NYU and retention

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LITTLED

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Hey guys, I'm a first time poster so hopefully I'm not gonna betray any lingo protocols and what not ;)
I'm going to NYU for an interview in a month or so and while I have heard they have a great clinical program, their retention rate seems to baffle me. Do they really cut out the bottom third of their students? And are these students ALL failing classes or do the just happen to be in the bottom third of the class? If students need help, is it available from student tutors/faculty? Or is it really just survival of the fittest? Having a good help network seems to be important to me, so any feedback on this would be appreciated. If other non-NYU students have input on whether or not their school helps out students in need of academic help, that would also be great to know. Thanks!!
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It truly baffles me where this "1/3 of all freshmen at NYU are dropped" myth is coming from.

From what I have seen, that's just pure bunk. My sister's class (NYUCD '00) had about 240 students in freshman year. 220 of them (including my sister) survived to graduate in 2000 with their DDS degree. Those who did not graduate in 2000 weren't all dismissed either-- There are also students who had to repeat a year.

That sure doesn't look like 1/3 to me..

OF COURSE those who fail courses would be at the bottom of the class (where else could someone who failed possibly be??).. The trick is to recognize early on that you are having difficulty, and take prompt action to rectify the situation-- If you wait until you've flunked two or three sets of midterms before realizing you need to change your ways, you DESERVE to get kicked out!
 
This one has been pounded to death hasn't it? Maybe a sticky would be apppopriate:

NYU urban legends, myths, and other BS:

1. The school plans to dismiss a portion of each entering class.
 
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The school got sick of the rumors floating through my class...people were saying 25 were dismissed last semester.

The offical number from the dean: 6 out of 268 which is 2%. So 98% of my class con't on

Of those 6, 4 failed 4 classes and 2 failed 3 classes. This school is very generous with grades and wants to see all graduate.

If you slack off here, you will pay the price.

2% is a small number and I'm sure it has happened at other schools
 
Well, I'm in the class of 2006, and from what I remember, we had an entering class of 223 students and at the begining of the 2nd year program, we had 195 students that were 4 yrs, 150-ish advanced placement students.

from what I noticed, there weren't too many students that were dismissed at the begining of the first semester, but towards the end, alot of students couldn't keep up with the hectic coursework at the end of the 1st yr and ended up failing 2 class, some of them had previously failed one and ended up with 3 failing classes, probably resulting in dismissal or repeating the year.

Again, these aren't official but I do remember our entering class being about 223 and at the begining of this yr, they told us that we had about 195 4-yr students.
 
i beleive we started with 270, actually... and there's a few people who submitted their withdrawls that haven't been added to the numbers (so, we're NOT at 268, now)...

also, the year's not over (there'll be more)... people don't mention our first class meeting where they asked for 20 volunteers to LEAVE, either. and, lots of curves because of low averages (are the students lazy or could lectures be set up better; we cram for everything-try denying that one).

as for clinicals... upperclassman don't find our training to be all that great... so, you can listen to the better students telling you the school is awesome... or, listen to ALL points of view to come up with your own conclusions.

oh, tutors... help... no, i think you're on your own, bud... that's my opinion.
 
Originally posted by jt639
Well, I'm in the class of 2006, and from what I remember, we had an entering class of 223 students and at the begining of the 2nd year program, we had 195 students that were 4 yrs, 150-ish advanced placement students.
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Exactamundo. If 1/3 of all students who started as freshmen flunk out at NYU, the present 4th-year class should only have 150 non-AP students left!
 
Originally posted by mr.fat_chops
i beleive we started with 270, actually... and there's a few people who submitted their withdrawls that haven't been added to the numbers (so, we're NOT at 268, now)...

also, the year's not over (there'll be more)... people don't mention our first class meeting where they asked for 20 volunteers to LEAVE, either. and, lots of curves because of low averages (are the students lazy or could lectures be set up better; we cram for everything-try denying that one).

as for clinicals... upperclassman don't find our training to be all that great... so, you can listen to the better students telling you the school is awesome... or, listen to ALL points of view to come up with your own conclusions.

oh, tutors... help... no, i think you're on your own, bud... that's my opinion.
Click to expand...

