OB/GYN salary vs. Psych

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LoveMedicine100

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So i know someone who is a 4th year ob/gyn resident and is getting offers for jobs that start around around $175,000 and then 10K increase like every 4 months.

I also noticed that psych 4th year residents are getting similar starting salaries. How is this possible? Ob/gyns do surgeries and other complicated stuff and Its hard for me to believe that they start out with salaries similar to psychiatrists. Are you sure psychiatrists start out with $175K?

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Medscape publishes a physician compensation survey (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/public). You can see based on that data (which I'm sure has its limitations) that the average annual psychiatry salary is $186k and the average OB/GYN makes $242k.

Digging a little deeper shows that 71% of psychiatrists see patients for less than 40 hours per week, with only 7% breaking the 50 hours per week barrier (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/psychiatry). For OB/GYNs 52% see patients for less than 40 hours/week and 23% break the 50 hours per week barrier (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/womenshealth).

Overall you are right, OB does more procedures and tends to work more overall and despite the higher malpractice rates should more per year than psychiatry. The difference in my opinion is not enough to justify choosing one over the other based on income alone though.
 
Medscape publishes a physician compensation survey (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/public). You can see based on that data (which I'm sure has its limitations) that the average annual psychiatry salary is $186k and the average OB/GYN makes $242k.

Digging a little deeper shows that 71% of psychiatrists see patients for less than 40 hours per week, with only 7% breaking the 50 hours per week barrier (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/psychiatry). For OB/GYNs 52% see patients for less than 40 hours/week and 23% break the 50 hours per week barrier (http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/womenshealth).

Overall you are right, OB does more procedures and tends to work more overall and despite the higher malpractice rates should more per year than psychiatry. The difference in my opinion is not enough to justify choosing one over the other based on income alone though.

Thanks for the info! I love psych and I am going into it b/c I love the work and I loved my rotations!! I dont really care how much they make but I just thought it was interesting that the Ob/gyn resident was starting out with a similar salary and plus he has to be on call every 6 days. Sucks!!!
 
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$175k sounds pretty much in line with what I've heard for most people. Probably a conservative estimate, actually. Don't know about ob/gyn.
 
I dont really care how much they make but I just thought it was interesting that the Ob/gyn resident was starting out with a similar salary and plus he has to be on call every 6 days.
Two things Psych and OB-GYN have in common: if it's not your passion, it would be the worst job in the world for a doctor at any price.
 
Two things Psych and OB-GYN have in common: if it's not your passion, it would be the worst job in the world for a doctor at any price.

Yes, definitely. If I had to be an Ob/Gyn, I'd probably need to see a psychiatrist. And I think 95% of doctors tell me something like "oh my god, you actually WANT to be a psychiatrist?"
 
Ob/GYN was ranked 7th in most malpractice claims per year in a 2011 study, and has the HIGHEST rate of paid claims from those lawsuits. The rate is the ratio of claims paid to total claims, and this ratio, big surprise, is the highest for Ob/Gyn among all specialties.

Guess where psychiatry ranks in number of claims per year. BOTTOM. Psych has the lowest malpractice risk.

Enjoy. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3204310/ Anyway, notdeadyet's right. Don't enter the door unless you really want to live on the other side.
 
Ob/GYN was ranked 7th in most malpractice claims per year in a 2011 study, and has the HIGHEST rate of paid claims from those lawsuits. The rate is the ratio of claims paid to total claims, and this ratio, big surprise, is the highest for Ob/Gyn among all specialties.

Guess where psychiatry ranks in number of claims per year. BOTTOM. Psych has the lowest malpractice risk.

Enjoy. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3204310/ Anyway, notdeadyet's right. Don't enter the door unless you really want to live on the other side.

Although we probably rank #1 in threatened lawsuits. Fortunately, most lawyers are able to sift through to figure out that a large portion of the claims are just a symptom of the mental illness. And I guess it helps that involuntary commitments have to go through a court process.
 
