Obama's AMA Address

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Speed Racer

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Let me preface this by saying:

1: I listened to the whole speech
2: I agreed with most of it (as most of it was logical)

Now, on the issue of Malpractice/tort reform/defensive medicine; I found this to be insulting and dismissive. It was obvious by the reaction of the crowd that this was THE MOST IMPORTANT issue to the audience. And he said things like, "Now don't get too excited" and weak overtures like " We want to look into this"

I am not looking forward to the government taking a bite out of my ***** on both sides of my paycheck, but I could almost stomach it if it meant that I didn't have to worry about losing my house for missing a dissecting AAA or a PE. But Mr. Obama (a Lawyer and Democrat) sent a clear signal that on this issue he will be siding with the trial lawyers.

And your thoughts..........
 
This is the sum total on the issue of medmal in the entire 20+ minute speech:

"Now, I recognize that it will be hard to make some of these changes if doctors feel like they are constantly looking over their shoulder for fear of lawsuits. Some doctors may feel the need to order more tests and treatments to avoid being legally vulnerable. That’s a real issue. And while I’m not advocating caps on malpractice awards which I believe can be unfair to people who’ve been wrongfully harmed, I do think we need to explore a range of ideas about how to put patient safety first, let doctors focus on practicing medicine, and encourage broader use of evidence-based guidelines. That’s how we can scale back the excessive defensive medicine reinforcing our current system of more treatment rather than better care."

If you see it live it was a bit extended as Obama added extra commentary and there were some boo's....
 
It was clearly a speech demonstrating that he will do nothing to enact malpractice reform. We're going to end up with government-run healthcare, WITHOUT the malpractice reform that countries like New Zealand have. IMO, it's going to be the worst of both worlds.
 
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What a joke this whole grandstanding charade is. Even more amusing is the gigantic pink elephant in the room, giant smelly pink turds an all, that everybody seems to avoid directly confronting... that fact that limitation of treatment (or lack thereof) is one of the primary reasons our health expenditures dwarf those of every other nation. HALF of our entire healthcare budget is spent on patients who die within 6 months to a year after treatment. I won't be holding my breath, though, waiting for Washington to address this issue.

I also won't be holding my breath to see a plot of health care expenditure vs. %lawyers.

Misdirection, kids... it's not just for magicians.
 
So here is where I am still confused. He pontificates about his grand scheme and how I can keep my insurance if I like it-good deal, right? However, why would I want to keep paying top dollar for my insurance when there is this vague "public option" which I assume provides near the same level of coverage while at the same time I pay less because you all foot the one trillion dollar price tag? It seems that if this is the case then obviously the majority of the population will shift to this "public option" and swell that one trillion dollar figure while at the same time creating exactly the "trojan horse" he was referring to-the system would evolve into a single payor system which has the possibility of numerous negative effects for pt's and providers alike...

Right? Or am I missing a crucial point?
 
So here is where I am still confused. He pontificates about his grand scheme and how I can keep my insurance if I like it-good deal, right? However, why would I want to keep paying top dollar for my insurance when there is this vague "public option" which I assume provides near the same level of coverage while at the same time I pay less because you all foot the one trillion dollar price tag? It seems that if this is the case then obviously the majority of the population will shift to this "public option" and swell that one trillion dollar figure while at the same time creating exactly the "trojan horse" he was referring to-the system would evolve into a single payor system which has the possibility of numerous negative effects for pt's and providers alike...

Right? Or am I missing a crucial point?

You got it exactly right. Tom Daschle in his book on healthcare reform puts forth this exact plan as a "back door" way of getting the country into a single payer national health plan.

EC3, I agree with you completely. The majority of healthcare dollars we spend at end of life is a waste. Why do we keep doing million dollar workups on 85-year old demented bedbound patients? It's because of medical liability, that's why. If granny dies one day sooner, her family can still sue for a ridiculous sum in non-economic damages.
 
