NYU and future

[Bullfan16]

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So for any of you who are in the same situation as myself (ie waiting for NYU to make a decision after having been on hold to retake the DAT)...what are your thoughts? Are any of you in this situation? I have pmed a few people to get some suggestions for next year, however, I wanted to throw this out to everyone to see what they thought.

If it doesnt work out 2004, which programs are "better" to pursue, MS or postbacc? I know AADSAS gpa counts postbac work as it is undergraduate credit, while graduate credit is totally separate. However, after having called a handful of schools and talking to the admission counselors, most said an MS (coursework would be completed by May 2005...research would not be completed and would take 1 semester to finish off) is a good way to go, a few schools even said they consider you to be more serious about getting into dental school if you pursue a Masters (they also said because its graduate-level work it comes the closest to what you are going to be exposed to in d school). That being said 1 school said they wont even look at graduate level coursework (probably because they assume grade inflation). I know a postbacc program would be completed in 2 semesters (with coursework and no certificate) and a lot of postbaccs are located at prestigious universities, however, in the end does it really matter? My feeling is as long as you do SOMETHING, you are giving yourself better chances to matriculate (that and improving the DAT in my case). Am I totally wrong on this? Anyone have experience with a postbacc (after rejection) and an MS (after rejection) and gotten in to dental school the following year (or even the year after that due to lack of classes seen by adcoms in the cycle you are in a program, ie they can only see 1 semesters worth of work in the cycle b/c they review applications around Sept-Dec)? I know the fundamental differences between a postbacc program and an MS, but IS there something I am not seeing here that makes one better than the other? My gpa is ok at a 3.2 (DAT=17), although not outstanding, a postbacc (anywhere from 24-28 credits) could bring it (science gpa) up to maybe a 3.4-3.5, whereas graduate gpa would be whatever I earned in class if I pursued an MS. Anyway, feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[UBTom]

Either one is fine (MS or postbacc).

You can definitely finish a non-thesis MS degree in Biology in 1 year because it's only 33 credits. But if you can only do it as a part-time student due to a full-time job, both the formal Postbacc and MS will take you 2 years or more.

I did the non-thesis MS in biology route (no research for this program) at St. John's University here in NYC. I'm pretty sure there are other universities around the country that offers non-thesis MS programs too. Took me 2 years though because I did it as a part-time student while working full-time (gotta put bread on the table and all that).

Incidentally, it was Dr. Milton Bell (the crusty old Dean of Admissions at NYUCD back then in 1996) who told me I should do an MS to bolster my record.

Didn't get in anywhere on my first application attempt in 1996... Started my MS in 1997. Got into several schools in 2000. And 4 years after that, here I am with my DDS degree.

 

[ecdoesit]

Postbac programs trains students to go into professional school.
Master degree furthers a person's knowledge.
It is up to you to choose which would u like to do.

If dental sch admission is more important to you, go for the postbac program.
This is what I will do bcos re-applying will cause you tons of time(application, secondaries, interviews, etc.) I doubt I will do well in MS degree while splitting my mind on all these things. And your other option is to get a job. Your GPA aint that bad, but I would re-take DAT. Choosing your sch is quite important. Getting a job, particularly in a dental office, gets u more experience. It shows that you are committed as well. And that will cover some application expense. And it wont hurt to have a boss who had gone thru this process and who will give you valuable advice everyday. Plus, if you work like 30 hrs a wk, you could still take courses to improve your GPA(if that's what you think you r weak at)

Hopefully, you will find what you want to do and that decision is compartible with dental sch adcom.

 

[Bullfan16]

You both have offered solid advice. Ecdoesit, I agree that a postbac is beneficial, but I also think an MS can get the job done. There are MS programs in Biomedical Sciences (essentially these are MS1/D1 courses + research...ie immunology, microbiology, physiology, genetics, etc). The ones I am looking at here in Chicago cover the advanced coursework that shows dedication. You also mentioned "Choosing your school is quite important"...do you mean where you apply to dental school or the place where you do a postbac? There are 3 programs I am probably going to apply to. One is an MA non-thesis one year program, the other is at a DO school is a thesis-based program with research and takes a minimum (full time course load) of 2 years, and the last one is a non-thesis, research based 1.5 year (full time) program. The courses in the last program are taken (again for full time students.....which I would be) in fall and spring and the research is completed in the fall of the following year. I am pretty sure I would apply for 2005 just to see if I could get in and eventually for 2006 (if it didnt work out in 2005). The director of the program said he would let me know about finishing the research in the summer of 2005....although highly unlikely. In terms of dental schools thinking about the application, if I did well enough in the 1st and 2nd semesters, I am pretty sure a dental school would "overlook" the fact that you aren't going to be able to do the research.

