May 16, 2013
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Hey Guys, I was wondering if anyone could help me with my school decision. I got into NYCOM and Touro-NY and was interested in what you guys thought about these 2 schools.

I honestly felt more comfortable during my time in NYCOM compared to Touro-NY but the thing that I'm really worried about is NYCOM's supposedly high attrition rate.

I'm actually a pretty decent student. I have a 3.8 GPA along with a 31 on the MCAT so I feel confident about my ability in handing the medical school curriculum but I still feel uneasy about NYCOM's high attrition. I actually applied to all the SUNY schools but I got rejected from all of them recently but NYCOM has always been my top DO school. However, I've been question about choosing NYCOM lately due to all the numerous post about the school failing people out rampantly and not caring about the students there.

Therefore I was wondering if NYCOM's high attrition rate alone was a good enough reason to choose TOURO-NY instead even though I absolutely fell in love with NYCOM after my interview there.

Thanks for your help!
 
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The attrition at nycom is typically students with horrible stats who had no business being in med school to begin with (think < 3.4 gpa and < 25 MCAT). Your numbers would have gotten you into MD school. I really hope you applied broadly and not just to the SUNYs! For someone with your stats I would typically recommend 2 cycles of applying broadly to MD schools (at least 30 different ones) before going DO (applying MD only the first time around then MD + DO the second time).
 
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I think you should get in touch with current students at both schools, that will give you a better idea of what it is like at those schools relative to each other.
 

Mad Jack

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NYCOM is an excellent school with a far better reputation, better clinical opportunities, and a proven track record of graduates matching well to competitive allo programs. It isn't that Touro is a bad school, it's just that NYCOM is a really good one. I've worked with a NYCOM surgeon in the past and he spoke very highly of the place. Don't worry about the attrition, it is overblown. I would not recommend dropping two osteopathic admissions in order to just maybe get accepted to an MD school next year, as these two schools will likely not offer you an admission after you reject the current one. So you'd be going all or nothing for MD at that point basically, and losing one year of future practice in opportunity cost, in addition to pushing yourself a year farther down into the residency crunch all for only a -chance- of acceptance.

Go to NYCOM. I was also accepted at Touro, but their curriculum is in flux at the moment and their clinical rotations were a bit of a mess, so I declined in favor of a school that was a bit less chaotic. Med school is hard enough when you know what to expect, Touro is just going through too many changes for my taste at the moment.
 
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Dr. Zombie

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NYCOM is an excellent school with a far better reputation, better clinical opportunities, and a proven track record of graduates matching well to competitive allo programs. It isn't that Touro is a bad school, it's just that NYCOM is a really good one. I've worked with a NYCOM surgeon in the past and he spoke very highly of the place. Don't worry about the attrition, it is overblown. I would not recommend dropping two osteopathic admissions in order to just maybe get accepted to an MD school next year, as these two schools will likely not offer you an admission after you reject the current one. So you'd be going all or nothing for MD at that point basically, and losing one year of future practice in opportunity cost, in addition to pushing yourself a year farther down into the residency crunch all for only a -chance- of acceptance.

Go to NYCOM. I was also accepted at Touro, but their curriculum is in flux at the moment and their clinical rotations were a bit of a mess, so I declined in favor of a school that was a bit less chaotic. Med school is hard enough when you know what to expect, Touro is just going through too many changes for my taste at the moment.
Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "flux" and the messy clinical rotations?
 

baboxxyun

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The attrition at nycom is typically students with horrible stats who had no business being in med school to begin with (think < 3.4 gpa and < 25 MCAT). Your numbers would have gotten you into MD school. I really hope you applied broadly and not just to the SUNYs! For someone with your stats I would typically recommend 2 cycles of applying broadly to MD schools (at least 30 different ones) before going DO (applying MD only the first time around then MD + DO the second time).
the heck... why on earth would you "recommend" wasting two years like that?
even one cycle is a big maybe.

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "flux" and the messy clinical rotations?
I'm not sure on the details, but i think touroNY lost one of its major rotation sites? (anyone feel free to correct me, as i'm not entirely sure about this.)
This could be what mad jack was referring to.
 
