NYMC vs SLU

[Pewl]

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Someone give me a reason to pick NYMC over SLU.

I know that NYMC matches a lot of people into radiology which I see as a good thing because radiology is definitely one of my interests. However, as far as school reputation and quality of teaching, what do you guys think?

There's also no need to point out the option of doing rotations in Manhattan as a perk because I rather dislike NY and would rather not deal with the city.

Nonetheless, I know that both of these schools offer a great education so I am very interested in what you guys think about these two schools.

Thanks!

 

[nymc flower]

Someone give me a reason to pick NYMC over SLU.

I know that NYMC matches a lot of people into radiology which I see as a good thing because radiology is definitely one of my interests. However, as far as school reputation and quality of teaching, what do you guys think?

There's also no need to point out the option of doing rotations in Manhattan as a perk because I rather dislike NY and would rather not deal with the city.

Nonetheless, I know that both of these schools offer a great education so I am very interested in what you guys think about these two schools.

Thanks!

I graduated from NYMC med school. I thought the teaching at NYMC was great! But I think education is more dependent on your own personal efforts than someone lecturing to you. I personally liked NYMC because it was in the suburbs, but was close enough to NYC for other entertainment options.

At NYMC, you do your first 2 years at Valhalla, NY (small suburb in Westchester County, about 45-60 minutes from NYC). In your last 2 years, you have the option of doing your clinical clerkship in the suburbs or New York City. Sounds like you want to do all 4 years in the suburbs, which you can definitely do at NYMC. Suberb rotations can be done with affiliated NYMC Hospitals in suburban New York and Connecticut.

I also interviewed at SLU and did not like the location. I didn't really like the city of St. Louis.

Both NYMC and SLU med schools have a Catholic affiliation.

 

[Messerschmitts]

Wow, did you get into NYMC, or are you debating whether to attend an interview or something? It's definitely a tough choice though. I personally love NYC, and I thought the NYMC campus was just gorgeous. However, SLU is the ranked school, and seems to be on the way up. NYMC's reputation is kind of a mystery, and probably will remain so, as I don't expect them suddenly agreeing to submit their stats to U.S. News anytime soon. I guess, yet again, it comes to personal taste. I truly don't know what I would do if I had to pick between these two.

One thing's for sure, they both cost an arm and a leg! 😛

 

[Pewl]

What do you guys think about the residency match lists?

I do notice that NYMC sends a ton of people into diagnostic radiology, which is very nice. But, it is the case with both schools that they only send 1 or 2 people a year into radiation oncology. I guess this is true for most schools though.

But anyway, the match lists look about the same to me between NYMC and SLU.

What do you guys think?

 

[-Goose-]

double post!

 

[-Goose-]

What do you guys think about the residency match lists?

I do notice that NYMC sends a ton of people into diagnostic radiology, which is very nice. But, it is the case with both schools that they only send 1 or 2 people a year into radiation oncology. I guess this is true for most schools though.

But anyway, the match lists look about the same to me between NYMC and SLU.

What do you guys think?

I've heard the rads PD at NYMC is a very influential character, who makes alot of imp. phone calls come match time for her students. hence, the great match list for rads at nymc.

if you're shooting for rad/onc, I would look into the research opportunities in both rad/onc depts. This is crucial to matching in rad/onc since *alot* of candidates go into it with a mudphud & a ton of research.

If you look at these two things, and whatever else, and the schools still seem even... go with your gut. It sounds like you'd be happier location-wise at SLU (from the 'tone' of your previous posts) than at NYMC, so consider this as well.

Also, can traditionally matching alot of people into rads (or any competitive specialty) be a double-edge sword? I mean its great for the reputation, but consider the extra effort that you might need to stand out from the ~20 (?) of your classmates that are also going for rads... just a thought.

 

[Pewl]

I've heard the rads PD at NYMC is a very influential character, who makes alot of imp. phone calls come match time for her students. hence, the great match list for rads at nymc.

if you're shooting for rad/onc, I would look into the research opportunities in both rad/onc depts. This is crucial to matching in rad/onc since *alot* of candidates go into it with a mudphud & a ton of research.

If you look at these two things, and whatever else, and the schools still seem even... go with your gut. It sounds like you'd be happier location-wise at SLU (from the 'tone' of your previous posts) than at NYMC, so consider this as well.

Also, can traditionally matching alot of people into rads (or any competitive specialty) be a double-edge sword? I mean its great for the reputation, but consider the extra effort that you might need to stand out from the ~20 (?) of your classmates that are also going for rads... just a thought.