Instead of blaming the curriculum, maybe you want to ask how the other 200+ students who are passing in your class how do they study and pass their exams. If they can, why can't you?

You also didn't bother to mention those who accepted the deferrment had a $45,000 scholarship in it for them too.

Oh, by the way, if you go to some other dental school, most likely you will have to devote a lot more of your time to doing labwork at the expense of your clinic time, since NYU tries to minimize labwork as much as possible to maximize clinical exposure. Count your blessings, because lots of other schools are not as flexible with the clinics as NYU is.

And just getting a tutor is not going to give you good grades-- A tutor CANNOT STUDY FOR YOU. Ultimately, YOU still have to crack open that book and read-- YOU are the one taking the exams, not the tutor. :laugh:

We all know that old proverb: Those who can, do. Those who can't, make excuses.
 
Originally posted by UBTom
Those who can, do. Those who can't, make excuses.
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No, no, Dr. Hong :D

I believe, based on the evidence we've been presented, the axom should be "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach at NYU." Whatcha think?
 
Nothing wrong with the profs at all. just the students who slack and suck.
 
As for teachers not caring. This weekend the anatomy lab was open from 9a-5p and the professors set up a mock practical bec we will have one on fri. They made sure we knew everything

Then from 6p-9p on sat and sun they held review sessions for the written anatomy exam on fri.

On top of that, every class has something called a conference once a week for 3 hours to review the material tought that week and have the students ask any questions. This is built into our schedule and is divided so there is about 40 students per conference session. Every professors gives out old exams and study sheets...geez man, how much more help do you want???
 
Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
As for teachers not caring. This weekend the anatomy lab was open from 9a-5p and the professors set up a mock practical bec we will have one on fri. They made sure we knew everything

Then from 6p-9p on sat and sun they held review sessions for the written anatomy exam on fri.

On top of that, every class has something called a conference once a week for 3 hours to review the material tought that week and have the students ask any questions. This is built into our schedule and is divided so there is about 40 students per conference session. Every professors gives out old exams and study sheets...geez man, how much more help do you want???
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darn.. I wanna go NYU also. Can you hook me up ? I got on waiting list this year. :rolleyes: :p
 
Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
As for teachers not caring. This weekend the anatomy lab was open from 9a-5p and the professors set up a mock practical bec we will have one on fri. They made sure we knew everything

Then from 6p-9p on sat and sun they held review sessions for the written anatomy exam on fri.

On top of that, every class has something called a conference once a week for 3 hours to review the material tought that week and have the students ask any questions. This is built into our schedule and is divided so there is about 40 students per conference session. Every professors gives out old exams and study sheets...geez man, how much more help do you want???
Click to expand...

first of all... the anatomy review is "THIS" semester (which is not even what the discussion has been about up til' now-so, quit changing the subject)... and it happened in NO other class, thus far (and i have NOT heard that this is common practice any year; probably just a cool professor who saw there was room for some "stepping up").

second, i'm NOT BLAMING the professors, but things could have been done better (it's so obvious it hurts).

and, even if people were offered $40k to defer enrollment (i.e., leave)... that doesn't change the fact that the school has "admitted" to getting in trouble with the class size in the past. shoot, open your eyes and stop acting like there aren't any GREED issues that might need resolving.

and, as a FIRST year... i'm not sure how much of an expert you are about our clinical experience. the most common phrase used by upperclassman across the board is "self-taught dentistry."

finally, what professors give you as study guides (particularly in the REAL classes)... is NOT even close to enough (in biochem' it was totally misleading, in fact-and i did well in that classs, too). nor is rehashing the same crap (that won't help) during conference.

if you wanna do well at NYU, you pretty much see what the professors is touching upon, realize that the exams are gonna probably be totally different animal and spend some serious time getting all transcripts and exams possible... why do you think so many people skip classes? i mean, get real...
 
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Originally posted by UBTom
Instead of blaming the curriculum, maybe you want to ask how the other 200+ students who are passing in your class how do they study and pass their exams. If they can, why can't you?

And just getting a tutor is not going to give you good grades-- A tutor CANNOT STUDY FOR YOU. Ultimately, YOU still have to crack open that book and read-- YOU are the one taking the exams, not the tutor. :laugh:

We all know that old proverb: Those who can, do. Those who can't, make excuses.
Click to expand...

