Obamacare is a Complete Failure

[ScrubsMD]

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I just found out about it a couple of weeks ago, there was some legal rambling going on for a couple of years among my family back home, but when I found out how much I got, it was very nice surprise, like I suddenly won the lottery.

If what his face like Japanese girls, good for him. I had a Korean American wife. Growing up in America, Asian women are a bit too servile.

Whenever I make a trip to Eastern Europe, its like heaven.

What does this have to do with ACA?

 

[Mad Jack]

^ This. If Canada is so amazing and they get paid so much more then why isn't there an influx and my physician I shadowed way back when from Canada said that about half of his class left for the states upon graduation.

The only reason more physicians don't leave Canada is that they have created a system where the Canadian government has to sponsor your visa if you want to do a US residency, even if you don't want to go back to Canada. They only approve a finite number of visas for each specialty (sometimes none), so basically they're trapping you and forcing you to either go into primary care (or fight for the few visas available for a given specialty) or stay in Canada for residency.

 

[Seth Joo]

What does this have to do with ACA?

Peace bro, Peace.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

I just found out about it a couple of weeks ago, there was some legal rambling going on for a couple of years among my family back home, but when I found out how much I got, it was very nice surprise, like I suddenly won the lottery.

If what his face like Japanese girls, good for him. I had a Korean American wife. Growing up in America, Asian women are a bit too servile.

Whenever I make a trip to Eastern Europe, its like heaven. Now that I got some dosh, I am going to meet Roosh.

Guy, what the hell are you talking about? Please get back on topic.

I'll add my two cents:
Obamacare lowered my premiums, we'll see how it plays out but for the next 4 years in med school I stand to save roughly 20k in premiums.

 

[Seth Joo]

The only reason more physicians don't leave Canada is that they have created a system where the Canadian government has to sponsor your visa if you want to do a US residency, even if you don't want to go back to Canada. They only approve a finite number of visas for each specialty (sometimes none), so basically they're trapping you and forcing you to either go into primary care (or fight for the few visas available for a given specialty) or stay in Canada for residency.

Montreal is the reason they don't leave Canada. Aight.

 

[Seth Joo]

Guy, what the hell are you talking about? Please get back on topic.

I'll add my two cents:
Obamacare lowered my premiums, we'll see how it plays out but for the next 4 years in med school I stand to save roughly 20k in premiums.

Alright, I was just rambling. My doctor has been getting worse since Obamacare has been implemented.

 

[Mad Jack]

Guy, what the hell are you talking about? Please get back on topic.

I'll add my two cents:
Obamacare lowered my premiums, we'll see how it plays out but for the next 4 years in med school I stand to save roughly 20k in premiums.

You have cheaper premiums, but the trouble is you probably also lost a good deal of coverage compared to your old plan or have a higher deductible. I'd check out your benefits and how they stack up with your old ones.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

You have cheaper premiums, but the trouble is you probably also lost a good deal of coverage compared to your old plan or have a higher deductible. I'd check out your benefits and how they stack up with your old ones.

Give me a little credit...I matched my old plan to this new one in terms of benefits. Basically I'm getting a tax break which is applied to the new premium, (they were both the same cost, one was on the market place and the other was not) after working as a single engineer for several years and getting raped on taxes, I'm fine with it.

 

[Mad Jack]

Give me a little credit...I matched my old plan to this new one in terms of benefits. Basically I'm getting a tax break which is applied to the new premium, (they were both the same cost, one was on the market place and the other was not) after working as a single engineer for several years and getting raped on taxes, I'm fine with it.

Ah, so it's the subsidy that's made it cheaper. That makes sense.

 

[Mad Jack]

He's a troll.



I'd probably be ok with that. My plan is pretty deluxe but I'm paying for a lot that im unlikely to use in the near future as a 30 yr old with no real health issues

As a surgeon you'll have plenty of cash to deal with high deductibles and whatnot, so you might as well capitalize on the cheap premiums while you can. I'm on the less healthy side of the spectrum, unfortunately, and it all sort of piled on this year (yay for hitting 30 and being unhealthy, amirite?!), so I can't really mess around with less robust insurance plans anymore.

 

[charmiedermie]

Guy, what the hell are you talking about? Please get back on topic.

