Nursing to Med School? Really need advice.

[deleted244469]

Hey guys, I am really looking for some advice. I am still 2-2.5 years from graduating from school. Not yet accepted into Nursing school (my major). I am planning to go to Medical School after. Would I be better off getting into another major? Moving to another major will not cause me to add any time to my schooling career as I already have a lot of of the pre-requisites for the other major I am looking at. First, I understand nursing school is very difficult and do not want to sacrifice lowering my GPA. On the flip side, I feel that nursing school will give me a nice experience, especially when I get to the clinical hours. The other "issue" I am contemplating is that I am essentially using nursing as a "backup" plan/profession. This new major is something that while I do find interesting, I have no intention of actually working in it. Just really need some advice. Thanks!

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[RogueUnicorn]

Hey guys, I am really looking for some advice. I am still 2-2.5 years from graduating from school. Not yet accepted into Nursing school (my major). I am planning to go to Medical School after. Would I be better off getting into another major? Moving to another major will not cause me to add any time to my schooling career as I already have a lot of of the pre-requisites for the other major I am looking at. First, I understand nursing school is very difficult and do not want to sacrifice lowering my GPA. On the flip side, I feel that nursing school will give me a nice experience, especially when I get to the clinical hours. The other "issue" I am contemplating is that I am essentially using nursing as a "backup" plan/profession. This new major is something that while I do find interesting, I have no intention of actually working in it. Just really need some advice. Thanks!

1000% yes. By god, yes.

 

[Myuu]

Hey guys, I am really looking for some advice. I am still 2-2.5 years from graduating from school. Not yet accepted into Nursing school (my major). I am planning to go to Medical School after. Would I be better off getting into another major? Moving to another major will not cause me to add any time to my schooling career as I already have a lot of of the pre-requisites for the other major I am looking at. First, I understand nursing school is very difficult and do not want to sacrifice lowering my GPA. On the flip side, I feel that nursing school will give me a nice experience, especially when I get to the clinical hours. The other "issue" I am contemplating is that I am essentially using nursing as a "backup" plan/profession. This new major is something that while I do find interesting, I have no intention of actually working in it. Just really need some advice. Thanks!

This is exactly the reason you should not be doing this. The adcoms don't like to see this. At all. The nurses don't like this either, btw.

 

[Brrooother]

Hey guys, I am really looking for some advice. I am still 2-2.5 years from graduating from school. Not yet accepted into Nursing school (my major). I am planning to go to Medical School after. Would I be better off getting into another major? Moving to another major will not cause me to add any time to my schooling career as I already have a lot of of the pre-requisites for the other major I am looking at. First, I understand nursing school is very difficult and do not want to sacrifice lowering my GPA. On the flip side, I feel that nursing school will give me a nice experience, especially when I get to the clinical hours. The other "issue" I am contemplating is that I am essentially using nursing as a "backup" plan/profession. This new major is something that while I do find interesting, I have no intention of actually working in it. Just really need some advice. Thanks!

You will probably get plenty of differing opinions here, so take them all with a grain of salt, but here's mine:

First of all, you're just going to nursing school to get beneficial experience for med school? Seems to me if med school is your long-term goal, skip nursing school and go straight for med. True, nursing will help you in the experience area, but I don't think it will truly help enough to make the extra time and money spent on school really worth it. Four of my classmates (in my med school class of 48) went to nursing school first, but only because they decided after becoming RNs that they wanted to be doctors. They are able now to work as RNs on the weekends (which a couple of them do), which is nice, but I don't think it gave them a huge advantage over non-RN students.

When I was doing my pre-med coursework, I got my CNA and worked doing that - I think it still gave me the helpful side of patient interaction and already knowing how to do some basic things, but didn't require me to go to nursing school. It was a great way to work while gaining clinical experience, and had I wanted to, I probably could have kept working through med school. I think the CNA thing (or EMT) is a good way to go.

About the major: I was a music performance major and completely loved it. I think that as long as you ace your science and math courses (pre-med/pre-nursing prereqs) and bulk up your application with all the other necessary "hoops" (research, volunteering, clinical experience, etc.), you can major in anything you want. And furthermore, I felt it actually helped me because it made me stand out and made me unique against a large pool of science majors. Again, you'll get many opinions on this, but I felt that non-trad definitely helped (and did not hurt) me.

Good luck!

 

[deleted244469]

Thanks for all the responses so far! I forgot to state this in my original post. I am not trying to use Nursing as a possible "advantage" in the applications process for med school. Just wanted to add this if anyones opinions/thoughts were based on this.

 

[deleted244469]

You will probably get plenty of differing opinions here, so take them all with a grain of salt, but here's mine:

First of all, you're just going to nursing school to get beneficial experience for med school? Seems to me if med school is your long-term goal, skip nursing school and go straight for med. True, nursing will help you in the experience area, but I don't think it will truly help enough to make the extra time and money spent on school really worth it. Four of my classmates (in my med school class of 48) went to nursing school first, but only because they decided after becoming RNs that they wanted to be doctors. They are able now to work as RNs on the weekends (which a couple of them do), which is nice, but I don't think it gave them a huge advantage over non-RN students.

When I was doing my pre-med coursework, I got my CNA and worked doing that - I think it still gave me the helpful side of patient interaction and already knowing how to do some basic things, but didn't require me to go to nursing school. It was a great way to work while gaining clinical experience, and had I wanted to, I probably could have kept working through med school. I think the CNA thing (or EMT) is a good way to go.