I do think we need to explore a range of ideas about how to put patient safety first, let doctors focus on practicing medicine, and encourage broader use of evidence-based guidelines. That’s how we can scale back the excessive defensive medicine reinforcing our current system of more treatment rather than better care.

Read this part again and read between the words. What bothers me most is that it's clearly blaming the physicians. Patient safety. Evidence based medicine guidelines. Excessive defensive medicine. The finger has been pointed, and it's not the lawyers or even the patients who are at fault. It's us apparently. 😡 This country loves snake oil. It loves herbal "natural remedies" which are unregulated. It love chiropractors and midwives. But it hates us who are more educated, better trained and scientifically ensconced. I don't get it.

And I totally agree about end of life care. We spend more on health care per capita than any other country in the world, but it's only at the end of life. The 100 year old grandparent who's family insists on "doing everything" but can't be bothered to visit. I see the same thing on the other side of life in the NICU and babies with severe intracranial hemorrhages and NEC. Other countries have limits and the physicians are backed up when they say 'enough is enough.' The politicians here don't have the balls to stop care on anyone.
 
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My unwanted liberal views and I are studying for Step I right now. Just ten more days. If I don't do well enough, my exile will be continued for another 3-4 years...

There's hope. I did poorly on Step 1 and still ended up where I wanted to be, although via a circuitous route.

You have no comment on his defense of the current malpractice system?
 
I don't think it is any big secret that the vast majority of our healthcare spending is spent preserving those "precious" couple of months (maybe years) of grandma's life so she too can enjoy drooling in the day room of some die-rise while an underpaid/undereducated/overworked PCA cleans her s hit and waits for urosepsis to set in so she can be admitted for her final very expensive weeks of hospitalization purely because society has guilted the kids into keeping this shell of a person alive, yielding no thought to the abysmal quality of life grandma is actually experiencing...

On a side note, did anyone else find it ominous that in the face of drastic compensation reductions, Pres. Obama felt strongly that malpractice suits shall forever have no ceiling? It seems reasonable to me that if my income is going to be reduced in the future, so should my insurance liability thus reducing the cost of said insurance...
 
Our country loves to have its cake and eat it too: we want to lower costs while increasing coverage. Everyone wants full work ups, no waits, and the right to sue for inordinate amounts if anything goes wrong. And we don't want to raise taxes to pay for it. And we don't want to wait. And we don't want doctors to act be condescending, just as long as they never miss a diangosis.
If we really want reform, we need to cut costs first: cut scans, cut ICU care to gomers and non-sustainable w/ life nicu babies, and accept that we can't catch every single MI, PE, appendicitis, etc in exchange for lower costs. If we take a big cut (which is what's coming), then everyone needs to be willing to take a cut: insurance companies, trial lawyers, tax payers, elderly, the WASPs in the waiting room for a thumb lac..everyone.
 
You have no comment on his defense of the current malpractice system?

Come on, General, don't torment the poor guy. We all remember how hard it was to study for that crappy Step I exam, much less maintain a self-exile from SDN.

Pseudo, you run along and study now. Don't worry, it isn't like this discussion has changed in the past 20 years, I don't think we're in any danger of resolving the issue before you return.

Take care,
Jeff
 
There's hope. I did poorly on Step 1 and still ended up where I wanted to be, although via a circuitous route.

You have no comment on his defense of the current malpractice system?

Argh. Fine. I think it's unfortunate, although I have bigger disappointments regarding him. It's not a surprise since no one from either party has shown interest in national malpractice reform.

However, I don't believe that malpractice or defensive medicine play such a huge role in costs as many around here would like to think. Morale maybe, but not costs. As others have pointed out, states that have adopted malpractice reform have not seen a decrease in costs.

(Note especially California, where they enacted a med mal cap and didn't see any decrease in insurance premiums...until they followed up with legislation to directly limit the premiums. Still hate government interference?)

Anyway, it's still premature to get too excited about this as the details are up in the air.

