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I wanted to get some opinions about which has the better reputation, NYU or Mount Sinai. I went to both and they both seem like great places, each with its own ups and downs. Any thoughts?
Nyc
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Depends what you want but if you are looking for a cards placement, which I assume by your posts in the past, I would say sinai, especially with the great cards dept...I mean with fuster as chair (and head of CVRI = good basic science), and mehta for ep and sharma for interventional, you have the triumvirate of big names in any cards field = good lor for fellowship...they like their own people as can be seen by their match rates...babayatsky bats for his people as we already know...
However, if you mean reputation from a layperson standpoint, I think more people have heard of NYU than mt sinai (people in medicine have, but people outside of medicine dont know it as well), so you may get a look or two wondering where sinai is, esp if you are talkin to laypersons outside of NY...I think nationally also, sinai may not have as much recognition...
i think for both, GI and ID are pretty big and decent...they both probaby get dwarfed off in the city though by the big dawg columbia, and I think cornell's beautiful location and ivy league name might still give an edge out over the two also, though that gap is closing if cornell doesnt work harder to break their rep for pvt patients...
clinical training wise however, I think NYU is hard to beat given bellvue, and their diverse hospitals (tisch is rich, bellvue is not, va is the va)...they definitely get a range of pathology, and they OWN their patients...
My take on NY if I had to rank is Columbia>cornell>mt sinai>NYU...though the housing at cornell makes me REALLY consider a second glimpse, esp because I know you could actually get to enjoy living in the city, rather than A) battling it out in washington heights or B) giving up your first born for rent...but that's not what this thread's about
one last note, I think a lot of mt sinai people keep saying how much above they are compared to NYU and how they are almost equal to cornell int he city or better...I would still probably VERY RESPECTFULLY disagree though at least from a fellowship perspective...they are still only marginally better than NYU (though better still) and would still say a notch or two below cornell, especially when considering cornell's match list rivals columbia and other top programs...
In the end ranking should depend on where you want to live and other factors besides rep, but for cardio, I understand the concern as I have it as well...I would love to hear others opinions on this matter as well, and maybe since the thread is called NYC we can get some opinions on cornell and columbia too...
Peace
J
However, if you mean reputation from a layperson standpoint, I think more people have heard of NYU than mt sinai (people in medicine have, but people outside of medicine dont know it as well), so you may get a look or two wondering where sinai is, esp if you are talkin to laypersons outside of NY...I think nationally also, sinai may not have as much recognition...
i think for both, GI and ID are pretty big and decent...they both probaby get dwarfed off in the city though by the big dawg columbia, and I think cornell's beautiful location and ivy league name might still give an edge out over the two also, though that gap is closing if cornell doesnt work harder to break their rep for pvt patients...
clinical training wise however, I think NYU is hard to beat given bellvue, and their diverse hospitals (tisch is rich, bellvue is not, va is the va)...they definitely get a range of pathology, and they OWN their patients...
My take on NY if I had to rank is Columbia>cornell>mt sinai>NYU...though the housing at cornell makes me REALLY consider a second glimpse, esp because I know you could actually get to enjoy living in the city, rather than A) battling it out in washington heights or B) giving up your first born for rent...but that's not what this thread's about
one last note, I think a lot of mt sinai people keep saying how much above they are compared to NYU and how they are almost equal to cornell int he city or better...I would still probably VERY RESPECTFULLY disagree though at least from a fellowship perspective...they are still only marginally better than NYU (though better still) and would still say a notch or two below cornell, especially when considering cornell's match list rivals columbia and other top programs...
In the end ranking should depend on where you want to live and other factors besides rep, but for cardio, I understand the concern as I have it as well...I would love to hear others opinions on this matter as well, and maybe since the thread is called NYC we can get some opinions on cornell and columbia too...
Peace
J
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Thanks a lot J-Bond, helpful as usual. Sinai will likely end up above NYU for me, but I felt as though post-interview I really couldn't separate the two except for what I already knew in terms of rep.
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Just thought I'd throw another perspective out there, since I'm currently planning to rank NYU>Sinai>Cornell.
In my opinion, residency is the time to become a confident, competent internist and so I am ranking based on autonomy/strength of clinical training first and foremost, with resident morale a close 2nd (to keep me from going insane in the process!