About the major: I was a music performance major and completely loved it. I think that as long as you ace your science and math courses (pre-med/pre-nursing prereqs) and bulk up your application with all the other necessary "hoops" (research, volunteering, clinical experience, etc.), you can major in anything you want. And furthermore, I felt it actually helped me because it made me stand out and made me unique against a large pool of science majors. Again, you'll get many opinions on this, but I felt that non-trad definitely helped (and did not hurt) me.

Good luck!

Brrooother, Thanks for the response. Question though. Did you have any intention of doing anything with your major if the off chance Medicine did not work?

 

[bucks2010]

Change your major. Find one that helps you build your critical thinking skills more. They will serve you better than the nursing major long-term.

Also I recommend the CNA or EMT thing as another poster said, if you want to work in a clinical setting. As a CNA you will work heavily w/ nurses without having to go through 2 years of schooling for it.

 

[Brrooother]

Brrooother, Thanks for the response. Question though. Did you have any intention of doing anything with your major if the off chance Medicine did not work?

No, I actually started originally with music because I planned on either being a teacher or performer, but always had a nagging desire since I was a kid to become a doctor, so I decided to finish out my music degree but also do my pre-med coursework to apply to med school. So yeah, different from your situation, but I still feel in retrospect that it made me stand out.

Majoring in something different from the traditional pre-med/sciences is tough, as I should have said in my original post, as you have to work hard to do both the work for your major and for pre-med, which don't overlap as they do when you're more of a pre-med major (so, almost twice the work). This makes it tough to do in four years - being that I decided to pursue med later in undergrad, I took more than four, but if you work it out with an adviser and you're not too far along you could probably do it. Again though, it means you have two sets of requirements (for your major and for school post-undergrad) so it is challenging. There are many different ways to be successful at getting into med school; being a music major was helpful to me, I think, but may not be for everyone!

And by the way, people did ask if I did CNA because I was planning on Nursing School. I never planned on it being a "back-up" or anything, so I was just honest: I wanted to keep my options open in the beginning and see if I might like to pursue Nursing School, but decided I preferred medicine, and that I also thought it was a great way to gain exposure to the clinical side of things while also having an income (though I also had ample volunteer experience).

 

[Brrooother]

After re-reading your question about the off-chance of medicine not working out, I wanted to add one more thing: at this point, I'd major in something you like, do well in pre-med coursework, but not worry yet about medicine not working out. When I made the decision to switch, I knew I had to commit and give it 100% if I really wanted it to happen. If I didn't get in the first time, I'd build up my app and re-apply (luckily I didn't have to worry about this). Perhaps if I failed a second time to get in, I'd re-consider, but I absolutely didn't have a back-up plan when I decided to go for it. If you want to be a doctor, you work hard and you make it happen. There may be a time to re-consider, but that time is certainly not before you even apply a first time, IMO.

 

[Music MD]

I agree with above. You decide if its what you truly want, then you go for it. I would change majors to something you are truly interested in, but you must do well in whatever you choose to do. Also, don't be afraid of saying that you originally intended to become a nurse. There's nothing more sweet sounding than straight honesty.

 

[pfaction]

Do not change. If you don't get into med school, you can still be a nurse.

 

[bucks2010]

If you're going to plan on nursing as a "backup" and you enjoy it, at least make sure you enjoy it and shadow some nurses or something. I know maybe you're thinking ARNP or something as a 'backup' but I would make absolutely sure you can tolerate being an RN/med-surg or whatever (if I had to guess I'd say NP slots are competitive/limited and it would take time to qualify for it). Being on the floor administering meds, doing bathing/bedpans as needed, and calling discharge facilities is very very different from a physician's role. I, for one, would never consider RN as a backup. In fact I haven't given 'backups' any thought really, but if I had to choose I would probably go for dental, opto, or one of the other 'non-medical' professional doctorates. More independence/autonomy, more interesting stuff to do, more $, etc.

 

[Donald Juan]

This is exactly the reason you should not be doing this. The adcoms don't like to see this. At all. The nurses don't like this either, btw.

why does this annoys adcoms?

I have read on the interview pages that many, many people get asked the question, "if you don't get accepted into medical school, what do you plan on doing?" Are you telling me they would rather hear you say you're gonna go become a biology grad student? It really seems like the better candidate for doctor would be one that said, "well, I'm a certified nurse, I'm gonna go treat some freaking patients." As opposed to, "welp, I got a BS in biology, I guess I'll go to grad school and study genetically mutated fish."

I really don't get it, I could see nurses being offended, because they're number 2, but why doctors? Why not want someone working with you who was so dedicated to the field of medicine that they would do it in whatever capacity they could? I also say this, as a former medic in the military...I would go rejoin the military if I couldn't get into medical school because there I could keep working with patients and have a career in medicine, should I keep this a secret because I don't want to look like I have a backup plan that involves medicine?

 

[bucks2010]

why does this annoys adcoms?

I have read on the interview pages that many, many people get asked the question, "if you don't get accepted into medical school, what do you plan on doing?" Are you telling me they would rather hear you say you're gonna go become a biology grad student? It really seems like the better candidate for doctor would be one that said, "well, I'm a certified nurse, I'm gonna go treat some freaking patients." As opposed to, "welp, I got a BS in biology, I guess I'll go to grad school and study genetically mutated fish."

I really don't get it, I could see nurses being offended, because they're number 2, but why doctors? Why not want someone working with you who was so dedicated to the field of medicine that they would do it in whatever capacity they could? I also say this, as a former medic in the military...I would go rejoin the military if I couldn't get into medical school because there I could keep working with patients and have a career in medicine, should I keep this a secret because I don't want to look like I have a backup plan that involves medicine?