I'll add my two cents:
Obamacare lowered my premiums, we'll see how it plays out but for the next 4 years in med school I stand to save roughly 20k in premiums.

But have u ever had to use it?

 

[KnuxNole]

Hopefully premiums get cheaper, when I actually get a job, I fear that they'll charge a lot for services I won't use..right now, I am thankful every day I'm not sick, or else I won't be able to afford admission stays, and just tough an appy out at home :O

 

[ConfusedChemist]

T

Just another reason left-leaning physicians should be tripping over each other to go practice in Canada, yet for some reason you don't see that happening

That's because Canadian Dr's don't work less hours, or make more money.
On the other hand, Canadians often go work in the states to pay off loans because they make more there.

 

[67552931811]

I just found out about it a couple of weeks ago, there was some legal rambling going on for a couple of years among my family back home, but when I found out how much I got, it was very nice surprise, like I suddenly won the lottery.

If what his face like Japanese girls, good for him. I had a Korean American wife. Growing up in America, Asian women are a bit too servile.

Whenever I make a trip to Eastern Europe, its like heaven. Now that I got some dosh, I am going to meet Roosh.

Said, no one. Ever.

 

[Seth Joo]

The problem with the ACA is that its very watered down, its not a single payer healthcare system, also reimbursements are falling for specialists. Sorry about my weird posts yesterday, I had some unusual drama with my signifcant other flooding my phone with texts. But anyway with the current system of privatized student loans, we bear the financial burden of our education with the prospect of dwindling incomes, which is a form of larceny against us. The only people winning here are the school administrators and he insurance companies, the losers are the doctors, the patients, and of course the students.

People call this "Obamacare" we forget that it was washed over with Republican wash. The ACA is a huge pro Insurance company bill. It is not the European style healthcare system that people thought they were going to get.

I have actually experienced the health care system on the other side of the pond and its a night and day difference.

 

[Seth Joo]

T

That's because Canadian Dr's don't work less hours, or make more money.
On the other hand, Canadians often go work in the states to pay off loans because they make more there.

Canadian doctors actually do pretty well.

 

[ScrubsMD]

The problem with the ACA is that its very watered down, its not a single payer healthcare system, also reimbursements are falling for specialists. Sorry about my weird posts yesterday, I had some unusual drama with my signifcant other flooding my phone with texts. But anyway with the current system of privatized student loans, we bear the financial burden of our education with the prospect of dwindling incomes, which is a form of larceny against us. The only people winning here are the school administrators and he insurance companies, the losers are the doctors, the patients, and of course the students.

People call this "Obamacare" we forget that it was washed over with Republican wash. The ACA is a huge pro Insurance company bill. It is not the European style healthcare system that people thought they were going to get.

Yeah, yesterday was wierd...

And Obama had almost nothing to do with aca except pass it. I think for most people it's just a slip of the tongue.

Also, when we say single payer, I don't think most people mean medicare for all, more like a mix of coverage, with a guarantee that all citizens are covered. At least that's what I mean when I talk about it with people.

 

[moonwake]

Yeah, yesterday was wierd...

And Obama had almost nothing to do with aca except pass it. I think for most people it's just a slip of the tongue.

Also, when we say single payer, I don't think most people mean medicare for all, more like a mix of coverage, with a guarantee that all citizens are covered. At least that's what I mean when I talk about it with people.

I don't know with universal things like social security and medicare (in the fact that everyone can get it eventually). They're sort of the mockery of the system. A lot of people are always talking about how we can't rely on social security. Why? Because the system is always changing. We have the baby-booming age and with people getting older the system that worked pre-baby-boomer era will probably not work the same for this generation where most people are living to be 80+. With that being said, having free market health-care has its downsides but whenever you go universal, you don't have businesses trying to appeal to customers to get them to sign up under them. Without people actively trying to improve the policies I feel like that's when things stagnate. I mean look at the government owned organizations right now and tell me they aren't some of the worst places. Post office, DMV, etc. Long lines, and not personable workers who look like they hate their job everytime you go in. That's what we'd be "introducing" into the system rather than what we have now. And you might say that's irrelevant but it's just to show that they don't put a whole lot of time and effort to make it a good experience for the consumer.

