Nursing for pre-med/pre-PA/pre-pharm?

[pre-unsure]

hello all!

I am currently a pre-nursing student (going into my sophomore year of college) who is really unsure of which healthcare field is best for me. I know, I am young & still have plenty of time before really making such a big decision...but hey, I'm a planning type of girl & it bothers me that I don't know exactly what to do so I can start [planning ].

I know I want to be in healthcare, that 's not the problem. The problem is which type of healthcare provider is best for me. I decided to major in nursing & get my BSN for several reasons: great way to help others, lots of choices for specialities, job security (VERY important for me) & pretty good pay.

I eventually want a graduate degree, however I don't know if I want it to be nursing, a physician assistant, pharmacy or maybe even med school. I'm aware that nursing courses differ from pre-med/pre-pharm courses, & I'm prepared to enroll in summer classes or even do a year or two of post-bac after graduating.

My question is, is it bad to have a BSN degree and apply to PA, Pharmacy or Med schools? Is that a turn off or just a good back up plan? I know that there is a shortage of nurses, & it isn't favorable to get a nursing degree without plans of ever practicing it.

However for me personally, I would just hate to major in biology or psychology and have a hard time finding a job, or things just not working out.

Thanks in advance

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[Aerus]

It's bad if your sole plan is to go into nursing JUST to apply to med school right after. This is completely different from becoming a nurse, working for a little bit, then applying to medical school.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

hello all!

I am currently a pre-nursing student (going into my sophomore year of college) who is really unsure of which healthcare field is best for me. I know, I am young & still have plenty of time before really making such a big decision...but hey, I'm a planning type of girl & it bothers me that I don't know exactly what to do so I can start [planning ].

I know I want to be in healthcare, that 's not the problem. The problem is which type of healthcare provider is best for me. I decided to major in nursing & get my BSN for several reasons: great way to help others, lots of choices for specialities, job security (VERY important for me) & pretty good pay.

I eventually want a graduate degree, however I don't know if I want it to be nursing, a physician assistant, pharmacy or maybe even med school. I'm aware that nursing courses differ from pre-med/pre-pharm courses, & I'm prepared to enroll in summer classes or even do a year or two of post-bac after graduating.

My question is, is it bad to have a BSN degree and apply to PA, Pharmacy or Med schools? Is that a turn off or just a good back up plan? I know that there is a shortage of nurses, & it isn't favorable to get a nursing degree without plans of ever practicing it.

However for me personally, I would just hate to major in biology or psychology and have a hard time finding a job, or things just not working out.

Thanks in advance

You will be fine for pharm and PA schools right after nursing school as long as you work for at least a year because PA schools require about 1000 clinical hours...But for med school, you probably will be asked why you make the switch so early... I am (was) a RN and I have a couple of my former classmates who did PA/Pharm after nursing school and they told me it was not that difficult to get into these professional schools.

 

[kyamh]

Some students don't decide to apply to medical school until junior/senior year. By that time, it is difficult for most students to change their majors so it is pretty reasonable for OP to finish out the nursing major if their story says that they had a change of heart sometime in the next year.

 

[lmn]

Nursing is fine, and in fact gives you a great fall back career where you can even earn $100k+ a year without having to go to med/PA/NP schools if you play you cards right and live in the areas that give these kinds of salaries. Even if you don't break $100k, you are still making a very substantial salary, especially when you can start making that salary in your early 20's for the rest of your career without the need for additional schooling or loans. Imo nursing is a much better lifestyle choice than med school and has so many benefits without the negative parts about becoming a physician that if you don't feel the calling and need to become a physician, I would definitely recommend the nursing path. Plus if you ever decide to go PA or NP, nursing degree and training/work will give you the necessary experience to apply to one of these programs.

 

[Beargryllz]

Nursing is fine, and in fact gives you a great fall back career where you can even earn $100k+ a year without having to go to med/PA/NP schools if you play you cards right and live in the areas that give these kinds of salaries. Even if you don't break $100k, you are still making a very substantial salary, especially when you can start making that salary in your early 20's for the rest of your career without the need for additional schooling or loans. Imo nursing is a much better lifestyle choice than med school and has so many benefits without the negative parts about becoming a physician that if you don't feel the calling and need to become a physician, I would definitely recommend the nursing path. Plus if you ever decide to go PA or NP, nursing degree and training/work will give you the necessary experience to apply to one of these programs.

