Nurse Practitioners (DNP) the new DO?

[clamsauce]

Will add in she also said there is no psychiatrist there but one on the phone like 100 miles away.

Getting trained by other fnps who have their psych cert. wait no they don't either.

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[DPTinthemaking15]

I know, there is a lot of inconsistency in nursing. It really bothers me too. However, I think most NPs will choose to stay in a team based setting and serve as an adjunct or extender. The one's that are practicing independently I believe are highly experienced, and know their limitations.

This. For all we know, there could be a ticked-off nursing student that never "made the cut" for medical school. They are now gunning for independent rights and 'Don't need no overhead, cause they are a strong, independent, man/woman' For instance, I worked with PT's, PTA's, AT's for years. They were some of the smartest and brightest people I have ever met, but I would never trust some of the PTA's or AT's to treat me independently. There were many times they would question themselves and ask the PT, who, knew the answer 90% of the time. Other times, I would watch them pull the old "fake it till they make it" trick. Which, in physical therapy isn't that bad, because if Ol' Glenda is doing seated leg extensions, instead of lying leg extensions, everything is going to be okay. Yet, in the case of NP, that isn't the case. If I heard of a clinic being ran by a PTA only, I would avoid it at all cost. Not because I don't trust them, but they don't have the experience that the PT has. This is how I view the MD vs. NP case.

Also, someone (I'm not sure who) stated earlier: The general public *normally* cannot distinguish between who is a physician and who is not. Don't believe me? I was scrolling through Youtube the other day and ran across a chiropractor that listed his name as Dr. McBackPopper and listed nothing else after his name. Apparently the comment section was discussing how "hot" this chiropractor was and talking about how great of a Doctor he was. After reading a few comments, they were convinced he had attended medical school and chose chiropractor as his specialty. I assume this isn't the only time it has ever happened. Heck, I come from a family that never attended college. If they see Dr. in front of someone's name, they take it for what its worth. Oh well... It is just my opinion and everyone has one.

 

[FNP_Blix]

I don't know guys, this conversation is pretty useless. Basically just see what happens in a few years and if NPs flounder, then oh well lol...but you think that I would have a good shot as an NP applying for Harvard premed (online pre-reqs)? Do they take that into consideration if you have strong medical background?

 

[clamsauce]

This. For all we know, there could be a ticked-off nursing student that never "made the cut" for medical school. They are now gunning for independent rights and 'Don't need no overhead, cause they are a strong, independent, man/woman' For instance, I worked with PT's, PTA's, AT's for years. They were some of the smartest and brightest people I have ever met, but I would never trust some of the PTA's or AT's to treat me independently. There were many times they would question themselves and ask the PT, who, knew the answer 90% of the time. Other times, I would watch them pull the old "fake it till they make it" trick. Which, in physical therapy isn't that bad, because if Ol' Glenda is doing seated leg extensions, instead of lying leg extensions, everything is going to be okay. Yet, in the case of NP, that isn't the case. If I heard of a clinic being ran by a PTA only, I would avoid it at all cost. Not because I don't trust them, but they don't have the experience that the PT has. This is how I view the MD vs. NP case.

Also, someone (I'm not sure who) stated earlier: The general public *normally* cannot distinguish between who is a physician and who is not. Don't believe me? I was scrolling through Youtube the other day and ran across a chiropractor that listed his name as Dr. McBackPopper and listed nothing else after his name. Apparently the comment section was discussing how "hot" this chiropractor was and talking about how great of a Doctor he was. After reading a few comments, they were convinced he had attended medical school and chose chiropractor as his specialty. I assume this isn't the only time it has ever happened. Heck, I come from a family that never attended college. If they see Dr. in front of someone's name, they take it for what its worth. Oh well... It is just my opinion and everyone has one.

Out of every profession nursing is the only one making an attack on one that makes more bucks I can think of. Pharmacists don't, dentists don't, RTs don't, etc.

Sort of like if I said computer science major = software engineer. Hell since I was a CS major maybe I should lmfao. I mean my title has computer in it so I must be just as good. (We had a few ppl in my group who were excellent coders FYI but I was not one of them).

If the job says software engineer CS won't cut it and same goes for doctors and nurses.

 

[FNP_Blix]

No, but the "NP studies" are so bad they don't even compare.