A biology BS is not as useless as you make it sound.

you can help patients in a higher-level capacity than an RN with a professional doctorate such as:
- dentistry
- optometry
- pharmacy
- PT
- OT
- psychology
- podiatry

All this with a B.S. in Biology, maybe some shadowing, and some time spent studying for a different standardized test.

edit: Additionally, if you still wanted to go the nursing route I bet you could go from B.S. in Biology -> RN -> BSN --- ???? --> ARNP/DNP in roughly the same academic/study time (nursing would prob take longer though b/c I think they have requirements for a certain # of clinical hrs before advancing to the next degree... I could be wrong)

So in the end it looks like you have more "backup" options from the lowly B.S. Biology than you do from an RN/BSN program.

 

[NVWolfPack]

I had the same idea about nursing initially. I was a CNA working my way through college. My gut tells me to continue this summer looking into the medical profession, look up courses you need for med school, volunteer at the VA or Hospital, and by the end of the summer...you will know what you need to do.

 

[yamaraja808]

why does this annoys adcoms?

I have read on the interview pages that many, many people get asked the question, "if you don't get accepted into medical school, what do you plan on doing?" Are you telling me they would rather hear you say you're gonna go become a biology grad student? It really seems like the better candidate for doctor would be one that said, "well, I'm a certified nurse, I'm gonna go treat some freaking patients." As opposed to, "welp, I got a BS in biology, I guess I'll go to grad school and study genetically mutated fish."

I really don't get it, I could see nurses being offended, because they're number 2, but why doctors? Why not want someone working with you who was so dedicated to the field of medicine that they would do it in whatever capacity they could? I also say this, as a former medic in the military...I would go rejoin the military if I couldn't get into medical school because there I could keep working with patients and have a career in medicine, should I keep this a secret because I don't want to look like I have a backup plan that involves medicine?

Yep.

If this is a back up plan, then it should be fine. OP could even say that you would like to be a Nurse Practitioner if you cannot get into medical school.

However, make sure if you are going for higher education (if not med school), to not directly go into masters. Nursing master programs may not like the fact that you applied to medical school and see the nursing masters as a back up. Try to take a year or two off from school once you graduate and then apply for a master (if this is a path you desire). This way it will look like you gave some thought about becoming a NP.

 

[pfaction]

A biology BS is not as useless as you make it sound.

you can help patients in a higher-level capacity than an RN with a professional doctorate such as:
- dentistry
- optometry
- pharmacy
- PT
- OT
- psychology
- podiatry

As a pharmacy student, be prepared to have 0 patient contact unless you're in community. If you want to round with MD's, you have to go for residency.

 

[NYRN]

I'm doing the same thing now, but I have already been a nurse for several years. My desire for medicine was always there, but I did not go into nursing to become a doctor.

If you havent even started the nursing program yet than by all means, change your major and go straight to medicine. You will be wasting a lot of time in a major that doesn't meet all the requirements that premed does, and trying to take hard sciences during the beginning of your nursing career is rough.

Yes, RN experience will look good to adcoms, but I'm assuming that they see years of dedicated nursing experience as better than someone who was only a nurse for a year before they started applying to med school. 1 year of nursing is just when you start to get your feet wet, you won't have learned much by then.

I agree with other posters who say that EMT or CNA is a good choice. These don't require a degree and you will get good patient exposure.

 

[45408]

If you know now that you want to be a doctor, don't go to nursing school.

 

[Silverfalcon]

why does this annoys adcoms?

I have read on the interview pages that many, many people get asked the question, "if you don't get accepted into medical school, what do you plan on doing?" Are you telling me they would rather hear you say you're gonna go become a biology grad student? It really seems like the better candidate for doctor would be one that said, "well, I'm a certified nurse, I'm gonna go treat some freaking patients." As opposed to, "welp, I got a BS in biology, I guess I'll go to grad school and study genetically mutated fish."

I really don't get it, I could see nurses being offended, because they're number 2, but why doctors? Why not want someone working with you who was so dedicated to the field of medicine that they would do it in whatever capacity they could? I also say this, as a former medic in the military...I would go rejoin the military if I couldn't get into medical school because there I could keep working with patients and have a career in medicine, should I keep this a secret because I don't want to look like I have a backup plan that involves medicine?

Because spending your years as a nurse doesn't mean you should get a leverage in medical school admission. In fact, those who major in "health professions" as stated by AAMC score lower in MCAT, and spending years as nurse doesn't mean you know what it feels like to be a doctor. Just shadow physicians - that's much better exposure if your goal is medical school.

There's also nothing wrong with BS in Biology. Not everyone is able to handle research, but you will be surprised - working in a lab may be more beneficial in admission game for some schools than working as a nurse.

 

[NYRN]

Because spending your years as a nurse doesn't mean you should get a leverage in medical school admission. In fact, those who major in "health professions" as stated by AAMC score lower in MCAT, and spending years as nurse doesn't mean you know what it feels like to be a doctor. Just shadow physicians - that's much better exposure if your goal is medical school.

There's also nothing wrong with BS in Biology. Not everyone is able to handle research, but you will be surprised - working in a lab may be more beneficial in admission game for some schools than working as a nurse.

I don't think anyone but a doctor knows what it feels like to be a doctor, whether its a nurse, student, whatever. I agree that nursing experience should not be a replacement for low grades/MCAT scores in order to gain admission to medical school, but I respectfully disagree with some of what you are saying. There is benefit to working side by side with physicians over a number of years and adcoms know this. Just because a nurse isn't working as a physician, they are aware of the role of the physician and of many of the challenges they face in real life practice on top of intense hands on patient experience. This experience should be in addition to a great academic record, not in leiu of when it comes to admission to medical school. I will venture a guess that the scores are lower for those in the health professions because either, they are working full time while taking classes and the grades suffer, OR they are banking on their experience to make up for lower scores. Its all about the attitude a former RN/PA/RT whatever takes when applying to schools. Myself and others with experience are hoping that our experience will help, but are NOT banking on it to get us in. That would be putting all our eggs in one basket, and that is never a good plan for anyone.