You'll have a much easier time leading an expedition to Mars than you will breaking $100k with a BSN

 

[dutchdog]

You can break 100k with a bsn pretty easily.

 

[lmn]

You'll have a much easier time leading an expedition to Mars than you will breaking $100k with a BSN

Are you serious? RN-BSN nurses in popular places average $90k+. You obviously live in the middle of nowhere land, don't understand nurses salaries, or greatly underestimate the ease of leading an expedition to Mars, pick your choice.

The only major challenge is breaking into the profession since the pay is so great for the work and along with the downturn in the economy, many older nurses aren't moving out of the profession to make room for new grads. But if you can get your foot in the door, you're sitting pretty.

 

[Beargryllz]

Are you serious? RN-BSN nurses in popular places average $90k+. You obviously live in the middle of nowhere land, don't understand nurses salaries, or greatly underestimate the ease of leading an expedition to Mars, pick your choice.

I'm not saying either are impossible, just unlikely. It's a little bit nuanced but we can go into the relative difficulty or probability of either feat.

 

[lmn]

I'm not saying either are impossible, just unlikely. It's a little bit nuanced but we can go into the relative difficulty or probability of either feat.

http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Registered+Nurse+With+Bsn&l1=new+york,+ny
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Registered+Nurse+With+Bsn&l1=san+jose,+ca
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Registered+Nurse+With+Bsn&l1=boston,+ma

All of these major areas have averages from ~$70-90k/yr, that is an average, plenty of RN BSN nurses break $100k each year.

 

[prettyNURSEtoMD]

I'm a RN BSN and 100k is easy. I can pull 70-80k with little effort.

 

[lmn]

I'm a RN BSN and 100k is easy. I can pull 70-80k with little effort.

I was pretty astonished the first time I researched it and learned how common and easy it is for nurses to only work a couple of shifts a week and pull $70k++. It is amazing to think what some of these nurses can make if they decide to put in heavier work loads/weeks, makes the fiscal idea of becoming a primary care physician seem even more insane and stupid.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

You can break 100k with a bsn pretty easily.

If you work two jobs or overtime, it might not be difficult to break 100k... I think 70k-80k is doable working one job with few overtimes here and there.

 

[deleted307836]

You'll have a much easier time leading an expedition to Mars than you will breaking $100k with a BSN

Absolutely untrue. I know nurses (without a BSN, even) who make >100k working less than 40 hours a week. In some parts of the country, nurses are paid very well, especially those with many years of experience.

 

[prettyNURSEtoMD]

We only work three days a week. If you pull a Saturday. Think about it your base, plus differential plus weekend differential. And think about if you work a holiday you add all that plus time and a half. It's easy. Oh and I only have one job.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Absolutely untrue. I know nurses (without a BSN, even) who make >100k working less than 40 hours a week. In some parts of the country, nurses are paid very well, especially those with many years of experience.

To make >100k/year as a nurse working less than 40hrs/wk, your hourly rate should be about $50... It is almost impossible for a nurse to make that where I live. Of course they are few nurses here and there who make that much, but it is not the norm...I am sure there are FM docs who make 300k, but most people will tell you don't bank on that if you are going into FM as a physician.
http://www1.salary.com/Staff-Nurse-RN-salary.html

 

[deleted307836]

To make >100k/year as a nurse working less than 40hrs/wk, your hourly rate should be about $50... It is almost impossible for a nurse to make that where I live. Of course they are few nurses here and there who make that much, but it is not the norm...I am sure there are FM docs who make 300k, but most people will tell you don't bank on that if you are going into FM as a physician.
http://www1.salary.com/Staff-Nurse-RN-salary.html

Absolutely -- most nurses do not make that much and those rates are only paid in select areas. It's not the unheard of occurrence the other poster made it sound like, though.

 

[correctlywrong]

It's bad if your sole plan is to go into nursing JUST to apply to med school right after. This is completely different from becoming a nurse, working for a little bit, then applying to medical school.

What Aerus said.