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Pisiform

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NYCOM is an excellent school with a far better reputation, better clinical opportunities, and a proven track record of graduates matching well to competitive allo programs. It isn't that Touro is a bad school, it's just that NYCOM is a really good one. I've worked with a NYCOM surgeon in the past and he spoke very highly of the place. Don't worry about the attrition, it is overblown. I would not recommend dropping two osteopathic admissions in order to just maybe get accepted to an MD school next year, as these two schools will likely not offer you an admission after you reject the current one. So you'd be going all or nothing for MD at that point basically, and losing one year of future practice in opportunity cost, in addition to pushing yourself a year farther down into the residency crunch all for only a -chance- of acceptance.

Go to NYCOM. I was also accepted at Touro, but their curriculum is in flux at the moment and their clinical rotations were a bit of a mess, so I declined in favor of a school that was a bit less chaotic. Med school is hard enough when you know what to expect, Touro is just going through too many changes for my taste at the moment.
Completely agree. From what I have heard from my friends and my own experience at touro it is pretty disorganized from academics to admin.
 
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Mad Jack

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Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "flux" and the messy clinical rotations?
Their curriculum is not quite PBL but not quite traditional, it's kind of between the two. Or at least that was the impression I got. Even the staff I asked had trouble describing exactly what their teaching methods were. They haven't graduated a single class so far with their new method of instruction. All of their classes that have finished so far are traditional lecture students, so who knows what the results will be. So far as their clinical rotations, the class size is exploding because of the Middletown campus, but how they intended to supply adequate high quality third and fourth year rotations for both campuses seemed to be a dodgy question. Lastly, one of the students lamented that there was sort of a cut throat atmosphere during the first year, as any marginal students were replaced with SMP students that take the courses alongside the med students. It doesn't happen to more than ten students or so a year, but the fact that you can just be cast aside like that if you have trouble initially adjusting to med school concerns me. That is just an extra level of competition I don't want to deal with.
 
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Their curriculum is not quite PBL but not quite traditional, it's kind of between the two. Or at least that was the impression I got. Even the staff I asked had trouble describing exactly what their teaching methods were. They haven't graduated a single class so far with their new method of instruction. All of their classes that have finished so far are traditional lecture students, so who knows what the results will be. So far as their clinical rotations, the class size is exploding because of the Middletown campus, but how they intended to supply adequate high quality third and fourth year rotations for both campuses seemed to be a dodgy question. Lastly, one of the students lamented that there was sort of a cut throat atmosphere during the first year, as any marginal students were replaced with SMP students that take the courses alongside the med students. It doesn't happen to more than ten students or so a year, but the fact that you can just be cast aside like that if you have trouble initially adjusting to med school concerns me. That is just an extra level of competition I don't want to deal with.
It's not really hard to describe the curriculum. You're in school 4 hours a day (Mondays off, Thursdays till 5pm). All the lectures are uploaded on iTunes. You sit at home, see the videos, take notes. Then come to class and discuss what you learn/didn't learn from the lectures alongside with practice problems to go over (iClicker sessions). I don't really see what's confusing about this. Those that have taken Step 1 passed it with no issues. The curriculum is still rigorous and challenging as it should be in medical school.

They expressed, emphasized, and clarified there are more clinical spots than students. The entire Middletown campus has affiliated hospitals just for them, since there isn't another medical school near by their campus. They aren't sharing or competing with Harlem for clinical spots either.

The school cannot simply kick out a matriculated student because they were "marginal." If they maintained a 2.0 GPA (a C grade), then they cannot be kicked out. Last year 3 SMP students were transferred into the DO class, because 3 students dropped out for either personal reasons or because the student felt they couldn't handle medical school. It has NOTHING to do with being borderline and Big Brother waiting for you to make a false step to "fire" you like this is some retail job. FYI: the year prior, only 1 SMP student was transferred to the DO class.

There is no competition in the DO class. You are not bell-curved. Everyone is graded and scaled independently of one another.

On the other hand, the SMP students ARE cutthroat. They are graded on a bell-curve because all ~70 students are fighting for ~35 seats for the following year's class. But who's complaining about that? This is a 2nd chance to those who couldn't cut it to get admitted to the DO program directly. Suck it up.
 

Mad Jack

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It's not really hard to describe the curriculum. You're in school 4 hours a day (Mondays off, Thursdays till 5pm). All the lectures are uploaded on iTunes. You sit at home, see the videos, take notes. Then come to class and discuss what you learn/didn't learn from the lectures alongside with practice problems to go over (iClicker sessions). I don't really see what's confusing about this. Those that have taken Step 1 passed it with no issues. The curriculum is still rigorous and challenging as it should be in medical school.