I do hope that a moderate public plan is included in whatever comes out. By moderate, I mean something like Rockefeller's plan, which would not mandate anyone's participation nor be subsidized by tax funds. I also hope that the AMA will not oppose such a reasonable plan, and am considering canceling my membership depending on their actions on this.

Oh yes, and I ran across some figure recently for end-of-life care, and it is nowhere close to 50 or 90 or 300% of all costs. I'm sure it would be good for people to have more reasonable expectations on that, but it's not the one problem at the heart of everything. Perhaps I'll be able to dig something up on that after the 26th.
 
No one else has any thoughts on this? What happened to the med students?

Well I have a shelf in 24h but sure, I'll throw in a word for the General. I agree with the OP. Agreed with much of what Obama said, but vehemently disagree on tort reform. I will say this though, the only way to control defensive medicine without real tort reform is if the govt ends up dictating what tests we can and can't do. And then we'll at least have a good universal excuse. Missed that epidural hematoma? Sorry, blame Washington bureaucrat #456544 who didn't approve the CT. (and hah, you can't sue the Federalies! There's tort reform for ya).
 
Greetings from bleeding heart liberal Dr-land (sort of):

The article DocCallaway posted was dead-on. We can't have it both ways, but it is politically incorrect to say so. I have several opinions.

1. Health care desperately needs reform. We can't continue this way. More and more people are uninsured, acuity is higher, physician compensation is waning, cost of education is increasing, doctors and hospitals are getting sued for missing a few zebras, people with tiny life expectancy are on ventilators with fancy lines and other state-of-the-art technology (babies, chronically ill, and elderly alike) while the guy who just needed a freakin' PCP to give him a BP pill or two couldn't get that, but the government is paying for his dialysis and organ transplant. 😕

2. Malpractice is a big part of the problem. BUT I don't know that Mr. Obama is in the wrong yet. We have not given him a chance. He said he would look into it, and I think he's right that limiting awards isn't necessarily the best solution. Look at what pseudoknot posted, and I think it's true. If I get my ass hauled into court and am told I f*cked up by following EBM and not CT scanning someone and they win 20K instead of 100K, I am STILL more likely to order more tests, thereby driving up health care costs. And Stitch is right, it's easy to get defensive, but it IS partially our fault. Yes, the system pushes us but WE allow it to affect our practice despite our better judgment, so some of the blame is OURS.

Personally, I think there are better ideas than limiting awards, and this was the only option he seemed uninterested in. For instance, I think med mal courts are a great idea. If doctors are judged by a panel of their peers patients), it will be the patients seriously injured by true negligence and clear mistakes that will get large awards, while doctors who practiced EBM/true standard of care will walk. The indicting jury would screen out plently of cases before they go to trial, and we could do away with "expert witnesses" to testify for a buck. Instead, the jury would be given access to written testimony solicited from other physicians in the field. There are plenty of ways to do this...

3. End of life care is out of control. 30% of medicare dollars are spent on end-of-life care. It's not the one problem, as there is no ONE problem, but it is a big part of it. I think there is only one solution that makes sense. Expand medical futility. Take it out of the hands of families. They're not comfortable or qualified to make the decision, anyway. I can't tell you how many times the family has tried to turn the decision back to me. The new law would be simple: Physicians who have decided to end life support under the auspices of their hospital's futility committee CANNOT be sued. Also, I think any patient in the ICU for more than 48hrs should be automatically reviewed by the committee.

I remember the healthcare discussion at ACEP. Prez Obama was the only one with a doctor on his committee. So while the beginning has not been perfect (hw could it be coming from Washington with only the AMA involved?), nothing is set in stone yet and we cannot expect to be understood while we stand at a distance scoffing. Let's take this as an invitation to come to the table and try to work with Washington as best we can to reach a better solution. Sitting it out has never worked before, and it won't work now. If you don't have time to actually join an action group or visit Washington, post your thoughts where they will be read by people working on the issue. I'm not saying that discussing (and even bitching and moaning) on SDn isn't beneficial, but it won't change anything. Here is an upcoming opportunity to share your thoughts with the public:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/story?id=7845403
 
I am not looking forward to the government taking a bite out of my ***** on both sides of my paycheck, but I could almost stomach it if it meant that I didn't have to worry about losing my house for missing a dissecting AAA or a PE. But Mr. Obama (a Lawyer and Democrat) sent a clear signal that on this issue he will be siding with the trial lawyers.