?why don't we ask the question, why did over 200 students fail the basic tissues exam? (of which i was not one; i guess i figured it out eventually, huh?)

hmmm... how does such a phenomenon occur within such a wonderful environment???

well... why listen to a SLACKER, though...
 
Dr. Roy's exams were straight from his study guides. They are on his website and Vitalbook

Wishe did the same thing. If you read your vitalbook maybe you would have noticed them. And why did 200 fail...bec no one studied over break!!!

I understand you need to vent, so go ahead bec you are acting like there is some conspiracy here when there isn't.

I'm not saying this school is perfect, but no where near the level you are trying to put it. Why else would we get a kick ass acreditation??? They did interview hundreds of student and faculty.
 
And you know that basic tissues exam was a fluke.

On avg only 10 people failed the other exams. My God...epi had a 86 avg!!!
 
Mr.Fat_chops:

Have you ever sat in on a dental school admissions committee? As an upperclassman, I HAVE. Every year, adcoms at EVERY dental school need to accept more people than the actual class size, because many applicants have been accepted to more than 1 school and may decide to go elsewhere. Guess what? Sometimes more acceptees than expected shows up with their deposit, perhaps because they couldn't get into their "reach" school. This is something NOBODY can ever predict-- to attribute to the overfilling of the class to "greed" is just STUPID.

And by definition, those who accepted the deferment are COMING BACK-- They didn't "leave" and go to another school.

I hate to break this to you, but learning clinical techniques is pretty much the same at every school. Before starting a procedure, you are expected to have an idea of what you will be doing, even if you have never done the procedure before. There is no such thing as a dental school where you have one instructor who will stand next to you for the entire 3-hour appointment!

If you passed Histo, GOOD FOR YOU! Instead of bitching about the rest of the class if you did well in that course, how about concentrating on the other courses in which you are not doing well, eh? I'd say that's a more productive use of your time.

Maybe you are running with the wrong crowd, who knows. You might want to hang out with those students who are doing well and study with them (see what material they are concentrating on), if you are so afraid of failing because you studied the wrong material.

Dental School is a trial, a test of your intestinal fortitude. Even the successful dental students (including me, heh) will complain now and then, but unlike the flunkers who blame their own failings on everything else but themselves, we devote our energy to DEALING WITH IT! If you can't put up with all the crap ANY dental school is sure to throw at you, then you should consider another career!
 
i am to busy to read all that crap...

but, i'm quite familiar with whatever process you were trying to explain to me... i've been around the block enough times to comprehend such things and things like how to study... i heard it all before MANY times...
 
Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
And you know that basic tissues exam was a fluke.

On avg only 10 people failed the other exams. My God...epi had a 86 avg!!!
Click to expand...

?fluke?... oh, that a GOOD ONE.

see... for someone who beleives everything happens for a reason (that reason being that people just "suck"-and you don't), i find it very surprising that you know the word "fluke"!!!
 
Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
Dr. Roy's exams were straight from his study guides. They are on his website and Vitalbook

Wishe did the same thing. If you read your vitalbook maybe you would have noticed them. And why did 200 fail...bec no one studied over break!!!

I understand you need to vent, so go ahead bec you are acting like there is some conspiracy here when there isn't.

I'm not saying this school is perfect, but no where near the level you are trying to put it. Why else would we get a kick ass acreditation??? They did interview hundreds of student and faculty.
Click to expand...

well... i DID read the vitalbook and all your bla bla bla... and, well it's NOT worth ANYTHING... we "all" KNOW THAT (that's why some people never ever touch it and still get A's).

in fact, soon as i STOPPED reading the vital book, well my second exam scores went up (WAY up)... hmmm... ?any correlation?

i don't beleived i ever said there was a "conspiracy".. and, YES ther are A LOT of good things about NYU (i actually like the students here a lot more than just about any other school i've went to).

see... if you were right about lazy, sucking or whatever... hell, you win... but, you are so far from the truth (possibly because you may have some years of life ahead of you until you do a better job reading between the lines)... that you might need to evaluate your own professionalism and ego, for a minute...
 
Originally posted by mr.fat_chops
i am to busy to read all that crap...
Click to expand...