Two things Psych and OB-GYN have in common: if it's not your passion, it would be the worst job in the world for a doctor at any price.

I think that would be even more true for surgery or medicine.
 
I think that would be even more true for surgery or medicine.

No kidding. Does anyone really believe psych is worse than general IM or surgery? On what grounds?
 
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The reality of the situation is you Ob-Gyns suck, and we psychiatrists rule! HAHA! We work less hours and you guys are up all night and we make the same money.

OK, sorry. Just joking. I agree with everything mentioned above. You need to go into the field you enjoy. Pay can be highly variable depending on what you do, the area, etc. A psychiatrist could make $200K, $500K, $150K all depending on where they work and the type of work they do. Same with Ob-Gyn. Most psychiatrists make the average, but if you spend a few years looking into it, you can figure out how to make a heck of a lot more.

As for starting salaries, I've noticed some hospitals intentionally low-balling new attendings because they know the attending doesn't know what the going rates are and just making anything in the 6 figures is awesome to their unknowing minds. If you're given dung, then offered that low quality fake chocolate put into easter bunnies, you're going to like it despite that you should've gotten the high-end Tolberone chocolate that your older brother is hiding from you.

The Three Stooges were falsely told how much their movies were bringing in, and took salaries far lower than they deserved. They had no way to know the studios cooked the books. In the end of their careers they signed on to far more higher paying gigs because by then the market changed and they had more leeway in seeing how competing studios would treat them. After their deaths it turned out they were bilked for years with the studios telling them their movies brought about only 10% of what they were really bringing in.

The same thing goes on in medicine. You could be bringing in a heck of a lot of money into an institution, your colleague could be actually costing them a heck of a lot of money but both of you get the same salary.
 
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No kidding. Does anyone really believe psych is worse than general IM or surgery? On what grounds?

All you have to do is talk to a medicine resident, gen surg resident, and psych resident for 5 minutes each to get the answer to that question. The one that doesn't look like they just got waterboarded for 6 months straight is where you want to be. :thumbup:
 
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While a resident, the IM residents sometimes mentioned that psychiatry was BS. Now these guys weren't mean, in fact they were friends of mine. Part of their comments were friendly-ribbing.

To which I responded, "Hey guys what are you doing tonight? I'm going out with a hot woman, we're going to have drinks, dinner, then then tonight........." (I'd be a little more descriptive but now I'm an atttending wtih students). Oh yeah, you're working tonight, all night! Good for you after all Internal Medicine is not BS!"

Then a big two thumbs up from me with a sarcastically exaggerated smile.
 
I know an IM resident who left IM and got a PGY2 psychiatry spot last cycle. I was proud of her.
 
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So i know someone who is a 4th year ob/gyn resident and is getting offers for jobs that start around around $175,000 and then 10K increase like every 4 months.

I also noticed that psych 4th year residents are getting similar starting salaries. How is this possible? Ob/gyns do surgeries and other complicated stuff and Its hard for me to believe that they start out with salaries similar to psychiatrists. Are you sure psychiatrists start out with $175K?

In obgyn(especially in a few of the subspecialties) you are going to make a lot more money than psych.
 
In obgyn(especially in a few of the subspecialties) you are going to make a lot more money than psych.

In general yes, not true in several exceptions, and I don't work, nor most psychiatrists I know don't work as hard as many Ob-Gyns.

IMHO the bottom line isn't the money. Work 40 hours a week in any field of medicine you'll be comfortable.

And if you goal is the money, it's harder to have money ventures while working crazy hours cause you're more concerned about catching up on your sleep. Psychiatry while it makes less money for the average psychiatrist vs ob-gyn doctor, IMHO, for most will be more conducive to building other businesses cause you got the time to do it.
 
Back it up.

Maybe it's true. And your malpractice will be an order of magnitude higher, at least.

