Nursing White Coat Ceremony?

[GinnyWeasley]

Not trying to start any argument against nursing or anything, but one of my good friends just had her white coat ceremony at the nursing school where she's going for her BSN. I know most therapy students and PAs do this as well. Is this a new thing for a bachelors in nursing? I've never heard of BSN students having a white coat. Sometimes I feel bad for patients as they probably see most of the staff wearing white coats and have no idea if the person is the PT, nurse, PA, doctor etc lol. Just curious.

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[LizzyM]

It used to be that nurses wore starched white caps and receiving the cap was a milestone in school as was receiving the ribbon that indicated that the nurse had graduated. For some there was a pin on the cap as well. I haven't seen a cap in 25 years so it is no surprise that coats are filling the vacuum.

Why feel sorry for the patients? The staffers should be introducing themselves to patients so that they are aware of who is caring for them.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

they should make it the fanny pack ceremony instead

 

[Lawpy]

they should make it the fanny pack ceremony instead

out of curiosity, do you think the white coat has any value currently in medicine? or is it just mainly tradition?

 

[GinnyWeasley]

It used to be that nurses wore starched white caps and receiving the cap was a milestone in school as was receiving the ribbon that indicated that the nurse had graduated. For some there was a pin on the cap as well. I haven't seen a cap in 25 years so it is no surprise that coats are filling the vacuum.

Why feel sorry for the patients? The staffers should be introducing themselves to patients so that they are aware of who is caring for them.

Ok thanks! And yeah I know they should be introducing themselves. But having been a patient in a hospital before, so many people introduced themselves to me that I couldn't tell you who anyone was. Luckily only the doctors wore white coats so I was able to identify the rest of the staff by the different colors of their scrubs.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

out of curiosity, do you think the white coat has any value currently in medicine? or is it just mainly tradition?

I'm an ortho resident, traditionally the field isn't big on the white coat for whatever reason. In truth I don't wear it much either, since running around the medical center complex (often literally) seeing 30 consults a day means most of my colleagues stay as light as possible. Still, personally, I think it's an important symbol of medicine, instills trust (or distance, depending on your perspective) in patients and I a lot see value in it. But that's just my opinion, the value of which is highly questionable. Why do you ask?

 

[Lawpy]

I'm an ortho resident, traditionally the field isn't big on the white coat for whatever reason. In truth I don't wear it much either, since running around the medical center complex (often literally) seeing 30 consults a day means most of my colleagues stay as light as possible. Still, personally, I think it's an important symbol of medicine, instills trust (or distance, depending on your perspective) in patients and I a lot see value in it. But that's just my opinion, the value of which is highly questionable. Why do you ask?

Ok thanks! That's good to hear. I just felt that the white coat is being degraded and devalued for various reasons (mainly upon reading some frustrations in allo + clinical forums). With other health professions wearing white coats, I just felt that there wasn't any unique value for the white coat, and it's just being worn out of tradition.

I'm probably wrong, but just what I felt.

 

[raiderette]

There have been numerous studies showing that the coats are germ magnets and can help spread disease among patients. I hope I don't have to wear one every day as an attending.

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[Promethean]

Physicians stole lab coats from scientists. Now get uppity about other professions doing the same thing. LOL.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

There have been numerous studies showing that the coats are germ magnets and can help spread disease among patients. I hope I don't have to wear one every day as an attending.

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Fold up your sleeves.

Physicians stole lab coats from scientists. Now get uppity about other professions doing the same thing. LOL.

We didn't "steal" the coat, the notion is that we're supposed to be scientists. Some of us are better at that than others; all of us are better at it than nurses.

 

[LilKangaroo]

I usually don't see nursing students with white coats. They tend to have fancy scrubs that I'm really jealous of...
Also, the pharmacy students at my school get LONG white coats. So jealous.
Grass is always greener. =P

Anyway, I guess I don't really care either way. I haven't heard of it before, but I don't think it changes anything. In the end, most med students end up hating their white coats, so if nursing students want it, that's cool with me.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Physicians stole lab coats from scientists. Now get uppity about other professions doing the same thing. LOL.