"Busy?" LOL, looks like you log in here often enough.

I don't care if you are busy or not, but maybe other readers will realize that there are better sources of info than someone who seems only interested in posting his sour-grapes resentment!

And if you can comprehend study techniques and such, then put up or shut up! Get that appeal in and pass all your courses! The vast majority of your classmates did on their first try. If you can't do it a second time around, you SHOULD look for another career.

You know, your complaints would sound a lot more credible if you are kicking ass and taking names and passing everything.. :laugh:
 
Originally posted by UBTom
Mr.Fat_chops:

Have you ever sat in on a dental school admissions committee? As an upperclassman, I HAVE. Every year, adcoms at EVERY dental school need to accept more people than the actual class size, because many applicants have been accepted to more than 1 school and may decide to go elsewhere. Guess what? Sometimes more acceptees than expected shows up with their deposit, perhaps because they couldn't get into their "reach" school. This is something NOBODY can ever predict-- to attribute to the overfilling of the class to "greed" is just STUPID.

And by definition, those who accepted the deferment are COMING BACK-- They didn't "leave" and go to another school.

I hate to break this to you, but learning clinical techniques is pretty much the same at every school. Before starting a procedure, you are expected to have an idea of what you will be doing, even if you have never done the procedure before. There is no such thing as a dental school where you have one instructor who will stand next to you for the entire 3-hour appointment!

If you passed Histo, GOOD FOR YOU! Instead of bitching about the rest of the class if you did well in that course, how about concentrating on the other courses in which you are not doing well, eh? I'd say that's a more productive use of your time.

Maybe you are running with the wrong crowd, who knows. You might want to hang out with those students who are doing well and study with them (see what material they are concentrating on), if you are so afraid of failing because you studied the wrong material.

Dental School is a trial, a test of your intestinal fortitude. Even the successful dental students (including me, heh) will complain now and then, but unlike the flunkers who blame their own failings on everything else but themselves, we devote our energy to DEALING WITH IT! If you can't put up with all the crap ANY dental school is sure to throw at you, then you should consider another career!
Click to expand...

man... i don't need faculty up my butt for 3 hours... and i DO come in knowing what i'm doing (that's why all my practicals were over 90%-that's not what killed me)...

anyway... i've got a hunch that if nyu doesn't offer the repeat, i'll be back in the game, elsewhere...
 
Originally posted by UBTom
"Busy?" LOL, looks like you log in here often enough.

I don't care if you are busy or not, but maybe other readers will realize that there are better sources of info than someone who seems only interested in posting his sour-grapes resentment!

And if you can comprehend study techniques and such, then put up or shut up! Get that appeal in and pass all your courses! The vast majority of your classmates did on their first try. If you can't do it a second time around, you SHOULD look for another career.

If you are kicking ass and taking names and passing everything, then your complaints would sound a lot more credible you know. :laugh:
Click to expand...

i don't log on all the time, bro... (hell, certainly no more than YOU).

kicking ass on exams doesn't help when it's a little too late, i guess you're right... and, i think i will be shutting up, too...

but... i will say this. when i started nailing those exams, the dudes who laughed at me changed their tunes quick... now, they're the guys who are sad to see me go (those guys kept bugging me to help with their anatomey,too).
 
Originally posted by mr.fat_chops
i don't log on all the time, bro... (hell, certainly no more than YOU).
Click to expand...

Um, if you as a freshman have as much free time as a senior who is 104 days away from graduation, something is wrong with the picture! :laugh:

And you SHOULD continue to try to pass all your exams. What better way to convince the appeals committee than by showing that you are putting out the effort?

By the way... Instead of going out of your way to annoy Brocnizer, maybe you ought to treat him to coffee at StarBuck's and ask him HOW he used Vitalbook to study for and pass his exams. As someone who survived first semester with his academic standing intact, maybe he juuuuust might know something you didn't.

Enough with the sour grapes.. Go study, young man. :D
 
thanks guys ,

this information is really helping me to prepare my mind regarding education in USA.

actually I am having an interveiw at NYU on 12 feb so lets see how I feel out there.

ketu
 
Originally posted by UBTom
maybe you ought to treat him to coffee at StarBuck's and ask him HOW he used Vitalbook to study for and pass his exams.
Click to expand...