That is basically the road I am on, and it seems to be working out. Having worked as a nurse means that I had no difficulty getting a number of physicians to write stellar letters for me. I have taught medical students rotating through my clinical site, so I am aware that I have knowledge and experience that will put me ahead of the game.

I didn't set out to go RN to Dr.. I didn't think I would get past RN, due to family obligations. If I had known when I was young how to get money for college without signing a contract with the devil, I would have gone straight for pre-med to MD or DO. And I would have missed out on a lot of formative experiences in the process. I won't say I am glad to have taken the harder road, but it certainly has made me who I am.

Here is my best advice from an old nurse to a young one. Don't let them shove you, kicking and screaming, into Med/Surg. Med/Surg aka floor nursing is a minefield and they always need fresh young troops to send in. It is the most gut-wrenching, back-breaking, understaffed, underpaid, and desperately underappreciated nursing specialty. If you are one of the martyrs that wants to do it, bless you. But what usually happens is that the schools tell all the new nurses that you have to do at least a year of it before you are allowed to specialize as an RN. BS. That is just so the hospitals can keep those floors staffed. The attrition rates are incredible. In my 18 months of doing it, 10 nurses left our floor. At six months, I looked around and realized that for 50% of my shifts, I was the most experienced nurse on the floor.

If there is something you want to do as a nurse, go for it, with gusto. ICU? L&D? OR? Don't let anyone tell you not to try for those jobs, or that you have to pay your dues before you can do something you love. All you have to do is figure out what you are passionate about.

 

[lmn]

To make >100k/year as a nurse working less than 40hrs/wk, your hourly rate should be about $50... It is almost impossible for a nurse to make that where I live. Of course they are few nurses here and there who make that much, but it is not the norm...I am sure there are FM docs who make 300k, but most people will tell you don't bank on that if you are going into FM as a physician.
http://www1.salary.com/Staff-Nurse-RN-salary.html

True, most don't make $100k, which is exactly why I prefaced it with saying you have to be in the right place and play your cards right. But you don't need to make anywhere near $100k in somewhere like Akron, Ohio to be pretty darn well off and live a comfortable life.

 

[correctlywrong]

100k? Not where I'm from.

I work my tail off. 50-60 hours a week isn't unusual. (while taking classes full-time, pulling a 4.0 for the term, yo! No humblebrag here, just brag.)

I will see 70k if I keep up that pace. I work in an area where a single hospital system is metastasizing. They claim to pay "market wages for the region." But since they own the region, that isn't particularly impressive to me.

With my experience, if I did travel nursing, I could pull 100k. But at home? not even with 20 hours a week of OT.

 

[correctlywrong]

I was pretty astonished the first time I researched it and learned how common and easy it is for nurses to only work a couple of shifts a week and pull $70k++. It is amazing to think what some of these nurses can make if they decide to put in heavier work loads/weeks, makes the fiscal idea of becoming a primary care physician seem even more insane and stupid.

"Insane and stupid." Sure, you know, if you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

Look, if you want to do any of this for the money, you are a bit dense. Go into finance. Doctors love to think that they know how to trade stocks and you can make a killing fleecing them, erm being their investment advisor.

I am a nurse that doesn't want to become a nurse practitioner. I want to go to medical school, rack up a ton of debt, and come out a primary care doctor. I want to do this because I believe that the care that I will be able to offer my patients will be of a higher quality. That patient-centered mumbo-jumbo? Some of us are insane and stupid enough to embrace it wholeheartedly.

You are right. If all I wanted was money, I could, by making the right career moves, earn more as a nurse than many PCPs net after paying their loans and other overhead. But I wouldn't be working just a couple of shifts a week to do it. And I wouldn't be satisfied.

I hope that your primary care doctor sees more in you than dollar signs.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I was pretty astonished the first time I researched it and learned how common and easy it is for nurses to only work a couple of shifts a week and pull $70k++. It is amazing to think what some of these nurses can make if they decide to put in heavier work loads/weeks, makes the fiscal idea of becoming a primary care physician seem even more insane and stupid.

A lot nursing jobs are backbreaking jobs... Sure you can make 100k/year, but remember most of these jobs are 12 hrs shift and working more than 4 days/week might take a big toll on your well-being . I have done it for almost 8 years (working 3 days/wk) and I could not see myself doing it for another 3o, hence I am a med student now.

