Off topic -- Anyone have Solar installed recently

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owlegrad said:
I just refinanced as well! 3.25% for 30 years. Saving about $160 per month with no out of pocket costs. There was a reduction in PMI in there as well.
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What is your equity? Sounds like less than 20%? That is really good rate if it is less than 20%.
 
owlegrad said:
I just refinanced as well! 3.25% for 30 years. Saving about $160 per month with no out of pocket costs. There was a reduction in PMI in there as well.
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How much is PMI? You should get rid of that!
 
confettiflyer said:
Yep, rewarding me for behavior I was going to pretty much do anyway? God bless America.

My ROI was 8-10 years, but it’s difficult to model because of electric rates, non-linear panel degradation over time, changing time-of-use windows, and possible usage increases over time (like do you have aging parents moving in?)


This is how I modeled it (simplistic):

Total electricity usage 1yr ~10,000 kWh
Average price of electricity: $0.22/kWh
(Range $0.18-$0.36 depending on time of day, we do a really good job of not using anything 1pm-7pm).

Total cost per month: $183.33 ($2200/yr)
Total cost solar panels after tax credit: $16,520 (7.2kW) - two systems purchased 3yrs apart (current Tesla price is $14,430 for 7.6kW)

“Monthly payment”* for panels @ 4% interest x 9 years = $182.40.
*paid cash

So break even is 9 years with no changes.

A 10% increase in my electric cost ($0.22 to $0.242) = break even at year 8

A 10% increase in electric usage AND 10% increase in electric costs = break even point at year 7

My utility (PG&E) is in bankruptcy and has multiple liabilities for causing wildfires, it is highly likely ratepayers will be required to face some additional rate increases in the coming years. Adding a second solar system was a hedge against that (and increased usage, possible EV car in a few years).


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I agree, but I also think the ROI of yours ought to adjust for stable power when the utility browns out the area or does something else incompetent. You win on financials in 9 years guaranteed, but having a stable supply of power is more or less priceless and a real reason to do it anyway. That's another major part of the value proposition in CA as PG&E does brown outs and other stupid things due to their infrastructure being terrible.

What's the price of a good night's sleep with decent air conditioning? Stable power is worth paying for.
 
msweph said:
Good way to look at it.

We just refinanced the house, so maybe we will decide. Juat adds risk if we decide to move or choose to sell for some reason

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Yes, but you typically recoup the cost of the solar system (unlike other house upgrades). I’ve heard of statistics that buyers overbid for solar homes, but I don’t believe it.


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lord999 said:
I agree, but I also think the ROI of yours ought to adjust for stable power when the utility browns out the area or does something else incompetent. You win on financials in 9 years guaranteed, but having a stable supply of power is more or less priceless and a real reason to do it anyway. That's another major part of the value proposition in CA as PG&E does brown outs and other stupid things due to their infrastructure being terrible.

What's the price of a good night's sleep with decent air conditioning? Stable power is worth paying for.
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We were on notice last year for power safety shut offs due to wind and wildfire risk about 3 separate times during fire season. All three times, my particular area was not shut off based on our position on the grid vs transmission lines and the fact that almost all of our local lines are buried.

Because of that, we opted out of buying a battery. Had we been shut off, the discussion would have shifted from battery vs transfer panel and gas generator.

a/c isn’t needed for us overnight about 80% of the time due to our proximity to the coast (90 degree high turns into a 60 degree overnight low most, but not all, summer nights).

Trust me, I want a battery and total grid independence, but I just couldn’t bend the numbers.


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mentos said:
Did you have to upgrade your electrical panel or add a EV car charger?
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I got a 14-50 outlet for my Tesla, but that doesn't affect solar panels at all. The only thing was I got my solar panels before I got my car. It's not worth adding more panels after the fact since it requires another inverter. So I still have to pay a pretty hefty electricity bill once a year.
 
aznkukuboi said:
I got a 14-50 outlet for my Tesla, but that doesn't affect solar panels at all. The only thing was I got my solar panels before I got my car. It's not worth adding more panels after the fact since it requires another inverter. So I still have to pay a pretty hefty electricity bill once a year.
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Dude that really sucks.
 
mentos said:
Which company? How much were your panels and how long until you break even?