Reproductive Endocrinology and Maternal Fetal Medicine make bank and have good lifestyles, and can generally pick from cash and great insurances... they are hard to match in to though. But if you get stuck in regular obgyn you're not making a lot for the time you put in and the residency is brutal
 
REI's make bank for sure, it's all discretionary spending by professionals trying to work against the natural constraints of the female reproductive cycle.

But MFM works with a lot of the sickest, poorest, drug addicted mothers. At least in my neck of the woods. I don't see them, here at least, making a visibly appreciable amount more than their generalist colleagues.

Regardless. I'm in the camp that wonders how you could possibly choose between these fields based on salary. OB could pay a millions a year and I wouldn't do it.
 
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Reproductive Endocrinology and Maternal Fetal Medicine make bank and have good lifestyles, and can generally pick from cash and great insurances... they are hard to match in to though. But if you get stuck in regular obgyn you're not making a lot for the time you put in and the residency is brutal

lol, that's PGY-7 training. 4 + 3 fellowship.

Regardless. I'm in the camp that wonders how you could possibly choose between these fields based on salary. OB could pay a millions a year and I wouldn't do it.

x1000
 
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Not making this up.

I know several doctors that work crazy hours, and guess what? Their trophy wife divorced them, they have screwed up kids, and have to give up half of their income anyways to the ex-wife.

The day and age of the faithful wife that pretty much manages everything at home so the doctor husband can work 80 hours a week is pretty much over. I know some wives that are willing to do this but before this was the norm. Now it's an exception.

You can't simply base the job you want on the money. If you hate your job, you're going to go nuts sooner or later unless you get out of it. If you love your job, work won't seem like work. Money does matter but so do other things, and you have to rate is as simply one factor in a multifactorial equation.

If someone loved Ob-Gyn, loved the hard-working hours, and wanted the money--hey perfect fit I'd say. More power to you.
 
Not making this up.

I know several doctors that work crazy hours, and guess what? Their trophy wife divorced them, they have screwed up kids, and have to give up half of their income anyways to the ex-wife.

The day and age of the faithful wife that pretty much manages everything at home so the doctor husband can work 80 hours a week is pretty much over. I know some wives that are willing to do this but before this was the norm. Now it's an exception.

You can't simply base the job you want on the money. If you hate your job, you're going to go nuts sooner or later unless you get out of it. If you love your job, work won't seem like work. Money does matter but so do other things, and you have to rate is as simply one factor in a multifactorial equation.

If someone loved Ob-Gyn, loved the hard-working hours, and wanted the money--hey perfect fit I'd say. More power to you.

Yes! The illusion is that adequate amount of money will someday free up time to do other things or lessen other worries. Unfortunately many of those things in the future require long term time and energy investment. Relationships take time to build, and to maintain. Deferring those investments has consequences, and jobs with excessively high work hours just for a higher paycheck leads down that road.
 
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I spent about 10 hours a week managing my stock portfolio that's been doing very well, in addition to spending about 5-7 hours a week in the gym, being happy in my marriage, raising two kids (my wife does most of the work but she's also working on a doctorate), and being happy with my social life.

If I were in a field like Ob-Gyn I wouldn't have the time to do most of the above. My dad is a surgeon, and he lost on average 50K a year doing stocks, over a lifetime probably lost a few million, only reason why my mom stuck with him was because they came from a day and age from a different country where no one divorced, and I hardly ever spent real quality time with him.

So one can boast all they want about how much more money they make then me, though I suspect our real incomes are actually quite close given the money I'm making doing other things while using my income as a psychiatrist as merely the principle for the foundation of those investments, just that the other guy makes all of it via work while I make a sizeable chunk outside of the usual job.

(Most of my stocks are in REITs, a high dividend cell phone company, put over 75K in DDD at 29, now at 53, and I'm currently look into the viability of some emerging technology sectors. I have a 15 year mortgage on a home at 3.25 interest and if I wanted to, I could pay all of it this minute, though I'd rather put it in investments since I've been averaging about 25% on them for the last 10 years).

