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suzette

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Hey,
I am deciding between PCOM and NYCOM and am wondering if anyone has any advice for me. Which is a better school etc????
Thanks!
 
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Billy33

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they're probably very close to being the same, it almost will have to come down to which city you'd rather live in. i can't vouch for NYCOM b/c i'm starting at PCOM this summer, but there are a lot of med schools in philly (6ish i think) which makes it a very well known city for a medical education. it's actually one of the reasons i chose PCOM. have you visited both yet?
 

keddisDO

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From what I heard NYCOM is great for their clinical rotations because they are in some of the best hospitals in NYC and NJ as well as the suburban location, as well as OMM learning is great tehre, but i heard thats it.

PCOM from everyone there and from students elsewhere say its an amazing school, everyone loves the school despite how hard the work is, facilities are amazing, education is great, rotations can basically be done anywhere in the world. Its in Philly, great city and great experience you can get being in a diverse city through community projects.

I would say PCOM, but you have to weigh what you want in a school and see which better suits what you like in a school, and if you will be happy there and thats more important than anything else.
 

Chrisobean

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Originally posted by Billy33
but there are a lot of med schools in philly (6ish i think) which makes it a very well known city for a medical education.

i guess you could say the same thing about ny... even though nycom is slightly outside of the acutal city.

this seems to be a tough choice. i havent heard bad things about either one.
 

Dr JPH

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This was my dilemma as well back in the day. PCOM won out hands down. PM me if you want details.
 

pafbdoc

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I had a similar decision...I chose NYCOM. The first two years are very similar in many schools.... they all use the same books, have the same classes, etc. Rotations is really where your clinical expertise is acquired, hence this was more important to me. My dad is an MD, his partner is a nycom grad, and very much recommended the school.

Also, I heard PCOM is losing their strongest hospital affiliation.... dont know the details, maybe the pcomers can elaborate. I've heard from some residents that are in NY but went to PCOM that the rotations are very variable... some are okay and some are downright horrible. The facilities are nice, but w/ the sixers there, how often are students actually allowed to use the equipment?

Anyway, both are great schools... go wherever you'll be happiest.
 

Dr JPH

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Originally posted by pafbdoc
I had a similar decision...I chose NYCOM. The first two years are very similar in many schools.... they all use the same books, have the same classes, etc. Rotations is really where your clinical expertise is acquired, hence this was more important to me. My dad is an MD, his partner is a nycom grad, and very much recommended the school.

Also, I heard PCOM is losing their strongest hospital affiliation.... dont know the details, maybe the pcomers can elaborate. I've heard from some residents that are in NY but went to PCOM that the rotations are very variable... some are okay and some are downright horrible. The facilities are nice, but w/ the sixers there, how often are students actually allowed to use the equipment?

Anyway, both are great schools... go wherever you'll be happiest.

The facilities are open to all students. Gym is closed for 4 hours during the day when Sixers practice. They do not compromise or close down the exercise equipment at all because of them. More than what NYCOM offers.

As far as PCOM losing its strognest affiliation...I'm nto sure what hospital you are talking about. 2 hospitals in the city are closing, but I wouldn't consider them our strongest hospitals. The faculty who were at those places are just moving to different facilities. In fact, I didn't rank either of those places on my list of rorations.

I am not saying that NYCOM is not a great school. All in all, the 3rd and 4th year affiliations are amazing. But you have to remember that when it comes to residencies, its how well you do on your rotations, not how big the hospital you rotate through that matters. Some of the community hospitals that are on our list are great...students are first assist in many surgeries and deliver all the time on OB/GYN. One student told me he delivered 35 in his 4 weeks.

Personally, I would rather spend my time at a school that has a great campus, amazing facilities, reasonable housing costs in the area, and is in the city. I wasn't impressed with NYCOMs campus nor the facilities (or lack thereof). I also wasn't impressed by the attitude of many of the students there.

I may sound like I'm just talking out my ass, but I have friends who graduated from both schools over the past 4 years. I also have had lectures with several NYCOM docs and actually shadowed several as well.

Both schools have their pros and cons. Personally I would not have been happy at NYCOM.
 

oceandocDO

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I'm rotating with a PCOM fourth year student right now who's doing an elective in NY and he's pretty bummed that those hospitals are closing as he said some of the best teaching he got happened there. He's close with some administration there and supposedly they're really in a bind trying to get places for people to rotate. Who knows...

