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Nyu Dental
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Hi Steve,
Well, I was accepted to NYUCD, but turned down the offer after talking to some people and plus of course of the fact that I was accepted to U-PENN. This is what I heard about the school:
Con:
1. Classes are overcrowded- 230people per class. When most schools have100.
2. A lot of students get kicked out for not meeting minimum requirements-->30-40people.
3. The staff doesn't give much of their time outseide of class to help their students(all the school cares about is how you pay them).
4. Alot of internaional students
5. Went down in reputation
Pro:
1. Will have a large # of patients--> great practical experience
2. NYU is supposed to become and Ivy League in 2004
3. Had a good reputation some time ago
I hope this helps.
Well, I was accepted to NYUCD, but turned down the offer after talking to some people and plus of course of the fact that I was accepted to U-PENN. This is what I heard about the school:
Con:
1. Classes are overcrowded- 230people per class. When most schools have100.
2. A lot of students get kicked out for not meeting minimum requirements-->30-40people.
3. The staff doesn't give much of their time outseide of class to help their students(all the school cares about is how you pay them).
4. Alot of internaional students
5. Went down in reputation
Pro:
1. Will have a large # of patients--> great practical experience
2. NYU is supposed to become and Ivy League in 2004
3. Had a good reputation some time ago
I hope this helps.
In response to the above,
I have decided to attend NYU this fall. I also got accepted to a few other universities including state schools. Before I interviewed at NYU, it was my last choice. However, contrary to 'what I had read on this forum', my visit to NYU just completely reversed my opinion.
1. I agree the class size is big, but they are broken down into smaller groups. So the classes actually have fewer students than some other schools.
2. NYU does accept a lot of students, some of whom get thrown out because of valid reasons,
a. they come from backgrounds where they jumped from HS to college and started dental school the minute they graduated with a BS(because the parents literally pushed them into it). Some of these students are not prepared mentally for the rigors of dental school, or plainly they are not sure if dentistry is for them. So they do poorly in school and get kicked out.
b. Some have to leave for personal family reasons.....life is full of uncertainties.
On an average percent basis, every dental school usually see's about 10% of the class dropping out sometime during the first two years. Since NYU accepts 230 students, and 20 students drop out, the situation is really the same as at any other dental school. If one is not really ready and committed towards dental school, then NYU is not the place to put your bets on.
3. Unlike at some other schools, NYU will not hand-feed their students. If the student needs assistance or academic help, the instructors are more than willing to help out, BUT the STUDENT has to seek help! THe instructor will not come to the student who failed a test and ask if he/she needs help. I have spoken to a few students up there, and they have good things to say about the instructors being available.
I do not have any inhibitions about seeking help, so I know I will be fine.
4. The last time the dental schools were officially ranked, NYU was near the top. How far below could it have gone in 4-5 years??!!! THink about it.
The only place it has gone down to the bottom is on this forum, where a few 3.9ers who got accepted to Ivy leagues posted their opinion about the 'expensive school' and that started a chain reaction.
I have never acted entirely on people's opinions. I respect opinions, but give merit to my own judgement as well.
I do see some cons about NYU, but they are not sufficiently more in number than other schools.
I will put down the list of PRO/CONS that I see in a little bit....gotta go pick up my nephew from school.
My friend is a senior at NYU and loves it. Classes are big but clinic hours are split and more accomodating for patients who work. My friend also does work at the faculty practice which is a good experience - plus lots to do in NY city but expensive.
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liya,
Where did you read or hear that NYU is going to be an Ivy League?
Thanks.
Where did you read or hear that NYU is going to be an Ivy League?
Thanks.
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I was curious about the Ive League status so I wrote to Amy Knowles assistant admin at NYU and her response was:
" I am not aware of an Ivy League status for NYU."
" I am not aware of an Ivy League status for NYU."
Just wanted to let some of you people (who are concerned with NYU's attrition rates) know:
1. Spoke to a first year student at NYU (first year is ending soon). I was told that about 10 people have either dropped or been kicked out this year. Some of those 10 just could not handle dental school, and the others failed 3 science courses and were let go. So if you think about it, these 10 would have gone out no matter what dental school they were at.
This first year student (who did not come in with stellar gpa/stats) is doing very well at NYU because she came in with a mature attitude and is working hard; has received consistently good grades, is very happy with the curriculum structure, told me the instructors are very helpful if you seek help, I think their clinic introduction is in year 1 as well!.
2. Spoke to a dentist who graduated not too long ago from UOP. I was told that their class started with 130 students and about 98 of them actually graduated after 3 years.
My point is: The attrition rates are very similar at ALL places. So people considering NYU, don't let SDN falsely alter your opinion.
1. Spoke to a first year student at NYU (first year is ending soon). I was told that about 10 people have either dropped or been kicked out this year. Some of those 10 just could not handle dental school, and the others failed 3 science courses and were let go. So if you think about it, these 10 would have gone out no matter what dental school they were at.
This first year student (who did not come in with stellar gpa/stats) is doing very well at NYU because she came in with a mature attitude and is working hard; has received consistently good grades, is very happy with the curriculum structure, told me the instructors are very helpful if you seek help, I think their clinic introduction is in year 1 as well!.