 

[MedWonk]

Yeah, yesterday was wierd...

And Obama had almost nothing to do with aca except pass it. I think for most people it's just a slip of the tongue.

Also, when we say single payer, I don't think most people mean medicare for all, more like a mix of coverage, with a guarantee that all citizens are covered. At least that's what I mean when I talk about it with people.

That's a bit disingenuous. He may have borrowed heavily from the proposal the Heritage Foundation set forth once upon a time, but the guy made it a central issue of both his presidential campaigns. Proposal to passage wasn't this simple thing that just happened. He was heavily involved in lobbying for its passage, and has come out in defense of it numerous times throughout his tenure. It's not some footnote to the legacy he'll leave behind.

Also, stop calling it single payer if what you mean is a mix of coverage. You're talking about universal coverage. Single payer is a method by which we may achieve universal coverage. The ACA is ostensibly mixed coverage system that provides universal coverage, but is not single payer. Instead of implying something, just say it directly so that there is no confusion as that what you actually are talking about. And if they don't get it, you can explain it to them. It'll be practice for all the mansplaining you'll be doing with patients, like how the caloric content of food doesn't exactly have to do with the size of the food item (true story).

 

[charmiedermie]

Yeah, yesterday was wierd...

And Obama had almost nothing to do with aca except pass it. I think for most people it's just a slip of the tongue.

Also, when we say single payer, I don't think most people mean medicare for all, more like a mix of coverage, with a guarantee that all citizens are covered. At least that's what I mean when I talk about it with people.

Its not a slip of the tongue, Obama and his advisors had a central role in this bill. Obama made healthcare a major issue in his campaign. His views on this issue are very revealing both before he ran for president and during the campaign.

No, when people mean single payer they do mean a Medicare-type program for all. If its a mix of coverage then its not single payer. You mean universal healthcare.

 

[Seth Joo]

I don't know with universal things like social security and medicare (in the fact that everyone can get it eventually). They're sort of the mockery of the system. A lot of people are always talking about how we can't rely on social security. Why? Because the system is always changing. We have the baby-booming age and with people getting older the system that worked pre-baby-boomer era will probably not work the same for this generation where most people are living to be 80+. With that being said, having free market health-care has its downsides but whenever you go universal, you don't have businesses trying to appeal to customers to get them to sign up under them. Without people actively trying to improve the policies I feel like that's when things stagnate. I mean look at the government owned organizations right now and tell me they aren't some of the worst places. Post office, DMV, etc. Long lines, and not personable workers who look like they hate their job everytime you go in. That's what we'd be "introducing" into the system rather than what we have now. And you might say that's irrelevant but it's just to show that they don't put a whole lot of time and effort to make it a good experience for the consumer.

Honestly, the American way of suspicion towards Gubment is just crazy. But then again this is a country of 300 million people, Europe is a Continent of different smaller countries with their own different governments and systems, but they work fairly well.

I really do not like these Tea Party types who say you got to pull yourselves by the Boot straps I guess you do not need public schools, highways, airports, etc. I bet if you put these folks in the woods with nothing but a stick and maybe some stones they would be crying uncle in an hour.

But do not call me a Left wing liberal either. I am Mr Middle Ground.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

But have u ever had to use it?

I have not, and I'm making no positive argument for it's effectiveness or efficiency, only that I stand to save a truckload of cash on my premiums. This is relevant for me because I also haven't' had to use my private policy for more than a PCD visit in the last 3 years.

 

[Seth Joo]

I have not, and I'm making no positive argument for it's effectiveness or efficiency, only that I stand to save a truckload of cash on my premiums. This is relevant for me because I also haven't' had to use my private policy for more than a PCD visit in the last 5 years.

I only know that I get collection calls left and right because of a sprained ankle and the my doctor wants to squeeze extra money because my insurance company shortchanged him. So I think Obamacare which is really Republican sucks.

 

[acceptmeplease]

I only know that I get collection calls left and right because of a sprained ankle and the my doctor wants to squeeze extra money because my insurance company shortchanged him. So I think Obamacare which is really Republican sucks.

It was not a republican law. It was introduced by a democrat congressman, passed by democrat majority in the house and senate, and enacted into law by a democrat president.

