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Holy ****. You are telling me nurses are expected to work for their bloated salary involving critically ill people? Wow, our bad. We will get to correcting that soon.
Nursing - throwing everyone else under the bus?
Started by Truthspeaker
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Lol, listen, us SICU nurses are a different breed. We don't play that game 😉
Some work is harder than other work. Some work is more frustrating that other work. Floor nursing is a bad combination of tedious and exhausting.
As physicians we really do need to be more concerned about the dismal state of floor nursing, if only for our own sakes. One of the issues that is actually causing problems with modern nursing is that the nursing lobbies been much more successful at expanding their profession than they have been at protecting it. For floor and ICU nursing real dollar salaries have been dropping, union protections have steadily eroded, admin burden has steadily increased, and patient to nurse ratios have risen. At the same time the rewards for advance practice nursing, research nursing, and nurse management have steadily risen even while the barrier to entry has been lowered. The result is a brain drain, with a huge chunk of the best and brightest fleeing the floors, and the patients that desperately need them, and moving into jobs where they do much less good but receive much more appreciation.
Every time someone ****s on a floor nurse for being lazy, or having a 'bloated salary', that's one more good nurse who is now off the floor and dreaming up new metrics for you to follow.
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It's not possible to like this enough!
Most medical students have no idea how absolutely **** it is to be a floor nurse for a career. I would put it as one of the worst jobs in America to be quite honest. It is just a perfect storm of terrible. It's an environment that removes any chance of decent nurses staying and changing the way things are. It's like teaching k-12. People who are good enough to be great teachers don't want to put up with that crap and move on to bigger and better things. Then you have people who leave because it stinks and they move to administration to make things even worse.
Lol working the current RN job I have now in the Midwest I would need to work 40 hours plus another 110ish hours of overtime every week of the year to make 274k a year before taxes. Not very likely to happen lol.
100%. I had no clue until I was a CNA on a general medical unit during my gap year. Honestly believe it should be a pre-requisite of medical school to have some sort of direct patient contact like CNA, EMT, etc. rather than scribing because you actually get a feeling of how the healthcare system works and how terrible it can be some days when you're understaffed and have nutball patients. You realize how terribly some docs treat the nurses then wonder why they don't have backup from them. Sure there are plenty of bad nurses out there but there are also ones that save your butt. I loved my CNA experience but it was dirty, hard work with next to nothing pay...really gives you an appreciation of things outside the lecture hall. I'm in no way a nursing union truther, opposite of that in fact, its just the way life is in the actual clinical setting. It's a team game and the docs that step out of their bubble and help a patient get to the chair, get the patient water, or some small thing like that have a heck of a better time and better backup from the entire staff
and there are few, if any, floor nurses reaching even close to 100,000 much less 275,000. At least in the midwest where I'm from. No clue where those numbers came from
Agree that everyone should get an actual job in the healthcare system, strongly disagree that scribing doesn't show you that perspective (imo, it gives you a more valuable look at the healthcare system you'll be going into than EMT). If someone hasn't learned the above after working as a scribe for a while, they never will.
maybe its just the scribes I saw but none of them ever seemed like they were doing anything but scribbling and never even looked at the patient/anyone else on the floor. Again maybe I just saw some bad ones
Probably also depends on the ER. I considered it my job, as the least-skilled and least-qualified person on the floor, to do whatever I was capable of doing that made anyone else's job easier. Whether that was getting record releases, tracking down outside hospitals/doctors and files/images, snagging the ultrasound or GlideScope or whatever from storage (which incidentally made me, the only one with no assigned task who was suddenly there with the equipment, the ideal person to ask for any extra hands needed), getting water or blankets, organizing the charts when we'd gotten too slammed to do anything but pile them all near the charge nurse, running back to patient rooms for followup questions, letting the nurses know if they accidentally entered their Fahrenheit temp as Celsius so the chart now read "208ºF" in an afebrile patient, keeping track of the doctor's favorite procedure setups and keeping my pockets full with the things they might need...the list is endless and boring, but so are all of the little things that make healthcare go. I'd often go into a room before my doc got there and chat for a minute so that we could settle into a good rapport and then it was easier for the doc to jump in and out really quickly and get a good H&P. My charts were done (except super complicated patients) within a few minutes of returning from the patient room, just waiting for labs and imaging results and rechecks, so if I'd done nothing but scribbles, I'd have been REALLY bored. I always set up my deck at the outside so that if the patients had questions, I was the filter who could figure out whether it was something I could address, something that needed a nurse, or something the doc would see on recheck.
