NRMP Releases Main Match Result and Data Report

[Aslanim]

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Some interesting trends:
- Emergency Medicine increases spots, but only 70.5% are filled by U.S Seniors, lowest on record.
- Internal Medicine increases spots, but a record low 42.4% are filled by U.S Seniors.
- Table 2 page 8: 484 D.Os matched into Emergency Medicine
- Slight decrease in number of IMG and FMG applicants, but slightly improved match rates.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

 

[nooneyouknow]

Isn't US Seniors recorded as just senior year MD students not including DOs?
DOs are in their own Osteo category it looks like

 

[fldoctorgirl]

"The transition to a single accreditation system has resulted in higher participation among students and graduates of U.S. osteopathic medical schools (DOs). An all-time high 4,617 DO candidates submitted rank order lists of programs, and the 81.7 percent PGY-1 match rate remained the same as in 2017, the highest in history."

DOs are classified separately than US seniors.

Another interesting point (and this is regarding MDs):

• The percentage of all U.S. seniors who matched to their first-choice programs was 48.5 percent, the second lowest on record; however, almost three-quarters (73.3%) of U.S. seniors matched to one of their top three choices.
  

 

[radkat101]

Some interesting trends:
- Emergency Medicine increases spots, but only 70.5% are filled by U.S Seniors, lowest on record.
- Internal Medicine increases spots, but a record low 42.4% are filled by U.S Seniors.
- Table 2 page 8: 484 D.Os matched into Emergency Medicine
- Slight decrease in number of IMG and FMG applicants, but slightly improved match rates.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

Yeah the EM trend isn't too surprising. US seniors is just US MDs. With EM being pretty DO friendly, and a bunch more DO's applying ACGME this year with the merger, the percentage of US MDs went down.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Yeah the EM trend isn't too surprising. US seniors is just US MDs. With EM being pretty DO friendly, and a bunch more DO's applying ACGME this year with the merger, the percentage of US MDs went down.

I think some of the EM midlevel/expansion fear is starting to creep in. People may be thinking its headed the way of Anesthesia.

 

[NurWollen]

Yeah the EM trend isn't too surprising. US seniors is just US MDs. With EM being pretty DO friendly, and a bunch more DO's applying ACGME this year with the merger, the percentage of US MDs went down.

Not to mention a ton of former AOA programs that are probably still accepting mostly DOs

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[Stagg737]

Comparing 2018 to 2017 also confirmed that psych's trend of increasing competitiveness has continued at a slow but steady rate.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Anyone have input on OB? It seems like most spots are filled by MDs, but I'm not sure if that's just because of the proportion of MD to DO applicants combined with many people not being interested in it (tough residency, whatever) or if it's getting more competitive.

 

[deleted407021]

Comparing 2018 to 2017 also confirmed that psych's trend of increasing competitiveness has continued at a slow but steady rate.

Ffffuuuu....

 

[ThreeCheers]

Anyone have input on OB? It seems like most spots are filled by MDs, but I'm not sure if that's just because of the proportion of MD to DO applicants combined with many people not being interested in it (tough residency, whatever) or if it's getting more competitive.

OB has always been moderately competitive. I would probably rank it just under General Surgery in terms of competitiveness. It's not a DO unfriendly field per se, but you generally need to be a decent applicant to get in on the ACGME side (USMLE essentially required, 220+ step, no red flags).

Also, the vast majority of the AOA OB/GYN residencies stayed in the AOA match this year, so I imagine that many DO applicants played it safe and never ended up in the ACGME match.

 

[Mad Jack]

The reason EM expanded so much is because of the addition of former AOA programs into the ACGME match. These programs are obviously very DO friendly, hence the high rate of DOs matching EM. This isn't a reflection that less US MDs are entering EM, but more that former AOA programs are still taking DOs.

 

[Mad Jack]

Comparing 2018 to 2017 also confirmed that psych's trend of increasing competitiveness has continued at a slow but steady rate.

146 US seniors that ranked only psychiatry didn't match, while 916 did. That's a match rate of 86.3% for US seniors for psych, pretty brutal, and represents the lowest match rate of US seniors with only one specialty choice to any specific specialty. For independent applicants, it had the lowest match rate of any non-surgical/interventional field, being beaten only by IR, ortho, neurosurg, plastics, and vascular.