2. Spoke to a dentist who graduated not too long ago from UOP. I was told that their class started with 130 students and about 98 of them actually graduated after 3 years.
My point is: The attrition rates are very similar at ALL places. So people considering NYU, don't let SDN falsely alter your opinion.
Apparently, quite far. The ADEA has reservations about several schools, and NYU is near the top of the list. Quite honestly, the program needs to be revamped.
Hey Gavin,
Does the ADEA site talk about "their reservations about several schools", or has this info been secretly passed down to you by your contacts at ADEA?? Just curious since I like to read facts for myself.
I would really like to see the list of schools that the ADEA has reservations about. Kindly support your statement and post the list on SDN.
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Please tell me the year this dentist graduated and I will confirm this attrition number. I have seen <b>every</b> photo list from UOP in the last 12 years, and at most 4-7 names are marked off per year. <b>AT MOST.</b>
Once you let me know the year of this huge attrition @ UOP <b>Rhea</b>, I will check the year and confirm what you have said here.
<b>Steve</b>, if you look up my previous posts, I stand by what I said about NYU. I know far too many people who ended up <b>tolerating</b> the school. In fact, there's a current UOP senior who dropped out of NYU and went to UOP...look hard and you'll find him- his opinion echoes what <B>many, many</b> say about it. I won't repeat them...as you all know what they're going to say. Why end up tolerating a school...when you should enjoy it. Honestly, no matter where you end up- <b>you'll learn to adjust</b>...it's just a matter of how much adjusting you like to do. I am needy and like to be pampered a little. If you like it tough and rough...enjoy NYU. And Rhea, if you plan on returning to CA- and rejected a CA school offer in lieu of NYU, may the Gods be with you.......
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is NYU really that bad? coz i got selected for this fall.
i know that dental school is not a bed of roses in any school anywhere in the world.u have to under go lot of physical stress apart frm theory.
considering what many pple r saying abt NYU in this thread i am confused a little.not that i have heard of any school being best in all aspects.why is it that only nyu students r complaining and not the same with other school?
i know that dental school is not a bed of roses in any school anywhere in the world.u have to under go lot of physical stress apart frm theory.
considering what many pple r saying abt NYU in this thread i am confused a little.not that i have heard of any school being best in all aspects.why is it that only nyu students r complaining and not the same with other school?
Richard Lechner's post is very enlightening..and very true. Dental school is tough everywhere Vishu...but it does lighten up and get easier. NYU is a whole different ballgame, if you want some email addresses of students who graduated in the past two years, PM me and I will send them to you. You can talk to them yourself.
And ask yourself the question...if NYU students complain so much about their school, does it tell you something? I still have yet to hear from <b>Rhea</b> about her claim of this huge attrition at UOP......again <b>Rhea</b>, I ask you for the year of this NYU-like attrition at UOP you claim to have happened and I'll confirm it.
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But every dental student I have spoken with unanimously says that NYU is the dental school you can count on being accepted to. I heard it's the one school you won't be rejected from. That speaks volumes. If it's so easy to get into, then I'm sure that shows you that the demand for the school is not that great. And that lack of demand is probably due to something.
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Why are so many of you folks dumping on the good guy. Granted, NYU takes in a lot of students, its tution is on the high end, and the cost of living in NYC is no bargain. But I personally commend NYU for reaching out to students with marginal undergrad stats and giving them a chance to find success.
The greatness of the American educational system is that it allows for the fact that people often need more than one chance to succeed. NYU dental school is a prime example.
The greatness of the American educational system is that it allows for the fact that people often need more than one chance to succeed. NYU dental school is a prime example.
So sorry to keep you waiting for so long, uop2001.....I was enjoying a grand vacation out of the country!!! Had a gala time and was overjoyed to see some mail from NYU on my return. The Gods are with me and have pointed me towards NYU. 🙂
May the Gods be with you and help you grow up. The dentist I spoke to, graduated from UOP in 1995. You may check up on your sources, but why would I believe an immature guy who misunderstood my post. I was in no way putting down UOP; I simply used UOP to illustrate the point that other schools have similar attrition rates as NYU. I do not have a high-handed attitude towards any dental school - I respect them all. Each school has it's own unique contribution to the dental schooling system. UOP is no doubt a good school, but that does not mean NYU is not. Try to let it sink in slowly. Nevertheless, I am a bit disappointed that you did not learn to distinguish healthy discussion from hostility after spending 3 good years at UOP. I hope I don't come out like that out of NYU!
I am expecting more 'bold-ed' comments from you, and might even reply if I get a moment to spare. ( I try to devote most of my precious time towards more informative, healthy and mature discussions).
Take care!
I am sorry you mistook curiousity and disagreement as hostility...as this was not the case. The attrition rate in 95 was nowhere near NYUs- but it really doesn't matter. You seem like a driven and focused individual, and I'm sure you'll succeed.
Condescending replies like yours are fine, and in all honesty, a little funny. Nonetheless, as I have stated in all my posts about NYU, you'll get used to <u>wherever you are</u>.
Good luck at NYU, I hope you enjoy it. You will follow <b>legions</b> of happy graduates.
😉
UOP2001
Did you find out the attrition rate of UOPs dental class in 95?
