NZREX question

[goldfish]

i posted a similar question in the general forum but got no reply so i'm gona try again.

do all NZ doctors have to go through NZREX or just those that graduate from overseas?

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[Kirstie]

No, only doctors trained overseas have to take the NZREX. there are no exams for NZ or Australian grads as they get automatic registration.

i posted a similar question in the general forum but got no reply so i'm gona try again.

do all NZ doctors have to go through NZREX or just those that graduate from overseas?

 

[goldfish]

No, only doctors trained overseas have to take the NZREX. there are no exams for NZ or Australian grads as they get automatic registration.

OMG thanks for replying i thought i was never getting an answer for that. I even asked the MCNZ by email.

Since u answered that question maybe u can help me with another... is it hard for foreign students that graduate from NZ unis to get an internship and residency?

Thanks again

 

[Kirstie]

You're welcome! But sorry I don't know the answer to this question. there is a website www.newdoctors.co.nz which is for graduates applying for their first internships and house officer positions. it looks like you need to be a permanent resident or have a work permit. you could look into the criteria for permanent residency and work permits - see www.immigration.govt.nz although the criteria will probably be different by the time you have finished your degree in NZ.

if by "residency" you mean acceptance into a specialist training program you could look at the criteria of the specialist colleges regarding citizenship or visas.

good luck
K

OMG thanks for replying i thought i was never getting an answer for that. I even asked the MCNZ by email.

Since u answered that question maybe u can help me with another... is it hard for foreign students that graduate from NZ unis to get an internship and residency?

Thanks again

 

[goldfish]

i checked out the websites but i really found some of the rules to be confusing and the imigration website was just huge....

i dug around the forum and found a thread from 2003 that mentioned some Malaysian auckland uni grads had to be turned down for internship bcos they had to make way for locals.
However my aunt who is a PR there and working in the radiology dept in one of the auckland uni teaching hospitals said that foreign students were encouraged to stay cos of lack of doctors in NZ and the exodus to Oz for better pay.
Now i'm just confused. I really hate this phase of medical education/career. So much uncertainty and confusion.

 

[Purifyer]

i checked out the websites but i really found some of the rules to be confusing and the imigration website was just huge....

i dug around the forum and found a thread from 2003 that mentioned some Malaysian auckland uni grads had to be turned down for internship bcos they had to make way for locals.
However my aunt who is a PR there and working in the radiology dept in one of the auckland uni teaching hospitals said that foreign students were encouraged to stay cos of lack of doctors in NZ and the exodus to Oz for better pay.
Now i'm just confused. I really hate this phase of medical education/career. So much uncertainty and confusion.

It's not guaranteed but it's not impossible (to get a house surgeon position after med school). ie. I know that from my school, in the year before last (ie. beginning HS in 2004) that only 2 people out of the class didn't get a position. They were both international students (but we have a lot more than 2 international students in our class).

Things (like immigration law) can change a lot over the course of 5 years however.

 

[goldfish]

actually i'm an IMU student so if i do make it to any NZ uni it will be to do the clinical years only since i would've completed my pre clinical at IMU.

do u mind if i ask what uni and year you are in?

 

[sjkpark]

actually i'm an IMU student so if i do make it to any NZ uni it will be to do the clinical years only since i would've completed my pre clinical at IMU.

do u mind if i ask what uni and year you are in?

Ask your IMU friends at Auckland about the real situation. I heard that it is very hard to get jobs here for IMU students. I heard that for the last cohort to go through ACE matching scheme, only 2-3 got to stay in NZ (and I heard one was NZ PR, the other ended up in Timaru). 4-5 got to go to Australia, but in small cities that Aussie grads don't bother to go.

PS: If you graduate from Auckland, irrespective of where you started your degree (i.e. IMU or Auckland), you are considered a NZ grad, therefore don't have to sit NZREX.

PPS: Is your aunt a radiologist? Or working in radiology department? In the past it was true that all graduates (including Malaysians) could stay in NZ. However something happened in last few years and what your aunt is saying may not be true. (And not every NZ grads wants to go to Aussie for better pay - the cost of living is higher there and there are some people who can't live in 40 degree weather.)

 

[Purifyer]

actually i'm an IMU student so if i do make it to any NZ uni it will be to do the clinical years only since i would've completed my pre clinical at IMU.

do u mind if i ask what uni and year you are in?

Otago uni, 5th year. I've never heard of anyone just coming for clinical years however - is that an arrangement IMU has with auckland only?

 

[sjkpark]

Otago uni, 5th year. I've never heard of anyone just coming for clinical years however - is that an arrangement IMU has with auckland only?

Auckland has an arrangement with IMU to accept students who finished pre-clinical at IMU, Malaysia. They enter at the beginning of 4th year.

To OP: Are you trying to decide between Aussie and NZ? I think you would get more specific information if you explain your situation a little better. Immigration policy will change in 4 years time.