Additionally, my father is a dentist, so I have been fortunate enough to grill him about his time in dental school and the application cycle. Obviously due to the times in the late 1960's being A LOT different from now, he cant really offer much. He does tell me about his time in school.....sounds like the professors were pretty rough (I am not sure if it is still like this today) but he said it was because his brother who preceeded him (and is now an oral surgeon) was a trouble maker and caused some problems so the professors were out to "get him". I dont know how true or untrue his statements are. In terms of experience, I worked at his office for about 8 months and learned how to pour up models, assist, smooth off temporaries, etc. I received great experience. I am thinking of volunteering this summer (although my volunteer experiences are pretty good) just to bolster the application. In terms of DAT I am not sure if I would take it before (ie after this summer), during a postbac/MS program, or after the program is completed (or sometime in between). Anyway, thanks for the advice. Lastly, I see your signature says you are going to UCLA in the fall....but you mentioned in the post about doing postbac work, did you mean its what you would do if you were in my shoes or that you are going to do this?

In any case, UBTom first and foremost congrats! I am sure it was a long journey for you and I am sure that you are happy to be done. My questions are as follows:

-In the MS you did, did you have to take the GRE before getting in? Also, did you apply early or around this time?
-How "prestigious" is the program you did at St. Johns? Essentially, could I go to any 4-year-institution and complete one of the "special" MS programs I mentioned above or should I scope more carefully and/or look into a "better" school?
-Did you apply for 1999 to any schools at all?
-Was your DAT "good enough"?
-Did you retake DAT before, during, after MS program or go with the DAT you had previously taken?

I think that about covers it. Thanks

-Dave

 

[BiOGoly]

Taking more classes might be a good idea, but i'm not sure if a masters degree is going to give you a huge advantage for next application cycle. You will have already submitted your application for 05' by the time the you start taking classes. Granted you might get in a semester before the schools make their decision and that will look good (if you've done well). However, I think the crux of your trouble is the DAT. Retake it and get at least 18's...your cum GPA is already above the matriculating average for NYU, so i don't think that's your problem. Rather than cough up $20k for a one year masters I think you might be better off taking some advanced undergrad bio courses next year and working hard to get that DAT score up.

 

[UBTom]

In any case, UBTom first and foremost congrats! I am sure it was a long journey for you and I am sure that you are happy to be done. My questions are as follows:

-In the MS you did, did you have to take the GRE before getting in? Also, did you apply early or around this time?
-How "prestigious" is the program you did at St. Johns? Essentially, could I go to any 4-year-institution and complete one of the "special" MS programs I mentioned above or should I scope more carefully and/or look into a "better" school?
-Did you apply for 1999 to any schools at all?
-Was your DAT "good enough"?
-Did you retake DAT before, during, after MS program or go with the DAT you had previously taken?

I think that about covers it. Thanks

Heya Dave,

When I did the MS program back in 1997 at SJU, I did not have to take the GRE. Back then the GRE is only required for the thesis program. These days I think more and more non-thesis programs are also starting to require the GRE though.

St. John's University was not that prestigious a school... They are known for their NCAA Div I basketball program but that's it. 😀 That said, I did have a wonderful time there though.

I don't think the name of the school matters that much... The fact that I got my B.S. from Columbia did not seem to impress anyone during my first round of AADSAS apps.

My DAT score was respectable. 21 DAT/23 PAT. I only took it once. I agree with the other guys your DAT score can probably use some improvement.

The MS might actually be overkill in retrospect (that's why I kind of have a grudge against crusty ol' Dr. Milton Bell). BUT... The way I see it, one way or another you got to do something for a year if you didn't get in this year. Either one will fit the bill, depending on your personal inclination. Both are expensive, both will take a substancial investment of time.

To set the record straight: Postbaccs are NOT any cheaper than MS programs, at least at the schools I went to. At a given school, you get charged the same amount of tuition per credit-hour registered, whether you are an MS or postbacc candidate. When I was an undergrad at Columbia, many of the people in the courses I was taking were postbaccs:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gs/postbacc/tRpp.html

They have to take 40+ credits to complete the program! Postbaccs are NOT cheap by any means.

The dental schools I've dealt with in my second round (the four NY schools) did not have a preference for postbacc over MS people... Don't know about other dental schools though.

Good luck!