I'm not uppity haha. I just genuinely had a question about if bachelors nursing students had a white coat ceremony. I knew that Nurse Practitioners do and so do PAs. Just curious lol

I usually don't see nursing students with white coats. They tend to have fancy scrubs that I'm really jealous of...
Also, the pharmacy students at my school get LONG white coats. So jealous.
Grass is always greener. =P

Anyway, I guess I don't really care either way. I haven't heard of it before, but I don't think it changes anything. In the end, most med students end up hating their white coats, so if nursing students want it, that's cool with me.

Same here! I never heard of that before either haha. I would assume most people with white coats don't wear it all the time.

 

[Ho0v-man]

My old school had respiratory therapy, nursing, radiography, paramedic, physical therapy assistant, and some other stuff I'm probably forgetting. I don't know about having an official ceremony, but they all wore white coats while in their clinical rotations.

Contrary to popular belief on SDN, they aren't all saying "lol we're just like doctors, we've even got the coats roflcopter." It's something enforced by the program to appear "professional ". It's stupid but you have to put up with it. Most students hate them. The few people that continue to wear them after graduation are probably doing so because they keep a lot of random things on hand and/or are just trying to stay warm in the cold hospital.

No one's putting these things on in the morning, looking in the mirror and saying "God I hope someone thinks I'm a doctor today!"

PAs and NPs probably wear them so those few random patients don't think their in the room to take their lunch order. I would too, personally.

Pharmacists are at the top of their field and not after your job. No one cares what they wear.

Never seen a DPT/OT wear a white coat.


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[Pusheen]

I work a tech-type job at a hospital and have to wear a white coat as part of my uniform because it has the company logo on it. Doctors usually wear regular clothes or aqua scrubs. Tbh, it really bugs me, I don't see the point of wearing what most people consider scientist/doctor attire.

 

[Hospitalized]

This is really the same as naturopaths, chiropractors, etc. calling themselves doctors. There's always going to be people who want the allure of being a doctor but want no business actually doing the work to become one.

I'm not a huge fan of the white coat. I find the most personal doctors (ER standpoint here) are the ones who wear pretty ordinary clothes in to the ER. In fact, the most impersonal doctor I know is one of the only ones who wears the white coat. Sample bias, etc. Personally, I'll take a doctor wearing regular pants and a scrub top over the doc coming in with dress clothes and a white coat any day. The real essence of a physician is in their communication and practice, not what they wear.

 

[Hospitalized]

My old school had respiratory therapy, nursing, radiography, paramedic, physical therapy assistant, and some other stuff I'm probably forgetting. I don't know about having an official ceremony, but they all wore white coats while in their clinical rotations.

Contrary to popular belief on SDN, they aren't all saying "lol we're just like doctors, we've even got the coats roflcopter." It's something enforced by the program to appear "professional ". It's stupid but you have to put up with it. Most students hate them. The few people that continue to wear them after graduation are probably doing so because they keep a lot of random things on hand and/or are just trying to stay warm in the cold hospital.

No one's putting these things on in the morning, looking in the mirror and saying "God I hope someone thinks I'm a doctor today!"

PAs and NPs probably wear them so those few random patients don't think their in the room to take their lunch order. I would too, personally.

Pharmacists are at the top of their field and not after your job. No one cares what they wear.

Never seen a DPT/OT wear a white coat.


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Really? I've witnessed this quite a bit. I had a professor at my college who taught intro bio, was a naturopath. Came in wearing a white coat that said "Dr. x" every day.

 

[Pusheen]

taught intro bio, was a naturopath.