One thing that turned me off to pcom originally was the fact that their students have to often move all over pennsylvania in third and fourth year. The guy I'm rotating with now had rotations in harrisburg, lancanster, philadelphia, bethlehem, and pittsburgh in third year. He said living out of a suitcase got old, and a bit lonely. Plus most are community hospitals, very few level I trauma or tertiary care centers. Although nycom has some rotations upstate, probably about 80% of them are in the NY metro area. No one I knew had to travel unless they wanted to. I didnt have to move once in my third year.

I know facilities are the bait for many premed students, but realize, by the time you graduate, you'll be spending many more hours in hospitals than you will in your school's gym or library.... having great clinical affiliations which are close was very important to me, but different strokes for different folks I guess...
 

Pitt Panther

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Originally posted by oceandocDO
One thing that turned me off to pcom originally was the fact that their students have to often move all over pennsylvania in third and fourth year. The guy I'm rotating with now had rotations in harrisburg, lancanster, philadelphia, bethlehem, and pittsburgh in third year. He said living out of a suitcase got old, and a bit lonely. Plus most are community hospitals, very few level I trauma or tertiary care centers...

That's a valid point however I take the opposite view. I look forward to seeing what life is like rotating through different hospitals/clinics, working with different people, and establishing contacts at >1 location. Although the individual previously mentioned didn't rotate thorough a level 1 trauma center, if your willing and able to travel, rotating through such facilities shouldn't be much of a problem.

Granted, I am just a 1st year, and maybe I have diarrhea of the mouth :wow: ...but that's just my opinion.
 

oceandocDO

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No, I totally agree, rotating at different institutions can be very beneficial. But, they dont have to be in different cities necessarily to see different types of patients. At nycom you can choose to do all your third year rotations in one of 5 hospitals (called the clinical campus program where you stay put in the same institution the entire year at any one of those 5 places that offer it) or you can spread yourself out more if you want. I'm in 4 different hospitals for my 6 rotations in third year, two are large Level I trauma centers (one of which was voted the best hospital in america last year by the AARP for whatever that means), and the other two are 250 bed community hospitals. Very different types of patients in each place. However, all 4 hospitals are no more than 30 minutes from my house.... ie... I dont have to move every month or 6 weeks and live in a run-down dorm room with no TV, internet access, or friends around.
 
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suzette

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Hey,
I was not aware that most of the 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations are outside of philadelphia...Does anyone have a list of the affiliate hospitals/ possible rotations for third and fourth year? Also, if I wanted to stay in philly for all of my rotations would that be possible?
Thanks!
 

AshDO

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Although I may be slightly biased, I would have to say to choose PCOM, hands down. After visiting many of the osteopathic and allopathic schools, PCOM had BY FAR the nicest facilities and is in the best location. Good luck with your choice:D
 

raptor5

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Does anyone have a list of the affiliate hospitals/ possible rotations for third and fourth year?

From:
http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html

Abington Memorial Hospital
Altoona Hospital
Arnold, Wayne, D.O.
Bedford Wellness Center
Bensalem Health Center
Buckingham Pediatrics
Bustleton Health Center
Cambria Street Healthcare Center - North Center
Center City Health Center
Chestnut Hill Hospital
Christiana Care Health Services
City Avenue Health Care Center
City Line Pediatrics
Clarion Osteopathic Hospital
Clay, Anthony, D.O.
Community Hospital of Lancaster
Conemaugh Memorial Medical Center
Cooler, Stuart, M.D.
Crozer - Keystone Health System
Di Marco, Anthony, D.O.
Doylestown Hospital
EastCentral Areal Health Education Center
Easton Hospital
Einstein Medical Center
Eugenia Hospital
Fairmount Healthcare Center
Frankford Health System
Family Physicians of Middletown
Fury, Anthony, D.O.
Geisinger Medical Center
Germantown Community Health
Germantown Pediatrics
Good Samaritan Hospital
Graduate Hospital
Harborview Pediatrics
Kantor/Curley Pediatrics
Kornberg, Bruce, D.O.
Kent General Hospital
Lancaster Avenue Healthcare Center - West Philadelphia
Lansdale Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine
Laurel Pediatric Center
Lee Regional Care Center
Lehigh Valley/Muhlenberg Hospital
Lewis, Ronald, D.O.
Lewistown Hospital
Lincow, Arnold, D.O.
Lower Bucks Hospital
McKeesport Hospital
Meadville Medical Center
Medical Center of Beaver
Mercy Catholic Health System
Mercy Suburban Hospital
Northcentral Area Health Education Center
Northeastern Hospital - Temple East
Osteopathic Institute of the South
Papa, Louis, D.O.
Pearson, Gregg, D.O.
Pennsylvania Hospital
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
Pinnacle - Community General Osteopathic Hospital
Pinnacle Health System (Harrisburg Hopspital)
Reading Hospital
Reading Urban Center
Roxborough Healthcare Center
Sacred Heart Hospital
Saint Agnes Medical Center
Saint Barnabas Hospital
Saint Francis Hospital
Saint John?s Episcopal Hospital
Saint Joseph's Hospital/North Philadelphia Health System
Saint Joseph Medical Center
Saint Luke's Hospital-Allentown
Saint Luke?s Hospital - Bethlehem
Schwartzman, Mitchell, D.O.
Seretis, George, D.O.
Sheppard-Pratt Hospital
Simmers/Lerch Pediatrics
Southern Chester County Medical Center
Sullivan County Medical Center
Temple University Hospital-Episcopal Campus
Tenet-Roxborough Hospital
Trenton Psychiatric Hospital
Trinitas Hospital
University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey/School of Osteopathic Medicine
UPMC - Horison Health System
Wallach, Marvin, D.O.
Widerman Pediatric Office
Williamsport Hospital
Warren Hospital Family Practice and Residency Program
Wyoming Valley Cardiology Group
Wyoming Valley Family Practice/Wilkes-Barre Hospital
 