And your thoughts..........

Of course he will side with the lawyers. He's a lawyer. Sebelius is a lawyer. The other day on CNBC, one of his functionaries was saying how "everyone knows doctors here make much more than their counterparts in other countries" and how "providers would be called on to sacrifice."

It's curious that he didn't stop to compare the salaries of American ambulance chasers to those overseas.

We're not in Kansas anymore.
 
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Of course he will side with the lawyers. He's a lawyer. Sebelius is a lawyer. The other day on CNBC, one of his functionaries was saying how "everyone knows doctors here make much more than their counterparts in other countries" and how "providers would be called on to sacrifice."

It's curious that he didn't stop to compare the salaries of American ambulance chasers to those overseas.

We're not in Kansas anymore.


Those who have the gold, make the rule, and thus make themselves more gold.

Doctors are screwed because traditionally they haven't had the political will to fight the lawyers, and have ceded on multiple fronts. Just look at Medicare and EMTALA. Doctors should have opposed both of those things and fought in courts at the highest level.
 
Just look at Medicare and EMTALA. Doctors should have opposed both of those things and fought in courts at the highest level.

I think these were both very good things for our society. It's really hard for me to imagine how someone could oppose EMTALA in particular. Would you really go back to the days when hospitals would turn away dying people at their doors?

Also, the AMA did vigorously oppose Medicare. It has been pointed out that if they had been more willing to compromise, they might have been able to be part of the process and perhaps the result would have been better for physicians. You can only get so far by saying "no" all the time.
 
I think these were both very good things for our society. It's really hard for me to imagine how someone could oppose EMTALA in particular. Would you really go back to the days when hospitals would turn away dying people at their doors?
I can explain why I'm opposed to EMTALA. It swung the pendulum too far the other way. Private hospitals get no reimbursement for indigent care yet they are prevented from transferring patients to the hospitals that do get state money for that care. They also have to devote huge amounts of resources to patients who are really non-emergent.

I suggest that other than real emergencies such as STEMIs and so on these patients be shunted to the county facilities. I think that the docs at these facilities should be granted soverign immunity so they don't have to bear a huge malpractice burden while rendering free care.
 
Agree with points about limiting EOL care and need for medicolegal reform.

I liked this editorial from NEJM:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMp0903765

I hope the $1 billion allocated to EBM/comparative effectiveness research is spent well, and is linked with any medicolegal reform legislation (as in options 2 or 3 in the NEJM article).
 
According to a paper from 1994 by Ezekiel Emanuel (Obama's chief of staff's brother), the estimated savings from aggressive control of end-of-life care would only be 3.3% of total expenditures.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/330/8/540

It seems like serious cost containment will have to come from reducing administrative waste (i.e., killing the insurance industry, which unfortunately isn't going to happen) and/or reducing utilization, which could be driven mostly by physicians. Have you read Gawande's recent article on this? It's quite fascinating:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all
 
I think these were both very good things for our society. It's really hard for me to imagine how someone could oppose EMTALA in particular. Would you really go back to the days when hospitals would turn away dying people at their doors?

I agree in principle that we shouldn't turn away anyone who need lifesaving care. EMTALA essentially is an unfunded mandate designed to place much of the burden for indigent care on private hospitals. People show up at the door (often walk-ins) and are required by law to get a free medical screening exam. If they get admitted to the hospital we cannot transfer them to a county facility.

Many cities have a designated county hospital for the uninsured, but EMTALA thwarts this system, as there is now no incentive for uninsured to go to the county hospital for appropriate care, and private hospitals are stuck eating the bill.
 