😕😕😕

 

[popopopop]

Everything nurse related on sdn ends up talking about nurses wanting to be doctors and having a chip on their shoulders.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Really? I've witnessed this quite a bit. I had a professor at my college who taught intro bio, was a naturopath. Came in wearing a white coat that said "Dr. x" every day.

Should clarify. Anyone in the hospital that has a real degree.


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[darkjedi]

As an EM resident the only time I've put on my white coat so far was when I got it, to see if it fit.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Everything nurse related on sdn ends up talking about nurses wanting to be doctors and having a chip on their shoulders.

Just for the record, like I stated initially, I don't have a problem with any field having a white coat ceremony. And I for sure don't think that nurses have a chip on their shoulders. I simply wanted to know if the white coat ceremony for BSNs was common or a rather new thing.

 

[Promethean]

Fold up your sleeves.

We didn't "steal" the coat, the notion is that we're supposed to be scientists. Some of us are better at that than others; all of us are better at it than nurses.

Physicians apply science, and so do nurses. Some physicians have actually done some bench science. Some never have and never will. Also, some nurses have done bench science research.

I'm sorry to see that you need to denigrate another profession in order to feel proud of your own. It doesn't do you the credit that you may think it does.

 

[Kgizzle]

Just for the record, like I stated initially, I don't have a problem with any field having a white coat ceremony. And I for sure don't think that nurses have a chip on their shoulders. I simply wanted to know if the white coat ceremony for BSNs was common or a rather new thing.

It's the Internet... this is always what happens and there is nothing that you can do about it... one cannot simply ask why nurses are doing doctor things... it will always go down this path

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Physicians apply science, and so do nurses.

Yea? How?

Some physicians have actually done some bench science. Some never have and never will. Also, some nurses have done bench science research.

Your false equivalence of science with bench science is concerning.

I'm sorry to see that you need to denigrate another profession in order to feel proud of your own. It doesn't do you the credit that you may think it does.

You see denigration in a statement of facts. Take a step back, take a deep breath, sit the hell down, and earn a degree before you start talking about the profession.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My old school had respiratory therapy, nursing, radiography, paramedic, physical therapy assistant, and some other stuff I'm probably forgetting. I don't know about having an official ceremony, but they all wore white coats while in their clinical rotations.

Contrary to popular belief on SDN, they aren't all saying "lol we're just like doctors, we've even got the coats roflcopter." It's something enforced by the program to appear "professional ". It's stupid but you have to put up with it. Most students hate them. The few people that continue to wear them after graduation are probably doing so because they keep a lot of random things on hand and/or are just trying to stay warm in the cold hospital.

No one's putting these things on in the morning, looking in the mirror and saying "God I hope someone thinks I'm a doctor today!"

PAs and NPs probably wear them so those few random patients don't think their in the room to take their lunch order. I would too, personally.

Pharmacists are at the top of their field and not after your job. No one cares what they wear.

Never seen a DPT/OT wear a white coat.


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There are absolutely nurses and others who wear it hoping they'll be mistaken for doctors. I worked with a nurse who had a DNP who would wear a white coat with Dr. Lastname on it and would introduce herself as Dr.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yea? How?

Your false equivalence of science with bench science is concerning.

You see denigration in a statement of facts. Take a step back, take a deep breath, sit the hell down, and earn a degree before you start talking about the profession.

Agree with you. I will say though there are nurses doing actual science though. A few at my wife's oncology clinic did a study on peppermint oil vs zofran for controlling nausea in chemo patients.

 

[zurc2014]

It used to be that nurses wore starched white caps and receiving the cap was a milestone in school as was receiving the ribbon that indicated that the nurse had graduated. For some there was a pin on the cap as well. I haven't seen a cap in 25 years so it is no surprise that coats are filling the vacuum.

Why feel sorry for the patients? The staffers should be introducing themselves to patients so that they are aware of who is caring for them.