 

[Psai]

If you want to keep the door open for other fields, definitely take the medical prereqs if you can fit it into your schedule. The nursing versions that I've seen are so watered down that you won't have a solid foundation.

 

[lmn]

"Insane and stupid." Sure, you know, if you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

Look, if you want to do any of this for the money, you are a bit dense. Go into finance. Doctors love to think that they know how to trade stocks and you can make a killing fleecing them, erm being their investment advisor.

I am a nurse that doesn't want to become a nurse practitioner. I want to go to medical school, rack up a ton of debt, and come out a primary care doctor. I want to do this because I believe that the care that I will be able to offer my patients will be of a higher quality. That patient-centered mumbo-jumbo? Some of us are insane and stupid enough to embrace it wholeheartedly.

You are right. If all I wanted was money, I could, by making the right career moves, earn more as a nurse than many PCPs net after paying their loans and other overhead. But I wouldn't be working just a couple of shifts a week to do it. And I wouldn't be satisfied.

I hope that your primary care doctor sees more in you than dollar signs.

Did you even care to read what I said? I said the "FISCAL IDEA", hint hint, VR keyword right there. Financially and debt wise spending 7 years and $200k++ to earn a salary not much higher than you can make as a nurse with a BSN while working such insane loads during residency isn't necessarily really that beneficial or worth it comparatively.

I said absolutely nothing negative about choosing a PCP position other than how it stacks financially, so please step off your pedestal and respond to what I said instead of trying to insinuate that I am greed and only in the medical profession for the money when I clearly state that I am only going to respond to one aspect of the profession.

 

[lmn]

A lot nursing jobs are backbreaking jobs... Sure you can make 100k/year, but remember most of these jobs are 12 hrs shift and working more than 4 days/week might take a big toll on your well-being . I have done it for almost 8 years (working 3 days/wk) and I could not see myself doing it for another 3o, hence I am a med student now.

I agree, many nursing jobs can be quite taxing and strenuous, but can I ask what specialty you are shooting for that you don't expect to be so taxing?

I am curious about your experience, because I believe nurse job satisfaction compared to physicians is quite high ~90% according to this study (http://www.amnhealthcare.com/upload..._Insights/Industry_Research/2013_RNSurvey.pdf). On the other hand, you have physician surveys saying that 56% are happy with their choice (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-career-path-pay-cuts-student-loans-bite.html). You tack on burnout surveys (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/lifestyle/2013/public#2) and it makes me wonder what your plan is/specialty choice that you believe will bring you higher satisfaction and an easier work schedule.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@lmn... I think these nursing satisfaction surveys are bull and you can ask more nurses in the field if you don't believe me... I am not sure if psychiatry will bring easier work schedule or better satisfaction overall, but I just could not see myself doing nursing for another 30 years...

 

[lmn]

@lmn... I think these nursing satisfaction surveys are bull and you can ask more nurses in the field if you don't believe me... I am not sure if psychiatry will bring easier work schedule or better satisfaction overall, but I just could not see myself doing nursing for another 30 years...

Fair enough. I definitely don't take those survey results as these people are extremely happy with how their job operates, but unless they are complete fabrications, I think it shows that somehow most nurses still find the job worth it overall and it allows them a generally happy and good life overall as well. Tbh, I would not have guessed it to be so high with the challenges of the profession, but I don't have the insight to really know.

 

[Annabell Lee]

I'm about to be an LPN and am going to take my premed classes along with my BSN. Honestly nursing school is what made me consider med school. I think there are pro's and con's to any major as a premed. Good luck

I was pretty astonished the first time I researched it and learned how common and easy it is for nurses to only work a couple of shifts a week and pull $70k++. It is amazing to think what some of these nurses can make if they decide to put in heavier work loads/weeks, makes the fiscal idea of becoming a primary care physician seem even more insane and stupid.

The crazy thing is most job listings don't factor in shift differential. If you pick up extra shifts strategically, they add up. I've seen RN's pick up extra shifts that give them multiple differentials (holidays/weekends/night shift/critical care) when they are already on over time, and end up making about $60/hr for that shift, and these were ASNs, not BSNs.