 

[deleted407021]

146 US seniors that ranked only psychiatry didn't match, while 916 did. That's a match rate of 86.3% for US seniors for psych, pretty brutal, and represents the lowest match rate of US seniors with only one specialty choice to any specific specialty. For independent applicants, it had the lowest match rate of any non-surgical/interventional field, being beaten only by IR, ortho, neurosurg, plastics, and vascular.

Do you have an idea of how this rapid change came about? Did we suddenly see a huge jump in applicants to psych?

 

[Mad Jack]

Do you have an idea of how this rapid change came about? Did we suddenly see a huge jump in applicants to psych?

Huge jump in US MD applicants, as well as DOs is what it looks like. Also noticed that psych and combined psych-med programs had four of the five lowest number of interviewees needed per position to fill a program, with only thoracic surgery being more competitive in that regard. So my bet is that programs are over-interviewing (as it used to take almost twice as many applicants per position) which has led to a lot of the crazy stories we're hearing about people interviewing at 10+ places and still not matching.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

4 DO matched into IR, 3 matched into acgme neurosurgery, 5 into acgme ortho (out of 742 positions)

3 DOs made it into rad onc

83 out of 1319 gen surg positions are filled by DOs

Out of 4617 DO applicants, 1142 were elligible for soap. Does this mean nearly 1 in 4 DO applicants didn’t match to their prefered specialty at all?

Anyway, congrats to those who matched!

 

[deleted407021]

Huge jump in US MD applicants, as well as DOs is what it looks like. Also noticed that psych and combined psych-med programs had four of the five lowest number of interviewees needed per position to fill a program, with only thoracic surgery being more competitive in that regard. So my bet is that programs are over-interviewing (as it used to take almost twice as many applicants per position) which has led to a lot of the crazy stories we're hearing about people interviewing at 10+ places and still not matching.

Spooky

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

146 US seniors that ranked only psychiatry didn't match, while 916 did. That's a match rate of 86.3% for US seniors for psych, pretty brutal, and represents the lowest match rate of US seniors with only one specialty choice to any specific specialty. For independent applicants, it had the lowest match rate of any non-surgical/interventional field, being beaten only by IR, ortho, neurosurg, plastics, and vascular.

That's crazy. Hope I like family med

 

[Mad Jack]

4 DO matched into IR, 3 matched into acgme neurosurgery, 5 into acgme ortho (out of 742 positions)

3 DOs made it into rad onc

83 out of 1319 gen surg positions are filled by DOs

Out of 4617 DO applicants, 1142 were elligible for soap. Does this mean nearly 1 in 4 DO applicants didn’t match to their prefered specialty at all?

Anyway, congrats to those who matched!

Yep, that's how the numbers look

 

[radkat101]

4 DO matched into IR, 3 matched into acgme neurosurgery, 5 into acgme ortho (out of 742 positions)

3 DOs made it into rad onc

83 out of 1319 gen surg positions are filled by DOs

Out of 4617 DO applicants, 1142 were elligible for soap. Does this mean nearly 1 in 4 DO applicants didn’t match to their prefered specialty at all?

Anyway, congrats to those who matched!

Yeah, and something that's often overlooked when match lists are being posted on the match thread is how many TRI/Prelim matches there always are. My class this year, which usually has a pretty solid match list had about 17% of the class going into transitional/TRI/prelim spots. If you combine that number with the students who are scrambling into FM and IM, that 25% number sounds about right. BTW, those prelim spots can't be explained by students that require a separate PGY-1 year because there aren't that many students matching into those specialties.

Edit: I'm also confused as to how it's possible that so few DO's matched competitive fields like Ortho and Neurosurgery. Didn't some of the AOA programs just transition to ACGME this year? Did most of those programs just fill with MD students? If so, that is really scary. It basically means going to DO school nearly eliminates any chance of matching these fields.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

4 DO matched into IR, 3 matched into acgme neurosurgery, 5 into acgme ortho (out of 742 positions)

3 DOs made it into rad onc

83 out of 1319 gen surg positions are filled by DOs

Out of 4617 DO applicants, 1142 were elligible for soap. Does this mean nearly 1 in 4 DO applicants didn’t match to their prefered specialty at all?

Anyway, congrats to those who matched!

