Nurses performing abortions(potentially)

[Man o War]

---

Members don't see this ad.

With Roe in doubt, states weigh letting nurses do abortions

As new abortion restrictions are imposed in some parts of the U.S., states with more liberal leadership have been passing laws to let a wider range of medical providers to do the procedures.

apnews.com

 

[Ronin786]

Stupid. Planned Parenthood should stay in their lane.

 

[coffeebythelake]

With Roe in doubt, states weigh letting nurses do abortions

As new abortion restrictions are imposed in some parts of the U.S., states with more liberal leadership have been passing laws to let a wider range of medical providers to do the procedures.

apnews.com

If they are unqualified to deal with complications then they shouldn't be doing the procedure.

 

[chocomorsel]

If it’s illegal, it’s illegal no matter who performs it, no?

 

[GravelRider]

The Future of Abortion in a Post-Roe America

Inside the covert network preparing to circumvent restrictions

www.theatlantic.com

It’s not going to be nurses performing abortions either…it might even be your neighbor. All you need is a mason jar, a rubber stopper, some tubing, and a syringe.

 

[deleted1130227]

If they are unqualified to deal with complications then they shouldn't be doing the procedure.

We aren’t qualified to deal with epidural hematomas, carotid cannulation with central lines, most of us can’t place chest tubes from pneumothoraces that we cause, etc.

Not saying this is a great idea, it’s not. But some of the reactions are based on the politics of abortion.

 

[deleted1130227]

If it’s illegal, it’s illegal no matter who performs it, no?

I suspect that there are a good number people are willing to break laws restricting abortion to improve access.
Training a large number of RNs will increase those numbers.
Being (somewhat) trained in the procedure and will also eliminate some of the legal liability for botched abortions as well as reduce the number of botched abortions.

 

[Onefellswoop87]

We aren’t qualified to deal with epidural hematomas, carotid cannulation with central lines, most of us can’t place chest tubes from pneumothoraces that we cause, etc.

Not saying this is a great idea, it’s not. But some of the reactions are based on the politics of abortion.

Epidural hematoma? Psshhhhh, no biggie

With a strong arm and a 14 gauge, I can reach/drain/abort any body cavity

 

[chocomorsel]

I suspect that there are a good number people are willing to break laws restricting abortion to improve access.
Training a large number of RNs will increase those numbers.
Being (somewhat) trained in the procedure and will also eliminate some of the legal liability for botched abortions as well as reduce the number of botched abortions.

Because nurses don't have to carry malpractice insurance?

 

[IMGASMD]

We aren’t qualified to deal with epidural hematomas, carotid cannulation with central lines, most of us can’t place chest tubes from pneumothoraces that we cause, etc.

Not saying this is a great idea, it’s not. But some of the reactions are based on the politics of abortion.

Generally I know what I don’t know. If my CRNAs are any indications of what highly trained “mid-levels” look like, I certainly wouldn’t trust RNs with any procedures that has potentially have life threatening consequences. They will do the “right thing” when they have to admit they were committing an “unlawful” procedure?
Your second point regarding access…. Are we going to rehash the problems of independent practice in rural or difficult access areas?

 

[deleted1130227]

Because nurses don't have to carry malpractice insurance?

I was thinking about mitigating criminal charges for doing something that they have no training in.

 

[deleted941485]

Credentials and safety are irrelevant when it comes to healthcare in this country.

 

[Ronin786]

I suspect that there are a good number people are willing to break laws restricting abortion to improve access.
Training a large number of RNs will increase those numbers.
Being (somewhat) trained in the procedure and will also eliminate some of the legal liability for botched abortions as well as reduce the number of botched abortions.

Why is there any relation between what is legally allowed and the qualifications of those performing them?

It would still be illegal to perform abortions if you're a physician or nurse.

 

[AMEHigh]

I suspect that there are a good number people are willing to break laws restricting abortion to improve access.
Training a large number of RNs will increase those numbers.
Being (somewhat) trained in the procedure and will also eliminate some of the legal liability for botched abortions as well as reduce the number of botched abortions.

The article and other states that allow nurses to perform abortions are not RNs. It’s about letting CNMs, and NPs. Medication abortion and 1st trimester suction abortions are fairly straight forward, that since CNMs and NPs can become competent in things like IUDs and endometrial biopsies which also involve entering the uterus they also have the skills if they are trained for early abortion care.

The complication rate for abortion care is very very low, especially in early pregnancy. Things like a rare infection can be managed by any clinician so not sure what someone means by "if you can’t handle the complications you shouldn’t be doing the procedure."

Just pointing that out that it’s not talking about RNs.

 

[Teillard]

If the number of abortions will fall if Roe is overturned, why the urgency to have nurses perform abortions?

 

[GravelRider]

If the number of abortions will fall if Roe is overturned, why the urgency to have nurses perform abortions?

I think the thinking is that people will travel to states where it is unrestricted and there will be higher demand in those states. There will also be some states that pass a ban beyond an arbitrary week of pregnancy and having to wait or search out a provider could mean having the procedure done legally or illegally. Much of these laws require violating a patient’s privacy in order to enforce, so there is likely to be some aspect of abortions performed illegally despite the laws.

 

[nimbus]

Why is there any relation between what is legally allowed and the qualifications of those performing them?

It would still be illegal to perform abortions if you're a physician or nurse.

Still illegal but a larger pool of people (denominator) from which you could draw people willing to break the law if you added trained nurses to physicians. If nurses can do anesthesia or an endoscopic radial artery harvest, I don’t see why they couldn’t be trained to do an abortion.

 

[Ronin786]

Still illegal but a larger pool of people (denominator) from which you could draw people willing to break the law if you added trained nurses to physicians. If nurses can do anesthesia or an endoscopic radial artery harvest, I don’t see why they couldn’t be trained to do an abortion.

So they're trying to pass a law to have more people break the law? Seems awfully performative.


I can see the nursing lobby arguments in 5 years. From "Advanced practice nurses are more likely to practice in underserved areas" to "Advanced practice nurses are more likely to perform illegal abortions".

 

[GravelRider]

So they're trying to pass a law to have more people break the law? Seems awfully performative.


I can see the nursing lobby arguments in 5 years. From "Advanced practice nurses are more likely to practice in underserved areas" to "Advanced practice nurses are more likely to perform illegal abortions".

It’s like legal inception.

 

[anonperson]

The article and other states that allow nurses to perform abortions are not RNs. It’s about letting CNMs, and NPs. Medication abortion and 1st trimester suction abortions are fairly straight forward, that since CNMs and NPs can become competent in things like IUDs and endometrial biopsies which also involve entering the uterus they also have the skills if they are trained for early abortion care.

The complication rate for abortion care is very very low, especially in early pregnancy. Things like a rare infection can be managed by any clinician so not sure what someone means by "if you can’t handle the complications you shouldn’t be doing the procedure."

Just pointing that out that it’s not talking about RNs.

No, screw that.

IUD placement still gets screwed up on a regular basis with full or partial perforations that require surgical management. I know because I have taken several of these patients to the OR for management over the year with IUDS placed at Planned Parenthood.

What will happen is when the NP, CNM screws up or runs into a complication, they will punt the patient to the ED with a small hand scribbled note asking to consult the on call GYN for an abortion complication.

I have already seen it with the joker docs they hire since they don't have to have admitting privileges so they can do what they want and when $hit hits the fan, tell the patient to go the the closest ED.

Planned Parenthoods agenda is irritating.