HA! After "using" Vitalbook for 7 months now, I'm fairly confident that it doesn't help anybody study or pass their exams ;)
 
Gav,
At all my interviews I have always asked about vitalbook. The schools who dont use them have told me Vitalbook is worthless (not in those words of course). However, other schools, like UNLV, who use them, make the idea sound great. Since your school DOES use them and your saying its worthless; I am starting to beleive that it really is.

Is that really the case?
 
I like vital book for one reason: Very easy to find anwser to particular questions. It also helps me make very good study guides since I copy and paste a lot of the pictures, charts...etc

When it comes to reading it is worthless. I still like to have it in hand. Thank god all printing here is free. Although it is very nice to only have to carry around my laptop and not 135 books!!!
 
Two thumbs up for Mr. fatchop who has the courage to tell the truth about his school. Any of us here are tired of UBTom? I think many are. haha...
 
the vitabook is designed not only as a textbook source for students to read passages out of, but its also a source for information for dental students when they are in clinic, so you can look up something in particular when you need to instead of fumbling through multiple books, you can search them all at once.

i haven't tried it myself for that particular reason but it seems like a good idea.. the computer quizes they give us seem to focus on case based problems and require the use of the vitabook to find resources to cite, so they know you know how to use 'em... in the end, I think its a nice technological advancement that can be useful if you put in the time to learn how to use it...

but ya, seriously, its only useful for particular questions, you can't really read it chapter by chapter, i tried for biochem and gave up after two chapters.. it takes too much time
 
Originally posted by tropicalwind
Two thumbs up for Mr. fatchop who has the courage to tell the truth about his school. Any of us here are tired of UBTom? I think many are. haha...
Click to expand...

LOL, it's amusing to hear someone praise sour-grapes resentment as "courageous"..

Who would a sensible person believe more:

- The student who is doing well but criticizes his school for shortcomings...

- Or the student who is failing and blames the school, just like the fox in Aesop's fables who says the grapes hanging on the vines must be sour because he could not reach them?

I know which one smarter folks would tend to believe.. haha...

Proverb of the day: the only thing you can make from sour grapes is whine.. :laugh:
 
Last time I mention anything on this topic: 97.7% of the class passed. I think this is the vast majority.

And it is 268. The class was 270 students: one was dismissed for cheating and the other had to leave for health reasons. So the class of 2007 is now 262.

Mr. fat chops, wish you all the best with your next application to d-school if you can't come back in the fall. I do not know if you heard, one of the 6 that were dismissed is coming back as a freshman for the class of 2008.
 
Chops, is there a dental assistant forum you can move your bad excuses to. I believe that would be more suitable for you. And that way real dental students could continue to discuss the issues that we face, without annoying bouts of your cry-baby, the world is against me tantrums.
 
bro... if you're such "HOT TURD"... maybe YOU ought to look into a forum where you don't have to be bothered by such "LOSERS."

i mean... you're obviously charming and must be able to carry a stimulating conversation (likely about yourself)... so, good luck with that...
 
Inspired by the "OFFICIAL Pre-Dental Forum Person of the Year"

The 2003-2004 award for battles on SDN in the Predental Forum/Dental Forum goes too...

*drumroll*

UBTom!

(with Aphistis a close second)

:horns:
 
Moi? A harmless old man like me? Ya got the wrong guy! :p
 
larryt,

I am goign for an interview to NYU on 12th of February 04 .
Can you suggest me some tips to be careful of, and how much are your scores if you dont mind sharing with me.

ketu
 
I went into my regional interview at San Diego with a 3.0 overall GPA, 2.9 science GPA

DAT scores (if I remember right) were

Academic 22
PAT 21
Reading 27
Math 24
Bio 20
Chem 20
Ochem 19

I guess I had some decent letters of rec and I had worked for two yrs after I graduated from Berkeley. I shadowed a few dentists but that was about the extent of my dental background. I tried to spin my volunteer experiences and things like that into things similar to the dental field.

Oh ya, if the Dean happens to come by your interview, the most important screening (according to him) that you can do is an oral cancer screening... I'm sure he'll be impressed if you said that. He's very big on oral cancer. =)
 
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