The house republicans who initially supported it and passed it, voted against it when the senate added the individual mandate.

 

[moonwake]

It was not a republican law. It was introduced by a democrat congressman, passed by democrat majority in the house and senate, and enacted into law by a democrat president.

The house republicans who initially supported it and passed it, voted against it when the senate added the individual mandate.

Yeah how can you say it's republican....

 

[Seth Joo]

It was not a republican law. It was introduced by a democrat congressman, passed by democrat majority in the house and senate, and enacted into law by a democrat president.

The house republicans who initially supported it and passed it, voted against it when the senate added the individual mandate.

The Republicans washed it down. Obama initially wanted a public option, a public insurance system similar what is found in European countries like Germany.

 

[acceptmeplease]

The Republicans washed it down. Obama initially wanted a public option, a public insurance system similar what is found in European countries like Germany.

The republicans didn't have the bargaining power to do anything.

And since when has Obama not signed anything he didn't absolutely love? He is the least bipartisan president we have ever had.

Have you been accepted to medical school yet?

 

[NontradCA]

Given the title, this is exactly what I expected out of this thread. thanx obaba

 

[Seth Joo]

The republicans didn't have the bargaining power to do anything.

And since when has Obama not signed anything he didn't absolutely love? He is the least bipartisan president we have ever had.

Have you been accepted to medical school yet?

I am a third year going into the fourth.

 

[acceptmeplease]

I am a third year going into the fourth.

Frightening.

 

[Baller MD]

That's not all folks,

Obama wants to cut funding to teaching hospitals:

http://www.blog.greatzs.com/2015/02/how-much-does-obama-hate-doctors-let-me.html

 

[Mad Jack]

That's not all folks,

Obama wants to cut funding to teaching hospitals:

http://www.blog.greatzs.com/2015/02/how-much-does-obama-hate-doctors-let-me.html

It's actually not all that bad of a proposal if you read it. Always give a law a cursory read before you hate on it dude.

 

[Baller MD]

It's actually not all that bad of a proposal if you read it. Always give a law a cursory read before you hate on it dude.

My mistake for only reading the blog.

 

[Ed Tom Bell]

You don't understand. Most of the time the provider networks are nebulous, even after you sign up. Furthermore, people often don't know what specialists they'll need. So they pick a plan that works for them now, but oh *snap* (literally) you broke your tibia and need an ortho. You never considered it before, because you're an average dumb consumer that didn't plan on making sure every one of the 40+ specialties of medicine was available in your immediate area, by looking through plan after plan tediously for each specialty one by one.

It isn't a user friendly system. It is designed to screw consumers.

So, are you saying that things were better pre-ACA?

 

[Mad Jack]

So, are you saying that things were better pre-ACA?

Yes.

 

[Ed Tom Bell]

Yes.

Because I see you complaining about a lot of things that were true well before ACA. And I notice you haven't mentioned that people can no longer be simply kicked off their coverage because they got sick, or be refused coverage for pre existing conditions, or have their coverage capped, or the fact that we now have millions more covered than prior to ACA. Do you miss those things? I see you naming a bunch of things that I've been hearing about since I started working in health insurance in the late 90s. None of what your are saying is new. So if you're going to attack the ACA, then attack the ACA. Don't just pull some bait and switch move by saying "oh, ACA is so bad and i'm going to prove it by naming everything that's wrong with the US healthcare system". Because as far as I can see, that's all you're doing. All the problems of the US healthcare system are not owned by the ACA, all that is owned by the ACA are the difference pre and post ACA.

 

[Mad Jack]

Because I see you complaining about a lot of things that were true well before ACA. And I notice you haven't mentioned that people can no longer be simply kicked off their coverage because they got sick, or be refused coverage for pre existing conditions, or have their coverage capped, or the fact that we now have millions more covered than prior to ACA. Do you miss those things? I see you naming a bunch of things that I've been hearing about since I started working in health insurance in the late 90s. None of what your are saying is new. So if you're going to attack the ACA, then attack the ACA. Don't just pull some bait and switch move by saying "oh, ACA is so bad and i'm going to prove it by naming everything that's wrong with the US healthcare system". Because as far as I can see, that's all you're doing. All the problems of the US healthcare system are not owned by the ACA, all that is owned by the ACA are the difference pre and post ACA.