BTW---how do you find out this information?
Did you find out the attrition rate of UOPs dental class in 95?
BTW---how do you find out this information?
he/she has nothing else to do, but to find useless info about the school, and boast about it..... beleive me u gonna be a dentist and not anythin higher if u come out of uop or nyu, so comeon, don't be so childish....
Viraj
Viraj
I dont know about that Rhea, I dont really know any other school where 10 people drop out of the first year, let alone during the whole 4 years. Most likely they wouldnt even have been accepted at other schools.
Viraj
True, but it depends on how much harder you are gonna have to work at a school, becuase they dont prepare you adequatly enough, some indicators? Try board scores, just ask NYU's board scores versus some other schools. Also if you plan on going into a specialty look at from which schools more students are accepted at, Im sure that will tell you something about the programs.
But in either case, no one should be dogging schools, just giving honest opions, insights about the schools, Dental School is what you make of it, and people need to just let others know what they know about the schools and not start a fight about defending/dogging a school.
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There is no difference between an honest opinion and a "dogging" of a school. Someone's honest opinion may be that a school is awful. Should we expect them to lie and say otherwise? You just have to be strong enough to tolerate different opinions(good or bad) on a message board.
Scandalousj,
Would 4 students drop out their first year at an alternate dental school?
10 out of 235 is about 4%.
At another school with a class size of 80, if 4 dropped out, then that would be 5%.
Some students are just not cut-out for dental school, and there are SUCH students at every university. The adcom is simply looking at grades from your BS degree and how one come's across at the interview. But they do not know that once dental school starts and students have to start carving, etc, some of these students would not be able to relish dental school. From my undergrad, I knew a lot of people who were sheer book-worms. They would get all As in lecture courses, but totally sucked at all sort of labwork. These people were even real bad at their interpersonal skills. I am sure they would be able to get thru an interview, but getting along with the same class for 4 years would be hard on them.
Anyways, I was just thinking maybe a percentage comparison with other schools is only fair. I wasn't making up the attrition rate when I used UOP as an example. But despite that, UOP is still a good school for someone wanting to do general destistry. I guess there is a point I am trying to make, but don't know if I have done so, effectively.
Nevertheless, I do appreciate your healthy attitude towards seeing posts as honest opinions and not aggression. That is what this forum is supposed to be for. Like I mentioned earlier, before I started interviewing at dental schools, NYU was my last choice due to the fact that I had read so much negativity about NYU on SDN. However, seeing things first hand and speaking to current students has changed my mind. The campus was not any better or worse than so many other dental schools I had visited. The curriculum is comparable to many other dental schools as well. I guess it boiled down to what my attidude would be as a student, and I have faith in myself. For me, I think I have made the right choice. The added bonus is that I will get to experience life in NYC!!!
Hi everyone. I was also wondering where people plan on living while at NYU. I've heard most students stay on 26th st. the first year, but it seems pretty expensive. Has anyone found a place/roommate yet?
Cons or no cons, and Ivy Leauge '04 or not (in this case, not): in choosing schools I always trust my gut , and after interviewing/touring at several schools, my gut told me to go to NYU. YAY NYUCD'07! I am looking forward to starting and can't wait to meet all of you in the fall. I just sent in my housing app, and am planning on living in a studio @ the 26th st. apartment (15-16 grand for the year (yeek!) but very convenient location). Where are the rest of you planning on living?
res03
NYUCD'07
res03
NYUCD'07
How is it that so many people open their mouths (or type with their fingers) when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about?
#1. The Ivy League is just a sports league like any other sports league. It just happens to be the oldest and so has some good, established schools. There are 8 of them, and only 8, and there are no plans for adding more to the league. For those who wish to know them, they are : Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, UPenn, Cornell, Dartmouth. The fact that a school is good, or private, or ranked highly by U.S. News and World Report, does not make it an Ivy League school. Conversely, Ivy league status does not necessarily mean that these 8 schools are the best. Stanford and Duke are great schools and are probably ranked above UPenn or Cornell, even though they are not Ivy League.
#2. Whoever posted that NYUCD has only 10 dropouts/failures is sorely mistaken. My sister went to NYUCD and between 1st and 2nd year, she had lost 40 classmates. Yes, FORTY! That makes the attrition rate a tad worse now doesn't it?
#3. Why are attritions rates that important to people anyway? Assuming that you are confident in your abilities and are willing to work hard to stay on top of your game, you shouldn't have a problem at any of these schools. Yes, there are some people who don't take dental school seriously, or simply can't cut it, but they shouldn't be getting to the point of seeing patients anyway. I agree with the one person who gave kudos to NYU for giving people the opportunity to prove themselves in the first two years of dental school. Once accepted and enrolled, it is the responsibility of that student to learn the material so that he/she doesn't wind up hurting or even killing a patient. If a student does not fulfill these responsibilities, then he/she should not be given the opportunity or privilege of becoming a doctor. That's an absolute assumption for anyone who receives an MD/DDS/DMD or for any health care provider for that matter. I feel sorry for those who wind up wasting a year or two of their lives, as well as 50 to 100 grand, with nothing to show for it but the stress and disappointment of no degree, but I am also grateful to med and dental schools for holding certain standards so that I don't wind up the victim of some incompetent practitioner.