 

[deleted244469]

If you know now that you want to be a doctor, don't go to nursing school.

Prowler, I see you are a resident. Care to elaborate why you specifically don't like this idea?

 

[Velocity]

I have read on the interview pages that many, many people get asked the question, "if you don't get accepted into medical school, what do you plan on doing?" Are you telling me they would rather hear you say you're gonna go become a biology grad student?

For your reference, the correct answer to this question at present is "retake the MCATs, retake courses to raise my grades, do research, do more volunteering, and apply again." (Not necessarily all of those, but basically, filling in possible weaknesses in your application and staying focused on medicine.) Does it seem slightly impractical and very narrow-minded? Yup, and perhaps there are some admission committee members out there who would disapprove of such an answer, but I've heard it straight from others that they're specifically looking for that answer.

Kovalchuk, I don't know how an admission committee member would regard someone with a background in nursing. As with all courses of study, some will probably look down on it, while others will find it interesting and/or beneficial. My opinion is that you shouldn't try to play it safe with this one. If the nursing program will potentially harm your grades, and if you really want to do medicine, then don't do nursing. Do everything possible to make your application perfect for medical school.

What happens if you don't get in? That's the greatest challenge of the pre-medical process, in my opinion. If medicine is what you really want to do, then you will find something temporary to do, and try again. If you're straddling two options, you likely won't have the resolve to continue pursuing medicine if and when the going gets tough like that. Will you feel badly about throwing in the towel? If you wouldn't be fazed by a 100% rejection rate, then do you really care to get into medical school, and will you have the resolve? If not, then why try at all?

The point is to try and figure out what it is you want to do. Decide, and then do it. Unfortunately, these fields are so competitive that only those who are lucky, supremely talented, or working with single-minded fury seem able to reach success.

You also didn't mention what the other major that you're considering is (or did I miss it?). Who knows - it may offer you more versatility than you realize... but again, if medicine is the end goal, then you shouldn't be worrying about what options that major leads into.

 

[gravitywave]

applying with a nursing education, but zero nursing work experience handicaps you in the following ways:

1) impaired focus on medicine. the above posted comments about the 'correct answer' to the "what will you do if you don't get in?" are right on the mark. saying "oh well i'll just go to my backup plan: nursing!" is a major no-no because it suggests you are not 100% committed to medicine. also, what guarantee can you give that you will take your medical degree and actually use it as a clinician? after all, you already have a track record of taking professional degrees with no intention of using the skills. it reflects poorly on your motivations.

2) it trains you in a profession that you will never use. this may not sound so bad, but in truth there are many commitments you will have to make as a nursing student that will take away from your pre-medicine efforts, hurting your application. nursing student clinicals are a huge time commitment that will not benefit you in any way; you'll still have to make time for volunteering, extra-curriculars, research if you want it. the nursing training will be a big distraction.

3) educational focus: med schools like to see people taking lots of different types of courses. as a professional degree, nursing leaves almost no time for electives at most programs, you will not appear as well-rounded a student. also, the grading curves at many nursing programs are very aggressive, particularly during the clinical time: it may be difficult to maintain a GPA competitive for med school. also, the basic science courses in a nursing curriculum are often not the same ones appropriate for pre-med.

so, it's not so much that adcoms 'look down' on a nursing degree (although there are some that do), it just makes your life more complicated than if you just went ahead and did medicine to begin with. it's not worth it.

if your plan is to work for a few years as an RN and then make a choice about NP vs MD, then the calculus is quite different. but it doesn't sound like that's what you want.

 

[deleted244469]

You also didn't mention what the other major that you're considering is (or did I miss it?). Who knows - it may offer you more versatility than you realize... but again, if medicine is the end goal, then you shouldn't be worrying about what options that major leads into.

Looking to major in Child Development and Family Relations- Specifically Child Life. Still a hospital job, but instead I work with terminally sick children.

 

[Myuu]

why does this annoys adcoms?

Why? Because the OP wants to go into medicine and is taking nursing classes in a misguided attempt to improve an application.

There's a nursing shortage on too, you know. Why take a spot in a professional school away from someone who will actually pursue the profession when you yourself have no interest in it? What does that say about you as an individual?

 

[sc4s2cg]

You are basically going down the road I was planning out for myself when I was 18 (three years ago).

My plan was:

• Nursing + Psych minor during the school year, basic premed courses over the summer
• Graduate with at least a 3.6-3.7 with my BSN, take the NCLEX, maybe work for a year or two, then apply for med school.

How it actually turned out:

• Basic premed courses over the summer (Gen Chem I+II, with labs; Ochem I+II, with lab I only; I took Physics I with lab last semester, and finishing Physics II with lab this semester. The biologies were mostly taken care of during my Nursing and Prenursing years). Grades: A's, A-'s, B's.
• Psych minor during the year. Grades: A's.
• Nursing major during the year. Grades: C, D, B (retaken D), C, C.
• Get a cGPA of 3.2, sGPA of 3.4. Nursing classes really brought my GPA down. I switched from Nursing to Exercise Science (and maybe double major in Psychology) over this winter break, I was in Nursing for 2-2.5 years.