I know a psychiatrist that does very well doing real-estate on the side. Like I said above, you usually can't have these side ventures done if you work in a field like surgery or Ob-Gyn and the 6 figure salary in psychiatry, while lower than other fields of medicine, allows you the time to enter other ventures, while having a steady and stable stream for capital.
 
I spent about 10 hours a week managing my stock portfolio that's been doing very well, in addition to spending about 5-7 hours a week in the gym, being happy in my marriage, raising two kids (my wife does most of the work but she's also working on a doctorate), and being happy with my social life.

If I were in a field like Ob-Gyn I wouldn't have the time to do most of the above. My dad is a surgeon, and he lost on average 50K a year doing stocks, over a lifetime probably lost a few million, only reason why my mom stuck with him was because they came from a day and age from a different country where no one divorced, and I hardly ever spent real quality time with him.

So one can boast all they want about how much more money they make then me, though I suspect our real incomes are actually quite close given the money I'm making doing other things while using my income as a psychiatrist as merely the principle for the foundation of those investments, just that the other guy makes all of it via work while I make a sizeable chunk outside of the usual job.

(Most of my stocks are in REITs, a high dividend cell phone company, put over 75K in DDD at 29, now at 53, and I'm currently look into the viability of some emerging technology sectors. I have a 15 year mortgage on a home at 3.25 interest and if I wanted to, I could pay all of it this minute, though I'd rather put it in investments since I've been averaging about 25% on them for the last 10 years).

I know a psychiatrist that does very well doing real-estate on the side. Like I said above, you usually can't have these side ventures done if you work in a field like surgery or Ob-Gyn and the 6 figure salary in psychiatry, while lower than other fields of medicine, allows you the time to enter other ventures, while having a steady and stable stream for capital.

Damn. That's doin it right. Do you need an apprentice?
 
Build up an income for a few years, read up on investing.

Right now I think 3D printing is a possible sector that could explode even more though it's also risky because the cat's out of the bag. Solar is re-emerging from a huge blow from a few years ago where stocks went to about 20% of what they were. It's possible marijuana stocks could explode as well though they too are high risk.

A stock I completely missed out on was TESLA. I thought this company would never make it despite that I'm an environmentalist that wanted them to do so. I could've bought then below $20. I missed out. Now they're almost $200, though if I had some I bet you I likely would've dumped it at $50 not knowing it would've made it where it is now.

Right now, REITs are a good solid foundation that brings in at least 10% a year with little effort.

One venture I was going to do was put money into a franchise but in cases like this you need business partners you trust completely. If you don't and they screw you, you'll have little time to go after them. I've seen doctors do this, their partners do something like scam them out of the money for years or run off with it and the doc, having a full-time job x 2 job (like a surgeon) can't do anything other than accept the loss because to really fight for their money back could take months in court. At this time, however, I have no one I trust enough to join them. A cousin of mine that ran a Jamba Juice heard about my plan, pitched an idea that I put money into a Jamba Juice we could co-own, and I politely said no, knowing the guy is stoned half the time .
 
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I spent about 10 hours a week managing my stock portfolio that's been doing very well, in addition to spending about 5-7 hours a week in the gym, being happy in my marriage, raising two kids (my wife does most of the work but she's also working on a doctorate), and being happy with my social life.

If I were in a field like Ob-Gyn I wouldn't have the time to do most of the above. My dad is a surgeon, and he lost on average 50K a year doing stocks, over a lifetime probably lost a few million, only reason why my mom stuck with him was because they came from a day and age from a different country where no one divorced, and I hardly ever spent real quality time with him.

So one can boast all they want about how much more money they make then me, though I suspect our real incomes are actually quite close given the money I'm making doing other things while using my income as a psychiatrist as merely the principle for the foundation of those investments, just that the other guy makes all of it via work while I make a sizeable chunk outside of the usual job.

