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Perhaps we could learn something from the nurses.
Nurses threaten strike over understaffing, and win
Started by Rouelle
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Perhaps we could learn something from the nurses.
3% annual raises.. Not bad
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The strong do what they can, the weak endure what they must.
Pharmacists can't strike even if they had the "courage". There will be plenty of scab pharmacists to take their place.
Really, IL had a functional union for years before our generation screwed it up. MN has one for hospital pharmacists currently in a couple of the systems. It's possible, but pharmacists aren't usually suffering enough and aren't willing to go against the system and form their own. Selection bias as we're "professionals."
When wages start to fall beneath $70k and there's enough threat to everyone if they can't leave, there could be something. But, corporations have learned from past experience to be as antilabor as possible, and with the end of the NLRB as an effective organization, it is pretty impossible to form one without corporate closing down the store.
If we had strong leadership and a clear vision I would follow/support.
Without that I am one guy.... who is our leader? What is our vision?
I usually can’t stand your posts. But we stand united here.
Retail pharms definitely should be unionized. There was an email at the chain I worked for about RPhs unionizing on etime- kind of like an interest survey. You've never seen the bigwigs move so fast to stop the spread of something. It's their worst fear. Would love to see it happen...
There’s a reason Walgreens has all of their managers get licensed in IL. Trying to save themselves if the Chicago union pharmacists strike.
The difference is that pharmacists can easily be replaced whereas nurses cannot. If nurses lose their job, they can easily get one somewhere else in the same city. If a pharmacist loses his/her job, they would probably have to move out of state to find another.
Do you realize how many nurses are out there too? Way more than pharmacists.
Public opinion / relations also probably plays a factor here: nurses are often viewed as selfless and hardworking, heroes of the front lines of medicine, wiping peoples butts and doing it with grace, and so forth. There is a halo around nurses that gives them a more favorable public opinion and more leverage when going on strike. On the other hand, retail pharmacists are seen as greedy, overpaid gatekeepers that take too long to pour pills from one bottle into another bottle. (Staff hospital pharmacists are mysterious creatures that work in the basement, and patients rarely realize a pharmacist plays a significant role in their care while inpatient.)
Public support can make or break a strike. We have a long row to sow before pharmacists are viewed by the public as the underdogs fighting heartless scrooges exploiting our labor.
Public support can make or break a strike. We have a long row to sow before pharmacists are viewed by the public as the underdogs fighting heartless scrooges exploiting our labor.
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There is still a demand for nurses. There is no demand for pharmacists. I don't think nurses would scab. But a unemployed new grad with 200k loans will definitely scab.
Hospitals employ 63 nurses on average. How many pharmacists are employed at the average hospital, 13? Most of the general public doesn't even know pharmacists work at a hospital. They're in the basement and never seen by patients.
This. Nurses have numbers on their side, that is why they rule in hospitals. Even in big hospitals, there are 30 - 40 pharmacists max. And probably 300 - 400 nurses.
That and nurses do all the grunt work no one wants to do IE the doctors. Pharmacist striking in a hospital is more of a nuisance to them, really, but nothing like nurses striking.
I would say it's way more than a nuisance. If a pharmacist strikes then that means no one in the hospital will get their needed medications. I do believe thats why a lot of pharmacists don't strike, patients will be harmed. Nurses do great work and is vital to a hospital, but they do a lot of grunt work.
All they will do is bring in their prn people who are desperate for hours. Problem solved
Docs don’t care which pharmacist approves the meds. They never meet us. They have rapport with specific nurses and want those people on the floor.
Most of the meds they can override anyway, how often do we verify scripts that were already pulled from the Pyxis cause they couldn't wait? Or all those overnight orders for hospitals that aren't 24/7, what's the point of verifying them in the morning after 3rd shift is over? IVs can be outsourced easily, some hospitals don't even have a functioning IV room.
Don't get on the wrong side of nurses; life will be much easier for you. Ask Maureen Walsh.
I have no bone to pick here, but there is an RN shortage. There isn't a pharmacists shortage. It isn't a courage thing, its a numbers thing.
That surprises me. I've worked at some pretty small hospitals, and never saw one without an IV room. Although with all the increased IV room regulations in the 2000's, I can where it could be cheaper to outsource.
Some IV rooms got shut down after the New England Compounding Center disaster. Not worth the risk.
If there is enough time to play cards at critical access hospitals, there's enough time to have uninterrupted breaks and lunch periods.
tylenolnumber3
Full Member
You should set an example and strike yourself.
Nah that’s not my thing bro.. however if there was some actual organization and a strong leader to lead us. Count me in.
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Maybe....but most hospitals (if any) aren't compounding off-label intrathecal injections. Maybe IT for chemo, if they have a chemo center (and then they are doing it for specific patients to be injected that day...not shipping it around the country.) I get what you are saying, that things are more stringent after the NECC disaster, but what NECC was doing, is not what hospital pharmacists/technicians are doing in their IV rooms.
Nurse managers
Just like how there are ways to override pharmacist's approval, there will be other people in the hospital that can administer the medications.
I’m scratching my head as to who that would be.
That is not the reason why a lot of pharmacists don't strike lol. If patients need the meds, a nurse can always override a med and administer them. If there are no nurses, you think a pharmacist is going to verify meds and try to administer them? I believe that many pharmacists don't strike because its the personality aspect of the people who work in pharmacy .. most of us work behind the scenes and passively. Also, because of the market saturation for pharmacists, we aren't going to risk losing our jobs.
Plus imagine 10 or so pharmacists holding signs outside a hospital, the average person would be like "you work here?". Or 1-3 pharmacists outside of a CVS, how ridiculous would that look?
One of the most mind-blowing things for me when I got my first taste of “clinical pharmacy” during my hospital IPPE rotations was that pharmacists can’t administer medications because “that is not within our scope of practice.” So why the *#%*#^ do pharmacists call themselves the “medication experts” when they can’t prescribe OR administer meds (i.e. do the most important medication-related activites) with full independence? Sounds like featherbedding to me.
This profession is a farce.
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BuT cLiNiCaL pHaRmAcY
Pharmacists have no practical skills. We are doctorates at looking things up on Lexicomp.
It would be the doctors themselves, and obviously that would not work in actual practice.
So yes, med administration is one of the reasons nurses have great bargaining power.
Actually, legally speaking, it's a different situation. Doctors can administer medications, maybe medical and nursing students (I'm not sure about that though.) Nursing supervisors could be forced to work overtime and administer meds, but even calling in the ones who are in management and haven't actually worked as a nurse in 20 years, that is still a limited amount of people.
Nursing aides can't administer medications, neither can LPN's (although I'm not sure if that is legally forbidden or just hospital policy....either way, there aren't that many LPN's around these days, as most hospitals do not hire them.)
If such a thing happens, I guarantee you that the pharmacists will bring out all the pharmacy techs to support the cause (which is misguided because pharmacist issues are different from tech issues), thereby inflating the number of protestors by 5-10 fold and creating a false perception of how many rioters there actually are. This is extremely sad because what other HCP’s bring out their ancillary staff when on strike?
Do physicians bring out their nurses, PA’s and office clerks when they go on strike? Do nurses bring out their nursing aides when they go on strike? No, no, no!!!
Yeah right, techs call out half the time. Good luck having them join you in a protest.
Eh, I think they would show up for an hour or 2 if the pharmacists bought them lunch. Just make sure to buy lunch when the reporters are around.