I, myself, am in dental school right now. I am about to finish my first year at Columbia. Choosing between NYU and Columbia was a difficult decision for me. I had a nice scholarship from NYU, my sister went there (and liked it), it's in a better part of New York, and the pool of patients cannot be beaten. Columbia has the name/reputation, a smaller class, good board scores, and gets their students into specialties. Ultimately I chose Columbia because I will probably wind up specializing, and I feel that Columbia will open more doors for me in that regard. Having been through a year of Columbia now, I have gone through several moments of regret. I often feel like a second-rate citizen (Columbia dents take their hard sciences with the meds), and going to school in Washington Heights is no picnic. However, when it comes time to apply to specialty programs, I am certain that I will be thanking my lucky stars for having chosen Columbia. The top of NYU's class get into specialties as well, but it's still nice to have that Columbia name working for me. Every school has its pros and cons. My advice to those applying is to get in touch with students from each school to get REAL facts, and not SDN rumors. By all means, use SDN as a start, but don't base your decisions on what's written on here.
Anyway, I've spent enough time venting. Please folks. Don't go spouting out "facts" if you do not know them to be true. Not only is it frustrating for those of us reading who know otherwise, but the things written on this site actually affect people's decisions.
#1. The Ivy League is just a sports league like any other sports league. It just happens to be the oldest and so has some good, established schools. There are 8 of them, and only 8, and there are no plans for adding more to the league. For those who wish to know them, they are : Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, UPenn, Cornell, Dartmouth. The fact that a school is good, or private, or ranked highly by U.S. News and World Report, does not make it an Ivy League school. Conversely, Ivy league status does not necessarily mean that these 8 schools are the best. Stanford and Duke are great schools and are probably ranked above UPenn or Cornell, even though they are not Ivy League.
#2. Whoever posted that NYUCD has only 10 dropouts/failures is sorely mistaken. My sister went to NYUCD and between 1st and 2nd year, she had lost 40 classmates. Yes, FORTY! That makes the attrition rate a tad worse now doesn't it?
#3. Why are attritions rates that important to people anyway? Assuming that you are confident in your abilities and are willing to work hard to stay on top of your game, you shouldn't have a problem at any of these schools. Yes, there are some people who don't take dental school seriously, or simply can't cut it, but they shouldn't be getting to the point of seeing patients anyway. I agree with the one person who gave kudos to NYU for giving people the opportunity to prove themselves in the first two years of dental school. Once accepted and enrolled, it is the responsibility of that student to learn the material so that he/she doesn't wind up hurting or even killing a patient. If a student does not fulfill these responsibilities, then he/she should not be given the opportunity or privilege of becoming a doctor. That's an absolute assumption for anyone who receives an MD/DDS/DMD or for any health care provider for that matter. I feel sorry for those who wind up wasting a year or two of their lives, as well as 50 to 100 grand, with nothing to show for it but the stress and disappointment of no degree, but I am also grateful to med and dental schools for holding certain standards so that I don't wind up the victim of some incompetent practitioner.
I, myself, am in dental school right now. I am about to finish my first year at Columbia. Choosing between NYU and Columbia was a difficult decision for me. I had a nice scholarship from NYU, my sister went there (and liked it), it's in a better part of New York, and the pool of patients cannot be beaten. Columbia has the name/reputation, a smaller class, good board scores, and gets their students into specialties. Ultimately I chose Columbia because I will probably wind up specializing, and I feel that Columbia will open more doors for me in that regard. Having been through a year of Columbia now, I have gone through several moments of regret. I often feel like a second-rate citizen (Columbia dents take their hard sciences with the meds), and going to school in Washington Heights is no picnic. However, when it comes time to apply to specialty programs, I am certain that I will be thanking my lucky stars for having chosen Columbia. The top of NYU's class get into specialties as well, but it's still nice to have that Columbia name working for me. Every school has its pros and cons. My advice to those applying is to get in touch with students from each school to get REAL facts, and not SDN rumors. By all means, use SDN as a start, but don't base your decisions on what's written on here.
Anyway, I've spent enough time venting. Please folks. Don't go spouting out "facts" if you do not know them to be true. Not only is it frustrating for those of us reading who know otherwise, but the things written on this site actually affect people's decisions.
I got a PM that the person who posted that NYU only loses about 10 students did indeed do her research by asking a current 1st year. My response is once again 3-fold.
1. The original poster may have started with that statement, but then goes on to make a very big assumption. She calculates attrition rate based on only these 10. Let us not forget that the first year is not even over yet at NYU. These 10 people are gone after just the first semester. Once this spring semester finishes, there will be more, and even more still after the second year. So, when getting the facts, you might want to ask current 3rd and 4th years. They know the most about the school and will give you a better sense of what is really happening.
2. These numbers change every year I am sure, but during my sister's time at NYUCD, it was pretty standard to lose 40-50 students from each class before graduation. NYU simply doesn't have the room for 230+ students in clinic.
3. As I stated in my previous post, don't worry so much about attrition rates. It is true that some people simply cant handle the material. If you feel that you are one of these people, this is something you must consider BEFORE starting dental school. Dental school is no joke. If you start school with a lack of confidence, you are just going to psych yourself out. But, work hard and you should have no problem.