(Most of my stocks are in REITs, a high dividend cell phone company, put over 75K in DDD at 29, now at 53, and I'm currently look into the viability of some emerging technology sectors. I have a 15 year mortgage on a home at 3.25 interest and if I wanted to, I could pay all of it this minute, though I'd rather put it in investments since I've been averaging about 25% on them for the last 10 years).

I know a psychiatrist that does very well doing real-estate on the side. Like I said above, you usually can't have these side ventures done if you work in a field like surgery or Ob-Gyn and the 6 figure salary in psychiatry, while lower than other fields of medicine, allows you the time to enter other ventures, while having a steady and stable stream for capital.

Lol. I don't doubt you've invested well, but it pretty ridiculous to say you have a 25% annual return over a decade.

That's better than Warren Buffet or any other investor in the world.

You would be worth > 8 or 9 figures if you could really do that. Warren Buffet is worth ~30 billion (?) and he couldn't touch that. If you could really do that your best bet would be to quit medicine and get some capital.
 
Lol. I don't doubt you've invested well, but it pretty ridiculous to say you have a 25% annual return over a decade.

That's better than Warren Buffet or any other investor in the world.

.

There's a difference between investing a several hundred thousand/million dollar porfolio and a portfolio of billions. Buffet can't invest without moving the market. Also, for Buffet to invest in a very small company would have a negligible effect on his portfolio, even if the company does very well. Also Buffet gets special deals (special arrangements to buy preferred stock/warrants).

One can't compare an individual investor to Buffet
 
That's better than Warren Buffet or any other investor in the world.

Yeah, and if I had billions, I wouldn't be investing the way I do now. As Cramer says, when you do personal investing of your own funds, you're small, light, and can move around quickly. When you have a huge fund, and bought millions into a stock, when you sell, people know about it and it greatly affects the profit margin because they're dumping their stocks while being a big fund, they can only move them slowly.

Biggest stocks I made off on in the last year were DDD (3D Printing) and FB (Facebook). WHZ was making me almost 20% a year purely on dividends. My REITs were making me about 15% a year purely on dividends but because the real estate market went up they went up about 30% on face value too.

Only stock I majorly lost money on in the last 10 years was a lithium battery company, Valence, though that stock made me quite a bit of money over the course of about 7 years. It never really went up but I played the volatiilty cause every few weeks it changed value by about 30%. The last time it changed abruptly---I bought it expecting it to skyrocket again. No-it went bankrupt. So there I was with a stock, waiting for it to skyrocket, and then reading the fine print on the company in the news, I decided I had to pull out, the risk was too high. Having kids greatly affected my mindset too because my mindset now is if I very very badly screw up, it screws them too. So I pulled out on that one losing about 40%, though during the other times I invested on it, I made off about 10-30% a trade every few weeks to months off of it.

Though in the next week it did go completley kaplooey and off the market--> to a value of zero so I guess I can't complain. That's what you get when you do a high risk-high yield stock.
In the big sum of that stock's history with my I was an overwhelming profiter from it. That's what you get when you do a high risk-high yield stock.

I've occasionally, like once a year mention my investments somewhere on SDN. I did at one point, on other threads outside of psychiatry in SDN try to discuss investing with other doctors but I wasn't getting any intelligent responses as a whole to the point where I thought it was worth it. Over 5 years ago, I was mentioning that gold and silver were solid investments, and I was getting comments back to the effect of "only way gold is going to go up is if the world ends." I mentioned this is not how that investment works. Yeah, there's a doom factor but the doom factor is based on the country not doing as well, not banking on the world going zombie apocalypse. When I noticed the majority of the people on the forum not getting it, I knew I wasn't going to really gain anything by talking to them about it.

A nurse I've been working with has been the only source I've been able to consistently talk investments with and get good data. I used to have a patient that was a major hedge fund manager but I told him I could never ever ever take investing information from him despite that he offered, even offered to have me come over his house and start a friendship after he was no longer my patient. (Nuts the guy brings in dozens of millions a year---nuts).