Yes there is lots of biased, problematic research and they do get shred to pieces on a consistent basis.



That's not how this works at all, and you not understanding that is a big problem. Medical doctors are the gold standard for healthcare, and anyone (i.e. NPs) who wants to claim that their skills or comparable is the one who carries the burden of proof. And no I'm not talking about studies where the NPs are managing grandma and her HTN meds and the docs are doing that and also seeing an additional 15 patients with more comorbidities. To show equal competence you need to take the NPs and give them the same acuity patients as physicians in the same time frame and see the outcomes of each. This kind of study will never happen because it is unethical due to NPs lacking the skills to handle those types of patients and patients would suffer.



See above.



No there isn't, all there is are a bunch of shoddy studies done by nursing lobbyists or even the nurse groups themselves with terrible n values and high school level study designs. Also appealing to a bunch of lobbyists and politicians who only care about the bottom line isn't the best appeal to authority and does nothing to prove your point.



Lol no. What outcomes measured are "significant"? Your going to need to cite some sources to show NPs performing better and I don't want to see a study comparing patient satisfaction surveys.

I'm about to go out with my wife, so I will reply a little later with some studies and my rationale for my position. Either way, don't think that will change your mind, but I'll entertain this.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

this conversation is pretty useless.

Yes it is. You have no basis for your argument other than a few crappy studies, and your feels that the ones practicing independently are "highly experienced."

 

[clamsauce]

So like we should be able to practice without residency then since pretty sure we pass1000 hours in like our third rotation. AMIRITE

 

[Psai]

I don't know guys, this conversation is pretty useless. Basically just see what happens in a few years and if NPs flounder, then oh well lol...but you think that I would have a good shot as an NP applying for Harvard premed (online pre-reqs)? Do they take that into consideration if you have strong medical background?

They flounder every day. I hear stupid things from NPs all the time that a college student would be embarrassed about. The crappiest admissions from the ED come from NPs. It's really annoying to have a family mad at you because of a dumb mistake some unsuspecting np made and you're the guy dealing with the consequences.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

Out of every profession nursing is the only one making an attack on one that makes more bucks I can think of. Pharmacists don't, dentists don't, RTs don't, etc.

Sort of like if I said computer science major = software engineer. Hell since I was a CS major maybe I should lmfao. I mean my title has computer in it so I must be just as good. (We had a few ppl in my group who were excellent coders FYI but I was not one of them).

If the job says software engineer CS won't cut it and same goes for doctors and nurses.

Haha two of my best friends are CS majors and are bangin' coders (so says their co-workers), but they despise coding with everything in them. They are currently working on two random projects that don't involve coding and love it lol. But that is very true. All of the PTA's I worked with were happy at the end of the day with little to no paperwork. Heck, they told me on multiple occasions that becoming a PT wasn't worth it because of the paperwork hassle.

I understand nurses learn a lot during their time in school and have a breadth of clinical experience, but life tends to kick you in the keister when you don't know something. Like, if I don't have an understanding of something, you better believe I want someone there to double check my work and make sure I didn't fudge the bucket. There is no telling what is to come in the following years, but as my grandpa says "If you're gonna be stupid, ya better be tough." So if this is the path you are willing to take, good luck.

Edit: To lighten the mood. I hope everyone tends to see "It" this weekend or tonight. It is going to be a good one.

 

[jthedestroyr]

if you think crna should be independent, youre smoking crack. youve obviously never been in an anesthesia emergency (ob crashing pt fat, AAA crashing, etc) because i have, and ive yet to see a nurse that could independently handle that on their own. ive had attendings near lose their $h7t in some of those intense cases.

fact is anesthesia is completely safe until its not then its too late. we have made it so safe, that it appears benign, but my friend its not. All medicine is like this, fortunately for outpatient its not normally like this, so midlevels can skate by.

are there some excellent crna and terrible anesthesiologist, yes, but at the end of the day one is still a nurse and one is still a doctor. if you cant appreciate how critical this is, i dont know what to tell you.

anesthesia is an extension of the icu, some how crna never got this memo because we allowed them to place some lines and do a few more things.

 

[gutonc]

Closing for cross-posting. See similar thread in Topics in Healthcare if you're so inclined.