offensive and inconsiderate posts!!

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by CapitalistMD, Mar 7, 2001.

  1. CapitalistMD

    CapitalistMD New Member

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    Attention all posters with multiple acceptances to top 15 schools: you may be interested to know that under no circumstances should you post any messages pertaining to your decision about where to matriculate.
    As someone with significant experience working in the field of health care, I feel it is my sacred duty to educate those who wish to enter this hallowed profession as to the proper demeanor which one should exhibit. As protectors of the health and well-being of humanity, we should be sympathetic and considerate at all times. Even when making the most selfish decisions (such as where YOU will attend medical school) one should be selfless. Only when one is willing to guard one's feelings and ideas to protect the fragile egos by which one is surrounded will one truly be prepared for genuine interaction with patients.
    I may be getting way off base here, but we need to keep in mind that the majority of medical school applicants are NOT aware that the application process is competitive. Further, said applicants are encouraged to air their disappointments so that those of us who also dream of one day being called by that most distinguished name: Dr., can offer forth the "seeds" of wisdom and wealth of knowledge inherent in the title.
    However, applicants who advertise their good fortune on this site show a grave lack of understanding of the nature of medicine, as well as this truth of human nature: people don't like to hear about the good fortune and accomplishments of others. It offends them.
    If one cannot determine which top-tier school to attend based on the biased, limited experiences offered by short interview visits, one is probably so self-absorbed that they have forgotten that great problems exist in the world, such as poverty, hunger, unemployment, and the sobering fact that the patients said applicant will someday see sometimes face death!!
    If you recognize yourself in this post, its' OK: there's still time to save the profession if you heed this advice and begin the metamorphosis from a selfish, privileged rich kid (can we say "legacy") to an altruistic physician! Enroll yourself in sensitivity training, take to heart the pearls of wisdom offered by some of the sages who post on SDN, educate yourself on hardship (since said applicant has obviously never experienced any hardship, given their flippant approach to such a laughable non-dilemma), and abandon the SDN forum as a source of information.
    Flip a coin to make this most trivial of decisions, and sequester yourself in a room until you can begin every sentence with the phrase "I am blessed."
    I hope this has been instructive. You may now exit the forum and let fate decide your future. Heads for Harvard, tails for Hopkins!
     
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  3. mj

    mj Senior Member

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    that was funny [​IMG] -- mj
     
  4. SocialistMD

    SocialistMD Resident Objectivist

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    Well, where to begin?
    I guess that since I feel this is more of a personal attack than a post of any real merit, I will start by stating that if you have a problem with me, e-mail me personally and we can discuss it.
    Now, onto your post, line by line if I may be so privileged.
    First, never did I say that people should not celebrate, nor did I condemn the act. When I was accepted to medical school, I was happy. I can relate. It is human. My original problem, and the reason I began this crusade on SDN, is because of a particular post about a tough decision. To me, being in a position such as was defined cannot be defined as tough, but lucky. This is how I felt when in the same position. It unnerved me because the manner in which it was presented made it sound like the choice was on the same level as one who was not accepted to medical school at all. Maybe I am alone in this interpretation, but it is what I inferred. Since then, I have bitten my tongue every time such a topic has been posted. However, when KidA was condemned for expressing his opinion repeatedly. I have already stated that the posts of the nature to which KidA responded may sound just as repetitive to him. I came to his defense.
    My last few posts have not been to try to change anyone, only to make them aware that if their goals are money, power or the thrill of victory, they will be unhappy. I am not trying to tell anyone to get out of medicine, I am merely trying to tell them that to obtain the most satisfaction then they are focused on the wrong goal. This leads me to your next point, selflessness.
    Never did I imply that one has to be selfless. Truth be told, I am probably the most selfish person in the world. I left my fiancee over 1000 miles away so I could go to the medical school that I wanted. However, my goal is to help people. It is selfish because what makes me happy is to make other people better (this can also be seen in the fact that I am trying to convince people to change their focus so at to enjoy it more). Be selfish. However, with this selfishness comes some responsibility. Those of us who have been accepted to medical school have succeeded in this mini-goal of our lives. We should be more considerate of those who have not because they have not succeeded. Announcing you were accepted to medical school is one thing. Talking about the "tough" choices that lay ahead for you in trying to balance your current school load with the added pressure of having to decide between which medical school to go is not.
    As far as the advice from others on personal decisions, I still stand that the decision can only be made by the person whose decision it is. A person who is trying to decide which schools to apply can benefit from data such like that which currently exists in the topic "Venting: UC Schools' Interview Decisions (the post from red fox in particular)." I still do not feel personal stories can help anyone. For example, one person at Baylor was murdered off campus this year. Does this mean everyone will have that same experience? How about a few? And, for clarification, just because you can not make a decision based on your short visit does not mean you are self-absorbed. They are independent of each other.
    Next, never did I associate being a "pre-med machine" with being a selfish, privileged rich kid, nor did I say they had never had their share of hardships. I merely said that there is more to life than just winning and being the best. It is better to learn this earlier than later. I know of several MD's who became unhappy with medicine because they had achieved everything they set out to do after obtaining their MD, so they quit medicine. Why (a) waste your time and (b) waste the time of those who really want to practice medicine but are not as statistically sound on paper?
    In short, I am just trying to open people's eyes to the fact that they may be in this for the wrong reasons and sooner or later it will come back to haunt them. I do not profess to being a sage, but I am trying to educate. That is the point of this forum, isn't it, to educate those who want to listen?

    And, if this is a joke, then I guess it is on me.


    [This message has been edited by SocialistMD (edited 03-07-2001).]
     