I was attacking the ACA. You're bringing up the problems it solved without addressing the problems it created. Ultra-high deductibles and higher premiums for a given coverage level, as well as ultra-narrow provider networks are the faults of the ACA. Covering more people with coverage that wastes their money and then gives them deductibles that are so high that they'll never hit them unless they're seriously ill is a consequence of the ACA, and largely doesn't benefit the people it was designed to help. The ACA was used by insurance companies as a tool to get exactly what they'd wanted for 20 years, and the Democrats dumbly just let them do it.

 

[charmiedermie]

I have not, and I'm making no positive argument for it's effectiveness or efficiency, only that I stand to save a truckload of cash on my premiums. This is relevant for me because I also haven't' had to use my private policy for more than a PCD visit in the last 3 years.

So if thats the case then youd be better off with only a catastrophic plan

 

[Seth Joo]

That's not all folks,

Obama wants to cut funding to teaching hospitals:

http://www.blog.greatzs.com/2015/02/how-much-does-obama-hate-doctors-let-me.html

And you think the Republicans would not cut spending and programs either?

 

[acceptmeplease]

And you think the Republicans would not cut spending and programs either?

Get off the democrats' D.

You went from being completely misinformed and wrong on every situation, to speculating on what republicans would or would not do.

It doesn't matter what republicans do as long as the supreme emperor is in the White House because he refuses to acknowledge any of his shortcomings, he refuses to listen to voters, and he refuses to work with republicans.

 

[Ed Tom Bell]

I was attacking the ACA. You're bringing up the problems it solved without addressing the problems it created. Ultra-high deductibles and higher premiums for a given coverage level, as well as ultra-narrow provider networks are the faults of the ACA. Covering more people with coverage that wastes their money and then gives them deductibles that are so high that they'll never hit them unless they're seriously ill is a consequence of the ACA, and largely doesn't benefit the people it was designed to help. The ACA was used by insurance companies as a tool to get exactly what they'd wanted for 20 years, and the Democrats dumbly just let them do it.

No. No. No. I'm going to assume you are a younger physician and don't have the benefit of historical perspective. Cigna was yanking entire hospital networks out of their plans over reimbursement disputes a decade before ACA (See: Warren Haven Hospital, 1997). Premiums have increased on average 10% yearly for almost 2 decades. The first time I heard the term "transference" was at an exec meeting with a large west coast health insurer when I was helping them launch their medicare Part D product, and what they meant by "transference" was increasing deductibles and out of pocket maxes as a means to increase the bottom line. That was 2004. Your final statement here gets to the point. Your head is so buried in political BS, and so you can't see straight. You have your right hand fighting your left. If you let your political party decide how you think about things, you're just going to end up poorly informed, profoundly boring, and chronically angry. Just do a little research and you'll see that all of the trends you're attributing to your oh so hated president are nothing new.

 

[Mad Jack]

No. No. No. I'm going to assume you are a younger physician and don't have the benefit of historical perspective. Cigna was yanking entire hospital networks out of their plans over reimbursement disputes a decade before ACA (See: Warren Haven Hospital, 1997). Premiums have increased on average 10% yearly for almost 2 decades. The first time I heard the term "transference" was at an exec meeting with a large west coast health insurer when I was helping them launch their medicare Part D product, and what they meant by "transference" was increasing deductibles and out of pocket maxes as a means to increase the bottom line. That was 2004. Your final statement here gets to the point. Your head is so buried in political BS, and so you can't see straight. You have your right hand fighting your left. If you let your political party decide how you think about things, you're just going to end up poorly informed, profoundly boring, and chronically angry. Just do a little research and you'll see that all of the trends you're attributing to your oh so hated president are nothing new.

I don't have a political party. You don't need one to see that this is a freaking failure. I love how disagreeing with Obama=Right wing Fox news watching blowhard. I'm an independent that didn't support Bush, doesn't support Obama, and likely won't support his successor, because both parties suck. Obamacare is an absolute failure because it accelerated the already horrid state of affairs in the insurance market.

