Number of away rotations?

[chewibocca]

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I'm currently an MS3 and I'm starting to think about away rotations. How many aways do you think are optimal? Also, do you think it's better to do aways early (June-July-August) vs later (Sept-Oct-Nov)? My adviser told me to choose aways based on resources (i.e if I have someone to stay with, etc.) but that still leaves me with with half a dozen choices on the East Coast and the same number in the Midwest. I'm utterly confused as to which programs to do aways with.

Thanks!

 

[dermie09]

I did one away and it was specifically targeted. In my opinion ppl waste aways by doing them at big name institutions where a zillions other students are trying to impress. I was told to target 2nd tier programs that are still solid programs but perhaps undervalued... Or in a location that isn't super popular. You can make a much bigger impact there and have a higher chance of getting an "in".

 

[sensitive skin]

Home rotation, a "reach" program (depending on your stats and resources), and one "backup" where it's easy to stand out positively.

Or, if you're not a strong candidate, rotate at two smaller programs (not necessarily "backup," just fewer people) so you can be known intimately and receive strong, detailed letters from PD or chair, which are better than lukewarm copy-and-paste letters from big shot chairs.

HTH!

 

[chewibocca]

Hm, how do I know which programs are undervalued? Also, it seems like doing 2 aways is optimal, but would it hurt if I did 3 or more? I want to maximize my chances of getting an interview, but at the same time, I don't want to spend my entire fourth year just doing aways.

 

[Mariah246]

I only did 1. I was told too many is harmful.

 

[cancerman51]

I did one and i feel it hurt me more than it helped me.

 

[goodies]

i did multiple aways and i think it ended up being too many.

by my last one, i was so burnt out that i just didn't care anymore. i know you're thinking how hard can a derm away rotation really be, right? but trust me, by your fourth month of derm, you will be sick of impressing, sick of being on your top notch behavior, you'll end up looking just 'average'... and you will want it to just be over! end result is you will end up hurting your chances at that program and wasting a precious $1000 (gets to be a pretty penny!) at a program that will REJECT your ***** because you sucked!

bottom line is... if you don't plan on being on your absolute best behavior, don't go.

 

[chewibocca]

Wow, thanks guys for replying. I think I'll aim for at least 1 away, but 2 if it works out with scheduling and finances.

 

[sensitive skin]

Perhaps I should have been more clear.

To avoid burnout like goodies, it's okay to have two week rotations peppered in with other rotations, instead of month-long derm rotations. I would suggest a month-long rotation at your home school though, or the school with the most well-known chair (from your choices). Two weeks is MORE than enough.

More than one month-long derm rotation is more hurtful than a few short ones, imho. Even if you don't get a letter, at least you have given programs a reason to believe you'd move to the west coast even if you live in NYC and your entire supportive network is in NYC (for example).

 

[Cheebs09]

I did one away at a "top" institution, and it was a valuable experience. I saw many differences from my home program, and it gave me a good perspective for what I want in a residency program.

I did not ask the PD for a letter, or any away faculty for that matter, because I only spent 1 month away and they didn't know me as well as my home department faculty.

 

[chewibocca]

Oh, I didn't realize that it was even possible to do 2-week rotations. Do you specifically request a 2-week time span then? I know that most schools make you rotate according to their 4-week clerkship schedules.

 

[sensitive skin]

Oh, I didn't realize that it was even possible to do 2-week rotations. Do you specifically request a 2-week time span then? I know that most schools make you rotate according to their 4-week clerkship schedules.

You can rotate however you like as long as you ask politely. I used the "8-week limit to one specialty" excuse to ask for a 2-week rotation. Make friends withe secretary/coordinator and have her "pencil you in." The chair and PD will be too busy to deal with rotators.

 

[N-Surge]

Get a letter from each away if possible, imo. There may come a day where those interviewing you ask why you didn't. I could be wrong. But I know that at least in Neurosurgery this sounds to be the case. I can't think of Dermatology being any less competitive. However, I must say the interviews were relatively relaxed and fun!

I guess I am saying just to be safe, be prepared.

 

[Mariah246]

I was told 2 week rotations are useless. Highly frowned upon at my home institution and the place where I did an away. (I agree 2 wks really is more than enough for them to know you and you to know them but hey, I don't make the rules sadly)

 

[goodies]

i think 4 weeks are necessary to make a solid and lasting impression. you need 4 weeks if you wanna try to get a letter.

2 weeks are good if you just wanna check out the program/area. no one will want to write you a good letter if they barely know you...

 

[sensitive skin]

2 weeks are good if you just wanna check out the program/area. no one will want to write you a good letter if they barely know you...

True. Unless you are a super SUPER star applicant, this is probably the best way to get a few interviews in an area you have no ties to, and this has worked for quite a few residents I know.

Also, do not request a letter after a 2-week rotation. I did not mean to imply this. I suggested a 2-week rotation to increase your chances of garnering interviews.

 

[Derm1210]

I did 3 aways, 1 at a well-known program where I was jostling for clinic time with multiple other rotators and 2 at other programs. I didn't even get an interview at the hotshot program but was interviewed by both of the others. One of PDs for the lesser-known programs told me he always interviews rotators, out of courtesy for the fact that they spent a month with the program. That being said, there are many programs that are known to automatically interview or rank without an interview any student that has rotated (and some may include an informal "interview" with several faculty before you complete your rotation, so you don't have to go back out to interview).

Make sure to research the programs you are looking at for aways to find out these kinds of things before you potentially waste your time.

 

[wonderboy00]

One of PDs for the lesser-known programs told me he always interviews rotators, out of courtesy for the fact that they spent a month with the program.

Wow, which program?