1. The original poster may have started with that statement, but then goes on to make a very big assumption. She calculates attrition rate based on only these 10. Let us not forget that the first year is not even over yet at NYU. These 10 people are gone after just the first semester. Once this spring semester finishes, there will be more, and even more still after the second year. So, when getting the facts, you might want to ask current 3rd and 4th years. They know the most about the school and will give you a better sense of what is really happening.
2. These numbers change every year I am sure, but during my sister's time at NYUCD, it was pretty standard to lose 40-50 students from each class before graduation. NYU simply doesn't have the room for 230+ students in clinic.
3. As I stated in my previous post, don't worry so much about attrition rates. It is true that some people simply cant handle the material. If you feel that you are one of these people, this is something you must consider BEFORE starting dental school. Dental school is no joke. If you start school with a lack of confidence, you are just going to psych yourself out. But, work hard and you should have no problem.
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NYU takes over 200 students. With the limit number of clinical spots, some student on the wrong end of the bell curve are often times cut from the program. But they take almost anyone that applies...almost🙁
I wasn't going to give my input, but seems like you are refering to my statement from a previous post.
First of all, let me clarify that when I mentioned the attrition rates of a couple of schools (NYU,UOP), it was based on first hand information. Also, if you re-read my post, I said that 'so far' 10 people have dropped out of NYU. I 'did not' say that over 4 years 10 people drop out of NYU. So I guess it was just a reader's error.
Secondly, keep in mind that most people who are not able to handle the dental curriculum 'will' drop out mostly in the first semester and some gradually during the first two years of the program. I am making a bet that in the spring semester it won't be another 10......most likely less. Of course, I could turn out to be wrong. Let's see.
THirdly, I don't know about 40 students dropping out in the 4 years. I haven't really spoken to any 3rd or 4th year students, so it would be foolish on my part to try and contradict that number. However, even if it's 40 students, on a percentage basis that attrition rate would still be at par with many other dental schools. ( 'Many other' does not mean 'all' dental schools. )
Fourthly, even if it is 40 students dropping out........sooooo what?
Many many many of us who shall be dental students this year are starting school after spending a few years in other careers. Someone please tell me why is it that we are so proud of our great country when we get the opportunity to re-establish our career after making a mistake and choosing a wrong one the first time, and yet when a dental school offers you the same opportunity and gives you a second chance, we say 'NYU is like a caribbean medical school; they take almost anyone'.
Well, to all the great people who have gone into dentistry because they primarily believe it is a noble profession....."I am mighty greatful to have had the opportunity of being at liberty to choose among several dental schools, and mighty proud to have chosen NYU. Whatever NYUs reason in accepting 235 students, I appreciate the fact that this great school will risk their reputation and give people a second chance at succeeding in their goals. Whether these people rise to the challenge or not, is not anyone's, but their own fault. And please, only amuse yourself by saying NYU only takes people to get their money. Reality check is that all dental schools are money oriented. However, some will risk their reputation for society, some will not. It is, but natural for us to conclude that the school that takes fewer tudents must be a better one. Well, I think differently. I think, I ponder, I decide. And I have decided to put my $270K on NYU."
Apparently, you were only reading parts of my post. I'll break down my previous post to respond to yours. With some additions...
1. The original poster may have started with that statement, but then goes on to make a very big assumption. She calculates attrition rate based on only these 10. Let us not forget that the first year is not even over yet at NYU. These 10 people are gone after just the first semester. Once this spring semester finishes, there will be more, and even more still after the second year. So, when getting the facts, you might want to ask current 3rd and 4th years. They know the most about the school and will give you a better sense of what is really happening.
You did indeed go ahead and calculate attrition rate, based on the 10, and then compare it to the actual attrition rate at other schools. No reading error there on my part.
40/230=17%. I guarantee you that NO other dental school has that high an attrition rate. You may be betting that the number is not as high as forty, but be careful how much money you place on that bet. Just ask 3rd and 4th years. Also, your assumption that most people drop out after the first semester is flat out wrong. Anatomy at NYU ends during the second semester. That is usually the clincher for dropping or failing out.
Pharmacology is another big one during the second year.
#3. Why are attritions rates that important to people anyway? Assuming that you are confident in your abilities and are willing to work hard to stay on top of your game, you shouldn't have a problem at any of these schools. Yes, there are some people who don't take dental school seriously, or simply can't cut it, but they shouldn't be getting to the point of seeing patients anyway. I agree with the one person who gave kudos to NYU for giving people the opportunity to prove themselves in the first two years of dental school. Once accepted and enrolled, it is the responsibility of that student to learn the material so that he/she doesn't wind up hurting or even killing a patient. If a student does not fulfill these responsibilities, then he/she should not be given the opportunity or privilege of becoming a doctor. That's an absolute assumption for anyone who receives an MD/DDS/DMD or for any health care provider for that matter. I feel sorry for those who wind up wasting a year or two of their lives, as well as 50 to 100 grand, with nothing to show for it but the stress and disappointment of no degree, but I am also grateful to med and dental schools for holding certain standards so that I don't wind up the victim of some incompetent practitioner.
