Nurse Practitioners moving into pharmacy areas

[statepharmagent]

Has anyone else notice the increase in NPs moving into traditional pharmacy areas like anticoag, diabetes clinics etc? My hospital has exponentially increased hiring for NPs in all kinds of specialties that used to be run by mainly clinical pharmacists. Now the NPs are hired instead of additional RPhs in the anticoag, diabetes clinics at my hospital. Also other areas where we used to hire clin pharmacists like internal med and critical care have been mostly filled with a bunch of NPs while our pharmacy has not added anyone in the past 2 years.

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[radio frequency]

That’s not that surprising. They’re cheaper to make, don’t need four years of schooling or a residency, and can prescribe. They’re cheaper to hire, too. Doesn’t mean they are as good, but incremental differences that you can’t prove with cost savings are hard to justify.

 

[Lnsean]

Has anyone else notice the increase in NPs moving into traditional pharmacy areas like anticoag, diabetes clinics etc? My hospital has exponentially increased hiring for NPs in all kinds of specialties that used to be run by mainly clinical pharmacists. Now the NPs are hired instead of additional RPhs in the anticoag, diabetes clinics at my hospital. Also other areas where we used to hire clin pharmacists like internal med and critical care have been mostly filled with a bunch of NPs while our pharmacy has not added anyone in the past 2 years.

this is the future

 

[VA77]

They are cheaper, have prescribing rights, and a stronger lobby. Meanwhile Lucinda Maine plays the fiddle in Alexandria

 

[PAtoPharm]

This is something that's been happening at one of the local hospital systems in my area. As the DOP at one of the hospitals in their network explained to me, it basically comes down to the fact that NPs/PAs can bill insurance companies and receive reimbursement for providing clinical services whereas pharmacists can't, so even if pharmacists may be more qualified in terms of education/training to provide these services, most hospitals simply can't justify paying pharmacists to provide these services when they're not even "earning their keep" to cover the costs of their own salaries in the first place (especially hospitals in areas like mine where the payer mix demographics really suck - 88-92% Medicare/Medicaid/indigent).

 

[croquemonsieur]

While NPs are not cheaper than rphs (on the west coast at least), they are able to practice/prescribe independently and can bill for their time and services ($$$). A pharmacist's time is worthless and they require supervision. It's a no brainer.

 

[njac]

While NPs are not cheaper than rphs (on the west coast at least), they are able to practice/prescribe independently and can bill for their time and services ($$$). A pharmacist's time is worthless and they require supervision. It's a no brainer.

Depends - here in SoCal I have RN friends who make less as NPs than they did as RNs working over time. It’s been a significant enough paycut that some have gone back to working as an hourly RN and left their NP jobs.

But staff RNs make more in CA than anywhere else in the country at baseline.


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[MatCauthon]

This makes 100% sense. Pharmacy is an extremely limited field in terms of diagnosis, prescribing, and billing. The expansion of NPs and PAs is going to hurt the field of clinical pharmacy quite a bit-- especially ambulatory care.

 

[BelowTheMean]

My friend's place NPs have taken over doing the med reconciliations, med counseling, discharge, etc. Pharmacy will be reduced to basic function of hospital staffing and retail sooner or later. At this rate sooner.

 

[PAtoPharm]

My friend's place NPs have taken over doing the med reconciliations, med counseling, discharge, etc. Pharmacy will be reduced to basic function of hospital staffing and retail sooner or later. At this rate sooner.

The DOP I know locally told me that until the 1970s (maybe it was the 1960s), most of the job functions that pharmacists do in the hospital setting were done by RNs who referred to themselves as "compounding nurses." Maybe there's a chance that hospitals will push for law changes so that they can go back to hiring RNs to take over the dispensing duties of pharmacists

 

[BidingMyTime]

The DOP I know locally told me that until the 1970s (maybe it was the 1960s), most of the job functions that pharmacists do in the hospital setting were done by RNs who referred to themselves as "compounding nurses." Maybe there's a chance that hospitals will push for law changes so that they can go back to hiring RNs to take over the dispensing duties of pharmacists

Interesting, I had never heard this, this was before my time. I'd always assumed that pharmacists have always worked in hospitals. I'll have to see if I can find out the history of my hospital, although there is no one in the pharmacy that goes back that far.

 

[Rouelle]

In all fairness, it could be argued that pharmacist-run ambulatory care clinics are not widespread enough to be considered “traditional pharmacy areas.”

(Disclaimer: yes, I do support pharmacist-run am care clinics and think pharmacists should be better at managing these meds than other providers)

 

[Gombrich12]

Growth In Nurse Practitioner Graduates, 2001–2014​

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[njac]

Growth In Nurse Practitioner Graduates, 2001–2014​

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Half the new grad RNs I know intend to go to NP school. Almost no one wants to stay a bedside RN more than 5 years.

Shoot, they have straight through RN-NP programs now where you can graduate with an NP having never worked as an RN. I feel like their bubble will burst too. Think of the quality they’re graduating. 10-15 years ago the benefit of an NP vs a PA was the background 5+ years they had as an experienced RN before going to NP school. They’ve given that up...


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[BenJammin]

NPs generally speaking are cheaper to do these things. My side company does this for standalone nursing homes but I pay pharmacists to do it at half the going rate.

Has anyone else notice the increase in NPs moving into traditional pharmacy areas like anticoag, diabetes clinics etc? My hospital has exponentially increased hiring for NPs in all kinds of specialties that used to be run by mainly clinical pharmacists. Now the NPs are hired instead of additional RPhs in the anticoag, diabetes clinics at my hospital. Also other areas where we used to hire clin pharmacists like internal med and critical care have been mostly filled with a bunch of NPs while our pharmacy has not added anyone in the past 2 years.

Those aren't traditional pharmacy areas lol

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

NPs are basically the same cost for my institution but have the benefit of billing for services rendered. I do not see them expanding our amb Care program, leadership will argue for more NPs and have the single amb Care pharmacist for education and consult of NPs.

My interns all love my job but I do not see it as a growing field. Most of the institutions in my metro area are tightening their belts...

 

[Saiyo]

It's terrifying to me that you can become an NP with no bedside RN experience and classes online. Honestly 2-3 years experience min ahouos be mandatory for NP

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I think this should be mandatory as well. Credentials without experience is worthless- Imagine working with a NP that doesn't know how to push meds...ewwww. but I'm sure they will get some clinical pharmacist to shepherd the crappy NPs around.