It seems like serious cost containment will have to come from reducing administrative waste (i.e., killing the insurance industry, which unfortunately isn't going to happen) and/or reducing utilization, which could be driven mostly by physicians. Have you read Gawande's recent article on this? It's quite fascinating:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all

We shouldn't kill the insurance industry, but we need to put changes in place to make it more effective.

The first thing we need to do is get rid of employer-based insurance. The current system where people get insurance through an employer is not market-driven as employees have little choice in what plan they choose. To correct this I would tax employer-based health benefits at regular rates, while simultaneously providing a tax credit for private insurance. This would encourage people to find their own insurance rather than one through their employer. This would lead to greater market-driven choices and cost reductions as insurers would now have to compete for customers.

The next thing we need to do is re-think how insurance operates. Why does insurance need to cover $75 office visits and prescription drugs? For most people these things should be out of pocket, and medical insurance should be designed to help in case of "catastrophic" illness, and would kick in once a certain deductible (as chosen by the consumer) kicked in.

I would get rid of Medicare entirely, and give seniors a larger tax credit to purchase private insurance.

Finally we need to get rid of arbitrary "state line" barriers so that all insurance carriers can be national.
 
I agree in principle that we shouldn't turn away anyone who need lifesaving care. EMTALA essentially is an unfunded mandate designed to place much of the burden for indigent care on private hospitals. People show up at the door (often walk-ins) and are required by law to get a free medical screening exam. If they get admitted to the hospital we cannot transfer them to a county facility.

Many cities have a designated county hospital for the uninsured, but EMTALA thwarts this system, as there is now no incentive for uninsured to go to the county hospital for appropriate care, and private hospitals are stuck eating the bill.

Well, joining the rest of the industrialized world in providing universal coverage should fix this problem.

I know Massachusetts hasn't seen a decrease in ED utilization since they enacted their universal coverage policy, but does anyone know what has happened to ED revenue? It seems like equal utilization with everyone being insured should have helped, but who knows.
 
Well, joining the rest of the industrialized world in providing universal coverage should fix this problem.

I know Massachusetts hasn't seen a decrease in ED utilization since they enacted their universal coverage policy, but does anyone know what has happened to ED revenue? It seems like equal utilization with everyone being insured should have helped, but who knows.

Just like Canada, where there are now an increasing number of private clinics because the public system can't handle everything.....

Just because others do something, doesn't mean that we should too.

Read this article, I think it perfectly sums up my argument:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html
 
We shouldn't kill the insurance industry, but we need to put changes in place to make it more effective.

The first thing we need to do is get rid of employer-based insurance. The current system where people get insurance through an employer is not market-driven as employees have little choice in what plan they choose. To correct this I would tax employer-based health benefits at regular rates, while simultaneously providing a tax credit for private insurance. This would encourage people to find their own insurance rather than one through their employer. This would lead to greater market-driven choices and cost reductions as insurers would now have to compete for customers.

The next thing we need to do is re-think how insurance operates. Why does insurance need to cover $75 office visits and prescription drugs? For most people these things should be out of pocket, and medical insurance should be designed to help in case of "catastrophic" illness, and would kick in once a certain deductible (as chosen by the consumer) kicked in.

I would get rid of Medicare entirely, and give seniors a larger tax credit to purchase private insurance.

Finally we need to get rid of arbitrary "state line" barriers so that all insurance carriers can be national.

I agree that your proposed reforms to private insurance would be helpful, but I doubt they would go far enough and I certainly wouldn't eliminate Medicare. It would also be necessary to eliminate discrimination based on pre-existing conditions and to mandate that everyone has insurance. Even still, the profit incentive to deny care is so powerful that I really think there has to be a public plan as well.

I still think that paying insurance companies to take in money and then try to keep as much of it as they can is the source of massive administrative waste in our system and no amount of competition will change that.