). I thought both of these factors were somewhat stronger at NYU than Sinai and MUCH better at both NYU & Sinai than Cornell. Fellowship placement is also important to me, since I'm thinking cards or pulm/cc, but as long as a program sends a decent number of people into the fields I'm considering, with some going to university programs, I consider it sufficient to get me into a strong fellowship if I make the most of my training. Cornell, NYU, and Sinai all seem fine to me by these criteria. Cornell does do better than NYU/Sinai for cards (and many other specialties, but not pulm/cc), but frankly the slight edge in reputation & fellowship placement is just not worth spending 3 years of my life working as a scribe for private attendings and having no ownership of my patients. Plus, some of the Cornell residents I met were extremely unhappy and I wasn't a big fan of the PD.
Between NYU and Sinai, I think it's a tough call based on personal preference. It seems to me that the fellowship placement is about the same for cards, though J-bond makes a good point about the strong Sinai cards dept. NYU has the edge in pulm/cc placement. I clicked MUCH better with the NYU residents & program leadership than those at Sinai (not a fan of the dept chair at Sinai and liked Dr. Pearlman better than Babyatsky), and as previously mentioned I think NYU has better clinical training and autonomy than Sinai.
Would love to hear what others think as well so let's keep the discussion going!
In my opinion, residency is the time to become a confident, competent internist and so I am ranking based on autonomy/strength of clinical training first and foremost, with resident morale a close 2nd (to keep me from going insane in the process!
). I thought both of these factors were somewhat stronger at NYU than Sinai and MUCH better at both NYU & Sinai than Cornell. Fellowship placement is also important to me, since I'm thinking cards or pulm/cc, but as long as a program sends a decent number of people into the fields I'm considering, with some going to university programs, I consider it sufficient to get me into a strong fellowship if I make the most of my training. Cornell, NYU, and Sinai all seem fine to me by these criteria. Cornell does do better than NYU/Sinai for cards (and many other specialties, but not pulm/cc), but frankly the slight edge in reputation & fellowship placement is just not worth spending 3 years of my life working as a scribe for private attendings and having no ownership of my patients. Plus, some of the Cornell residents I met were extremely unhappy and I wasn't a big fan of the PD. Between NYU and Sinai, I think it's a tough call based on personal preference. It seems to me that the fellowship placement is about the same for cards, though J-bond makes a good point about the strong Sinai cards dept. NYU has the edge in pulm/cc placement. I clicked MUCH better with the NYU residents & program leadership than those at Sinai (not a fan of the dept chair at Sinai and liked Dr. Pearlman better than Babyatsky), and as previously mentioned I think NYU has better clinical training and autonomy than Sinai.
Would love to hear what others think as well so let's keep the discussion going!
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great analysis bix...I too loved Dr. Pearlman and the residents were great at NYU...I think NYC is the ultimate different strokes for different folks city in terms of programs as each tends to bring something different to the table...I would love to hear what people thought of columbia in this mix also esp since it has some autonomy and the rep...but malignancy???
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I can offer on NYU, Sinai, and Cornell. (Sorry J, didn't get offered an interview at Columbia so my info would be second-hand from resident friends there, though the 2 I know there did say they love it and while it is hard work they would do it again, and they ranked Columbia above the other NYC programs.)
NYU was just an awesome place. The autonomy, the residents, and Dr. Pearlman are all factors in that. And they do have pretty good resident placement in fellowships. I was just checking my packet about cards, and Cornell has the other 2 beat. However, NYU has placed people at Columbia and Cornell over the past 3 years. Sinai has about the same at Columbia over a 3 year period (Columbia cardio research for somebody in 2005, another person in 2003 for a straight spot). I'd actually say NYU and Sinai are about equal in cards placement at least number wise.
If you look at the numbers, between 2003 and 2005, Sinai placed 20 people in cards if you include research spots at places like Columbia.. They placed at Mount Sinai (7), Columbia (2), NYU (2), U. Washington (1), Sinai/Elmhurst (2), Beth Israel (2), Westchester (1), U. Maryland (1), UCLA Harbor (1), Montefiore (1).
NYU between '03 and '05 placed 22 people, including Columbia (1), Cornell (2), U. Pitt (3), Georgetown (1), Montefiore (1), North Shore (5), NYU (2), Beth Israel (2), Westchester (2), Robert Wood (1), Thomas Jefferson (1), St. Luke's (1).
I think that they're pretty equal. Of course, I don't know if there's a 100% match at NYU (I think there is at Sinai).