Dr JPH

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Originally posted by suzette
Also, if I wanted to stay in philly for all of my rotations would that be possible?

Chance are that you will be going outside the city for some of your rotations. Many people choose to go to the pittsburgh, scranton, or harrisburg areas, as thats where they are from. There are also affiliates in delaware, new jersey, new york, and georgia that people choose. Many of our students are military so they choose military hospitals for rotations.

Each year the hospital affiliation list grows. St. Agnes and MCP are no longer here, but we added several hospitals in their place (Deborah Heart and Lung, Lankenau, etc)
 

Tubman

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Chance are that you will be going outside the city for some of your rotations.

Had I known this fact, I most likely would have chosen to attend NYCOM instead. I had been told that because PCOM is located in city with such an array of hospitals, we would not be required to leave Philly. The last thing I want to do is move around from month to month while paying for rent in the city.
 

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Originally posted by Tubman
Chance are that you will be going outside the city for some of your rotations.

Had I known this fact, I most likely would have chosen to attend NYCOM instead. I had been told that because PCOM is located in city with such an array of hospitals, we would not be required to leave Philly. The last thing I want to do is move around from month to month while paying for rent in the city.

This sounds like a lot of 2nd year students at PCOM recently. I am a rotation group leader so I fielded all sorts of complaints and questions about this issue.

However when I mean that some students will have to go outside the city, quite often that means within a drivable distance. In my rotation group I don't know of any student who is going to a very distant site that didn't want to go there for any number of reasons.

PCOMs major concern is not that it's students all get education in Philadelphia, but get their rotations at the best possible hospitals. Sometimes these are small community hospitals that only PCOM rotates through. Sometimes these are community hospitals that are also frequented by Temple, Jefferson and Drexel students. And sometimes these are huge hospitals that have every known specialty and service (Geisinger, UPMC, Christiana).

PCOM also gives you a great deal of lattitude with one elective in your 3rd year and 5 electives in your 5th year. You can go anywhere and do anything on your electives. These are the rotations that really count...this is where you will visit the hospitals that you will apply to for residencies...these are the places you will get letters of recommendation.

As far as paying rent in Philly while going away...I know several people who chose to do ALL away rotations so they aren't paying rent at all for the entire year. They are living in the provided housing for each rotation. And in comparison to NYCOM...trust me when I say that you can live in Philly for much cheaper than you can on long island. I have been in Philly for almost 7 years now (actually in the city) and have yet to pay over $400.00 a month in rent. I have lived in a single studio, private house, 2br apartment, and 3br apartments. I have not needed a car until 3rd year of medical school...I had one down here, but it wasn't necessary at all. Another expense that you can't get away from at NYCOM.

If staying in a certain city for your rotations is the msot important attribute for a medical school, then you need to reevaluate your decision making process. Of a total 23 rotations, going away for 2 of those shouldn't be cause for concern.