I've seen scribing at academic centers and it looks like a ****show, though. Too many doctors, and the scribes are just floating, which means they don't own a set of patients, or know how that day's doctor likes her charts or what their flow is for the shift.
Came across this in another thread. Salary for this RN in 2016 was 442k. And you guys thought 274k was impossible hahahha.
Here is a link to the Cali public system salary. Compensation at the University of California: Annual Wage if you search clin nurse, you get the results of RN who are doing clinical work. (not including the RN admins, they get paid a ton too) I did a search of those with 200k+ salaries and came up with 176 results. If you search 150k+, you get 2063 results, just in the public system of california. You guys seriously underestimate the power of being in a strong union.
I personally think RN/PA/NP are some of the best jobs out there possible
if you bothered to read what I said...i was referencing in the Midwest. Sweet call out though really. Cali doesn't really equate to the rest of the country because with that salary she could probably afford a nice 2 bed 2 bath place. I'll still stick with being a doc in the Midwest personally but whatever floats your boat budCame across this in another thread. Salary for this RN in 2016 was 442k. And you guys thought 274k was impossible hahahha.
Here is a link to the Cali public system salary. Compensation at the University of California: Annual Wage if you search clin nurse, you get the results of RN who are doing clinical work. (not including the RN admins, they get paid a ton too) I did a search of those with 200k+ salaries and came up with 176 results. If you search 150k+, you get 2063 results, just in the public system of california. You guys seriously underestimate the power of being in a strong union.
I personally think RN/PA/NP are some of the best jobs out there possible
better than what you'll be living in as a physician if you work there =).
Can't just disregard it cause its 'cali'. Doctor have some of the lowest salaries there...
Also point of post was not equaling cali to rest of country, or saying all nurses make 200k+, i am just pointing out that they do exist and is not that rare (not really referring so much to your post)
I'm not very impressed by the 176 results; that's <2% of the total number in that pool. The $150k one is more interesting...played around a little, and if you pick boundaries where 10% of all listed salaries are under and 10% over, you get a range in CA public health systems of $40,000-$160,000. The extremes are really screwy, though...you either get people like the example you posted, with as much overtime pay as real pay and a ton of 'other' listed, or the other extreme where they get paid maybe $14 total and it's clearly a training or a one-off thing or something (makes you wonder whether the pay was worth the paperwork to get it).Came across this in another thread. Salary for this RN in 2016 was 442k. And you guys thought 274k was impossible hahahha.
Here is a link to the Cali public system salary. Compensation at the University of California: Annual Wage if you search clin nurse, you get the results of RN who are doing clinical work. (not including the RN admins, they get paid a ton too) I did a search of those with 200k+ salaries and came up with 176 results. If you search 150k+, you get 2063 results, just in the public system of california. You guys seriously underestimate the power of being in a strong union.
I personally think RN/PA/NP are some of the best jobs out there possible
Yeah, it also isn't exactly clear if it's just wages or total compensation (benefits, retirement matching, etc) . The other thing to note is how many hours of overtime it takes to get to some of these levels. It indicates pretty serious understaffing if you have people getting that many overtime hours, which means the work likely really sucks as you're probably short staffed a lot.
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Not sure how much they pay, but you can see even the base salary for some of the top earners for RN are 150k+... and I think it is salary only not total package. My guess is the top earners have been there for a years and probably had yearly raises per union contract or something
Unless my math is wrong that nurse is getting paid almost 90 dollars in hour and averaging 1.5 shifts of overtime a week disregarding deferential pay during the weekend and night shifts. And thats not counting the 144k in "other pay". The average pay of RNs in cali is around 50ish dollars which makes it hard to believe that this person is actually making this much. There is no way this person is a floor RN. Regardless of that the administration at the hospital is absolutely terrible if they have nurses picking up that much overtime. What a waste of money for the hospital to have to pay out all that overtime.Came across this in another thread. Salary for this RN in 2016 was 442k. And you guys thought 274k was impossible hahahha.