 

[lmn]

The crazy thing is most job listings don't factor in shift differential. If you pick up extra shifts strategically, they add up. I've seen RN's pick up extra shifts that give them multiple differentials (holidays/weekends/night shift/critical care) when they are already on over time, and end up making about $60/hr for that shift, and these were ASNs, not BSNs.

Very true, although personally I don't know how I'd calculate an average for the nursing profession since there is so much variability allowing you to pick up additional shifts depending on how much you would want to work and including things such as holiday bonus pay. It's really nice imo how with nursing you can choose to go all out and pick up a bunch of shifts and bonus pay hours and make a pretty hefty salary, or you could scale back to more of a normal work week and still keep a more balanced home life, but I do agree that work is tough and picking up so many extra hours and weekends/nights/holidays is very taxing and deserves a significant pay bump.

 

[jl lin]

If you work two jobs or overtime, it might not be difficult to break 100k... I think 70k-80k is doable working one job with few overtimes here and there.

That's untrue and it depends on a number of factors:
1. Region in which you work--if more rural or inner city--kind of opposite as compared with certain areas of medicine. Inner city RNs working at high-level university medical centers GENERALLY make more than those working in community hospitals--but their workload, schedules, and acuity of patients can also be more demanding.
2. Type of Nursing you do. The more you are responsible for knowing and doing, especially technologically speaking, the higher your income.
3. Length of time and types of experiences you have had over the years, while working as an RN.
4. Whether or not you have an ADN as an RN or if you have a BSN as an RN--this can vary.
5. Whether you have specialty certification.
6. Whether you are willing to work a lot or all off-shift or night shifts.
7. Whether or not you are willing or able to work OT or work somewhere else over and above 36-40 hours.
8. Whether you are in a Nurse Manager or Administrative Role or are aiming for a director position or a CNO position.
9. Whether you work in medical or pharm sales.
10. Whether you have a graduate degree--usually 9, 11, 13, and 15 require this.
11. Whether you are an advanced practice nurse.
12. Whether you work travel nursing (varies) or if you are willing to work travel nursing outside the country (such as in Dubai or Saudi Arabia).
13. Whether you are an educator on the university level--of course requires a masters proceeding to a doctoral degree.
14. Whether your ultimate aim is to marry a physician in a high-paying specialty--like CT surgery--LOL You'd think these nurses don't exist, but, well, yea. They do. Could have gone this way myself, but a. It's not me., and b., I was already married very young, and c. not into breaking up other people's families (since most residents and fellows tend to be married or getting ready to be married).
15. Whether or not you are using RN as a bridge to CRNA in order to make $140,000+ per year.

 

[jl lin]

I agree, many nursing jobs can be quite taxing and strenuous, but can I ask what specialty you are shooting for that you don't expect to be so taxing?

I am curious about your experience, because I believe nurse job satisfaction compared to physicians is quite high ~90% according to this study (http://www.amnhealthcare.com/upload..._Insights/Industry_Research/2013_RNSurvey.pdf). On the other hand, you have physician surveys saying that 56% are happy with their choice (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-career-path-pay-cuts-student-loans-bite.html). You tack on burnout surveys (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/lifestyle/2013/public#2) and it makes me wonder what your plan is/specialty choice that you believe will bring you higher satisfaction and an easier work schedule.

Uh, I don't know about this. Many, many less than happy nurses out there to be honest. This is part of what makes the field tough to work in; b/c there is more competition and less unity among nurses--dissatisfied people that should have thought twice about going into the field, but a number that only did so b/c it pays better than the local department store. Those folks don't have a true commitment to nursing--or never had it--nor do they care about nursing as professionals. You have a lot of folks that aren't answering polls. They do what they must to bring in their bacon and go on with their lives. Sadly, too many backstabbing people in nursing end up stepping all over their colleagues in order to get ahead, and often they do. You might be amazed at the amount of disloyalty nurses have for their own.

 

[GomersGoToGround]

Is it bad to have a medical career backup plan, in a major that you like much better, just in case you do not make it into med school? Seems pretty responsible to me.