I think some of that 1142 is due to partial match. Like if they match RADS but don’t get a prelim spit they’d be SOAP eligible

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm also confused as to how it's possible that so few DO's matched competitive fields like Ortho and Neurosurgery. Didn't some of the AOA programs just transition to ACGME this year? Did most of those programs just fill with MD students? If so, that is really scary. It basically means going to DO school nearly eliminates any chance of matching these fields.

Those numbers do not include the AOA match, many of the AOA programs that have received initial accreditation elected to mainly fill in the AOA match. Even then, if you want one of these specialties then you had better look exactly like your MD counterparts on paper if you want a shot.

 

[libertyyne]

Huge jump in US MD applicants, as well as DOs is what it looks like. Also noticed that psych and combined psych-med programs had four of the five lowest number of interviewees needed per position to fill a program, with only thoracic surgery being more competitive in that regard. So my bet is that programs are over-interviewing (as it used to take almost twice as many applicants per position) which has led to a lot of the crazy stories we're hearing about people interviewing at 10+ places and still not matching.

There was only a 50 person increase in the MD pool and the number of positions also went up by that amount.

 

[radkat101]

Those numbers do not include the AOA match, many of the AOA programs that have received initial accreditation elected to mainly fill in the AOA match. Even then, if you want one of these specialties then you had better look exactly like your MD counterparts on paper if you want a shot.

Yeah I guess I need to figure out how many of those programs were participating in the NRMP this year. I know there was quite a few that transitioned in EM. Maybe the really competitive fields are still holding off?

 

[fldoctorgirl]

OB has always been moderately competitive. I would probably rank it just under General Surgery in terms of competitiveness. It's not a DO unfriendly field per se, but you generally need to be a decent applicant to get in on the ACGME side (USMLE essentially required, 220+ step, no red flags).

Also, the vast majority of the AOA OB/GYN residencies stayed in the AOA match this year, so I imagine that many DO applicants played it safe and never ended up in the ACGME match.

Those seem like reasonable requirements....(says I, a lowly incoming MS1). I guess there's not much to do but sit tight and see how things pan out, while trying to be the best applicant possible.

 

[ButterButter]

OB has always been moderately competitive. I would probably rank it just under General Surgery in terms of competitiveness. It's not a DO unfriendly field per se, but you generally need to be a decent applicant to get in on the ACGME side (USMLE essentially required, 220+ step, no red flags).

Also, the vast majority of the AOA OB/GYN residencies stayed in the AOA match this year, so I imagine that many DO applicants played it safe and never ended up in the ACGME match.

OB is not all that competitive. Surgery is way more competitive. According to this year's data, 1,336 OB/GYN positions and 1,879 applicants. For surgery, 1,319 categorical positions and 2,391 applicants. Not to mention that the average surgery applicant has to hustle way more than the average ob/gyn applicant (more research, better stats). Not to say ob/gyn is a cake-walk, but I see it as being way further down than general surgery.

 

[ThreeCheers]

OB is not all that competitive. Surgery is way more competitive. According to this year's data, 1,336 OB/GYN positions and 1,879 applicants. For surgery, 1,319 categorical positions and 2,391 applicants. Not to mention that the average surgery applicant has to hustle way more than the average ob/gyn applicant (more research, better stats). Not to say ob/gyn is a cake-walk, but I see it as being way further down than general surgery.

Hypothetically if you were to rank all specialties in order of competitiveness, what specialties would you say are less competitive than surgery but more competitive than OB? Off the top of my head, the only specialty I can think of that might fit there is maybe rads.

Also applicant: position ratio is a flawed way to measure competitiveness, in my opinion. By your logic, surgery is more competitive than ENT (which has 333 applicants for 315 spots). A lot of competitive surgical subspecialty applicants apply to general surgery as a backup, which adds a bit to the number of applications. I've never heard of anybody ever using OB/GYN as a backup specialty, and I don't see any reason why an applicant would do so.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Most matched specialties for DOs in order: IM, FM, EM, Peds, Psych, Gas, Med-prelim

For MDs: IM, Peds, FM, EM, Med-Prelim, OB, Surgery

 

[W19]

The era of 'you just need a pulse to match into psych' is over... Only path, FM and probably IM fit that mantra.

 

[QueenJames]

Most matched specialties for DOs in order: IM, FM, EM, Peds, Psych, Gas, Med-prelim

For MDs: IM, Peds, FM, EM, Med-Prelim, OB, Surgery

Literally wtf I have been saying ever since stupid pre-med days.