Well at Parkland Memorial Hospital I know many DNP's that go into the room (white coats and all) and introduce their selves as "Dr. LizzyM". Not "Dr. LizzyM the DNP oncall tonight.." Not gonna lie, it lowkey pisses me off.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Well at Parkland Memorial Hospital I know many DNP's that go into the room (white coats and all) and introduce their selves as "Dr. LizzyM". Not "Dr. LizzyM the DNP oncall tonight.." Not gonna lie, it lowkey pisses me off.

It really pisses me off, not because of any superiority complex but because it is intentionally confusing to patients solely to strike their egos. And bringing it up to the administration does nothing because they are typically nurses themselves, and the nursing unions where I've worked make it impossible to fire any nurse for anything short of negligent homicide.

 

[SwordOfTheMorning]

My friend is getting a bachelor's in dental hygiene. They had a white coat ceremony, too. Everyone and their mother is doing it now, apparently.

 

[zero0]

Just another by-product of the everyone is special PC culture

 

[zurc2014]

It really pisses me off, not because of any superiority complex but because it is intentionally confusing to patients solely to strike their egos. And bringing it up to the administration does nothing because they are typically nurses themselves, and the nursing unions where I've worked make it impossible to fire any nurse for anything short of negligent homicide.

Dear Lord you work/have worked in a hospital lol. They run the hospital (especially Magnet Status hospitals) and there's nothing you can do about it. I hate when I go into a patients room and they say "yea the Dr.X, that just walked out said blah blah blah" and I correct them and say "That's the Nurse Practitioner..." One thing I have learned after nearly a decade working in hospitals is patients do not know squat about who's who. If a woman with scrubs walk in then they think nurse, if a guy with a coat walk in they think doctor. I've done clinical research for a minute now and they always greet me with "hi doctor". Ok...Im rambling but white coats worn buy everyone is confusing as hell

 

[zurc2014]

Not to derail but have you guys noticed that mostly only docs tuck their scrubs in? I noticed that everyone else doesn't. Noticed this at other places too.

 

[zero0]

Well at Parkland Memorial Hospital I know many DNP's that go into the room (white coats and all) and introduce their selves as "Dr. LizzyM". Not "Dr. LizzyM the DNP oncall tonight.." Not gonna lie, it lowkey pisses me off.

It's lowkey illegal to do that. Report them.

 

[Ho0v-man]

There are absolutely nurses and others who wear it hoping they'll be mistaken for doctors. I worked with a nurse who had a DNP who would wear a white coat with Dr. Lastname on it and would introduce herself as Dr.

Agree. My post was mainly in regards to adn/bsn nurses and other folks in allied health fields. DNP crap pisses me off too. To a degree I get it. They're busy and don't want to constantly explain what their degree means. I mean a DO will never introduce him/herself as an "osteopathic physician" and then open the door to having to explain what the heck that is and falling even farther behind on the ever-increasing workload. However, going as far as you described is purposely misleading.

But then you have to wonder why that matters. Would patient care change if that DNP introduced themselves as Firstname Lastname, the nurse practitioner that works with blah blah who will be assisting with etc.? Either way that patient is still getting seen by an NP. The NP is going to provide the same care regardless of whether or not the patient thinks he/she is a doctor.

People harp on this issue, (and it's discussion would be a massive derailing of this thread) but no matter what they do the end result would be the same. People get their panties in a bunch because it's "disrespectful" or something.


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[zurc2014]

It's lowkey illegal to do that. Report them.

Look at my last post. I cant report them. Its like reporting the police to the police. In the hospital realm (at least large academic institutions)....its their world.