Of course, you'll be asked questions such as, "Why aren't you sticking with nursing?" or, "Why did you go into nursing in the first place?" In that case, sure, a working job directly in medicine while you wait to attend medical school is fine. But be sure to express the extent to which you love patient care, and the opportunity to work in clinics and have direct patient responsibility before medical school, is important. Hopefully, you will also have shadowed physicians, and can make clear, realistic distinctions between the professions. Biology is not a very good major for job security or money, right out of college.

It's important to major in something you absolutely love, and something you can do well in (not saying you'd do poorly in biology, but if you hate it, it will surely be more difficult to force yourself to study). I do NOT believe you will be looked down upon, as long as the rest of your application is in good shape, but that's the case with any applicant, really.

 

[Darth Doc]

I agree, many nursing jobs can be quite taxing and strenuous, but can I ask what specialty you are shooting for that you don't expect to be so taxing?

I am curious about your experience, because I believe nurse job satisfaction compared to physicians is quite high ~90% according to this study .

I started out planning on getting a BSN in nursing... then my mom, a nurse, said not to do it. She worked hard and loved caring for patients (she's retired now) but never felt she was appreciated. She also got bored easily and switched jobs every couple of years. I hate being bored.

(My husband's a BSN and hates what he calls the "nursey" courses about nursing research and such. He has never found those courses useful, and I'm glad I went with a BS in bio which covered all of the science classes necessary for med school and PA school.)

So, I switched to a BS in biology. The BS in biology led to getting a masters as a physician assistant. I was confident that I could do it, but if I wasn't accepted the first year my plan was to spend a year doing medical work in a 3rd world country and reapply the next year.

Over 10 years later, I'm in my first year of medical school. It would have been easier and faster to have done med school after undergrad, but I don't regret the experiences I've had since then.

You have to decide which path is right for you. I recommend you shadow nurses, midlevels, and doctors and decide which one you want and go from there. Don't choose something you don't actually enjoy because you might get stuck doing it. Work will always be work, but if you don't like it, it's torture.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions.

 

[D0ct0rDee]

First off, do what you think you will love (or hate the least). Shadow some docs, nurses, pa's, pharmacists, etc. And don't limit yourself to the medical field.
Continue to plan, but plan as you go. And as a sophomore, I would not recommend planning for a the graduate degree unless you are 110% sure that it's what you want. I've met too many people in undergrad who were gunning to get a graduate degree, ended getting the degree, and decided it wasn't for them (thousands of dollars and years wasted). I've also me individuals who were happy with obtaining advanced degrees, but these individuals decided to pursue a higher degree after gaining some life/career experiences, and knew what they were going to do with the advance degrees.

Just to give you perspective, here is my story:
I went to nursing school at a community college for a tuition of 5k, all of which was paid for through scholarships. While I was still in nursing school, I explored other medical field options. I thought about going into medical school, pharmacy school, and dental school. I even went so far as to take the MCAT and scored a 37Q (back in 2010), and applied and was accepted to a med school (after working as an RN for a couple of years). Ultimately, however, I passed on the opportunity (for now), because: 1. my current career doesn't require me to go above and beyond the the 40 hour work week 2. the money is good enough (studies have shown that happiness plateaus in individuals who make over 70k a year, regardless of whether they are making 70k or 700k a year), and 3. most importantly, I'm happy to live in one of the most beautiful/temperate places on earth. Just to give you an idea of where I am at: I've been working as an RN for 3 years, and am now a level 2 rn in northern california. I make 64.99/hr, working a 40 hour week. My yearly gross comes out to about 135k a year without overtime. If I work overtime or holiday, I get the time and a half diffrential (92.50/hr); there is plenty of opporutnity for OT if I want it. On that note, I know nurses who work 80+ hrs a week making over 300k/year (more than the average physician salary). If money is the goal, there is plenty of opportunity up here if you can get it. One thing to note: The pay for nurses in NorCal is an exception to the rest of the country; in other parts of the US, the average pay of RNs is half of what we bay area nurses make. Granted, we live in a very expensive part of the country, the pay is still disproportionally high. Also, because of this diffrential, it is one of the most competitive markets to get into for nursing.
I'm not writing this to put down medicine or any other professional field. But i'd like to point out that you don't need an advance degree to be happy.
In the end, do what fits the lifestyle you want to live.

Good luck in your endeavors