Also I've heard home insurance doubles after getting panels - any truth to that?
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I had solar panels installed for my new house in Oklahoma in 2018. Oklahoma is NOT solar friendly, at least for consumers installation. My house is on an electric coop and the solar is tied to that system. The coop required proof of a liability policy for the panels, citing that a lineman could get electrocuted if there was a malfunction. My homeowners’ insurance would not cover this. The company that installed the panels ended up putting our system under their own umbrella policy. To my knowledge, the panels did not affect our actual homeowners cost.
 
Jett24 said:
I had solar panels installed for my new house in Oklahoma in 2018. Oklahoma is NOT solar friendly, at least for consumers installation. My house is on an electric coop and the solar is tied to that system. The coop required proof of a liability policy for the panels, citing that a lineman could get electrocuted if there was a malfunction. My homeowners’ insurance would not cover this. The company that installed the panels ended up putting our system under their own umbrella policy. To my knowledge, the panels did not affect our actual homeowners cost.
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How much was the umbrella policy?
 
msweph said:
Cool. I just rate locked but haven't paid for the appraisal or anything yet Haha

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You have to pay for appraisal for a refinance?
 
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msweph said:
Yes. They said they could maybe waive it but then they weren't able to which pissed me off

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I can beat that. In my case they were able to waive it but I had to pay a $100 document fee for the waiver. What a transparent cash grab. I was still happy with the overall deal though.
 
mentos said:
Is that because it's not sunny enough? There's quite a few homes with panels in my town so I wonder if people are doing it for economical reasons or something else.
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Not sunny enough. And the snow freezes like a sheet on it. Falls as a sheet. Dangerous.
 
msweph said:
That would piss me off as well.

We have lived here for 11 months. I have no idea why they can't waive it. They told me before they ran my credit when discussing fees they could more than likely waive the appraisal and survey fee.

Then as soon as I had rate locked and fees were sent back over they said they couldn't waive it. Totally stupid. The value hasnt changed in 11 months substantially.

$500 for nothing.

Icing on the cake is the appraiser I'm paying $500 ASKED ME FOR A COPY in advance of my previous appraisal to "streamline the process".

Eff that. I'm going to make him do his own work if I'm being forced to pay $500.

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That sucks. We bought less than a year ago and the appraisal was waived. Our house appreciated by about 30k since we purchased it according to Zillow. Not sure if that has to do with it.

Are they supposed to enter the home to do the appraisal? I don't know how they would do it just from the outside.
 
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msweph said:
That would piss me off as well.

We have lived here for 11 months. I have no idea why they can't waive it. They told me before they ran my credit when discussing fees they could more than likely waive the appraisal and survey fee.

Then as soon as I had rate locked and fees were sent back over they said they couldn't waive it. Totally stupid. The value hasnt changed in 11 months substantially.

$500 for nothing.

Icing on the cake is the appraiser I'm paying $500 ASKED ME FOR A COPY in advance of my previous appraisal to "streamline the process".

Eff that. I'm going to make him do his own work if I'm being forced to pay $500.

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Tbf, if they’re going to securitize your loan, the terms usually require a fresh appraisal < 60 days, otherwise the bank will have to portfolio the loan and/or face internal process control reviews. Bugger.

Home equity loans are usually never securitized hence why AVMs are usually okay/appraisals waived at lender’s discretion.


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Interestingly enough there is a finance company that specializes in refinancing your home and bundling in the solar system as well. So you have only have one bill and can get the mortgage tax credit on your PV system. Plus you get the cash rate of the PV system, usually 15-20% cheaper.