Whether you are MD or DO... you will MOST LIKELY... and MOST OF THE TIME... enter the SAME FIELDS (minus the surgery).

Thank you.

 

[W19]

Literally wtf I have been saying ever since stupid pre-med days.

Whether you are MD or DO... you will MOST LIKELY... and MOST OF THE TIME... enter the SAME FIELDS (minus the surgery).

Thank you.

True for the most part, but a good # of IM from US MD will do a fellowship...

 

[Stagg737]

4 DO matched into IR, 3 matched into acgme neurosurgery, 5 into acgme ortho (out of 742 positions)

3 DOs made it into rad onc

83 out of 1319 gen surg positions are filled by DOs

Out of 4617 DO applicants, 1142 were elligible for soap. Does this mean nearly 1 in 4 DO applicants didn’t match to their prefered specialty at all?

Anyway, congrats to those who matched!

See, I'm confused about the bolded because in the initial match by the numbers report it said that 79% of independent applicants matched into one of their top 3 choices. So I don't know how to account for a lot of the differences between the two reports. Report I'm talking about: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2018-Match-by-the-Numbers.pdf

Edit: I'm also confused as to how it's possible that so few DO's matched competitive fields like Ortho and Neurosurgery. Didn't some of the AOA programs just transition to ACGME this year? Did most of those programs just fill with MD students? If so, that is really scary. It basically means going to DO school nearly eliminates any chance of matching these fields.

Yeah I guess I need to figure out how many of those programs were participating in the NRMP this year. I know there was quite a few that transitioned in EM. Maybe the really competitive fields are still holding off?

Actually almost none of the programs in competitive fields have transferred over yet. In the 2016 AOA match there were 40 ortho programs, 13 ENT, and 7 neurosurg. This year ortho and ENT were the same and there were 5 neurosurg programs in the AOA match which haven't transitioned to ACGME yet. So for the really competitive fields this year was no different than the past. We'll have to wait another year or two in order to find out the impact the merger will have on DOs hoping to enter those fields, but I suspect it won't be positive.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

See, I'm confused about the bolded because in the initial match by the numbers report it said that 79% of independent applicants matched into one of their top 3 choices. So I don't know how to account for a lot of the differences between the two reports. Report I'm talking about: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2018-Match-by-the-Numbers.pdf
.

Independents include both FMGs and DOs I imagine.

Also just because you are elligible for soap, doesn’t mean you didn’t match. You still matched a one year spot and you can see a bunch of those in DO school match lists.

It just means they didn’t match their advanced spot like radiology or anesthesia.

 

[DNC127]

Yep, that's how the numbers look

and the AOA / COCA insist on adding more DO schools.... blah. IMO moral to the story for the pre-meds lurking is that if you want anything other than FM, and the MCAT is the only thing holding you back from being competitive for MD schools, take a year off and do Altius or some high performing test prep and give yourself the best shot at MD schools. Don't make the mistake a lot of us did and get impatient or too prideful to say you have to re-apply.

 

[DNC127]

The statistic we need is how many of the DO's that didn't match failed to take USMLE, compared to those that matched. My bet is that it would be telling.

 

[ButterButter]

Hypothetically if you were to rank all specialties in order of competitiveness, what specialties would you say are less competitive than surgery but more competitive than OB? Off the top of my head, the only specialty I can think of that might fit there is maybe rads.

I'd say rads, anesthesia and EM are less competitive than general surgery but more competitive than OB. Psych is less competitive than OB but maybe not for long. That's the one that will pop up from the lower tier first, if at all. Not saying OB is down there with FM, and I do agree that it's moderately competitive, but I just don't think it's a sliver below GS like I read your original post to mean.

 

[Stagg737]

Independents include both FMGs and DOs I imagine.

Also just because you are elligible for soap, doesn’t mean you didn’t match. You still matched a one year spot and you can see a bunch of those in DO school match lists.

It just means they didn’t match their advanced spot like radiology or anesthesia.

Right, but according to the report the overall rate for matched individuals landing one of their top 3 choices was 78.2% while the independent rate was 79.2%. Which I can understand since USMDs likely shoot for the more competitive fields and bring that down. Plus, this all just looks at the ACGME data. There were over 6,000 DO applicants this year, but many matched in the AOA match. Idk what the true stats are, but you'd have to take a much deeper dive than just looking at SOAP eligibility and one match to figure those numbers out.