So my recommendation:

• DON'T DO NURSING if you're planning on going to medical school eventually. Why?
  • You will, with a 90% guestimated chance, lower your GPA. I started with a 3.7-3.8 pre-nursing. After I got accepted it went lower and lower, to where I'm standing at right now. 3.22. Every nursing student I know, accept the accelerated students ironically enough, are struggling with the material. Those that don't are usually former nursing assistants, had a previous bachelors, etc.
  • You will burn yourself out. Basically the only break you get from studying is Spring Break and Winter Break. Especially if your program goes like ours, and you have two nursing classes per semester (5 and 4 credits each) with one class the first and the other class during the second half of the semester.
  • You can get the experience without going to nursing school by getting a job as an STNA (student nursing assistant), etc. at a hospital or nursing home.
  • If you are science minded, and you know it, then you will not do well in nursing. This was my problem, I didn't know I was thinking "too scientifically". They will taught us all about diverticulitis, Chron's disease, heart disease, etc. etc. and I enjoyed it so much. Unfortunately, nursing is not about how the patient got the disease, what you can do to cure the disease, the pathology of the disease. Instead, there's the pathology that the professors expect you to know and understand before class started. During class we were taught what to do in the case of complications of the disease, what to do if the doctor orders this, this and this, how to triple check meds, how to clean IV's. If you know you're going to be a doctor, you will find this very, very tedious. I can't tell you how incredibly frustrating it was to give pain meds when I knew that's not curing the disease, to check for clots and blockage in the IV, to assess for phlebitis, etc. when I knew this isn't helping the patient.
    • Note: that was my view at the time. Everything above is absolutely necessary for the patient to get better. But that's not how I viewed it.
• Make sure you absolutely know you want to go to medical school. If you're a doctor at heart, then don't take nursing. If you're a nurse at heart, then don't apply for med school. You will get frustrated at both routes if not.

And that's it. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[I modified this post a little bit from this thread]

ETA: I disagree with the poster who said that the clinicals won't give you anything. I now have around 300 clinical hours of experience at a hospital. I've seen and done things that other premed students have never had the opportunity to do. I've taken daily and even twice daily full head-to-toe assessments. I've used the pulse-ox, BP, temp machines. I've cleaned butts and penises. I've cleaned and applied stoma bags. I've seen surgeries (total knee replacement, hip replacement, cancerous lump removal from the bum, the creation of a stoma, removal of the small intestines). I've been at retirement centers where I did everything from bathing and giving meds, to counseling and explaining diseases. And of course, I've had numerous contact with doctors, nurses, social workers, and all kinds of interesting patients. That said, you can do all this (with the exception of some, assessments and vitals) as a premed student if you are willing to put in the effort to find the right opportunities so I would not go to nursing just for the experience. The bad GPA, the lack of time, the extra premed courses all outweigh the benefits.
ETA2: You can go BSN -> NP. NP's do everything that doctors do, with the exception of surgery. NP's are also specialized, so you can specialize in pediatrics, surgery (ironically enough..), gero, neuro, etc.
ETA3: Should of read the thread beforehand. Brrooother has the best idea. :thumbsup:

 

[deleted244469]

You are basically going down the road I was planning out for myself when I was 18 (three years ago).

My plan was:

• Nursing + Psych minor during the school year, basic premed courses over the summer
• Graduate with at least a 3.6-3.7 with my BSN, take the NCLEX, maybe work for a year or two, then apply for med school.

How it actually turned out:

• Basic premed courses over the summer (Gen Chem I+II, with labs; Ochem I+II, with lab I only; I took Physics I with lab last semester, and finishing Physics II with lab this semester. The biologies were mostly taken care of during my Nursing and Prenursing years). Grades: A's, A-'s, B's.
• Psych minor during the year. Grades: A's.
• Nursing major during the year. Grades: C, D, B (retaken D), C, C.
• Get a cGPA of 3.2, sGPA of 3.4. Nursing classes really brought my GPA down. I switched from Nursing to Exercise Science (and maybe double major in Psychology) over this winter break, I was in Nursing for 2-2.5 years.

So my recommendation:

• DON'T DO NURSING if you're planning on going to medical school eventually. Why?
  • You will, with a 90% guestimated chance, lower your GPA. I started with a 3.7-3.8 pre-nursing. After I got accepted it went lower and lower, to where I'm standing at right now. 3.22. Every nursing student I know, accept the accelerated students ironically enough, are struggling with the material. Those that don't are usually former nursing assistants, had a previous bachelors, etc.
  • You will burn yourself out. Basically the only break you get from studying is Spring Break and Winter Break. Especially if your program goes like ours, and you have two nursing classes per semester (5 and 4 credits each) with one class the first and the other class during the second half of the semester.
  • You can get the experience without going to nursing school by getting a job as an STNA (student nursing assistant), etc. at a hospital or nursing home.
  • If you are science minded, and you know it, then you will not do well in nursing. This was my problem, I didn't know I was thinking "too scientifically". They will taught us all about diverticulitis, Chron's disease, heart disease, etc. etc. and I enjoyed it so much. Unfortunately, nursing is not about how the patient got the disease, what you can do to cure the disease, the pathology of the disease. Instead, there's the pathology that the professors expect you to know and understand before class started. During class we were taught what to do in the case of complications of the disease, what to do if the doctor orders this, this and this, how to triple check meds, how to clean IV's. If you know you're going to be a doctor, you will find this very, very tedious. I can't tell you how incredibly frustrating it was to give pain meds when I knew that's not curing the disease, to check for clots and blockage in the IV, to assess for phlebitis, etc. when I knew this isn't helping the patient.
    • Note: that was my view at the time. Everything above is absolutely necessary for the patient to get better. But that's not how I viewed it.
• Make sure you absolutely know you want to go to medical school. If you're a doctor at heart, then don't take nursing. If you're a nurse at heart, then don't apply for med school. You will get frustrated at both routes if not.