 

[SwordOfTheMorning]

Dear Lord you work/have worked in a hospital lol. They run the hospital (especially Magnet Status hospitals) and there's nothing you can do about it. I hate when I go into a patients room and they say "yea the Dr.X, that just walked out said blah blah blah" and I correct them and say "That's the Nurse Practitioner..." One thing I have learned after nearly a decade working in hospitals is patients do not know squat about who's who. If a woman with scrubs walk in then they think nurse, if a guy with a coat walk in they think doctor. I've done clinical research for a minute now and they always greet me with "hi doctor". Ok...Im rambling but white coats worn buy everyone is confusing as hell

The funniest encounter I've seen between an NP and a physician was when I worked as a scribe. An inpatient was brought to the ER and the NP who was previously treating him came down to the ER with him. She had this huge ego complex and gave an attitude to the physician I was scribing for. She kept telling the doctor how to treat the patient. At one point, in front of the patient, she went next to the door and signaled with her finger to the doctor to "come here" to talk outside. I was dying inside, because the physician was also the chief medical officer of the hospital, at the time. After that finger gesture, she sure got an earful from the physician.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Dear Lord you work/have worked in a hospital lol. They run the hospital (especially Magnet Status hospitals) and there's nothing you can do about it. I hate when I go into a patients room and they say "yea the Dr.X, that just walked out said blah blah blah" and I correct them and say "That's the Nurse Practitioner..." One thing I have learned after nearly a decade working in hospitals is patients do not know squat about who's who. If a woman with scrubs walk in then they think nurse, if a guy with a coat walk in they think doctor. I've done clinical research for a minute now and they always greet me with "hi doctor". Ok...Im rambling but white coats worn buy everyone is confusing as hell

I worked in a Magnet Hospital for 8 years. It's ludicrous. We had nurses who would literally just refuse to do their jobs because they didn't feel like it. We'd get patients from same day surgery who hadn't had anything done on them. No vitals, no consent, nothing. And they had been working there for decades.

You're absolutely right that the patients don't know ****. We had an anesthesiology tech (the guy who cleans and stocks the cart, not an AA) who helped us move patients every now and then, and patients would sometimes call him doctor. They assume any male who looks over the age of 26 to be a doctor.

 

[zurc2014]

Agree. My post was mainly in regards to adn/bsn nurses and other folks in allied health fields. DNP crap pisses me off too. To a degree I get it. They're busy and don't want to constantly explain what their degree means. I mean a DO will never introduce him/herself as an "osteopathic physician" and then open the door to having to explain what the heck that is and falling even farther behind on the ever-increasing workload. However, going as far as you described is purposely misleading.

But then you have to wonder why that matters. Would patient care change if that DNP introduced themselves as Firstname Lastname, the nurse practitioner that works with blah blah who will be assisting with etc.? Either way that patient is still getting seen by an NP. The NP is going to provide the same care regardless of whether or not the patient thinks he/she is a doctor.

People harp on this issue, (and it's discussion would be a massive derailing of this thread) but no matter what they do the end result would be the same. People get their panties in a bunch because it's "disrespectful" or something.


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Word...

 

[cbrons]

DNPs cannot introduce themselves as "doctor" so and so in a hospital setting unless they clarify that they are not a physician.

In 8 states, it is illegal for them to introduce themselves as "doctor" so-and-so even with this rejoinder in the hospital setting.

The reason why many of them do it is because they want to be mistaken for actual physicians. The whole purpose of the DNP degree is so that it becomes confusing for patients to tell the difference. There is absolutely no difference between the clinical skills/knowledgebase of a regular NP and a DNP.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Agree. My post was mainly in regards to adn/bsn nurses and other folks in allied health fields. DNP crap pisses me off too. To a degree I get it. They're busy and don't want to constantly explain what their degree means. I mean a DO will never introduce him/herself as an "osteopathic physician" and then open the door to having to explain what the heck that is and falling even farther behind on the ever-increasing workload. However, going as far as you described is purposely misleading.

But then you have to wonder why that matters. Would patient care change if that DNP introduced themselves as Firstname Lastname, the nurse practitioner that works with blah blah who will be assisting with etc.? Either way that patient is still getting seen by an NP. The NP is going to provide the same care regardless of whether or not the patient thinks he/she is a doctor.