Personally, if I go away for any rotations, I will sublet my apartment to visiting medical students or to PCOM students who are away all the time and have a Philly rotation that month.

It's really not that big of a deal.
 

Dr JPH

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I don't think the school will stop you. EM is a core 4th year rotation.

I do not know of many EM programs that will take a 3rd year student on a rotation...at least most of the larger, academic hospitals won't. I know of some great acute care clinics in rural areas (ie: ski mountain), but again, they only take 4th year students.

You will have more than enough time to get an EM elective in. If you are interested in EM, I suggest using your 3rd year elective in something such as Anesthesiology, Opthalmology, or Orthopedics. You can also break the elective into two 2 week blocks instead of one 4 week block.

Pulmonary medicine is also a great 3rd year elective choice for future ED docs. PCOM has amazing pulmonary faculty. You will see who I mean when you have Pulmonary Med.
 

hkny79

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wow.. thats a great clinicial affliations list for PCOM ...pretty impressive..
 

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I graduate pcom in a few weeks, and let me tell you, the rotations are nothing to write home about. That list may be long, but they put any D.O. w/ a private practice on there that we rotate at. The GREAT majority of them are community hospitals. Losing MCP really sucks in my opinion, because it was a decent location, in philly, and now more students will probably be forced outside the city. I had to schlep my way between philly, harrisburg, pittsburgh, and bethlehem my third year, it got old and pretty damn lonely.

I do have to admit though, it's not as bad as some schools. Some of the midwestern COMs have students travelling from ohio to michigan, to pennsylvania, to NY, to oregon... no joke, a friend of mine did it. If you're the adventurous type, power to you, but I've about had it with travelling. It basically killed my relationship w/ my exgirlfriend, so maybe I'm just bitter.

I'm (hopefully) matching in NYC for IM next week, and I've been up here for alot of this year, and I have to admit, NYCOM does have some sweet rotation sites and not many of their students ever have to move, they may sit in traffic, but at least they have a place to call home and dont have to live in a $hitty dorm room as a 25 year old adult. We may have better facilities on campus, and I have no complaints about the first two years, but I havent used the gym, library, or any aspect of campus in like 2+ years, so make sure you prioritize....
 

DOnut

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It seems like way back in the day, but when I was applying I was fortunate enough to be accepted into both PCOM and NYCOM. I chose NYCOM.

I chose NYCOM simply because of superior clinical training. NYCOM has some of the best clinical affiliation in the country. There are 4 300+ bed major tertiary hopsitals that we can rotate throughout New York City. Good Samaritan Medical Center, St. Barnabas Hospital Bronx, NY, Maimonides Medical Center Brooklyn, NY, and Long Island Jewish Medical Center. This does not include the list of 17 clinical campuses and auxillary sites through which we can rotate including North Shore University Hospital which was ranked as the number 1 hospital in the nation for overall care according to the AARP magazine. All located right here in the city of NY.

I have many friend who attend PCOM, so I know that you will have to bounce from city to city to complete your third year rotations.

I live in Queens. I have a great appartment, and I'm not moving anywhere until I graduate.

Not only am I staying in one city for my 3rd year rotations, I will be participating in our regional clinical scholars program where I will spend my entire third year at St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx. The advantages to this are many. 1. St. Barnabas is a large level 1 trauma center with nearly 100% occupancy at all times. 2. Teaching at that hospital is phenominal in every department. 3. You have the ability to learn ONE hospital system thoroughly as opposed to trying to figure thing out every 6 weeks or so. The last advantage is that almost all of the attending physicians at Barnabas are NYCOM grads. They know exactly what you have been through. They know what you have learned at the end of second year, and they also know what needs to be taught.

PCOM is a great school, and I believe that their basic science training during the 1st two years is superior to NYCOM. However, we are all training to become physicians. It is the clinical training opportunities and experiences observed and delt with during the third and forth year of medical school that make an excellent physician.

This is just my opinion, so take everything with a grain of salt.
 

oceandocDO

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Actually, add Lutheran Medical Center and Brookdale Medical Center to the list...both are also large tertiary care centers, with over 600 beds each within NYC. St. Vincents Midtown also has about 300 beds in Manhattan.

As opposed to DOnut, as I said above, I choose to rotate through a few different places b/c I wanted a variety and to be able to compare systems, but I realize the argument for each type of rotation scheme.
 

DOnut

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Yeah I forgot to add Lutheran. That was actually my #2 place to do the regional clinical scholars program. Great Hospital!!!
 
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