Here is a link to the Cali public system salary. if you search clin nurse, you get the results of RN who are doing clinical work. (not including the RN admins, they get paid a ton too) I did a search of those with 200k+ salaries and came up with 176 results. If you search 150k+, you get 2063 results, just in the public system of california. You guys seriously underestimate the power of being in a strong union.
I personally think RN/PA/NP are some of the best jobs out there possible
See I never brought cali in at all. Again refer to what I said...where I am from in the Midwest you will not find that sort of anomaly for a floor nurse. Reading is key. You cannot say that the value of the dollar is equal in San Francisco vs. Iowa, Minnesota, etc. There are exceptions to every rule but finding 1 example and saying that it exists accomplishes nothing. Like most others have pointed out there are many variables that you ignore.
Again I am not directly referring to midwest anything. The point was just to show there are RNs making that much. If you want i can just unquote your post lol
Lets keep things civil and move back on topic please.
Jesus christ, dude, all they did was go find data to try and show that *some* nurses can make salaries as high as the number which was claimed earlier in the thread, which was dismissed as impossible. ("No nurse is making...")
They didn't extrapolate from that, didn't try to say that CA salaries aren't offset by CA cost of living, just...showed that it is, indeed, happening somewhere, with some employees.
OMG...For one month, 3x12 hour shifts/week, for that pay, one month of it, I will personally deal with every explosive diarrhea case within the hospital. I'll carry a pager, respond by text, over head call..."Calling Nurse XYZ, Explosive Diarrhea 3 South...Calling Nurse XYZ, Explosive Diarrhea enroute to the ED"...I'm on it.Came across this in another thread. Salary for this RN in 2016 was 442k. And you guys thought 274k was impossible hahahha.
Here is a link to the Cali public system salary. Compensation at the University of California: Annual Wage if you search clin nurse, you get the results of RN who are doing clinical work. (not including the RN admins, they get paid a ton too) I did a search of those with 200k+ salaries and came up with 176 results. If you search 150k+, you get 2063 results, just in the public system of california. You guys seriously underestimate the power of being in a strong union.
I personally think RN/PA/NP are some of the best jobs out there possible
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This is a psychological problem in nursing related to power and control. Nurses are in a position of complete powerlessness. Despite a bachelors degree, they don’t even have the authority to order a tums for their patient without a written order. Despite a critical care nurse often catching critical assessment components and coordinating the care that saves the patients life, that patient who is now extubated treats the nurse like crap because she didn’t get three different kinds of cheese on her grilled cheese sandwich. The list goes on forever.
These powerless nurses express their frustrations by toxic, controlling, manipulative behavior towards people they feel they can control; new nurses, interns, etc.
These powerless nurses express their frustrations by toxic, controlling, manipulative behavior towards people they feel they can control; new nurses, interns, etc.
Yep. She's an OR RN at UCSF, and has been working there for more than 6 years. She was mentioned in an article in 2011, can't link but they did mention some interesting things:
"But UC officials again said most of the top-paid employees didn’t receive their pay directly from the cash-strapped system’s general fund, or from tuition-based revenue. Most of these top earners instead drew salaries from income-generating medical centers or through grants and other sources, officials said."
"The amount paid in overtime in 2010 was $132.7 million, an increase of 6.6 percent from 2009. Thirteen of the top 15 overtime earners were nurses, including Chikako Ito, who raked in $110,082 in overtime pay to supplement her $135,470 base salary. But UC nursing unions have previously said the high rate of overtime for nurses indicates a severe shortage of staff. "
Umm... boo hoo?
You want powerless and treated like cra0? Try being a resident
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That was a completely unacceptable and disrespectful response to my post.
anyone in health care is gonna need thicker skin...especially on an anonymous internet forum...you'll be okay
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So it’s ok to be a jerk for no reason: you’re one of the problems with SDN.
he wasn't that inflammatory is all I'm saying. There are much worse things that have been said on here that actually warrant getting upset about
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So if you get caught for speeding is your defense “I could have been going faster.” He/she was a jerk to a stranger for no reason. End of story.
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Those two are nothing even remotely close to the same and he said nothing directly at you just how residents are less respected than nurses. Have fun in medical training if something like that offends you that much you'll get eaten alive
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SDN is exactly as toxic as we all allow it to be. Cheers.