The next big things IMHO could be 1-3D printing (but the cat's already out of the bag, it could plummet) 2-marijuana stocks (very high risk and possibly even illegal to invest in though there are marijuana companes on the OTC and Nasdaq) and 3-possibly forexing on the European union cause our own economy has a gun to it's head with this government shut-down and Europe is allegedly improving, though I've been told don't get into Forex, and so far I don't have enough knowledge to jump into it.
 
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There's a difference between investing a several hundred thousand/million dollar porfolio and a portfolio of billions. Buffet can't invest without moving the market. Also, for Buffet to invest in a very small company would have a negligible effect on his portfolio, even if the company does very well. Also Buffet gets special deals (special arrangements to buy preferred stock/warrants).

One can't compare an individual investor to Buffet

No, you can't compare an individual investor to one of the best all time. Yes, hundreds of millions shift a market - which means it is more difficult for Buffet in many ways... BUT - to average 25% return over 10 years would give results like this:

100k --> 931k after 10 years. Take that over 20 years? 8.6 million

A person with 25% returns could easily push 25-50% of their income into investing - let's say 50k a year... Starting with 0$ and investing 50k @ 25% return over a decade is 2 million... do that once more over a decade and you have nearly 20 million dollars.

And 2-20 million dollars isn't going to "move the market" as Buffet can move the market.

Reality is that there is a lot of uncertainty in these investments - because if someone really could create 25% returns then you're sitting on 20 million after 20 years - with just $4,000 a month investment.

Money is cheap now also - you can borrow funds at < 5-8% pretty much anywhere, so a real 25% return when you can get funds for < 10% then why not leverage and get as much $ as you can?

The claim is you can beat borrowed rates by > 15% - basically leading to an infinite return - or at least 8-9 figures before the "market starts moving" as you say, due to your investments.

Yeah, and if I had billions, I wouldn't be investing the way I do now. As Cramer says, when you do personal investing of your own funds, you're small, light, and can move around quickly. When you have a huge fund, and bought millions into a stock, when you sell, people know about it and it greatly affects the profit margin because they're dumping their stocks while being a big fund, they can only move them slowly.

Biggest stocks I made off on in the last year were DDD (3D Printing) and FB (Facebook). WHZ was making me almost 20% a year purely on dividends. My REITs were making me about 15% a year purely on dividends but because the real estate market went up they went up about 30% on face value too.

Only stock I majorly lost money on in the last 10 years was a lithium battery company, Valence, though that stock made me quite a bit of money over the course of about 7 years. It never really went up but I played the volatiilty cause every few weeks it changed value by about 30%. The last time it changed abruptly---I bought it expecting it to skyrocket again. No-it went bankrupt. So there I was with a stock, waiting for it to skyrocket, and then reading the fine print on the company in the news, I decided I had to pull out, the risk was too high. Having kids greatly affected my mindset too because my mindset now is if I very very badly screw up, it screws them too. So I pulled out on that one losing about 40%, though during the other times I invested on it, I made off about 10-30% a trade every few weeks to months off of it.

Though in the next week it did go completley kaplooey and off the market--> to a value of zero so I guess I can't complain. That's what you get when you do a high risk-high yield stock.
In the big sum of that stock's history with my I was an overwhelming profiter from it. That's what you get when you do a high risk-high yield stock.

I've occasionally, like once a year mention my investments somewhere on SDN. I did at one point, on other threads outside of psychiatry in SDN try to discuss investing with other doctors but I wasn't getting any intelligent responses as a whole to the point where I thought it was worth it. Over 5 years ago, I was mentioning that gold and silver were solid investments, and I was getting comments back to the effect of "only way gold is going to go up is if the world ends." I mentioned this is not how that investment works. Yeah, there's a doom factor but the doom factor is based on the country not doing as well, not banking on the world going zombie apocalypse. When I noticed the majority of the people on the forum not getting it, I knew I wasn't going to really gain anything by talking to them about it.