I'm still waiting for the new CTOs, which should be a lot more telling than the rest of the reports that have come out so far.

 

[ButterButter]

and the AOA / COCA insist on adding more DO schools.... blah. IMO moral to the story for the pre-meds lurking is that if you want anything other than FM, and the MCAT is the only thing holding you back from being competitive for MD schools, take a year off and do Altius or some high performing test prep and give yourself the best shot at MD schools. Don't make the mistake a lot of us did and get impatient or too prideful to say you have to re-apply.

I think that may be a little strong. DO applicants can reasonably match IM, EM, FM, psych, OB, anesthesia, & rads, but you just have to study and do well on boards. My school had plenty of great matches but those students had good stats, were top two quartiles, had research and positioned themselves to match well. In short, they were competitive with their MD counterparts, and that's what PDs want.

 

[DNC127]

I think that may be a little strong. DO applicants can reasonably match IM, EM, FM, psych, OB, anesthesia, & rads, but you just have to study and do well on boards. My school had plenty of great matches but those students had good stats, were top two quartiles, had research and positioned themselves to match well. In short, they were competitive with their MD counterparts, and that's what PDs want.

right I agree, however it would be much simpler to obtain those residencies as an MD. So to lose a year of your life in order to ensure you have the best opportunity for success in the future seems like a small price to pay. I wish I would have payed that price up front looking back, so I am just trying to help those that may be on the fence about it.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

So to lose a year of your life in order to ensure you have the best opportunity for success in the future seems like a small price to pay

The point you made earlier, though, is really important to this statement: how many of the DOs who failed to match this year in the ACGME match took Step 1? I'd venture a guess that not many of them did, because most people in the class of '18 saw no reason to take Step. Hell, even now a lot of people still think it's not necessary, and DO schools are still pushing the mantra that it's a waste of time. Unless we can see data about who did/did not have a Step score, and what that score was, it's hard to make statements like this.

I've said this multiple times on SDN, but I think this is just a highly individualized thing that is hard to make a blanket statement on. I'm one of those people whose MCAT was the only thing holding them back from MD schools (scored over 505 but below 510, had c/sGPAs over 3.8) and even after seeing the match stats for this year, I still wouldn't want to take another year off to try and go MD. It's just such a personal decision, honestly. I think most people know what they are doing when they choose to go DO. For some, it's not enough to warrant still trying to pursue MD.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I've said this multiple times on SDN, but I think this is just a highly individualized thing that is hard to make a blanket statement on. I'm one of those people whose MCAT was the only thing holding them back from MD schools (scored over 505 but below 510, had c/sGPAs over 3.8) and even after seeing the match stats for this year, I still wouldn't want to take another year off to try and go MD. It's just such a personal decision, honestly. I think most people know what they are doing when they choose to go DO. For some, it's not enough to warrant still trying to pursue MD.

I do agree with this, you have to take I to account that most of the people on here that say this really have no interest in FM. If you are looking at anything outside of outpatient primary care medicine then the best thing to do is to better the app for MD. I personally am confident in my ability to get into the field I want but it is more than a little irritating that MDs can basically waltz into the field while I have to bust my butt every single day.

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

The point you made earlier, though, is really important to this statement: how many of the DOs who failed to match this year in the ACGME match took Step 1? I'd venture a guess that not many of them did, because most people in the class of '18 saw no reason to take Step. Hell, even now a lot of people still think it's not necessary, and DO schools are still pushing the mantra that it's a waste of time. Unless we can see data about who did/did not have a Step score, and what that score was, it's hard to make statements like this.

I've said this multiple times on SDN, but I think this is just a highly individualized thing that is hard to make a blanket statement on. I'm one of those people whose MCAT was the only thing holding them back from MD schools (scored over 505 but below 510, had c/sGPAs over 3.8) and even after seeing the match stats for this year, I still wouldn't want to take another year off to try and go MD. It's just such a personal decision, honestly. I think most people know what they are doing when they choose to go DO. For some, it's not enough to warrant still trying to pursue MD.