 

[Ed Tom Bell]

I don't have a political party. You don't need one to see that this is a freaking failure. I love how disagreeing with Obama=Right wing Fox news watching blowhard. I'm an independent that didn't support Bush, doesn't support Obama, and likely won't support his successor, because both parties suck. Obamacare is an absolute failure because it accelerated the already horrid state of affairs in the insurance market.

Sorry, Mad Jack. You just have that super angry hyperbolic way about you that made me think you were right wing. My mistake. Just one more question for you; If ACA accelerated the "horrid state of affairs", how do you reconcile that statement with the fact that 2014 saw the smallest increase in business healthcare costs in 15 years, and the smallest increase in personal healthcare costs in 50 years? I mean, you seem very knowledgable. Please help me understand.

 

[moonwake]

I'm not shy of admitting I'm a die hard libertarian. I guess I've just lost my faith in humanity. Socialism works great if everyone pulls their own weight but after having lived in France and England and the south... yeah... I guess I'm not changing my mind.

 

[moonwake]

If we head towards socialism we might as well make it communism because someone needs to kick someone's ass when they expect other people to do their work for them.

 

[Mad Jack]

Sorry, Mad Jack. You just have that super angry hyperbolic way about you that made me think you were right wing. My mistake. Just one more question for you; If ACA accelerated the "horrid state of affairs", how do you reconcile that statement with the fact that 2014 saw the smallest increase in business healthcare costs in 15 years, and the smallest increase in personal healthcare costs in 50 years? I mean, you seem very knowledgable. Please help me understand.

I'm super angry because a test at my school was just invalidated because of cheating that I had nothing to do with, so now all of my class has to retake an exam because a small proportion of the students are douchebags. But that's neither here nor there.

The reason we've seen the smallest increase in costs is because of two factors- the highest average deductibles in recorded history, and the increase in copays across the board. While health insurance is currently not rapidly increasing in price, this is largely due to a massive shift in the way the market is structured. Within a few years, I guarantee costs will continue to rise as fast as before, if not faster.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ter...amacare-subsidy-will-increase-8-fold-10-years
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...t-and-you-wont-believe-whats-going-to-happen/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-health-premiums-skyrocketing-by-as/?page=all

Premiums are going to explode because people need to buy insurance or the government will be up their ass.

 

[Ed Tom Bell]

ohhh yeah. I remember people all over Fox News saying how premiums would double or even triple this year....and they didn't. Oh, and that nobody would sign up...and they did. Oh, and the people wouldn't pay after they signed up...and they did that too. OH! And DEATH PANELS!!! That one was my absolute favorite. Look out for them! Lot of good laughs there.
Let's take a look see at what you spend your time reading, Mr. Jack. Washington Times, CNS News, and Forbes!!!! Why don't you just stand in front of a confederate flag with your 3-point hat and an assault weapon?? I mean, if it quacks like a elephant.
Finally, at least read the posts on the thread you started. Another person already explained what everybody who isn't dedicated to ignorance already knows, even with the increased copays, the actual out of pocket expense increased by the smallest amount in decades. You're clinging man. Sorry to hear about your test, that really sucks (really). And least be comforted by the fact that premiums will not explode.

 

[radkat101]

I'm super angry because a test at my school was just invalidated because of cheating that I had nothing to do with, so now all of my class has to retake an exam because a small proportion of the students are douchebags. But that's neither here nor there.

The reason we've seen the smallest increase in costs is because of two factors- the highest average deductibles in recorded history, and the increase in copays across the board. While health insurance is currently not rapidly increasing in price, this is largely due to a massive shift in the way the market is structured. Within a few years, I guarantee costs will continue to rise as fast as before, if not faster.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ter...amacare-subsidy-will-increase-8-fold-10-years
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...t-and-you-wont-believe-whats-going-to-happen/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-health-premiums-skyrocketing-by-as/?page=all

Premiums are going to explode because people need to buy insurance or the government will be up their ass.

Your second link contradicts your argument.

 

[cidem2065]

Regardless of anything directly related to medicine the law has been an absolute disaster for people who work one or more part-time jobs who have seen their hours cut or have been on the butt-end of hiring freezes.

 

[Mad Jack]

Your second link contradicts your argument.

I don't only provide evidence that supports my own argument. Figured I'd help you out.