You make some good points.

how does an MS in biomedical physics match up? My specialty was in radiation oncology in grad school and radiation therapy. I did a ton of research and worked as the planning physicist for veterinary radiation oncology here at ucla. I'm hoping that my close relationship with the director of rad onc residency here will help me out should I later apply to rad onc.

I never thought about the double edged sword you pointed out. Reputation shouldn't be the thing. I need to find a place I might like better. I don't know how much time there is to do research in med school so i'm hoping the stuff I did in grad school will carry over. =P

 

[swampthing]

I've heard the rads PD at NYMC is a very influential character, who makes alot of imp. phone calls come match time for her students. hence, the great match list for rads at nymc.

I visited my buddy at NYMC a lot during med school. He matched in Radiology. He told me the NYMC Radiology residency program director Dr. Susan Rachlin was AWESOME! Not only was she fun to work with and enthusiastic about Rads, she definitely goes to bat for you. I saw his match list and saw that his classmates matched at excellent programs (NYU, Cornell, Columbia, Duke, etc). He also told me he had some people who had no business in matching in Radiology (like himself 😛)...but there they were...MATCHED!

if you're shooting for rad/onc, I would look into the research opportunities in both rad/onc depts. This is crucial to matching in rad/onc since *alot* of candidates go into it with a mudphud & a ton of research.

As for Rad Onc, this is one of the most competitive residencies in the country. MORE COMPETITIVE THAN DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGY. But Not as competitive as Derm or Plastics, but very close. Why? Because there are less than 100 accredited programs in the country. Most programs accept 1-2 residents per year. So you can see why it's so competitive. This is a close knit community. So you will definitely need to rub elbows with these people, do research, and/or publish to be considered in this specialty.

NYMC has a Rad Onc residency program. SLU does not.

 

[Pewl]

As for Rad Onc, this is one of the most competitive residencies in the country. MORE COMPETITIVE THAN DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGY. But Not as competitive as Derm or Plastics, but very close. Why? Because there are less than 100 accredited programs in the country. Most programs accept 1-2 residents per year. So you can see why it's so competitive. This is a close knit community. So you will definitely need to rub elbows with these people, do research, and/or publish to be considered in this specialty.

NYMC has a Rad Onc residency program. SLU does not.

I did my "elbow rubbing" while i was at ucla' rad onc in grad school. I'm certainly not gonna pick a school on the basis of whether or not it has a residency in one particular area. I was intending to do my rad onc rotation in Washington U in st. louis Mallinckrodt center if I go to St. Louis, anyway. The rad onc director here at ucla recommended that place for a rotation.

 

[-Goose-]

I'm certainly not gonna pick a school on the basis of whether or not it has a residency in one particular area.

If I were you (and of course I'm not), I'd think long and hard about this... It sounds like you have very specific interests in rads or rad onc. To me, Not having a home rotation in the field I'm interested in (ortho) is a very big deal. I realize that medical school may change what you want to do, but for applicants like you and I who have taken time since graduating undergrad, I'd bet we have a better idea of what we want to end up matching in four years.

Not having a home X rotation means you will not have fantastic research opportunities during school, no home PD to go to bat for you and make phone calls, you will be out of your 'comfort zone' when doing your all-important elective rotations... a time when you'll probably want the added support and comforts of home.


Just my measly 2 cents.

 

[ms1finally]

Also, can traditionally matching alot of people into rads (or any competitive specialty) be a double-edge sword? I mean its great for the reputation, but consider the extra effort that you might need to stand out from the ~20 (?) of your classmates that are also going for rads... just a thought.

I think that's actually a very good point in many cases, but not with regards to matching in Rads out of NYMC. As a friend an NYMCer mentioned earlier, Dr. Rachlin gets people into rads - not just with her influence with PDs, but she has INCREDIBLE enthusiasm. As an MS1, I get the sense that it's not a matter of competing with each other to match in rads out of NYMC. I talked to an NYMC grad who matched in radiology and he said that in his pre-clinical years he had nothing higher than a pass!!

Obviously Rad-Onc is a different field, but for what it's worth - I've run into Dr. Rachlin in the onc wing of the hospital a couple times - it's kind of on the periphery, so I'm guessing she had a reason for being there and knows people who matter.

 

[Pewl]

Well, that is why I plan to do my rotation at the Mallinckrodt institute across town at WashU. The rad onc residency director here at ucla said that it shouldn't be a problem at all. Mallinckrodt is world famous for rad onc which makes me look forward to it.

I'm a little confused about why swampthing said that it's bad that SLU doesn't have a rad onc residency program. Just because it doesn't have a residency program for rad onc doesn't mean that it doesn't have a rad onc department, and all you need to do a rotation is a rad onc dept.