And that's it. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[I modified this post a little bit from this thread]

ETA: I disagree with the poster who said that the clinicals won't give you anything. I now have around 300 clinical hours of experience at a hospital. I've seen and done things that other premed students have never had the opportunity to do. I've taken daily and even twice daily full head-to-toe assessments. I've used the pulse-ox, BP, temp machines. I've cleaned butts and penises. I've cleaned and applied stoma bags. I've seen surgeries (total knee replacement, hip replacement, cancerous lump removal from the bum, the creation of a stoma, removal of the small intestines). I've been at retirement centers where I did everything from bathing and giving meds, to counseling and explaining diseases. And of course, I've had numerous contact with doctors, nurses, social workers, and all kinds of interesting patients. That said, you can do all this (with the exception of some, assessments and vitals) as a premed student if you are willing to put in the effort to find the right opportunities so I would not go to nursing just for the experience. The bad GPA, the lack of time, the extra premed courses all outweigh the benefits.
ETA2: You can go BSN -> NP. NP's do everything that doctors do, with the exception of surgery. NP's are also specialized, so you can specialize in pediatrics, surgery (ironically enough..), gero, neuro, etc.
ETA3: Should of read the thread beforehand. Brrooother has the best idea. :thumbsup:

^^^WOW Thank you so much. This post was extremely informative. I was waiting to get a perspective from someone who had the same idea as me.

 

[sc4s2cg]

No problem. My pm box is always open if you have any other questions.

Keep us updated on what you eventually decided!

 

[pfaction]

Because spending your years as a nurse doesn't mean you should get a leverage in medical school admission. In fact, those who major in "health professions" as stated by AAMC score lower in MCAT,

So me taking the MCAT and getting a 29 as a Pharmacist means

the pre-med who has no f---ing idea about anything medical at all with a 35 MCAT will do better in med school? Or be handle it as well/better?



H I L A R I O U S.

 

[gettheleadout]

NP's do not "do everything that doctors do except surgery."

Also, while the assumption that a higher MCAT = a better doctor is obviously faulty, current medical skill is irrelevant in admission because everyone will be trained to be a competent physician in medical school, and no one entering has worked as a physician before. Prior medical skill/exposure indicates an understanding of the clinical setting, and will likely play into one's motivation for pursuing medical school, but is not an advantage over applicants who haven't placed IV's and Foley's.

 

[Astarael]

So me taking the MCAT and getting a 29 as a Pharmacist means

the pre-med who has no f---ing idea about anything medical at all with a 35 MCAT will do better in med school? Or be handle it as well/better?



H I L A R I O U S.

So... Cool post.

Who cares about who will make the better medical student? The question was about admissions, and the person with a 35 will have a much higher chance of being admitted than the person with a 29... You can even look it up at the AAMC's website.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

I was doing the same thing as you. Actually i was accepted to nursing school and then decided to become a doctor after working as a tech. I eventually switched to a biology degree because i thought it would better prepare me for the MCAT. Now that im taking biology electives i like ( biology of forensics) its pretty fun. Also, im especially glad i did now that im studying for the MCAT.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

To be honest, i made this same thread 2 years ago lol

 

[Astarael]

To be honest, i made this same thread 2 years ago lol

It gets discussed a lot, I guess.

To the OP, this brings up a good point. You're not the first person to have this idea, and there is a huge amount of information buried in this forum about the nursing to medicine path, if you care to go digging for it. If not, gravitywave's post is a good summary of the issues you'll face with admissions, and sc4s2cg's mammoth post is a good analysis of how it will affect you in the short run.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I work as a CNA around a lot of nurses. Once a VERY experienced nurse told me, when I discussed applying to medical school, that you couldn't pay her to become an MD. Well, you couldn't pay me to become an RN! Both nurses and physicians are in the field of health care, but their roles are vastly different. I don't know that you could equally enjoy both. So I would advise against going to nursing school as a pre-med. You can easily get clinical experience in another job or volunteer position.

 

[LizzyM]

So me taking the MCAT and getting a 29 as a Pharmacist means

the pre-med who has no f---ing idea about anything medical at all with a 35 MCAT will do better in med school? Or be handle it as well/better?



H I L A R I O U S.

No but that pre-med is more likely to be admitted to medical school and as a group the med students with MCAT = 35 have better board scores than the med students with MCAT = 29 although both are equally likely to pass the boards and equally likely to finish med school in 4 yrs.

 

[bucks2010]

i work as a cna around a lot of nurses. Once a very experienced nurse told me, when i discussed applying to medical school, that you couldn't pay her to become an md. Well, you couldn't pay me to become an rn! Both nurses and physicians are in the field of health care, but their roles are vastly different. I don't know that you could equally enjoy both. So i would advise against going to nursing school as a pre-med. You can easily get clinical experience in another job or volunteer position.

+1

 

[RogueUnicorn]

If you are science minded, and you know it, then you will not do well in nursing.

truer words have never been spoken.

There's a nursing shortage on too, you know. Why take a spot in a professional school away from someone who will actually pursue the profession when you yourself have no interest in it?

this is an argument that is constantly thrown around, and imo it's just inane. first of all, the nursing shortage is over in places people actually want to work in. the markets in the northeast and the west coast are now saturated, and supply actually exceeds demand. the locations with nursing shortages are the same places with physician shortages, and guess what, it's because people just don't want to live and work there. secondly, the main barrier to maintaining the nursing work force is retention, not training. there is no shortage of RN training spots. period. you're not taking anyone else's spot, there are more than enough to go around. the biggest problem is that the field has high burnout and many nurses have children and never return.