A nurse I've been working with has been the only source I've been able to consistently talk investments with and get good data. I used to have a patient that was a major hedge fund manager but I told him I could never ever ever take investing information from him despite that he offered, even offered to have me come over his house and start a friendship after he was no longer my patient. (Nuts the guy brings in dozens of millions a year---nuts).

The next big things IMHO could be 1-3D printing (but the cat's already out of the bag, it could plummet) 2-marijuana stocks (very high risk and possibly even illegal to invest in though there are marijuana companes on the OTC and Nasdaq) and 3-possibly forexing on the European union cause our own economy has a gun to it's head with this government shut-down and Europe is allegedly improving, though I've been told don't get into Forex, and so far I don't have enough knowledge to jump into it.

I'm not doubting your investment skills or that you have made excellent predictions in the past... I think average 25% over 10 years is pretty crazy - and if you really have a 10 year track record with that type of return - then it would be prudent to quit medicine and get $500,000 by whatever means possible at whatever interest rate possible. Because 500k turns into nearly 5 million in 10 years.

If you're dealing with < 1-10 million, then there wouldn't be any trouble investing in small companies.
 
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Obviously whopper is a smart guy, but also obvious he has been lucky when it comes to investing or is a financial genius, 25% yearly returns in the stock market just isn't sustainable without a tremendous amount luck.
 
, 25% yearly returns in the stock market just isn't sustainable without a tremendous amount luck.

I think some of his investments are not part of the stock market (and those that are appear to be small caps)

as far as happygilmore's comments, I would be interested in hearing from whopper if he leaves the money in investments (and lets it compound) or if he takes out some of his earnings each year to live on.

Whopper, thanks for sharing your tips with us.
 
I was able to pay off all of my student debt about 3 years after residency due to investing.

In medschool I made about 6 figures doing it, and by taking a year off. I made the biggest bulk of capital selling toys on Ebay, though my profit margins are to the degree now where selling toys would be cost-ineffective.

No way would I leave psychiatry. Love it too much. I did have two years in the past where I did lose more than I made. Another factor I've noticed is that as I've gotten older and had kids, I'm investing a lot more conservatively. There have been times where I was severely down and a young man can handle that but I'm getting away from being a young man.

The other thing is that by my conventional wisdom--which has been wrong in the last 6 months, the market should've dropped tremendously. I'm just wondering when it'll happen, if it'll happen. I've moved most of the money out of the market in the last 2 months with about 6 figures sitting in an interest account waiting for the bubble to pop, but still willing to pick up some stocks only on weakness.

Oh and by the way, the investing has become another factor in a big headache of what to do with my long-term career, because IMHO private practice is more geared towards doing private business including investing--but I like teaching, giving lectures, and being a part of a team consisting of some truly brilliant people that I hardly see outside of academia.
 
Seeing as this seems like the designated financial advice thread, what are you alls thoughts about the considerations that go into buying a house during residency?
 
Questions you need to ask yourself....

1) Will you stay in the area? cause from there you need to figure out if you'll stay in that house or if it's a temporary thing. If it's temporary how long do you plan on holding it?
2) What are your hours like in residency?

Reason why #2 is important is if you're planning on moving, you need to sell that house before you leave or at least you'll want to get this done. Trying to get that done while working crazy hours and possibly having to worry about Step III and/or your board exam is too much to deal with while actually enjoying life. It is a big pain in the butt to leave an area for a new job and not have the house issue settled cause you might have to fly/drive back from time to time or be spending hours getting things faxed back and forth to you. If you're married, your spouse could handle this for you unless he/she is too a resident (or in another field) that has no time on his/her hands.

