general medicine clerkship, no problem, but not an M1.... the test has too many side effect scenarios, med interaction stuff that only somebody w/ real clinical experience is ready for. The test is just as hard as the MCAT, and I took both.

And finally, somebody above asked me if I thought I could pass the MD Psych Cert. Boards. I took a 100 question sample test, and scored a 62% w/o studying one second. Yes, w/ a good "Kaplan Course Review", and w/ my 30 years experience, I think I could pass, although the liver enzyme "metabolism stuff" has always given me problems, and it seemed to have a lot of that on there.

Cheers
 
"The reason independent NPs have "gained traction" is that MDs have certain jobs/areas they don't want to do."

Not true, it's because NPs lobby legislators with this bs when they go into exactly the same fields and geographical areas as doctors.
No one wants to take care of medicaid patients. So many incredibly entitled patients when they don't pay a cent for anything and very demanding.
We learn medications, interactions and side effects in the pre-clinical years. You didn't go to medical school so you wouldn't know. The MCAT is much more difficult than those questions.

Sample questions are supposedly easy but you could only score 62%? After being a psych nurse practitioner for 30 years? "liver enzyme metabolism stuff" Jesus Christ lmao
 
Bearcat74 said:
The reason independent NPs have "gained traction" is that MDs have certain jobs/areas they don't want to do. Find me an MD who will set up a private psychiatric practice in the "hood"...... ain't going to happen. In Ohio, there are now 400,000 new Medicaid patients (most able bodied young men) since 2012. Many MDs will not take Medicaid patients, as the reimbursement is very low. W/O NPs, these people would have nobody to treat them.
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Since I can't imagine you're stupid enough to actually believe these lies, I have to assume you're intentionally being misleading and voluntarily spreading the typical nursing propaganda.
 
Yadster101 said:
Dude we can't have it both ways as far as training being chill AND making good salaries as a doc. I agree that you can get a "chill" residency but I'd say med school, especially first 2 years/Step1, is pretty hard. Also I get your "bottom up" idea but you gotta remember that the wage rates for people at the bottom are set by the government (min. wage, etc.).

Also, ppl please correct me if Im wrong but who cares if NPs can practice independently? They still don't make the same salary as PCPs in independent states right?

@W19 you said you went to nuring school. Would you say a BS in nurisng is easier than a typical bio/pre med curriculum?
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250k as a psychiatrist is pretty good pay to me, and after a residency where you average 45 hours a week after intern year. And MS 1/2 isn't actually that hard unless you're stressing yourself out. If you just do your best without killing yourself and don't care about your class rank, it's really not bad at all. I have plenty of free time, and have kept close with all of my friends back home and maintained my relationship quite well. I thought it would be nothing but suffering for 4 years, but honestly, it's way less stressful than spending 50 hours a week as an RT in the ICU lol, so I've been enjoying the break.

As to why we care about independent practice- because right now is a reading phase for how broad they can stretch midlevel autonomy. Nip it in the bud before medicine crumbles like anesthesia is doing now.
 
Mad Jack said:
250k as a psychiatrist is pretty good pay to me, and after a residency where you average 45 hours a week after intern year. And MS 1/2 isn't actually that hard unless you're stressing yourself out. If you just do your best without killing yourself and don't care about your class rank, it's really not bad at all. I have plenty of free time, and have kept close with all of my friends back home and maintained my relationship quite well. I thought it would be nothing but suffering for 4 years, but honestly, it's way less stressful than spending 50 hours a week as an RT in the ICU lol, so I've been enjoying the break.

As to why we care about independent practice- because right now is a reading phase for how broad they can stretch midlevel autonomy. Nip it in the bud before medicine crumbles like anesthesia is doing now.
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No one would like to be below average...
 
W19 said:
No one would like to be below average...
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That's all in your head. As I've said about many medical students, med school is hell because they make it so. I don't care if I'm 100th out of 100- I'm still passing, and in one of the most difficult training programs in the world. I'll take that. (Granted, I'm in the upper half of the class regardless, without stressing about it.)
 