People harp on this issue, (and it's discussion would be a massive derailing of this thread) but no matter what they do the end result would be the same. People get their panties in a bunch because it's "disrespectful" or something.


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No. That argument is invalid. A DO is a physician. A DO doesn't have to qualify or explain his degree because he is a licensed physician. A DNP is a NURSE. A DNP is a doctor the way an English PhD is a doctor. In no clinical situation ever is it okay for these nurses to call themselves Dr Lastname.

 

[zurc2014]

DNPs cannot introduce themselves as "doctor" so and so in a hospital setting unless they clarify that they are not a physician.

In 8 states, it is illegal for them to introduce themselves as "doctor" so-and-so even with this rejoinder in the hospital setting.

The reason why many of them do it is because they want to be mistaken for actual physicians. The whole purpose of the DNP degree is so that it becomes confusing for patients to tell the difference. There is absolutely no difference between the clinical skills/knowledgebase of a regular NP and a DNP.

Go to UTSW and Parkland....they give no F's....

 

[cbrons]

Go to UTSW and Parkland....they give no F's....

Thats a problem with the hospital culture then. One lawsuit would solve that very quickly.

This is why you see many hospitals have badges like this:

^^^ These badges came about because of lawsuits at least peripherally related to problems with patients not knowing who was treating them. I can guarantee you that hospital lawyers are NOT ok with Nurse Practitioners introducing them as "doctor so-and-so".

Its funny they would do that in Texas, which is one of the most restrictive (safest) states for NP practice. They cannot practice without physician supervision.

 

[zurc2014]

Thats a problem with the hospital culture then. One lawsuit would solve that very quickly.

This is why you see many hospitals have badges like this:

^^^ These badges came about because of lawsuits at least peripherally related to problems with patients not knowing who was treating them. I can guarantee you that hospital lawyers are NOT ok with Nurse Practitioners introducing them as "doctor so-and-so".

Its funny they would do that in Texas, which is one of the most restrictive (safest) states for NP practice. They cannot practice without physician supervision.

Yass!!! This is one reason (silly reason) I am excited about my interview at Carver. Their hospital badges have huge "doctor" and "nurse" signs lol. HUGE letters 🙂 IDK why that attracted me as much as it did but hey...it did lol

 

[zurc2014]

Thats a problem with the hospital culture then. One lawsuit would solve that very quickly.

This is why you see many hospitals have badges like this:

^^^ These badges came about because of lawsuits at least peripherally related to problems with patients not knowing who was treating them. I can guarantee you that hospital lawyers are NOT ok with Nurse Practitioners introducing them as "doctor so-and-so".

Its funny they would do that in Texas, which is one of the most restrictive (safest) states for NP practice. They cannot practice without physician supervision.

Here, there are badges that do say RN or Resident Physician. But for DNP's they have normal badges with little writing on them. To make it worse, these hospitals (looking at you UT) thought it was a great idea to put everyone in the same color scrubs. Everyone from the janitors to the head of neurosurgery wear blue scrubs. So image you have everyone in the hospital wearing the same scrubs and many have long white coats.

 

[Ho0v-man]

No. That argument is invalid. A DO is a physician. A DO doesn't have to qualify or explain his degree because he is a licensed physician. A DNP is a NURSE. A DNP is a doctor the way an English PhD is a doctor. In no clinical situation ever is it okay for these nurses to call themselves Dr Lastname.

I agree with you. I'm just saying to some small extent I understand not wanting to explain specifically exactly what your degree means since it's not going to change anything to 99% of patients and you're busy. Let NPs call themselves doctors if they want. The only thing it does is help them delude themselves. No one else cares.

I promise I'm the last person who will ever support the NP/DNP. I personally hope that some law is passed where it becomes outside the scope of practice of a physician to supervise NPs. The field would die once they lost the ability to have docs soak up all of their liability and I would dance on the grave of that profession.