As for the comment that NYU is the equivalent of a Caribbean medical school, I did not make it. It is a ludicrous comment and brings absolutely no constructive advice to the table. Like I said in my first post, I had a difficult time making the decision between NYU and Columbia.
It seems to me that you are equating high attrition rate with a bad program. And since you have decided that NYU is not a bad program, it does not have a high attrition rate. That is simply bad logic. At some point you are going to have to resign yourself to the fact that NYU does indeed have a high attrition rate. That doesn't mean squat as far as I'm concerned. It's still a good program. You may claim that attrition rate doesn't matter to you, but then why do you insist that NYU's is not that high when presented with actual information (from my sister, a graduate of the 2001 class) that proves otherwise? Perhaps the numbers have been changing in the past 2 years. I do not claim to know otherwise, but neither do you.
1. The original poster may have started with that statement, but then goes on to make a very big assumption. She calculates attrition rate based on only these 10. Let us not forget that the first year is not even over yet at NYU. These 10 people are gone after just the first semester. Once this spring semester finishes, there will be more, and even more still after the second year. So, when getting the facts, you might want to ask current 3rd and 4th years. They know the most about the school and will give you a better sense of what is really happening.
You did indeed go ahead and calculate attrition rate, based on the 10, and then compare it to the actual attrition rate at other schools. No reading error there on my part.
40/230=17%. I guarantee you that NO other dental school has that high an attrition rate. You may be betting that the number is not as high as forty, but be careful how much money you place on that bet. Just ask 3rd and 4th years. Also, your assumption that most people drop out after the first semester is flat out wrong. Anatomy at NYU ends during the second semester. That is usually the clincher for dropping or failing out.
Pharmacology is another big one during the second year.
#3. Why are attritions rates that important to people anyway? Assuming that you are confident in your abilities and are willing to work hard to stay on top of your game, you shouldn't have a problem at any of these schools. Yes, there are some people who don't take dental school seriously, or simply can't cut it, but they shouldn't be getting to the point of seeing patients anyway. I agree with the one person who gave kudos to NYU for giving people the opportunity to prove themselves in the first two years of dental school. Once accepted and enrolled, it is the responsibility of that student to learn the material so that he/she doesn't wind up hurting or even killing a patient. If a student does not fulfill these responsibilities, then he/she should not be given the opportunity or privilege of becoming a doctor. That's an absolute assumption for anyone who receives an MD/DDS/DMD or for any health care provider for that matter. I feel sorry for those who wind up wasting a year or two of their lives, as well as 50 to 100 grand, with nothing to show for it but the stress and disappointment of no degree, but I am also grateful to med and dental schools for holding certain standards so that I don't wind up the victim of some incompetent practitioner.
As for the comment that NYU is the equivalent of a Caribbean medical school, I did not make it. It is a ludicrous comment and brings absolutely no constructive advice to the table. Like I said in my first post, I had a difficult time making the decision between NYU and Columbia.
It seems to me that you are equating high attrition rate with a bad program. And since you have decided that NYU is not a bad program, it does not have a high attrition rate. That is simply bad logic. At some point you are going to have to resign yourself to the fact that NYU does indeed have a high attrition rate. That doesn't mean squat as far as I'm concerned. It's still a good program. You may claim that attrition rate doesn't matter to you, but then why do you insist that NYU's is not that high when presented with actual information (from my sister, a graduate of the 2001 class) that proves otherwise? Perhaps the numbers have been changing in the past 2 years. I do not claim to know otherwise, but neither do you.
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You don't realize the implications of a 50-100+ grand debt, do you? The kid would not have been having any work experience during his years in dental school, have a poor dental gpa, and where/how would he find a way to pay back all that compounding debt and comfortably have a roof over his head? Exactly what would there be for him to do after he gets the boot?
Although it's the kid's fault ( assuming that nyu won't dismiss students with barely passing grades even if they are the bottom of the class ) for not doing adequately in dental school, the kid will be living his young adult life struggling. And you don't think the school should take any part of the blame for this? Especially considering that they accepted him because they didn't want to be left with empty seats?
Vishu,
I sent you a PM
🙂
I sent you a PM
🙂
Noone forces these students to enroll. They are given the opportunity. Noone says they have to take it. You can then argue that they shouldn't be given the opportunity, but then you are penalizing all those who take the opportunity and succeed.
Unless you can provide an alternative, how can you blame the schools? It seems to me that these are the options:
1. Leave things the way they are.
2. Don't accept students with less than stellar grades.
3. Don't kick them out.
4. Some sort of debt forgiveness.
Obviously, 4 would be nice, but let's face it, that isn't going to happen. 2 penalizes a lot of other students who do just fine once given the opportunity of being in dental school. 3 cannot be made a real option or we will wind up with incompetent dentists who wind up hurting not only patients, but the profession as well. So, 1 seems to be the only real choice.
Like I said, I feel sorry for people who get stuck in this position. I am well aware of the consequences of acquiring such a large debt. Most of the people who wind up flunking out of school are the ones who don't consider this. Otherwise it would seem to me that they would study their asses off to make sure that they don't flunk out. There are a select few who simply can't handle the material no matter how much they study, and those are the ones for whom I feel the most sympathy. But again, what's the alternative?