Mad Jack said:
That's all in your head. As I've said about many medical students, med school is hell because they make it so. I don't care if I'm 100th out of 100- I'm still passing, and in one of the most difficult training programs in the world. I'll take that. (Granted, I'm in the upper half of the class regardless, without stressing about it.)
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I get what you're saying, but aren't you exaggerating a little bit? I mean, dead last? And you wouldn't be at all upset by that?

I mean, in my last course I was #1 out of 150. I'm not saying that's typical for me (because it's not), but I have to at least admit it feels nice. I couldn't pretend to not care because it feels so good, ya know?:zip:
 
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Mad Jack said:
That's all in your head. As I've said about many medical students, med school is hell because they make it so. I don't care if I'm 100th out of 100- I'm still passing, and in one of the most difficult training programs in the world. I'll take that. (Granted, I'm in the upper half of the class regardless, without stressing about it.)
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I go to a P/F school with internal rankings (but that's only for AOA and even then class rank contributes very little to AOA nomination). I have scored above average on the past 2 tests, but not as above average as I would have liked. I know I shouldn't be stressing but I can't help it. Do you have any tips for how to adopt a mindset such as yours?
 
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Psai said:
"The reason independent NPs have "gained traction" is that MDs have certain jobs/areas they don't want to do."

Not true, it's because NPs lobby legislators with this bs when they go into exactly the same fields and geographical areas as doctors.
No one wants to take care of medicaid patients. So many incredibly entitled patients when they don't pay a cent for anything and very demanding.
We learn medications, interactions and side effects in the pre-clinical years. You didn't go to medical school so you wouldn't know. The MCAT is much more difficult than those questions.

Sample questions are supposedly easy but you could only score 62%? After being a psych nurse practitioner for 30 years? "liver enzyme metabolism stuff" Jesus Christ lmao
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"Liver enzyme metabolism stuff" - classic. It's not like any of that stuff is important or anything, particularly in psychiatry of all fields where drug interactions are a routine and critical part of the practice.
 
TaroBubbleTea said:
I go to a P/F school with internal rankings (but that's only for AOA and even then class rank contributes very little to AOA nomination). I have scored above average on the past 2 tests, but not as above average as I would have liked. I know I shouldn't be stressing but I can't help it. Do you have any tips for how to adopt a mindset such as yours?
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Work as hard as you're able to work and just accept that you're doing that. If you want to do better, then you need to work harder - plain and simple. At some point you will fall on the spectrum where the line of "amount of time I'm willing to work" and "academic performance" meet and that will be a happy balance for you. For some people, the former is infinite and the latter is of utmost importance. For others, that isn't the case.

You can always put in more time to study and improve your performance on exams. Unless you're someone that picks things up super quickly, though, you will have to figure out how hard you're willing to work and whether that much time is worth it to achieve your academic goals.
 
TaroBubbleTea said:
I go to a P/F school with internal rankings (but that's only for AOA and even then class rank contributes very little to AOA nomination). I have scored above average on the past 2 tests, but not as above average as I would have liked. I know I shouldn't be stressing but I can't help it. Do you have any tips for how to adopt a mindset such as yours?
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Bro you should have the mindset that you need to do the best you can. The match is much easier when you have a high step 1 and killer grades.
 
Psai said:
Bro you should have the mindset that you need to do the best you can. The match is much easier when you have a high step 1 and killer grades.
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I'd argue being happy is more important than the match, but that really depends on your priorities. I just don't care about training for a job enough to make myself completely miserable for it.
 
Mad Jack said:
I'd argue being happy is more important than the match, but that really depends on your priorities. I just don't care about training for a job enough to make myself completely miserable for it.
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It's only 300k and 4 years of your life, no big deal as long as you're happy amirite?