That's my take from the numbers. It's important to have a PD that will go to bat for you, but I don't think that separates NYU and Sinai since Dr. Pearlman seems like the super-open type.
NYU was just an awesome place. The autonomy, the residents, and Dr. Pearlman are all factors in that. And they do have pretty good resident placement in fellowships. I was just checking my packet about cards, and Cornell has the other 2 beat. However, NYU has placed people at Columbia and Cornell over the past 3 years. Sinai has about the same at Columbia over a 3 year period (Columbia cardio research for somebody in 2005, another person in 2003 for a straight spot). I'd actually say NYU and Sinai are about equal in cards placement at least number wise.
If you look at the numbers, between 2003 and 2005, Sinai placed 20 people in cards if you include research spots at places like Columbia.. They placed at Mount Sinai (7), Columbia (2), NYU (2), U. Washington (1), Sinai/Elmhurst (2), Beth Israel (2), Westchester (1), U. Maryland (1), UCLA Harbor (1), Montefiore (1).
NYU between '03 and '05 placed 22 people, including Columbia (1), Cornell (2), U. Pitt (3), Georgetown (1), Montefiore (1), North Shore (5), NYU (2), Beth Israel (2), Westchester (2), Robert Wood (1), Thomas Jefferson (1), St. Luke's (1).
I think that they're pretty equal. Of course, I don't know if there's a 100% match at NYU (I think there is at Sinai).
That's my take from the numbers. It's important to have a PD that will go to bat for you, but I don't think that separates NYU and Sinai since Dr. Pearlman seems like the super-open type.
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My 2 Cents: I'd agree that the nice thing about NYC is the diversity of programs. I really got the impression that all four university programs are great places to train - and I think the best thing to do is go with your gut. Having said that, Sinai does have Bellevue-lite experience with their community hospital in Queens, and they are know to have "happy" residents. NYU, on the other hand does have a new PD that might make some great changes to the program, and they have the best location for a young person that wants to enjoy the city... With all of that, I personally put Sinai over NYU b/c I got the impression that Sinai had a stronger house staff, and I believe that a large part of your education will come from your fellow residents... Of course, my ROL is changing on an hourly basis.
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for those of whom for which it matters, the call system for NYU has no overnights on the wards just long call, whereas in sinai you are q4 long q8 overnight on wards...units call schedule is the same...
I agree fellowship match is similar, hence my contradicting many sinai students on the interview trail who claim they are far above NYU...I think they are close together... I know sinai is 100% for a few years, and I believe that NYU is also close to 100%...the cheif resident I spoke to at NYU during a dinner told me that everyone matched into a spot though in the last few years there were people who didnt match but they didnt really get their app all together correctly and were late to the game...sinai told me they had one resident who didnt match straight out either, but he was given a spot the next year and another resident who didnt match a while back did research for a year and then get a spot...but these are splitting hairs and are exceptions, if you are motivated out of NYU or Sinai you will get a spot and be valued...research MIGHT be more available at sinai, and as I already mentioned having a few big names in cardio there gives them a slight edge and a card up your sleeve to pull for cards...
I agree fellowship match is similar, hence my contradicting many sinai students on the interview trail who claim they are far above NYU...I think they are close together... I know sinai is 100% for a few years, and I believe that NYU is also close to 100%...the cheif resident I spoke to at NYU during a dinner told me that everyone matched into a spot though in the last few years there were people who didnt match but they didnt really get their app all together correctly and were late to the game...sinai told me they had one resident who didnt match straight out either, but he was given a spot the next year and another resident who didnt match a while back did research for a year and then get a spot...but these are splitting hairs and are exceptions, if you are motivated out of NYU or Sinai you will get a spot and be valued...research MIGHT be more available at sinai, and as I already mentioned having a few big names in cardio there gives them a slight edge and a card up your sleeve to pull for cards...
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I also did not get an interview at Columbia so can't help too much. I do have second-hand info from one intern there who tells me it is a pretty malignant place. There is tons of scut, a hospital with terrible facilities where nothing works, and an atmosphere where you get yelled at daily by attendings, nurses, etc. Some Columbia med students I've met on the interview trail have similar stories. On the other hand, they all also say Columbia is full of extremely smart and driven residents/attendings, so you are constantly challenged to do your best. Also, they get great clinical training b/c of the autonomy and acuity of the patients (vented patients on the floor, etc.). Hope that's somewhat helpful.
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