This SDN "advice" that every DO OMS-II should take Step 1 is crap and really poor advice. You haven't started medical school yet so I don't expect you to be an expert on these issues but there are multiple factors and multiple angles that should go into play when/if an OMS-II decides to take Step 1 (and/or Step 2). "If you're an OMS-II, you must take Step 1" is not a "one size fits all" model. Nationally, only ~50-55% of DO students take Step 1. There is a reason for that. You will find out in 1.5 years.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I do agree with this, you have to take I to account that most of the people on here that say this really have no interest in FM. If you are looking at anything outside of outpatient primary care medicine then the best thing to do is to better the app for MD. I personally am confident in my ability to get into the field I want but it is more than a little irritating that MDs can basically waltz into the field while I have to bust my butt every single day.

I agree with you that it's irritating and unfair. I just think it's hard to objectively state that pursuing the MD is the best thing to do considering it's such a personal decision. In a perfect world, maybe.

This SDN "advice" that every DO OMS-II should take Step 1 is crap and really poor advice. You haven't started medical school yet so I don't expect you to be an expert on these issues but there are multiple factors and multiple angles that should go into play when/if an OMS-II decides to take Step 1 (and/or Step 2). "If you're an OMS-II, you must take Step 1" is not a "one size fits all" model. Nationally, only ~50-55% of DO students take Step 1. There is a reason for that. You will find out in 1.5 years.

I won't argue your points because like you said, I honestly have no idea and won't pretend to know. But, I think if you're gunning for a moderately competitive-competitive field as a DO student, you should take Step. That's just a personal opinion though, not something I'm trying to preach to people.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I just think it's hard to objectively state that pursuing the MD is the best thing to do considering it's such a personal decision

It’s not just the residency thing. Our governing body is completely selling us out by continually opening garbage schools everywhere and they really don’t care about DO students. They have their agenda and they are going to push it at your expense.

 

[DNC127]

The point you made earlier, though, is really important to this statement: how many of the DOs who failed to match this year in the ACGME match took Step 1? I'd venture a guess that not many of them did, because most people in the class of '18 saw no reason to take Step. Hell, even now a lot of people still think it's not necessary, and DO schools are still pushing the mantra that it's a waste of time. Unless we can see data about who did/did not have a Step score, and what that score was, it's hard to make statements like this.

I've said this multiple times on SDN, but I think this is just a highly individualized thing that is hard to make a blanket statement on. I'm one of those people whose MCAT was the only thing holding them back from MD schools (scored over 505 but below 510, had c/sGPAs over 3.8) and even after seeing the match stats for this year, I still wouldn't want to take another year off to try and go MD. It's just such a personal decision, honestly. I think most people know what they are doing when they choose to go DO. For some, it's not enough to warrant still trying to pursue MD.

My advice to you would have been to take some time to get the MCAT right. I had similar stats (3.9x, 3.9x, 506) and got impatient, and applied DO late after not getting accepted at my MD interviews. However, this merger has me scared as balls about how the future will play out. Example: I want a surgical subspecialty, and my research (15+ pubs in top journals in the field and others), combined with good board scores, would give me a pretty sure shot at the specialty. However, as a DO if our home program gets shut down, and more AOA programs dont get accredited my shot at the specialty plummets to an uneasy percentage. I would likely have to take a research year to try and get some letters from MD faculty that could make calls. I would have rather spent a year studying the MCAT again and using my work ethic at a MD school rather than DO. If I did I would be more worried about where I got a spot rather than if I was going to get a spot. I thought I knew what I was doing, but didn't quite realize the gravity of the whole merger situation. Advice for premeds: Dont be like me lol.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Right, but according to the report the overall rate for matched individuals landing one of their top 3 choices was 78.2% while the independent rate was 79.2%. Which I can understand since USMDs likely shoot for the more competitive fields and bring that down. Plus, this all just looks at the ACGME data. There were over 6,000 DO applicants this year, but many matched in the AOA match. Idk what the true stats are, but you'd have to take a much deeper dive than just looking at SOAP eligibility and one match to figure those numbers out.

I'm still waiting for the new CTOs, which should be a lot more telling than the rest of the reports that have come out so far.

The numbers in the ACGME elligible to soap section is the true data. Those are the people who met the requirement to soap, which means they did not withdraw from the match. Folks who matched AOA would have withdrew from the match and become not elligible.