 

[goldfish]

Auckland has an arrangement with IMU to accept students who finished pre-clinical at IMU, Malaysia. They enter at the beginning of 4th year.

To OP: Are you trying to decide between Aussie and NZ? I think you would get more specific information if you explain your situation a little better. Immigration policy will change in 4 years time.

IMU also has a similar if not identical arrangement with otago uni. however there are fewer IMU students in otago. Auckland probably has 20+ otago might have 5 or so..

basically i'm trying to decide between UK, Aussie and NZ since IMU has the similar arrangements with unis from these places and north america (total of 24 unis i think).

i'm actually a third year student at IMU and i'll have to decide which specific uni to go to soon but i'm leaning towards auckland because of good things i've heard about the place and the cost.

the main thing that concerns me most about ALL the unis would be the intership phase and beyond since it's really hard to get a good picture of the situation from over here. the usual way of getting news is through hearsay and stuff. some say its ok others not so....
i'm trying to get as much info as i can but i think i'll be putting auckland as my 1st choice most likely.

 

[sjkpark]

i'm actually a third year student at IMU and i'll have to decide which specific uni to go to soon but i'm leaning towards auckland because of good things i've heard about the place and the cost.

the main thing that concerns me most about ALL the unis would be the intership phase and beyond since it's really hard to get a good picture of the situation from over here. the usual way of getting news is through hearsay and stuff. some say its ok others not so....
i'm trying to get as much info as i can but i think i'll be putting auckland as my 1st choice most likely.

Good to hear that somebody has nice things to say about Auckland. I think clinical experience wise it's no better or worse than anywhere else in Australasia. Some runs are fantastic; others are not so fantastic. Everything else falls in between.

Recently IMU students without NZ PR have been having trouble getting 1st year house officer jobs after graduation in NZ or Australia (as I posted before). Some have gone over to Singapore for that reason. I think Malaysians getting turned down to make way for locals is a little bit exaggerated - more likely if there is a NZer equally qualified as Malaysian, they will pick NZer. In 2003 there were 2-3 NZ Auckland grads who didn't get house jobs after ACE match, because ACE match people screwed up and did not send the required documentations to the hospitals. I believe they all ended up getting jobs.

Also.... Auckland does fail people (sometimes by masses). Last year was particularly bad in both 4th and 5th years (10+ failed in 5th year). But as long as you study hard, get along well with your clinical teachers, and play the game, you won't.

Also Auckland has more "traditional" grading system, based on A, B, C. Otago I think is distinction, pass, fail. However Auckland curriculum is going through changes, who knows what they are going to change next?

Good luck with your decision.

 

[goldfish]

thanks for the info about the HO situation. i guess i'll just have to see how it pans out because like i said it's hard to get a good accurate picture from here. i'd really like to work a little and specialize before returning to malaysia and doing 2 yrs of gov service with practically minmum wage. being an intern in malaysia kind of sucks hard pay wise (used to get paid less than teachers somewhat better now) and omg the hours are looooong.
so what year are u in?

 

[KevinL]

Regarding the IMU situation in NZ... the ACE scheme currently excludes IMUs from the match as they do not possess a current work permit. There have been a few people who have gotten around this (e.g. by having a de facto relationship with someone who already has residency), but basically if you're an IMU, you can't even apply through the ACE scheme.

The thing is, even though in the past most Malaysian students have gotten jobs in NZ, there's never been a guarantee. The restrictions on the ACE scheme last year were largely due to the previous year's debacle where local students lost out to IMUs who falsely declared that they had a work permit on the application form (and were subsequently stripped of their job offers, which is a bit controversial).

That being said, despite the fact that there are more NZ graduates than jobs, the fact of the matter is there are always jobs left over. A certain number of people decide to defer for a year, and as Australian jobs come out later than the NZ jobs, more vacancies come up after the Australian match (i.e. NZ graduates going to Australia leave vacancies).

At the hospital I'm working at, there are four first-year IMU house officers who were offered jobs after the ACE scheme was over (and have all subsequently applied for residency now that they have a job). There are at least a few more at other hospitals that I'm aware of. So it's not impossible, just a bit complicated.

Auckland is moving to the pass/fail/distinction system, by the way - the trainee intern year is certainly already p/f/d, I'm not sure about others. The curriculum is unlikely to change in the short term, as this year is an accreditation year and the powers that be aren't keen to rock the boat, so to speak.


Kevin.

 

[goldfish]

is it hard to obtain a work permit? and does that mean IMU students regardless of wheter they have a work permit or not will not be allowed to participate in the ACE?

if possible i'd like to hear an HONEST opinion on how IMU students fare in auckland.

 

[sjkpark]

is it hard to obtain a work permit? and does that mean IMU students regardless of wheter they have a work permit or not will not be allowed to participate in the ACE?