So me taking the MCAT and getting a 29 as a Pharmacist means

the pre-med who has no f---ing idea about anything medical at all with a 35 MCAT will do better in med school? Or be handle it as well/better?



H I L A R I O U S.

because a wannabe 'pharmacist' means you're going to do better in med school? or handle it as well/better?

 

[NYRN]

truer words have never been spoken.


this is an argument that is constantly thrown around, and imo it's just inane. first of all, the nursing shortage is over in places people actually want to work in. the markets in the northeast and the west coast are now saturated, and supply actually exceeds demand. the locations with nursing shortages are the same places with physician shortages, and guess what, it's because people just don't want to live and work there. secondly, the main barrier to maintaining the nursing work force is retention, not training. there is no shortage of RN training spots. period. you're not taking anyone else's spot, there are more than enough to go around. the biggest problem is that the field has high burnout and many nurses have children and never return.

Your statement regarding the nursing shortage is partially true, but not needing a science background for nursing is false. I took the same upper level inorganic chem, biology and A+P class as the premeds did. I did not have to take organic or physics so I am taking those classes now. You DO need a science background to succeed in nursing, pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc require you to understand biology, anatomy and physiology and chemistry. I don't know how anyone who hasn't actually taken a particular class can attest to what is included in it and how difficult it is, whether it be nursing or any other class. Nursing classes don't get as involved as medical school classes, but they do go into some depth.

The nursing shortage is over, not because there are enough nurses to take care of patients, its because the hospitals are also losing $ in this economy and they are cutting nurses out. There is no shortage of patients that's for sure. There are still long waiting lists to get into nursing school, as the job market flucuates every few years. There are no jobs now but in 2 years they will be hiring again like crazy. I don't know anyone in this day and age with the cost of living that has kids and stays home, but I suppose it happens if the other spouse can afford it.

As far as the OP goes, if I was in your position and you really don't want to be a nurse, then don't finish nursing school. You will be wasting your time. Finish up the prereqs and apply. I have worked with a few docs who were nurses first and although they didn't feel that the nursing classes made med school classes easy, it did help with 3rd year rotations because they were already familiar with patient interaction and how a hospital runs. That being said, they were nurses for a few years before returning to med school so the experience is really what made the difference.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Your statement regarding the nursing shortage is partially true, but not needing a science background for nursing is false. I took the same upper level inorganic chem, biology and A+P class as the premeds did. I did not have to take organic or physics so I am taking those classes now. You DO need a science background to succeed in nursing, pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc require you to understand biology, anatomy and physiology and chemistry. I don't know how anyone who hasn't actually taken a particular class can attest to what is included in it and how difficult it is, whether it be nursing or any other class. Nursing classes don't get as involved as medical school classes, but they do go into some depth.

The nursing shortage is over, not because there are enough nurses to take care of patients, its because the hospitals are also losing $ in this economy and they are cutting nurses out. There is no shortage of patients that's for sure. There are still long waiting lists to get into nursing school, as the job market flucuates every few years. There are no jobs now but in 2 years they will be hiring again like crazy. I don't know anyone in this day and age with the cost of living that has kids and stays home, but I suppose it happens if the other spouse can afford it.

As far as the OP goes, if I was in your position and you really don't want to be a nurse, then don't finish nursing school. You will be wasting your time. Finish up the prereqs and apply. I have worked with a few docs who were nurses first and although they didn't feel that the nursing classes made med school classes easy, it did help with 3rd year rotations because they were already familiar with patient interaction and how a hospital runs. That being said, they were nurses for a few years before returning to med school so the experience is really what made the difference.

first of all, the science thing wasn't my statement, but i agree with it. note that it wasn't saying you don't need a science background, which would be false. what it referred to was the mindset and approach, that nursing is not a discipline for the science-minded. this remains true. from the moment you step into a patient's room, a nurse's thought process is drastically different than that of a physician. i don't claim one to be better than the other, but one is certainly more scientific. no physician diagnosis, for example, will ever be "altered energy field."

what the nursing shortage is or isn't is somewhat marred by politics. for example, if a ton of CNAs are hired to help the RN staff, that hiring is often ignored when determining shortage. but i think it's fair to say, from a practical standpoint, the only meaningful discussion should be the availability of jobs. and when this availability is low, then there is ipso facto no shortage. i also don't know what area you're in, but in the ones i'm familiar with, getting into a nursing program, whether it be a CC, BSN, or accelerated post-bac track, is not at all difficult. they even advertise. re: kids and returning to work, often those that do return to work do so only on a part time basis.

finally, i'd kindly ask that you not make assumptions of what classes others may have taken.

 

[StudyShy]

The nursing shortage is over in Michigan. You can't even get an arse-wiping job here anymore. There a new grads who have double majored in nursing and biology who are just happy to land jobs at nursing homes.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

what the nursing shortage is or isn't is somewhat marred by politics. for example, if a ton of CNAs are hired to help the RN staff, that hiring is often ignored when determining shortage.

Haha, not where I work. There aren't enough nurses or CNAs. NYRN is right that any lack of nursing shortage is due to hospitals decreasing the number of staff they hire. There are more patients than ever. Also, most hospitals are in need of experienced nurses, but it's very difficult to get hired as a new grad. It takes a lot of money and time to train a new nurse, and there are fewer and fewer hospitals who are willing to put in the resources to hire a new grad.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Haha, not where I work. There aren't enough nurses or CNAs. NYRN is right that any lack of nursing shortage is due to hospitals decreasing the number of staff they hire. There are more patients than ever. Also, most hospitals are in need of experienced nurses, but it's very difficult to get hired as a new grad. It takes a lot of money and time to train a new nurse, and there are fewer and fewer hospitals who are willing to put in the resources to hire a new grad.

very true, which is why the issue isn't training but retaining the nurses that are already trained.