 

[swampthing]

Well, that is why I plan to do my rotation at the Mallinckrodt institute across town at WashU. The rad onc residency director here at ucla said that it shouldn't be a problem at all. Mallinckrodt is world famous for rad onc which makes me look forward to it.

I'm a little confused about why swampthing said that it's bad that SLU doesn't have a rad onc residency program. Just because it doesn't have a residency program for rad onc doesn't mean that it doesn't have a rad onc department, and all you need to do a rotation is a rad onc dept.

First off, let me explain a little about myself so I can have a little merit under your eyes. I already graduated medical school. When I was going through med school, I developed a strong interest in 2 fields, Rad Onc and Dermatology, and was fortunate enough to have both residency programs affiliated with my med school. I did 2 Rad Onc elective clerkship rotations and 1 year of Rad Onc research at the world-renown National Cancer Institute (NIH, Bethesda, MD). So you can see I took Rad Onc seriously.

Although your theory that you can rotate at Mallinckrodt institute without being a Wash U med student makes sense. You are not guaranteed Mallinckrodt institute's "love and support". You will be considered an outsider. For example, I did 2 Rad Onc clerkship rotations, one at my med school and one at another program. It was very convenient having a home program right there at my med school. I was exposed to them for all 4 years of med school. I could walk right down the street and there they were. I could say "hi", volunteer, and hangout easily. They also had a special interest in me because I was "one of their own" med students. Additionally, my home Rad Onc program had a habit of "taking its own". In contrast, when I did an elective Rad Onc clerkship at another program affiliated with another med school, I only had 4 weeks with them...so I had to work extra hard to influence them I was a good Rad Onc candidate. Plus, they tended to "love" their own more (just like my home program). This concept of loving your "own" generally applies to all specialties, especially the competitive small, tight-knit specialties, such as Rad Onc, Derm, ENT, etc.

So although, you can rotate at Mallinckrodt institute without being a Wash U med student makes sense. You will have to work even harded to get Mallinckrodt institute's "love and support" because most programs tend to have a preferential bias for their "own children" first. Plus, you will have less access to Mallinckrodt institute because you are an outsider and not affiliated with their med school, Wash U. Therefore, unless you have A REALLY STRONG INSIDE CONNECTION at Mallinckrodt institute already, I would seriously reconsider your plan.

 

[Pewl]

Swampthing,

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your input. The only problem right now is that I don't really have a choice in the matter. I'm not picking med schools, med schools are picking me right now. And, at the moment I only have an acceptance at SLU so I'm definitely going to have to play with what I'm dealt. If I end up at a med school that does not have its own rad onc residency I'll just have to find a way to deal with it. In the mean time My criteria for picking a school will be based primarily upon the feel of the school itself.

While we're on the topic of oncology. Just wondering, would you happen to know how competitive it is to get into medical oncology? (regular oncology). Do you have to go through internal medicine first, like cardiology or endocrinology or something?

Thanks!

 

[swampthing]

Swampthing,

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your input. The only problem right now is that I don't really have a choice in the matter. I'm not picking med schools, med schools are picking me right now. And, at the moment I only have an acceptance at SLU so I'm definitely going to have to play with what I'm dealt. If I end up at a med school that does not have its own rad onc residency I'll just have to find a way to deal with it. In the mean time My criteria for picking a school will be based primarily upon the feel of the school itself.

While we're on the topic of oncology. Just wondering, would you happen to know how competitive it is to get into medical oncology? (regular oncology). Do you have to go through internal medicine first, like cardiology or endocrinology or something?

Thanks!

No harm, no foul. I just wanted to give some useful advice since I was really interested in Rad Onc and have friends in the field. I love Rad Onc. However, I love derm more (I have chronic skin disease) and ended up going to Derm instead.

Oncology is fairly easy to get. However, you have to do an Internal Medicine Residency first (3 years), then go to fellowship in Oncology (2 years). Some people do a combined Hematology & Oncology fellowship (3 years).

Check out FREIDA. It describes all the accredited specialties and fellowships:
http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/

Pewl...Congrats on getting accepted into med school...that's the biggest hurdle...I hope you get more med school acceptances so you'll have more options! And if you can, get accepted at Cornell so you can work at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Institute...IT'S THE BOMB 👍

 

[Pewl]

Swampthing,

Could you explain to me the concept of the internship year? I'm a little confused about how that works into the whole residency thing. From what I understand, you apply for residencies so where does the internship year come in? Let's say I wanted to do oncology. So... I know I need to get into internal medicine, but that would be for residency. Where does the internship year come in??