As for the implications of having 50- 100 grand debt, I am a dental student, don't forget. I'm looking at a total debt of 220 grand. Yes, I will leave school with a career to be able to pay it off (hopefully), but that's my reward for having worked hard enough to obtain that degree.
Unless you can provide an alternative, how can you blame the schools? It seems to me that these are the options:
1. Leave things the way they are.
2. Don't accept students with less than stellar grades.
3. Don't kick them out.
4. Some sort of debt forgiveness.
Obviously, 4 would be nice, but let's face it, that isn't going to happen. 2 penalizes a lot of other students who do just fine once given the opportunity of being in dental school. 3 cannot be made a real option or we will wind up with incompetent dentists who wind up hurting not only patients, but the profession as well. So, 1 seems to be the only real choice.
Like I said, I feel sorry for people who get stuck in this position. I am well aware of the consequences of acquiring such a large debt. Most of the people who wind up flunking out of school are the ones who don't consider this. Otherwise it would seem to me that they would study their asses off to make sure that they don't flunk out. There are a select few who simply can't handle the material no matter how much they study, and those are the ones for whom I feel the most sympathy. But again, what's the alternative?
As for the implications of having 50- 100 grand debt, I am a dental student, don't forget. I'm looking at a total debt of 220 grand. Yes, I will leave school with a career to be able to pay it off (hopefully), but that's my reward for having worked hard enough to obtain that degree.
Sorry, but it's still a reading error on your part. I was referring to attrition rate for the first semester. I did not switch from talking about the first semester.....it was the first semester that was being referenced.
wow. denial aint just a river in egypt.
Now, was it first year or first semester you were talking about? (You may want ro read the bold words above before changing your story.) Cause we do agree that 10 isn't the final number for NYU for the first year, right? And it's quite obvious from the above that you are comparing numbers for first year between schools.
Also, just for your info, for most schools, all attrition occurs during the first year. That's not the case at NYU. Don't compare apples and oranges.
Man, some people simply can't admit they've made a mistake. I'm done with this thread. I don't enjoy repeating myself. I'll say it one last time though: who cares about attrition rates?
Now, was it first year or first semester you were talking about? (You may want ro read the bold words above before changing your story.) Cause we do agree that 10 isn't the final number for NYU for the first year, right? And it's quite obvious from the above that you are comparing numbers for first year between schools.
Also, just for your info, for most schools, all attrition occurs during the first year. That's not the case at NYU. Don't compare apples and oranges.
Man, some people simply can't admit they've made a mistake. I'm done with this thread. I don't enjoy repeating myself. I'll say it one last time though: who cares about attrition rates?
People really can't admit mistakes..........that is exactly what my point was too!!!!
Anyways, I am glad you are done with this thread....cuz i myself was getting tired of interpreting. There is such a thing as 'guess-ti-mation'. To illustrate a point, one may use rough estimates. It makes it much easier to comprehend. Of course, when one has exact figures, then one does not use "if" as I did; in that case one uses "have dropped out".
And yes, who cares about attrition rates......if I did, I might have been intimidated by what I read here and might have opted for one of the other fine schools. But a lot of other factors (and not attrition rates alone) are what I look at in any school.
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Guys, I do have one questions though.
What do you mean by NYU "kicking" students out?
Are these students dismissed because they couldn't get at least a C or higher in all of their courses and/or pass their board exams?
Or are they removed because NYU feels the need to lighten its student body load and, therefore, decides to slice the bottom 15% of its class?
Compared to other schools I got into ( i.e. Loma Linda, UOP, etc. etc. ), NYU accepts kids with low grades. And with the school's higher student body sample, is it more easy to be within the top 2-5% of class in NYU than elsewhere? ( and thereby making it also easier to get into a specialty, as opposed to trying to get into specialties with a 50% rank at a high-end dental school ?)
What do you mean by NYU "kicking" students out?
Are these students dismissed because they couldn't get at least a C or higher in all of their courses and/or pass their board exams?
Or are they removed because NYU feels the need to lighten its student body load and, therefore, decides to slice the bottom 15% of its class?
Compared to other schools I got into ( i.e. Loma Linda, UOP, etc. etc. ), NYU accepts kids with low grades. And with the school's higher student body sample, is it more easy to be within the top 2-5% of class in NYU than elsewhere? ( and thereby making it also easier to get into a specialty, as opposed to trying to get into specialties with a 50% rank at a high-end dental school ?)
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Okay, let's put this attrition rate issue to rest. Bottom line is, if you fail out of this school, you deserve to get kicked out. In my opinion, it's pretty damn difficult to get weeded out if you study. I'm not the sharpest guy in the world and I haven't failed any of my courses (knock on wood). Why should you be worrying about attrition rate anyways? You control your own destiny once you get in. Attrition rate wasn't even a concern for me when I chose this school. I knew I had the discipline to study. And, trust me, NYU doesn't try to kick you out. We just got this email today from the Academic Enrollment dude. We're allowed to fail 3 courses...3!! More than 3, then you're kicked out. Trust me, a lot of people do remedial (I wouldn't be suprised if I do at some point), but failing 3 classes?!?!?! PM me your email address and I'll forward you the whole email...here's the first part of it:
Dear Class of 2004, 2005, 2006:
As we approach the end of the spring semester, many students are concerned
about remediation. This is how it works:
1. At the end of the academic year, each student' s record is reviewed by
the Office of Academic Affairs. Students who have failed 3 courses or less
are permitted to attend remediation. Students who fail over 3 courses will
have their records reviewed by the Committee on Academic Review and
Standards. These students may be asked to repeat the academic year or may be
dismissed from the program.