 

[StudyShy]

Haha, not where I work. There aren't enough nurses or CNAs. NYRN is right that any lack of nursing shortage is due to hospitals decreasing the number of staff they hire. There are more patients than ever. Also, most hospitals are in need of experienced nurses, but it's very difficult to get hired as a new grad. It takes a lot of money and time to train a new nurse, and there are fewer and fewer hospitals who are willing to put in the resources to hire a new grad.

I see this. We do have more patients than before, but the hospitals have hiring freezes.

 

[NYRN]

first of all, the science thing wasn't my statement, but i agree with it. note that it wasn't saying you don't need a science background, which would be false. what it referred to was the mindset and approach, that nursing is not a discipline for the science-minded. this remains true. from the moment you step into a patient's room, a nurse's thought process is drastically different than that of a physician. i don't claim one to be better than the other, but one is certainly more scientific. no physician diagnosis, for example, will ever be "altered energy field."

what the nursing shortage is or isn't is somewhat marred by politics. for example, if a ton of CNAs are hired to help the RN staff, that hiring is often ignored when determining shortage. but i think it's fair to say, from a practical standpoint, the only meaningful discussion should be the availability of jobs. and when this availability is low, then there is ipso facto no shortage. i also don't know what area you're in, but in the ones i'm familiar with, getting into a nursing program, whether it be a CC, BSN, or accelerated post-bac track, is not at all difficult. they even advertise. re: kids and returning to work, often those that do return to work do so only on a part time basis.

finally, i'd kindly ask that you not make assumptions of what classes others may have taken.

I'm not making assumptions about anything and I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just saying that people on this board really don't understand nursing because they aren't working with nurses for real yet. One day the premeds on here will appreciate us I also don't see how saying a premed takes inorganic chem and bio is making assumptions, I know they are required prereqs as does everyone else .
There is no question that a nurse and a physician think differently, but its unrealistic to say that certain things like don't overlap at some point and we both don't think of the same things when we are seeing the patient. The physicians rely on us to assess patients and use clinical judgement when they aren't there. On these boards its made out to be that nurses don't think and don't make any decisions. In reality, the nurses and physicians work together as a team, and they do appreciate all that we do. I have never used a nursing diagnosis ever in my career. Nobody does, they aren't needed.

Maybe nursing school has changed in certain areas, but I know there is still a waiting list for schools here, and when I applied you needed a 3.4 minimum to get accepted. Not all schools are created equal, just like not all med schools are.

In a few years we will all be on the same team anyway, as clueless medical students!!

 

[deleted244469]

Forgot to thank everyone in this thread for helping me come to a decision. I ended up changing my major. Looking forward to a challenging semester . I changed it after Junior year, but had over 60% of the pre-reqs done through my nursing major, so I am just a little behind.

 

[StudyShy]

Forgot to thank everyone in this thread for helping me come to a decision. I ended up changing my major. Looking forward to a challenging semester . I changed it after Junior year, but had over 60% of the pre-reqs done through my nursing major, so I am just a little behind.

Good luck!

 

[sc4s2cg]

first of all, the science thing wasn't my statement, but i agree with it. note that it wasn't saying you don't need a science background, which would be false. what it referred to was the mindset and approach, that nursing is not a discipline for the science-minded. this remains true. from the moment you step into a patient's room, a nurse's thought process is drastically different than that of a physician. i don't claim one to be better than the other, but one is certainly more scientific. no physician diagnosis, for example, will ever be "altered energy field."

Hi,

Just wanted to say, a nursing diagnosis of "altered energy field" would mean that the nurse went to some specialty school. That type of stuff, along with other "alternative medicines", is mentioned only in passing in (at least my) nursing school.

Let me clarify the nurse v. physician process. At least, according to what I learned in nursing school and what I've experienced with doctors during my time talking with them, meeting them, and limited time shadowing them.

• Patient comes in after a major operation. Let's he got a new stoma. Patient is complaining of pain after the surgery.
  • Nurse: Ok, he is in pain. Let's splint him, make sure pain meds are on time, assess pain every hour until the end of shift. Try to distract using television, talking to him as well when I'm visiting his roomate for the routine bedpan/catheter check. This is normal after an operation. On to the next patient.
  • Doctor: This is normal after an operation. I need to prescribe blablah, given every 4 hours for the next two days. If there are any changes in quality, etc. nurse needs to notify me. If pain persists past blah days, this may be a sign of blah and further investigation may be needed. On to the next patient.

So they think similarly, but differently. Both have the patient's best interest in mind. Both are concerned with alleviating the pain and the causes, what might go wrong, whether its normal, etc. But the nurse is more worried about the former, while the doctor about the latter.

Forgot to thank everyone in this thread for helping me come to a decision. I ended up changing my major. Looking forward to a challenging semester . I changed it after Junior year, but had over 60% of the pre-reqs done through my nursing major, so I am just a little behind.

Glad we could help and good luck to you!

 

[NYRN]

Forgot to thank everyone in this thread for helping me come to a decision. I ended up changing my major. Looking forward to a challenging semester . I changed it after Junior year, but had over 60% of the pre-reqs done through my nursing major, so I am just a little behind.

Awesome! One step at a time, you will get there! Did you ever sign up for a summer class or are you actually going to enjoy your summer unlike the rest of us stuck in school