I mean it's not like studying a lot is good investment to go into what you want, where you want for the kind of medicine you will be practicing for 30 years or so. Some people don't match but it's okay as long as they're happy.
 
TaroBubbleTea said:
I go to a P/F school with internal rankings (but that's only for AOA and even then class rank contributes very little to AOA nomination). I have scored above average on the past 2 tests, but not as above average as I would have liked. I know I shouldn't be stressing but I can't help it. Do you have any tips for how to adopt a mindset such as yours?
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Don't try to get into that mindset unless you will be ok with psych/FM/IM/PM&R...
 
Psai said:
It's only 300k and 4 years of your life, no big deal as long as you're happy amirite?

I mean it's not like studying a lot is good investment to go into what you want, where you want for the kind of medicine you will be practicing for 30 years or so. Some people don't match but it's okay as long as they're happy.
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Meh, I'll match. Not everyone wants to be a dermatoproctologicalneurosurgeon. I'll probably end up in a similar spot as many of the classmates of mine that stressed themselves out ten times as much. Given my interests, I don't exactly need to be a superstar student. Like I said, I'm in the upper half of my class, and often in the top 10%, I just don't stress about it. If I do well, I do well, if I don't, I don't. I've had an exam or two where I was in the bottom 10%, **** happens. Ultimately I still ended up in the "average" range for my final grade.

I will say that I'll bust my ass for the Steps though. Those are worth dumping a bunch of time into- the stress/benefit ratio is far better than what you're getting for busting your *** to go from a HP to a H in a preclinical class.
 
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Mad Jack said:
I'd argue being happy is more important than the match, but that really depends on your priorities. I just don't care about training for a job enough to make myself completely miserable for it.
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This is a dangerous mindset, because the training you get can affect the job you end up with. While I agree that happiness is important, I think it's better to prioritize that long-term. That may mean sacrifice in the short term in order to put yourself in the best position long-term.
 
22031 Alum said:
This is a dangerous mindset, because the training you get can affect the job you end up with. While I agree that happiness is important, I think it's better to prioritize that long-term. That may mean sacrifice in the short term in order to put yourself in the best position long-term.
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:shrug: Outside of academics (which I completely loathe), how often does where you train actually matter in IM and psych?
 
22031 Alum said:
This is a dangerous mindset, because the training you get can affect the job you end up with. While I agree that happiness is important, I think it's better to prioritize that long-term. That may mean sacrifice in the short term in order to put yourself in the best position long-term.
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I think the point he's trying to make is that at a certain point, the negatives of constant study, lack of sleep, and whatever else outweighs the benefits of going from that B to an A or whatever grading a school uses.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I think the point he's trying to make is that at a certain point, the negatives of constant study, lack of sleep, and whatever else outweighs the benefits of going from that B to an A or whatever grading a school uses.
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Yeah, this. I average right around the top 30-40% of the class in most of my tests, which is fine with me. I don't study much. I could study an extra 2 hours every day and probably make it into the top quarter.... but it's just not worth it. I'd go mad studying that much.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I think the point he's trying to make is that at a certain point, the negatives of constant study, lack of sleep, and whatever else outweighs the benefits of going from that B to an A or whatever grading a school uses.
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Pretty much. The net effect of my working my *** off to boost my grades by 5 or 6% really won't be of much benefit to my ultimate application, and would come at the cost of years of misery. Given that I'm going to be coming out from a DO school, my options within my state are already limited to a particular group of programs that aren't very competitive to begin with. I highly doubt going from a P to a HP or HP to H would ever matter in my case lol.
 
Mad Jack said:
Meh, I'll match. Not everyone wants to be a dermatoproctologicalneurosurgeon. I'll probably end up in a similar spot as many of the classmates of mine that stressed themselves out ten times as much. Given my interests, I don't exactly need to be a superstar student. Like I said, I'm in the upper half of my class, and often in the top 10%, I just don't stress about it. If I do well, I do well, if I don't, I don't. I've had an exam or two where I was in the bottom 10%, **** happens. Ultimately I still ended up in the "average" range for my final grade.