I wonder if their rates and fees are competitive. For someone like myself who happens to be looking at buying a system and refinancing maybe it makes sense?
 
owlegrad said:
For someone like myself who happens to be looking at buying a system and refinancing maybe it makes sense?
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In case anyone is follow this epic saga it ended up not working out for me due to PMI - trying to cover a PV system into the loan resulted in PMI blowing any chance of savings out of the water. Still for someone with enough equity to not need to worry about PMI this might have been the right route to go.
 
msweph said:
As a married couple that both bring in >150K and no kids we get pretty killed by taxes.

We do HSA, Max 403B, etc but still looking for ways to minimize taxes.

Solar has come to mind since there is a tax credit, it's good for the environment, it will save us some money (10 year plan) and increase the property value of our home slightly (not dollar for dollar)

Has anyone on here done solar? Thoughts if it's worth it?

I know this is off topic so sorry if this isn't allowed

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So did you end up going solar? I did and am loving it.
 
I recently went solar. I figure if I’m here five years, it will probably break even when you add in a small gain on the sale price of the house. And it’s better for the environment. And it’s just plain cool!

I really enjoy getting a credit every month on my energy bill to put toward water. Overall it’s sort of like buying bonds in your portfolio, but more fun.
 
owlegrad said:
So did you end up going solar? I did and am loving it.
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radio frequency said:
I recently went solar. I figure if I’m here five years, it will probably break even when you add in a small gain on the sale price of the house. And it’s better for the environment. And it’s just plain cool!

I really enjoy getting a credit every month on my energy bill to put toward water. Overall it’s sort of like buying bonds in your portfolio, but more fun.
Click to expand...

Please share details! Cost, monthly savings etc.

My electric bill is $120-180 per month. If they cost around 20k, I feel like it would take over ten years to break even.
 
mentos said:
Please share details! Cost, monthly savings etc.

My electric bill is $120-180 per month. If they cost around 20k, I feel like it would take over ten years to break even.
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My electric bill was usually around $200. Now it’s less than $20. The payments for the system are $125/month (I choose to finance).

There were cheaper systems but I’m an easy mark and I got one with all the bells and whistles. I also went with a company that does energy improvements for the home as part of the package. So I got a new variable speed pool pump and a fancy hybrid hot water heater.

Supposedly my break even point is seven years depending on how much the power company raises the price of electricity each year, but the way I see it I came out ahead after the first month. Who cares if everything cost 33k dollars, I am already saving money each month with zero out of pocket costs. Presumably I would recover some of that cost if I choose to sell the house before 7 years anyway.

Factor in the tax credit and the monthly savings and it truly just seems like a no-brainer and too good to be true.
 
owlegrad said:
My electric bill was usually around $200. Now it’s less than $20. The payments for the system are $125/month (I choose to finance).

There were cheaper systems but I’m an easy mark and I got one with all the bells and whistles. I also went with a company that does energy improvements for the home as part of the package. So I got a new variable speed pool pump and a fancy hybrid hot water heater.

Supposedly my break even point is seven years depending on how much the power company raises the price of electricity each year, but the way I see it I came out ahead after the first month. Who cares if everything cost 33k dollars, I am already saving money each month with zero out of pocket costs. Presumably I would recover some of that cost if I choose to sell the house before 7 years anyway.

Factor in the tax credit and the monthly savings and it truly just seems like a no-brainer and too good to be true.
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Awesome! So even with a loan, the monthly out of pocket cost went from $200 down to $145. Did you go with Tesla? Do you have an electric vehicle too?

Sounds similar to the pay off mortgage early vs min payments + invest the rest debate.
 
mentos said:
Please share details! Cost, monthly savings etc.

My electric bill is $120-180 per month. If they cost around 20k, I feel like it would take over ten years to break even.
Click to expand...
My bill is approximately $100 per month usually (higher in summer and much lower in winter though). I expect I will cover about 116% of my normal electricity bills, which will give me a credit overall. There will be some bills in winter though and also some larger credits in summer due to our local climate.