I'm ambivalent about the model of charging people for routine visits. I see how it makes sense but I also think it will lead people to put off preventative care and make outcomes worse. The problem with economic theory is that people do not make decisions that are perfect or in their best interest long term. Public policy has to adapt to human nature, not the other way around.
 
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Read this article, I think it perfectly sums up my argument:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html

Well, I was asking for real data about what is actually going on in MA, not the same old stories about Canada from the fascist Wall Street Journal. Everything they ever write about healthcare is anti-patient and pro-business (and believe me, they'd be overjoyed to see doctors literally enslaved by insurance companies and hospitals if it would lead to better quarterly returns).
 
I agree that your proposed reforms to private insurance would be helpful, but I doubt they would go far enough and I certainly wouldn't eliminate Medicare. It would also be necessary to eliminate discrimination based on pre-existing conditions and to mandate that everyone has insurance. Even still, the profit incentive to deny care is so powerful that I really think there has to be a public plan as well.

Medicine is going to be expensive and costs are going to increase regardless of what we do. A market-driven approach is ALWAYS better than a government run program. Yes, Medicare and VA cover people with lower per patient costs, but there are tradeoffs in terms of access. Medicare essentially pays nothing, and providers are forced to offload the cost onto private patients.

I still think that paying insurance companies to take in money and then try to keep as much of it as they can is the source of massive administrative waste in our system and no amount of competition will change that.

Yes it will. If insurance was truly market-drive, people would seek out the most efficient, best plans. This would encourage streamlining of their business model to reduce waste in order to bring down premiums and attract customers.

I'm ambivalent about the model of charging people for routine visits. I see how it makes sense but I also think it will lead people to put off preventative care and make outcomes worse. The problem with economic theory is that people do not make decisions that are perfect or in their best interest long term. Public policy has to adapt to human nature, not the other way around.

The biggest problem we have with healthcare is the total separation of patients from the costs and pricing. I would have up-front pricing in every office and ER. Patients can then decide if they really want to spend $300 on a quick ER visit for their sore throat, or $75 in their doctor's office. I woud love it if patients had some say in what tests they wanted. "You want a chest x-ray for your bronchitis? It's probably going to be normal and you'll get a bill for $150. Do you still want it?"

At some point people need to take responsibility for themselves. Your progressive viewpoint is exactly the opposite, in that you feel people can't make decisions and the government or smart people must do it for them.
 
The biggest problem we have with healthcare is the total separation of patients from the costs and pricing. I would have up-front pricing in every office and ER. Patients can then decide if they really want to spend $300 on a quick ER visit for their sore throat, or $75 in their doctor's office. I woud love it if patients had some say in what tests they wanted. "You want a chest x-ray for your bronchitis? It's probably going to be normal and you'll get a bill for $150. Do you still want it?"

At some point people need to take responsibility for themselves. Your progressive viewpoint is exactly the opposite, in that you feel people can't make decisions and the government or smart people must do it for them.

👍👍

And honestly paying for your care, even a little bit does have the effect of making you more invested in your health. It becomes YOUR health and YOUR money, and YOU have to spend MORE money if you don't take care of yourself. Responsibility.

Routine visits aren't what put people into debt and ruin their credit. As General Veers mentions, it's the catastrophic stuff. Accidents, cancer. Take care of those things first.

The problem with economic theory is that people do not make decisions that are perfect or in their best interest long term. Public policy has to adapt to human nature, not the other way around.
Your liberal is showing. Seriously, we don't need a nanny state. I couldn't agree more: people are idiots and make bad decisions. Generally I make a living from those bad decisions, but that's beside the point. You can't have someone else, especially the state deciding what's in your best interest. That's going to lead to less choice for patients, and ultimately less choice for us as physicians as care becomes less critical thinking and more algorithm oriented (under the header of standardized). And I read that as worse care, not better.
 