Thanks

 

[swampthing]

Swampthing,

Could you explain to me the concept of the internship year? I'm a little confused about how that works into the whole residency thing. From what I understand, you apply for residencies so where does the internship year come in? Let's say I wanted to do oncology. So... I know I need to get into internal medicine, but that would be for residency. Where does the internship year come in??

Thanks

"Internship" is your first year as a post-graduate (1st year out of med school). There are several types of internships, including Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Surgery, Family Practice, and Transitional. After your 1 year "internship", you can start a residency. Some fields have an internship built into their residency program...meaning you spend both your internship and residency at the same program...generally speaking, internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, and all the surgical residencies have a built in internship.

If you go the Medical Oncology route, then you would do 1 year of Internal Medicine (IM) internship, 2 years of IM residency, and 2 years of Oncology fellowship.

If you go the rad onc route, then you would do 1 year of internship, then 4 years of Rad Onc residency.

"Internship" is a difficult concept to explain...but once you get to med school, you'll figure it out quickly 😀

 

[Pewl]

"Internship" is your first year as a post-graduate (1st year out of med school). There are several types of internships, including Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Surgery, Family Practice, and Transitional. After your 1 year "internship", you can start a residency. Some fields have an internship built into their residency program...meaning you spend both your internship and residency at the same program...generally speaking, internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, and all the surgical residencies have a built in internship.

If you go the Medical Oncology route, then you would do 1 year of Internal Medicine (IM) internship, 2 years of IM residency, and 2 years of Oncology fellowship.

If you go the rad onc route, then you would do 1 year of internship, then 4 years of Rad Onc residency.

"Internship" is a difficult concept to explain...but once you get to med school, you'll figure it out quickly 😀

I also heard that your grades and performance during the first two years are of little importance compared to your 3rd year. Is this true?

Also, if the internship isn't included in the residency, does that mean that you need to apply to that internship separately? Or is there some sort of setup where the residency you got into will take care of it?

 

[swampthing]

I also heard that your grades and performance during the first two years are of little importance compared to your 3rd year. Is this true?

It depends. If you want to go into a competitive field (such as Rad Onc, Rads, Derm, Plastics), then you will want to strive for outstanding grades all the time. But if you want to go into a less competitive field (such as Internal Medicine, Peds, Family Practice, PM&R), then you do not have to kick as$ until 3rd year.

You are correct though...3rd year clerkship grades count 10-20 times more than any class taken during your 1st two years in med school. You will kick as$ 3rd year if you are smart, inquisitive (ask smart questions), and have good people skills.

Also, if the internship isn't included in the residency, does that mean that you need to apply to that internship separately? Or is there some sort of setup where the residency you got into will take care of it?

For some residencies, such as Rad Onc and Rads, you will have to apply to internships and residencies separately.

For other residencies, such as Internal Medicine, Peds, Family Practice, and General Surgery, you do NOT have to apply separately.

 

[Pewl]

It's been 3 months since my interview at NYMC. Why haven't they gotten back to me?! =P

 

[BOBODR]

It's been 3 months since my interview at NYMC. Why haven't they gotten back to me?! =P

it seems most people who have interviewed before december have heard back. They send out a round of acceptances last week. Since you didnt hear, you are most likely going to receive a WL/rejection by snail mail. Guess you started the thread a little prematurely?

 

[singh0113]

Does NYMC send out waitlist decisions via email as well or is it only via snail mail? Are rejections also sent via email? If I don't receive an email within around 8-10 weeks of interviewing, should I assume that it is a rejection? I interviewed on December 5th and I am really worried at this point.

it seems most people who have interviewed before december have heard back. They send out a round of acceptances last week. Since you didnt hear, you are most likely going to receive a WL/rejection by snail mail. Guess you started the thread a little prematurely?

 

[BOBODR]

Does NYMC send out waitlist decisions via email as well or is it only via snail mail? Are rejections also sent via email? If I don't receive an email within around 8-10 weeks of interviewing, should I assume that it is a rejection? I interviewed on December 5th and I am really worried at this point.

Only acceptances are by email. Rejection/WL is snail mail. I wouldnt worry if I was dec 5th yet. They may not have reviewed you....Some decisions take 12 weeks.

 

[singh0113]

Thanks for the info. Does your status page change once a decision is made? I see on the status page that they have an area marked decision.

Only acceptances are by email. Rejection/WL is snail mail. I wouldnt worry if I was dec 5th yet. They may not have reviewed you....Some decisions take 12 weeks.

 

[BOBODR]

Thanks for the info. Does your status page change once a decision is made? I see on the status page that they have an area marked decision.

No