Dear Class of 2004, 2005, 2006:
As we approach the end of the spring semester, many students are concerned
about remediation. This is how it works:
1. At the end of the academic year, each student' s record is reviewed by
the Office of Academic Affairs. Students who have failed 3 courses or less
are permitted to attend remediation. Students who fail over 3 courses will
have their records reviewed by the Committee on Academic Review and
Standards. These students may be asked to repeat the academic year or may be
dismissed from the program.
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I have followed the dicussion in this forum. I totally agreed with nycdds. One should be responsible for one's decision. You just cannot blame the school for your failure. Well, I spoke from my experience since I WAS ONE OF A FEW STUDENTS WHO DROPPED OUT OF DENTAL SCHOOL at the end of second years (not from NYU though).
I dropped out because I cannot handle the clinical portion of dentistry. I cannot worked in a small confinement like the oral cavity. I had trouble with the lab works, and everything relates to dentistry such as operative dentistry, crown,waxing....etc although I did okay (not stellar though) with the basic science.
I would not want to become a clumsy dentist. I felt like a loser since I cannot offer an adequate care to my patient, so I dropped out.
Yup, I still suffered with the debt of $60,000 (i.e enrolled a community college to defer the loan..) but I think I should be responsible for my decision. Noone forces me to dental school so I should blame noone.
If you put yourself in the position of the Student Performance Committee then you will understand why it seems the SPC is hard on you. Will you want some (should not be) clumsy dentists to be your colleagues? Will you want some clumsy, slack off dentists to treat your love ones? I guess not.
I am very sure that if one really WANTS to be a dentist, one will be one eventually. SO, don't sweat!
Best regards,
I dropped out because I cannot handle the clinical portion of dentistry. I cannot worked in a small confinement like the oral cavity. I had trouble with the lab works, and everything relates to dentistry such as operative dentistry, crown,waxing....etc although I did okay (not stellar though) with the basic science.
I would not want to become a clumsy dentist. I felt like a loser since I cannot offer an adequate care to my patient, so I dropped out.
Yup, I still suffered with the debt of $60,000 (i.e enrolled a community college to defer the loan..) but I think I should be responsible for my decision. Noone forces me to dental school so I should blame noone.
If you put yourself in the position of the Student Performance Committee then you will understand why it seems the SPC is hard on you. Will you want some (should not be) clumsy dentists to be your colleagues? Will you want some clumsy, slack off dentists to treat your love ones? I guess not.
I am very sure that if one really WANTS to be a dentist, one will be one eventually. SO, don't sweat!
Best regards,
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Sorry to bring this thread out from the archives but I wanted to add something to it.
NYU is not the only school that dismisses students from their program. I was speaking to a 2nd year student here at BU and it turns out that we might hold the record for dismissed students. This student is repeating the year with us year one students and he said that his class had 30 people dismissed. 30 PEOPLE!!! He said he was one of them but he along with I believe 6 others appealed the decision and were allowed to repeat the year though they are only repeating anatomy, biochem and physio. What's different about this is that they are not blaming the school but rather themselves. They partied too much or didn't take anything seriously. It serves as a great wakeup call for some people and allows some of us to appreciate where we are.
BTW- The year above him, class of 2005, had 5-6 people dismissed during the first year. But with 30 people that's like 25% of the class...ouch. I better hit the books.
NYU is not the only school that dismisses students from their program. I was speaking to a 2nd year student here at BU and it turns out that we might hold the record for dismissed students. This student is repeating the year with us year one students and he said that his class had 30 people dismissed. 30 PEOPLE!!! He said he was one of them but he along with I believe 6 others appealed the decision and were allowed to repeat the year though they are only repeating anatomy, biochem and physio. What's different about this is that they are not blaming the school but rather themselves. They partied too much or didn't take anything seriously. It serves as a great wakeup call for some people and allows some of us to appreciate where we are.
BTW- The year above him, class of 2005, had 5-6 people dismissed during the first year. But with 30 people that's like 25% of the class...ouch. I better hit the books.
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Wow...I guess tution is not a huge source of income at BU. I would think the school might have some financial stress letting go 25% of their class. But then again maybe they saved up for a rainy day 😀
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Maybe they get their money from Alumni because everyone is so happy here. I'm here for only three weeks and I'm happy. The professors are great, some came from Harvard and like it here better.
I'm trying to figure out how so many people got dismissed. I think there was someone on this forum who left but maybe 10 years ago and wanted to come back.
I'm trying to figure out how so many people got dismissed. I think there was someone on this forum who left but maybe 10 years ago and wanted to come back.
this is very interesting about BU.. my sister just met one of those 30 people who got dismissed last year. interesting thing is that this person is going through the entire applicatiopn process again for fall 2004 entrance!!!!
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