They expressed, emphasized, and clarified there are more clinical spots than students. The entire Middletown campus has affiliated hospitals just for them, since there isn't another medical school near by their campus. They aren't sharing or competing with Harlem for clinical spots either.

The school cannot simply kick out a matriculated student because they were "marginal." If they maintained a 2.0 GPA (a C grade), then they cannot be kicked out. Last year 3 SMP students were transferred into the DO class, because 3 students dropped out for either personal reasons or because the student felt they couldn't handle medical school. It has NOTHING to do with being borderline and Big Brother waiting for you to make a false step to "fire" you like this is some retail job. FYI: the year prior, only 1 SMP student was transferred to the DO class.

There is no competition in the DO class. You are not bell-curved. Everyone is graded and scaled independently of one another.

On the other hand, the SMP students ARE cutthroat. They are graded on a bell-curve because all ~70 students are fighting for ~35 seats for the following year's class. But who's complaining about that? This is a 2nd chance to those who couldn't cut it to get admitted to the DO program directly. Suck it up.
Your answer is much more clear than anything I was told at my interview. It was pretty early in the season, perhaps they had not had enough time to get used to the Middletown campus info, perhaps they just were having an off day. I just was not given a great first impression. Thanks for the post, clears up a lot.

Still would go with NYCOM all things considered. Their OPTI is far more robust. Check out the differences in affiliated training institutions below, it's just no contest.

http://nycomec.org/

http://tourocom.com/residencyprograms.html

Maybe Touro will be a stronger school in a few years, but for now I just don't see how it can compete with an established school like NYCOM in the postgraduate opportunities that it offers students. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
 

cliquesh

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the heck... why on earth would you "recommend" wasting two years like that?
even one cycle is a big maybe.
I agree with skinmd. I think any borderline applicant, like the OP, should improve their applicantion and reapply MD and DO on day 1 the following cycle. You will have significantly more opportunities as a MD and, in my opinion, the year delay is worth the opportunity costs.

Anyway, I'd go to nycom. I haven't met anyone who has said anything positive about touro. On the other hand, I have heard people, like an aoa general surgery PD, an aoa urology PD, and an acgme ivy league anesthesia PD, say positive things about nycom. Not like these anecdotes should influence you, hah.
 
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Fedxup

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NYCOM.

High attrition because they want to collect some money :p that why they admit a class of 300+ and by graduation time it is around ~280. It is still a great school.
 

Fedxup

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Not hijacking thread but OPTI program only accept students from the sponsoring institution?
 

cliquesh

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Not hijacking thread but OPTI program only accept students from the sponsoring institution?
No, they will take applicants from other schools, too. Some programs seem to take more students from their sponsoring school, however. Why? Do they give them preference? Do more students from the sponsoring school rotate at the program? Some other reason? Who knows...
 

Fedxup

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No, they will take applicants from other schools, too. Some programs seem to take more students from their sponsoring school, however. Why? Do they give them preference? Do more students from the sponsoring school rotate at the program? Some other reason? Who knows...
Thank you for the clarification
 

scoKraz4

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I was accepted to both last year and chose Touro. Saved 10k a year.
The main reason I chose touro was because it was in NYC. Just look at at the medical schools in NYC now. All great schools. Touro will follow that track once they get rotation spots in hospitals in the city. Hospitals have contracts with med schools to rotate their students there and some of those contracts are expiring soon so they will probably get some spots when that happens..they have the money for it. Harlem hospital is one for sure. There is also an infinite amount of volunteer opportunities around the city or in hospitals in the area.

I can't compare it to NYCOM because I don't know too much about it. Although the couple of friends that I know going there are only going because they didn't get into Touro and they aren't too happy there.

Here is how I see it. DO school is DO school. Go to the one you think you can imagine yourself being happy in and then destroy the boards. In my opinion, Living in NYC is 1000x better than living in Glen Cove(many NYCOM students live here)
 

Dreamstoo

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The attrition at nycom is typically students with horrible stats who had no business being in med school to begin with (think < 3.4 gpa and < 25 MCAT). Your numbers would have gotten you into MD school. I really hope you applied broadly and not just to the SUNYs! For someone with your stats I would typically recommend 2 cycles of applying broadly to MD schools (at least 30 different ones) before going DO (applying MD only the first time around then MD + DO the second time).
I would recommend the exact opposite of what this man said. Apply to md and do in the same cycle. My friend had a low MD science, he's gotten tons of MD rejections, few acceptances and multiple interviews from DOs and acceptances.
 
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