The policies regarding work permit is set by the Government of New Zealand. New Zealand is a small country with election once every 3 years and a very complicated electoral system. i.e. We don't really know what the policy is like right now, let alone 3 years into the future.

Kev, the way I understand is that IMU students (as well as other overseas students) are allowed to participate in ACE Match (regardless of work permit), but only for the 2nd iteration (so after NZ PR Grads). I'll get more information on ACE Match in 2 weeks, at ACE Roadshow. (I got 1st quarter elective - my last choice )

if possible i'd like to hear an HONEST opinion on how IMU students fare in auckland.

I feel that many people here gave you a realistic picture of what the things are like over here. Yes, it is possible to find job as an IMU student, but it is difficult. IMU students, if they do find jobs, tend to do so in "undesirable" locations in both NZ and Australia (i.e. don't expect to shoo-in to jobs in Auckland, Sydney or Melbourne).

 

[KevinL]

Hi,

Having just participated in the latest ACE match, I think I have a fairly good understanding of how the system works. There was only one match last year as there were more candidates than jobs, and I suspect this will stay the case as the number of medical students is increasing while the number of jobs stays largely the same. In any case, last year the Malaysian IMUs were not able to participate in ACE, and once the jobs were allocated it was up to each IMU to individually contact each DHB to see if there are any vacancies.

Bit of a pain, but that's the way it works under current immigration law - you can't get a work permit until you actually have a job offer, and you can't participate in ACE without a current work permit. Once you get a job offer from a DHB, a work permit is a piece of cake (in fact, most of the IMUs who have gotten jobs are now applying for residency status). I wouldn't say it's difficult to find jobs, as there are generally vacancies for reasons previously discussed - it's just a bit more complicated and there is less certainty/choice as to where you end up.



Kevin

 

[sjkpark]

Hi Kevin

The problem with ACE Match is that you always know somebody's friend's Malaysian flatmate who's still looking for a job.

PS: I served my sentence on "The Spot." Very well made spot too.

 

[goldfish]

i really appreciate all the information you guys have given me. It's helped me develop a better picture of internship chances in NZ. a big thanks and

can u guys tell me about the examination structure in auckland?

 

[KevinL]

4th year - split about 60% internal assessment (run evaluations, assignments and OSCEs*) and 40% end-of-year exams where they basically assess stuff covered in lectures. Oh, there's a psychiatry OSCE at the end of the year which is a bit of a joke (everyone in the same room watching a video and then copying each other's answers).

5th year - split about 35% internal assessment (run evaluations, assignments and OSCEs), about 40% end-of-year exams where they assess topics covered in lectures (including some but not all of the topics from 4th year), and about 25% from short cases (2 medical, 2 surgical).

6th year - minimal assessment, basically you need to turn up. Sure, there's a medical long case, a psychiatry OSCE and a few inane assignments, but largely it's self-directed learning and it's fairly impossible to fail the year.

*Observed Clinical Skills Examination

 

[goldfish]

great! that's a pretty useful website you have
but i'm a bit lost... which is the stuff that's covered in clinical? MBChB 1 or MBChB 2?
also what do you mean by run evaluations and assignments?

 

[KevinL]

great! that's a pretty useful website you have
but i'm a bit lost... which is the stuff that's covered in clinical? MBChB 1 or MBChB 2?
also what do you mean by run evaluations and assignments?

MBChB 1 is 4th year (clinical year 1). 6 weeks each of general medicine, general surgery, psychiatry; 4 weeks each of general practice (2 weeks urban, 2 weeks rural) and orthopaedics; 2 weeks each of anaesthetics and emergency. Lectures as per the website.

MBChB 2 is 5th year (clinical year 2). 6 weeks each of paediatrics, obstetrics and gynaecology; 4 weeks each of specialty medicine, specialty surgery, and selective (your choice of topic); 2 weeks each of general practice and geriatrics. Lectures as per the website.

MBChB 3 is 6th year (clinical year 3). 6 weeks each of general medicine, paediatrics and obstetrics and gynaecology, 4 weeks each of general practice (2 weeks urban, 2 weeks rural) and general surgery, 2 weeks of specialty surgery and 1 weeks of anaesthetics or emergency. No lectures!

At least that's what I recall. Could be wrong. Someone will correct me.

Run evaluations - the mark that your consultant gives you. Based on a combination of attendance, knowledge and arse-kissing.

Assignments - vary but include case history, critically assigned topics, journal club presentations, audits, essays, whatever.

 

[goldfish]

hey thanks for clearing that up
the questions were tough! do u have the answers?

i was wondering if you have any idea how the IMU students perform in assesments over there? can they keep up with the locals? they dont keep track of those stats here and i dont really know any seniors there.

thanks a bunch for all the help u guys have given... if i do end up there i'll be buying u guys lunch