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

My advice to you would have been to take some time to get the MCAT right. I had similar stats (3.9x, 3.9x, 506) and got impatient, and applied DO late after not getting accepted at my MD interviews. However, this merger has me scared as balls about how the future will play out. Example: I want a surgical subspecialty, and my research (15+ pubs in top journals in the field and others), combined with good board scores, would give me a pretty sure shot at the specialty. However, as a DO if our home program gets shut down, and more AOA programs dont get accredited my shot at the specialty plummets to an uneasy percentage. I would likely have to take a research year to try and get some letters from MD faculty that could make calls. I would have rather spent a year studying the MCAT again and using my work ethic at a MD school rather than DO. If I did I would be more worried about where I got a spot rather than if I was going to get a spot. I thought I knew what I was doing, but didn't quite realize the gravity of the whole merger situation. Advice for premeds: Dont be like me lol.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I was young, had poor guidance, and really wanted to leave the state so I rushed the MCAT and went DO. Now, as an OMS-III who is soon to start his OMS-IV year, in hindsight I made many mistakes, one of them being not taking the MD application cycle more seriously and retaking the MCAT. My April rotation was inpatient Psych where I rotated with another med student from the local MD state school. His Step 1 was a 238 and he wants to go into ENT. He has 4 pubs in the field, all from his home program. He is pretty confident that he will get a spot at his home program, which takes 3 students, traditionally from the school. Meanwhile, I have a 250+ step 1 and multiple pubs and I have serious doubts that I'll get enough interviews for the field I am interested in and am in the process for setting up a research year in case I don't match. I think many people on SDN get fixated on the dozen or so stellar matches every year but don't see the big picture that the bias is still very real and the competition is getting really, really bad, in both primary care (in terms of location preference) and specialty medicine.

 

[radkat101]

Actually almost none of the programs in competitive fields have transferred over yet. In the 2016 AOA match there were 40 ortho programs, 13 ENT, and 7 neurosurg. This year ortho and ENT were the same and there were 5 neurosurg programs in the AOA match which haven't transitioned to ACGME yet. So for the really competitive fields this year was no different than the past. We'll have to wait another year or two in order to find out the impact the merger will have on DOs hoping to enter those fields, but I suspect it won't be positive.

Thanks. I did a little digging and you're right. It'll be interesting to see which direction these programs go when the merger is all said and done. Anecdotally, the old AOA programs (IM and EM) near me took more MD than DO in their first class as ACGME programs this year. A bunch of them were IMG too so I hope this doesn't become the norm.

 

[IsWhat]

It’s not just the residency thing. Our governing body is completely selling us out by continually opening garbage schools everywhere and they really don’t care about DO students. They have their agenda and they are going to push it at your expense.

My wife works at a large University medical center and she heard her attendings talk about major changes coming to the match process. DO leadership knows increasing DO student enrollment alone isn’t going to mean anything if residency spots aren’t available to their students, which makes me wonder if they are privy to something like a tier match system coming down the pike - where US grads match first and then foreign grads match into whatever is left over. It’s literally the only logical reason to expand DO seats right now, and explains why so few seen to be worried about it.

Or it’s for more nefarious reasons - like money. Time will tell.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

@JamesPotterMS-3 @DNC127 I respect both of your inputs and recognize that you know more than me lol, so I bow out of this conversation; thank you for sharing your stories! I hope you end up matching where you want when the time comes and we can laugh about this discussion.

 

[radkat101]

My advice to you would have been to take some time to get the MCAT right. I had similar stats (3.9x, 3.9x, 506) and got impatient, and applied DO late after not getting accepted at my MD interviews. However, this merger has me scared as balls about how the future will play out. Example: I want a surgical subspecialty, and my research (15+ pubs in top journals in the field and others), combined with good board scores, would give me a pretty sure shot at the specialty. However, as a DO if our home program gets shut down, and more AOA programs dont get accredited my shot at the specialty plummets to an uneasy percentage. I would likely have to take a research year to try and get some letters from MD faculty that could make calls. I would have rather spent a year studying the MCAT again and using my work ethic at a MD school rather than DO. If I did I would be more worried about where I got a spot rather than if I was going to get a spot. I thought I knew what I was doing, but didn't quite realize the gravity of the whole merger situation. Advice for premeds: Dont be like me lol.

So true. Having just gone through the match, the stress of not knowing whether I was going to get a spot next year was intense enough to make me wish I had waited an extra year to go to MD school. For certain specialties, the downsides of being a DO applicant really hits hard when interview season rolls around. I became obsessed with the stats and it ruined half of my 4th year. I'm 100% confident that this experience would have been different if I had cleaned up my app to try for MD.