But aside from the above interest rates are very low and this is expected to change possibly drastically in the next few years, and real estate on a national level is going up. A problem with the latter is that local trends can defy the national. While I was in Atlantic City, the real estate values were through the roof despite that they plummeted on a national level. Now real estate values are going up nationally though I suspect (and haven't checked) that they have plummted in Atlantic City due to loss of casino revenue and the hurricane.

The government has or at least had a law that if you purchased your first home you'd get a massive tax deduction, but if I remember correctly you lose that deduction if you sell it before holding onto it for a few years. I forgot the specifics. You may want to factor this into your decision if you're not planning on staying in the same area as residency.

As a resident, you'll likely not have a long credit history, making getting a loan possibly harder to do. Another problem is bankers don't understand the medical education system. They might ask you an idiotic question like, "why do you only make 40K a year if you're a doctor?" Tell them you're a resident and they might not understand. Happened to me when I was a fellow, and an attending for a year before that. "Doctor, why did you accept a paycut of over $125K?", "I told you, I became a fellow. I did it to become a specialist." We've never seen this before. When I present this to the board, they're going to see you as a reckless person that switches from job to job and had to take a drastically lower paying one."

No those weren't the exact quotes but they were to the same effect of what happened. I had to spend a few hours of getting former bosses to write notes up to the bank telling them the situation and even then I don't think they understood it.
 
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We've never seen this before. When I present this to the board, they're going to see you as a reckless person that switches from job to job and had to take a drastically lower paying one."

Typical reckless doctor. Can't even negotiate to keep his salary at the same level of an attending while in fellowship.


As an aside, do you believe you were doing the work of an attending while in fellowship?
 
The work of an attending? Do you mean the quality? I think so. I think, in general, actually, as a whole, and this is based on experience, not on any study I've seen, I think newer doctors and senior residents actually do better work than most attendings. The work I did in fellowship IMHO was better than several attendings in the state institution and that's not a personal boast because that's true of almost all the fellows that went through the fellowship.

In terms of workload, the fellows were doing more work than most of the attendings in the state institution.
 
The work of an attending? Do you mean the quality? I think so. I think, in general, actually, as a whole, and this is based on experience, not on any study I've seen, I think newer doctors and senior residents actually do better work than most attendings. The work I did in fellowship IMHO was better than several attendings in the state institution and that's not a personal boast because that's true of almost all the fellows that went through the fellowship.

In terms of workload, the fellows were doing more work than most of the attendings in the state institution.

Yeah, probably mostly because residents/fellows have no financial incentive to do 5-minute med checks.
 
Yeah, probably mostly because residents/fellows have no financial incentive to do 5-minute med checks.

That and fellows/residents are graded by doctors that usually give a damn, the academic culture has beenf for f/r's to actually work while some antisocial doctors literally believe being a doctor means a free pass to be lazy and earn a lot of money, r/fs are often not yet jaded, and if an attending does a bad job, there are often few consequences.

Don't believe me? Run a pill mill. You might get caught by the government, after may a decade or two of extremely poor practice. That's what I'm talking about. f'/rs are under an impression that if they do anything wrong--> off with your head. I see piss-poor doctors all the time get away with their poor practice and hardly anything happens to them.

In no way shape or form am I advocating for poor practice. If anything I'm saying this because I want people to be more aware of poor care in the community so more action is taken to improve it.
 
That and fellows/residents are graded by doctors that usually give a damn, the academic culture has beenf for f/r's to actually work while some antisocial doctors literally believe being a doctor means a free pass to be lazy and earn a lot of money, r/fs are often not yet jaded, and if an attending does a bad job, there are often few consequences.

Don't believe me? Run a pill mill. You might get caught by the government, after may a decade or two of extremely poor practice. That's what I'm talking about. f'/rs are under an impression that if they do anything wrong--> off with your head. I see piss-poor doctors all the time get away with their poor practice and hardly anything happens to them.

In no way shape or form am I advocating for poor practice. If anything I'm saying this because I want people to be more aware of poor care in the community so more action is taken to improve it.

:thumbup:
An accurate summary.
 
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