I will say that I'll bust my ass for the Steps though. Those are worth dumping a bunch of time into- the stress/benefit ratio is far better than what you're getting for busting your *** to go from a HP to a H in a preclinical class.
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The best way to do well on step 1 is to learn the class material well. Do you honestly think that you're going somehow magically work harder in your dedicated period than every other medical student in the country that has the same exact plan? Coming from a DO school means you need to work that much harder for the same thing as someone from an MD school
 
Psai said:
The best way to do well on step 1 is to learn the class material well. Do you honestly think that you're going somehow magically work harder in your dedicated period than every other medical student in the country that has the same exact plan? Coming from a DO school means you need to work that much harder for the same thing as someone from an MD school
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Our classes aren't very well-matched to what is on the boards, as my school "doesn't just teach us to pass a test." Part of the reason I'm not doing as well as I could be is because I'm studying for the boards instead of studying for my classes, because much of the material in the classes is low-to-zero yield for the Steps. Then again, even with that, I'm still scoring above the median on my tests, so I know the material at least as well as most people.
 
Mad Jack said:
:shrug: Outside of academics (which I completely loathe), how often does where you train actually matter in IM and psych?
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I don't know, not my area. But I do know that I also saw zero appeal in academics when I was a student. Ask anybody in my med school class how much I sang the praises of doing General peds in rural Kansas (spoiler: I don't do that.). Knowing that plans can change, I never encourage my students to settle based on their current likes and dislikes. No need to purposefully close doors when you don't have to.
 
22031 Alum said:
I don't know, not my area. But I do know that I also saw zero appeal in academics when I was a student. Ask anybody in my med school class how much I sang the praises of doing General peds in rural Kansas (spoiler: I don't do that.). Knowing that plans can change, I never encourage my students to settle based on their current likes and dislikes. No need to purposefully close doors when you don't have to.
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That's great advice for most people, and I wouldn't be inclined to disagree. It's just not for me.
 
@Mad Jack To go from a mid 80s to a low 90s in med school, it seems like one has almost to double the amount of study time... Some of the stuff these PhD professors ask are beyond ridiculous...
 
22031 Alum said:
Fair enough. Individual cases differ of course, but here I tend to advise using broad generalities.
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Oh totally. That's the same reason I tell anyone who is having the "DO or MD" question to go MD if at all possible, regardless of how they feel right now. Because they probably won't want to go into primary care, and they might find far more limitations down the line being a DO than they expected. I'm a bit of a different case because of certain limitations, both geographical and physical, that, combined with my aversion to research and teaching, kind of picked my path for me. For most people, these things aren't the case, and I would strongly advise them to work as hard as they can without being completely miserable and to get into the best school they can manage.
W19 said:
@Mad Jack To go from a mid 80s to a low 90s in med school, it seems like one has almost to double the amount of study time... Some of the stuff these PhD professors ask are beyond ridiculous...
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Pretty much. 20% of the questions are minutiae that won't be on the boards, which you'd have to sink an additional 20 hours a week into to master completely, and for what?
 
KeepCalm&DownDog said:
I'm crying lololololol :laugh::laugh::laugh: it's funny because people actually believe this.
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What's bad is they actually teach this **** in nursing school. We would spend a month on "socio-cultural" projects concerning people's social backgrounds and how it affect care. But when they would teach us that ACE inhibitors may cause a cough in some patients and we asked why, no one had a clue and it wasn't important to know why. This type of teaching style continues from bachelors-masters-doctorate. Sadly, growing up in a rural area many people choose to go to "Ms. Jodi" BSN-APRN-FNP-DNP-associate of arts in general studies, etc. because she is "nicer" than the mean MD who is just out for money. It's becomin a big issue in society as people don't know any better. I know this is true, especially in rural areas. Scary.
 
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