The biggest problem we have with healthcare is the total separation of patients from the costs and pricing. I would have up-front pricing in every office and ER. Patients can then decide if they really want to spend $300 on a quick ER visit for their sore throat, or $75 in their doctor's office. I woud love it if patients had some say in what tests they wanted. "You want a chest x-ray for your bronchitis? It's probably going to be normal and you'll get a bill for $150. Do you still want it?"

At some point people need to take responsibility for themselves. Your progressive viewpoint is exactly the opposite, in that you feel people can't make decisions and the government or smart people must do it for them.

Upfront pricing could be a powerful reform in medicine.

I'm not saying that decisions should be made for people, but I'm just concerned about the incentives that are set up. People don't make their decisions in a vacuum.
 
Of course he will side with the lawyers. He's a lawyer. Sebelius is a lawyer. The other day on CNBC, one of his functionaries was saying how "everyone knows doctors here make much more than their counterparts in other countries" and how "providers would be called on to sacrifice."

It's curious that he didn't stop to compare the salaries of American ambulance chasers to those overseas.

We're not in Kansas anymore.

Some of us are 😉

I agree with many of generalveer's, stitch's, and old mil's comments (and the others that made similar comments). And yes, a medical student here.
 
...The first thing we need to do is get rid of employer-based insurance. The current system where people get insurance through an employer is not market-driven as employees have little choice in what plan they choose...
A perverse outcome of employer-based insurance is that people change jobs every few years or so. Gone are the days of lasting several decades with one company. There's little reason for insurance carriers to incentivise preventative care when they know most folks will change jobs before a person's obesity gives them HTN and a stroke.

As is, I know that one of the biggest costs holding small buisnesses back is providing health care for employees.

...This would encourage people to find their own insurance rather than one through their employer. This would lead to greater market-driven choices and cost reductions as insurers would now have to compete for customers...
In this age of email and the Internet, there is no reason why insurance shouldn't move with people around the country. Long-term coverage would spread risk as effectively as unversal coverage.

...Why does insurance need to cover $75 office visits and prescription drugs?...The biggest problem we have with healthcare is the total separation of patients from the costs and pricing...
People need to know that the $1M dollar work up is called that for a reason. The doc should be able to figure out what's best for the patient given the what the patient wants and the severity of their illness.

Will this displace some of the cost onto the patient? Sure, but remember that this version of insurance would cost much less - it wouldn't cover costs up to a specific amount - and the doc wouldn't be able to order tons of tests, and you wouldn't be putting that insurance dollar through the inefficiency of the corporation or government plan. The money (and the power) would be in the patient's hand (as it should be).
 
Maybe we should collect everyone's cigarettes, 40's, crack rocks and weapons when they come through the door, then sell them on the black market to make them pay for their visit. You think you have bronchitis...that will be 2 packs cigarrettes for a cxr and z-pac. ..once you mess w/ people's cigs and EtOH, then they start to care ...
 
The biggest problem we have with healthcare is the total separation of patients from the costs and pricing. I would have up-front pricing in every office and ER. Patients can then decide if they really want to spend $300 on a quick ER visit for their sore throat, or $75 in their doctor's office. I woud love it if patients had some say in what tests they wanted. "You want a chest x-ray for your bronchitis? It's probably going to be normal and you'll get a bill for $150. Do you still want it?"

At some point people need to take responsibility for themselves. Your progressive viewpoint is exactly the opposite, in that you feel people can't make decisions and the government or smart people must do it for them.

There is no one more tired than me of seeing Jamal come in off the street for the third time today, because for the most part, these people are *****s. The biggest daily decision for most of these people is whether the underwear they just picked up off the floor is clean or dirty, so a doctor with decades of education will be much better informed than a high school drop out. These people can't be given the choice of what tests they do and don't need. This is just a great way for lazy doctors to "treat 'em and street 'em" when there could be a greater underlying problem.