I love nurses but the general idea that is reinforced from this thread is that nurses have napoleon complexes (and so do some SDNers). Always angry, tired, and yelling at medical students, residents, and attendings. Really though, I have seen it first hand. They are upset because they wish they were in medical school and therefore had a more intellectually stimulating career . Majority of RN's think they are smarter than chief doctors.....always b*tching when labs and tests are ordered. I saw one nurse throw a fit because an attending refused to give a belligerent pt in the ED haldol (patient was recovering torsades), but the nurse did not care. They honestly think they are smarter than doctors, and hence why when they get their APRN degrees they believe they are gods gift to medicine. Next thing you know, they are going to make a video discussing how getting an APRN is more competitive than MD/DO......Shame shame shame.
Im sorry but the idea that most nurses are upset the didn't go to medical school is completely false. The majority of nurses have absolutely no desire to have the job most doctors do. The educational commitments and even the hours you have to put in as an attending let alone as a resident are honestly just not appealing to most nurses. A career in nursing has plenty of potential to be intellectually stimulating. Obviously not as much as that of doctor but what the job lacks in intellectual stimulation it more than makes up for in emotional stimulation, often times more than a career in medicine does. On top of that you should be thankful that all the bedside nurses have little desire to go to med school because there are plenty that could have made it if they actually tried which would have meant one less spot for the med school hopefuls that look down on nurses. As for saying that nurses think they're smarter than the docs...no. Almost no nurse I know believes they would do a better job at coordinating a patients care (besides maybe a NP but thats a whole different can of worms). If you have a nurse that doesn't understand why you do or don't prescribe a med a simple explanation is all it usually requires. After all nurses are the ones pushing the drugs so guess who gets an incident report filed on them if a hydralazine is ordered by the doc and given but the doctor meant hydroxyzine (the nurse does if you're wondering).
Instead of complaining about nursing staff all the time just get along with them and everyone's day will be better. Obviously there are outliers in nursing that are complete d***heads. If it makes you feel any better most of the nursing staff hates working with them just as much as you do. With this being said I am a nurse that wants to go to med school so maybe I'm a contradiction to my own post 😉
Instead of complaining about nursing staff all the time just get along with them and everyone's day will be better. Obviously there are outliers in nursing that are complete d***heads. If it makes you feel any better most of the nursing staff hates working with them just as much as you do. With this being said I am a nurse that wants to go to med school so maybe I'm a contradiction to my own post 😉
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It’s just bait, don’t feed the troll.
Talk to any nurse out there and 80% will tell you they plan on being an APRN in the near future. Forgive me for being slightly concerned about encroachment and job security as a health care provider.
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Reference needed*
20-30% of nurses I have worked with are wonderful, hard working team players. The other percentage is some variation of lazy, bitter, stupid and/or vindictive.
To be fair, this also applies to doctors but the proportion is opposite.
To be fair, this also applies to doctors but the proportion is opposite.
*actually working in a hospital
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Let me know what your p value is after you find it.
*Sigh* keep living in this fairyland. If you are a nursing student/nurse...GOOD JOB, you managed to encroach on your bosses' (physician) job. If you are a medical student...keep siding with them and you will be working for nurses sooner or later. We need to be more strict with encroachment and other healthcare professions that threaten our existence. We as medical professionals have done a poor job lobbying to protect our rights. Nurses like the one in the title of this thread may one day have full "practicing rights" on a patient and end up killing them. In the end do you know who will get blamed?...physicians!!!!!!
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Approaching this debate with a toxic, zero sum mentality is exactly why doctors keep losing the debates. Again, you people are part of the problem.
I think it depends on the region and the hospital. You can have two hospitals a block apart with completely different cultures.
There is no debate. Nurses should not be doctors. You want to be a doctor go to medical school. So many others have gotten it right, why can't we? You do not see dental hygienists practicing dentistry or mechanics practicing engineering.
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Medicine has 99 problems. Nurses aren’t one of them. Maybe there’s more important things we should all be worried about.
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Not a problem for you......
Maybe spend less time promoting independent practice and lobbying for it and more time promoting patient ratios?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Person holding the pager with no back up to patient ratio is, depending on the day, 50:1.
Person holding the pager with no back up to patient ratio is, depending on the day, 50:1.
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