My system was approximately $22k for 7.48 kW (not taxed; systems aren’t taxed where I live) before credits, and about $15k after credits (local and federal). I paid cash and skipped financing as loans make the break even period longer. Break even is about 10-11 years (could be shorter if there is a lot of inflation), but I am pretty sure 5 years will be sufficient if we decide to sell.

If we had Tesla systems here, those would have been cheaper, but their reviews are mixed. I picked a local outfit with great reviews and they tack on a 25 year manufacturers warranty for all parts for free (this is an extra cost, especially on the inverter). It was pretty easy and quick! This was my best price quote and also the company with the best reviews.
 
mentos said:
Awesome! So even with a loan, the monthly out of pocket cost went from $200 down to $145. Did you go with Tesla? Do you have an electric vehicle too?

Sounds similar to the pay off mortgage early vs min payments + invest the rest debate.
Click to expand...

I didn't go with Tesla for the same reason radio frequency didn't. The online reviews are just SO harsh. Also the company I went with included a 1 year production guarantee and a 25 year warranty. I think the Tesla systems are string inverters instead of micro-inverters as well, although I could be wrong about that. Anyway you can make an argument for either type of system so it just comes down to preference. Don't get lost in the weeds though just focus on the high level pros vs cons.

Cons: It's expensive (but still cheaper than the alternative of not having them so is this really a con?), could take a long time to break even (although I disagree with that thought process for the reasons I outlined above)
Pros: Save money (but expensive up front possibly), increases home value, good for environment (although there is a lot of possible misinformation about the environmental effects so whatever, this wasn't a big factor in my decision making), insulate from energy price increases in the future

Something that stood out for me is the idea of "paying yourself instead of the power company". You will always have a power bill and it will ALWAYS be increasing in price unless you can produce your own energy. With a solar system you can do just that.

If I were doing it over I would probably go with Tesla just for the crazy difference in price (Tesla is substantially cheaper). Having said that I do not regret my choice at all.

So my original plan was to get a Tesla Model 3 but I just couldn't pull the trigger. I ended up buying a Prius Prime instead. It is still a plug in electric vehicle but it only gets like 35 mile range before it switches over to regular hybrid. But it does qualify for the 7,500 EV credit where the Model 3 doesn't. The base price is also cheaper. The warranty is also way better. In my heart I wanted the 3 but financially I just couldn't rationalize it. Maybe one day.
 
owlegrad said:
I didn't go with Tesla for the same reason radio frequency didn't. The online reviews are just SO harsh. Also the company I went with included a 1 year production guarantee and a 25 year warranty. I think the Tesla systems are string inverters instead of micro-inverters as well, although I could be wrong about that. Anyway you can make an argument for either type of system so it just comes down to preference. Don't get lost in the weeds though just focus on the high level pros vs cons.

Cons: It's expensive (but still cheaper than the alternative of not having them so is this really a con?), could take a long time to break even (although I disagree with that thought process for the reasons I outlined above)
Pros: Save money (but expensive up front possibly), increases home value, good for environment (although there is a lot of possible misinformation about the environmental effects so whatever, this wasn't a big factor in my decision making), insulate from energy price increases in the future

Something that stood out for me is the idea of "paying yourself instead of the power company". You will always have a power bill and it will ALWAYS be increasing in price unless you can produce your own energy. With a solar system you can do just that.

If I were doing it over I would probably go with Tesla just for the crazy difference in price (Tesla is substantially cheaper). Having said that I do not regret my choice at all.

So my original plan was to get a Tesla Model 3 but I just couldn't pull the trigger. I ended up buying a Prius Prime instead. It is still a plug in electric vehicle but it only gets like 35 mile range before it switches over to regular hybrid. But it does qualify for the 7,500 EV credit where the Model 3 doesn't. The base price is also cheaper. The warranty is also way better. In my heart I wanted the 3 but financially I just couldn't rationalize it. Maybe one day.
Click to expand...

My ideal car right now is the RAV4 Prime which is basically the RAV4 version of the Prius Prime, if it ever comes out. 42 miles on electricity and it's as fast as a Supra! The RAV4 is the best SUV so best of both worlds.
 
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