There has to be a better plan than pure scare tactics to bring the cost of insurance down. I think people tend to forget, that all those fine men and women that get to write up a bill on this and vote on it are receiving universal helthcare, and they don't seem to be running for the hills to get rid of it. Also another point that no one has brought up is that the AMA is a lobbiest group that is looking out for it's best interests and not necessarily what's best for doctors and patients. All I'm saying is that free market systems don't always work as we learned over the past several years, without government intervention, as long as there are greedy people in the world controlling the situation.
 
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The first thing we need to do is get rid of employer-based insurance. <snip> To correct this I would tax employer-based health benefits at regular rates, while simultaneously providing a tax credit for private insurance. <snip>

For most people these things should be out of pocket, and medical insurance should be designed to help in case of "catastrophic" illness, and would kick in once a certain deductible (as chosen by the consumer) kicked in.

I would get rid of Medicare entirely, and give seniors a larger tax credit to purchase private insurance.

Damn it, General, don't go making sense now. You keep this up and I'll have to start agreeing with you more.

Add to this a requirement for coverage, drop Medicaid, VA, all other types of coverage (replaced by tax credits for private insurance), a required set of benefits (at the catastrophic level), inability to deny for pre-existing conditions, iron-clad liability protection for providing EBM care in a NZ-ish malpractice approach and the ability to set up your insurance premiums automatically out of pre-tax dollars and we've got a pretty good plan.

Take care,
Jeff
 
We don't need to change a thing about how people are insured in medicine. Heck, we wouldn't need any social support for medicine in the US is we did 2 things:
1.) Used evidence based medicine to set up standard tests with the qualification that if doc's remained within those standards they could not be sued. Here the whole point would be that some of the people who currently live because they were the 1 in 10,000 that had the head bleed that got caught on a random CT WOULD DIE. But, this is really what keeps the costs down for the socialized systems. It's not the fact that those governments are paying for the healthcare, it's what they don't pay for. Notice that in this case, we didn't eliminate the ability for litigation: People could still sue for legit careless mistakes (like wrong site amputations). Doctors are going to hate this option because it will make them feel like they've lost their ability to do their jobs...but, such is the price of cheap healthcare.
2.) (Not that this will ever happen): Realize that American's are the most narcisistic people in the world and put limits on what we can demand from our healthcare providers. In other words, establish limits to what the government will pay for end of life care. If you can't afford better care out of pocket or through some supplemental insurance, you do without....IE: We don't spend 35k a day in an ICU keeping you a live for just a little longer, you die just like in every other place in the world. Or, if you screw your kidney's over by being a noncompliant diabetic...you don't get dialysis, you just die. It's not inhumane, it's life. Or for a less drastic example, consider that American's complain when they have to share a room with another person and in most other hospitals still use wards and people even share beds (Trust me, it's true.)

<Rant> I think that its funny that we seem to believe that the government ought to have to pay for everyone's healthcare. Meanwhile, the concept of having the government pay for everyone's food seems like a ridiculous idea. So for true comparisons, the reason why our healthcare is so expensive is because we want to eat steaks while every other county gets by with tofu. It's strange that is seems obsurd to demand that the government pay for everyone's food (and last time I checked eating actually IS a need for sustaining life) but the socialized healthcare is all the rage. One thing is certain, the government isn't going to pay for the steak meal plan or the health care plan and people are going to have a rude awakening because this is what they are expecting. So, my point is why pay the money to add a government insurance option when we could jump straight to the part of that option that will fix the problem. On the other hand, if you disagree with options 1&2 above, then you equivocally also disagree with any form of socialized medicine.

And one more thing: Don't even get me started on these crappy statistics about US healthcare ranking 33 out of ~150 countries in (arbitrary) quality/cost. If government intervention were the answer then I don't think that our education system (which is socialized) would be ranked 115(ish)/150. If those numbers don't scare you, then it might be prudent to consider that the mixed private/ public school system is pretty similar to what Obama is proposing. Maybe the problem with healthcare isn't the doctors as the Pres has been suggesting. Maybe it's just that American's in general are just horrible at managing money (which is also evident in our government's track record)</Rant>
 
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