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[zurc2014]

I agree with you. I'm just saying to some small extent I understand not wanting to explain specifically exactly what your degree means since it's not going to change anything to 99% of patients and you're busy. Let NPs call themselves doctors if they want. The only thing it does is help them delude themselves. No one else cares.

I promise I'm the last person who will ever support the NP/DNP. I personally hope that some law is passed where it becomes outside the scope of practice of a physician to supervise NPs. The field would die once they lost the ability to have docs soak up all of their liability and I would dance on the grave of that profession.


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#savagelife

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I agree with you. I'm just saying to some small extent I understand not wanting to explain specifically exactly what your degree means since it's not going to change anything to 99% of patients and you're busy. Let NPs call themselves doctors if they want. The only thing it does is help them delude themselves. No one else cares.

It doesn't matter. It's about integrity. If these nurses can't even be trusted to be honest about their role in patient care, how can they be trusted to actually care for patients?

In what context would a nurse have to explain what a DNP is? If you're a clinical nurse, you are acting as a nurse. You say, "Hi, my name is James and I'll be the nurse taking care of you this morning." End of story.

NPs and RNs introducing themselves as doctor is not only illegal, but confusing for patients. When a nurse tells something to a patient who then asks the doctor about it, and the doctor asks who told them that, it confuses the issue. Additionally, nurses sometimes do not fully understand why physicians give certain orders or tell certain things to patients. By introducing themselves as Doctor, they are giving equal weight to their opinions on the patient's treatment.

I promise I'm the last person who will ever support the NP/DNP. I personally hope that some law is passed where it becomes outside the scope of practice of a physician to supervise NPs. The field would die once they lost the ability to have docs soak up all of their liability and I would dance on the grave of that profession.


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They already have completely independent practice rights in some states, and they are doing just fine there because of the PCP shortage. In NM, even paramedics have an extended scope of practice due to the shortage.

 

[Sardinia]

Here, there are badges that do say RN or Resident Physician. But for DNP's they have normal badges with little writing on them. To make it worse, these hospitals (looking at you UT) thought it was a great idea to put everyone in the same color scrubs. Everyone from the janitors to the head of neurosurgery wear blue scrubs. So image you have everyone in the hospital wearing the same scrubs and many have long white coats.

Doctor Simpson. Doctor Simpson. Paging Doctor Simpson. Doctor Simpson. Doctor Simpson.

 

[Sardinia]

My intellectual contribution to this thread is that hospitals could be increasingly liberal about white coat/scrub attire because they want to obfuscate an increasing reliance on mid-level practitioners. Mid-level practitioners don't weigh down their day to day operations as a base price point as a physician and also they game their HCAHPS scores. Patient perception is not too reliant on actual facts, I believe a report stated that patient satisfaction was negatively correlated with patient's actually receiving better care. If a patient gets released with an incorrect abx and they identify their provider as being a mid-level then they are more likely to attribute blame to the receiving inadequate healthcare rather than having symptoms that were difficult to diagnose. Also according to a recent report I read, most hospitals consider themselves to be operating at a loss and aren't in the black. Just a thought.

 

[Ho0v-man]

They already have completely independent practice rights in some states, and they are doing just fine there because of the PCP shortage. In NM, even paramedics have an extended scope of practice due to the shortage.

Even in those states, few actually work truly independently. Most NPs aren't comfortable taking the liability and find a doc to sign their charts once a week to absorb any potential fallout on them. If they lose their safety net, they'll quickly stop treating anything more complex than a cold.

Once I had to explain to an NP the symptoms of a salivary stone. He'd been practicing for over 5 years. This level of ineptitude is not a rare occurrence. PLEASE give them independent practice rights. After a couple of tragic national news stories, patients will know what a nurse practitioner is because they'll be so afraid that they won't even see them in a dependent role. Furthermore, malpractice will skyrocket to the point that they'd make more as an RN.



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