  5. WingZero

    WingZero Senior Member

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    Actually, I thought the point of this forum was for people to air their insecurities and for others to feel important by providing advice as if they were a legitimate authority on the matter [​IMG]
     
  6. SocialistMD

    SocialistMD Resident Objectivist

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    Ah, but that is the beauty of an internet forum. Who knows who is a pre-med, a med student or an MD already?
     
  7. serendipity

    serendipity Junior Member

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    While I have found this site to be extremely useful and informative, I recently have thought about the change in the tone of the postings as we all have been getting acceptance and/or rejections. Hearing about others acceptance is wonderful and I am very happy for you. However, I agree with SocialistMD in his commentary on how postings about decisions about where to matriculate reflect an underlying lack of respect and dignity, qualities which are essential to being a physician.

    As someone who has been quite unfortunate during this entire process, it has been hard to read some of the postings. I do acknowledge that it is my choice to read these postings. I am merely commenting on how these have affected me and how disturbed and frustrated I have become. I am not frustrated by my own situation -- I actually have an odd sense of peace about the whole thing and know that things happen for a reason and I can always apply again. I WILL be a great doctor one day, it's just a matter of time. What frustrates me is that I wonder if those making these postings really understand what an incredible privilege it is to be a doctor and be so intimately connected to the lives of others. Sympathy, humanity, and respect are essential to the doctor-patient relationship and I hope that as you all ponder whether to go to School X, Y, or Z that you remember that you are very fortunate -- medical school is a privilege. I'm not saying that you don't feel that way... just remember this as you make your decisions and as you post your comments on this site. Also, be sensitive to the hardships of those around you... you will certainly have patients who have faced incredible hardships and you will need to be compassionate and empathic.

    I am certainly not writing this out of bitterness and anger because I am neither bitter nor angry. Just hope that you are realize that serving humanity is a PRIVILEGE.
     
  8. SocialistMD

    SocialistMD Resident Objectivist

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    Mainly because this individual named him/herself CapitalistMD. Seems odd that it would be in direct contrast with SocialistMD and be the first post if it were not in some way directed at me. Maybe it is directed at all who feel as I do and being that I am one of the most vocal (or that my screen name is one of the easiest to counter), the name CapitalistMD was chosen. However, most of the misrepresentations presented were grossly distorted views of what I have been saying, so it seems to me that it has a slight point toward me.

    I also do not really think CapitalistMD was serious about most medical school applicants being unaware that it was competitive. Just a cynical statement to prove a point.
     
  9. SocialistMD

    SocialistMD Resident Objectivist

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    The entire post is cynical. That is why I feel it is directed towards me. Maybe I am wrong.
     
  10. Cobragirl

    Cobragirl Hoohaa helper ;)

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    I agree that most applicants realize how competitive the application process it...but I also think many of them ARE naive! In a post I wrote a while back, I noted that most of the schools here in Florida prefer Florida residents (by FAR) and that one in particular won't even CONSIDER out-of-staters...yet this same school gets almost 500 applications a year from out-of-state applicants. If it was just 40-50, I'd say that maybe some applicants were 'riding the fence' with their residency (maybe they live elsewhere, but their parents live here, or something along those lines)...but the numbers are too high.
    In addition, we've all seen posts from people with low to average scores/gpa's applying to the nation's top-10's. Now granted there IS a chance of getting in, I suppose, but the reality is that if you apply to a school that gets 7000-8000+ applications a year from the very best students the nation has to offer, you better have some REALLY GOOD "other" stuff on your app. I feel that my application was pretty darn strong (my MCAT was average, however) so I was smart enough to stick to schools that I KNEW I had a shot at (state schools, schools with lower #'s of applications, and school's where my GPA might help out my MCAT). I think many of the applicants just pick schools based on "reputation" (Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc) with no regard to their "competiveness" at these schools. I'm fairly certain that, had I applied to these sort of schools, I would have received rejections MONTHS ago!

    I am not disagreeing with the original post but at the same time, I think MANY applicants should get REAL about their chances at the schools they have chosen. I'm not talking about people that choose carefully, and I'm not talking about people with legitimately "competetive" applications for those top-10 schools. I'm talking about the 1000's out there that have applied to such schools with mid-20 MCATS, low to mid gpa's, and little volunteering / extracurriculars. It's hard to feel sorry for people when they haven't done their homework. I'm not trying to be ugly...and I'd certainly like to see EVERYONE acheive their goal...but sometimes you HAVE to be realistic in your expectations! I am tickled to death that I got into my "state" school and have no doubts that I will receive a great education. I do not feel like less of a person because I'm not at Harvard...and I never will. I was realistic about my schools and I got accepted (and for those of you that "know" me, you should know that's NOT bragging, but total GRATITUDE toward's the ADCOM that admitted me!)

    To make my long story longer....no, I don't like the posts asking whether [the poster] they should go to Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Cornell, UCLA (where ever!) but at the same time, I DO like seeing posts from accepted applicants. For me, it kept me going and gave me hope, as many of those people had things in common with myself. Many of the posters on this forum have been around a while and we "know" each others stories pretty well...it's kinda like having best-friends in your old home town. You don't get to see them very often, but you still like to know how they're doing! [​IMG]
     
  11. CapitalistMD

    CapitalistMD New Member

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  12. wooo

    wooo Senior Member

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    I was accepted to all 100 plus med schools in the U.S. I am holding the acceptances until the last day so that I may feel superior for as long as possible.

    Any suggestions on which school I should attend?
     
  13. Jova

    Jova Member

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    Cobragirl,

    First, I must say CONGRATS on your recent acceptance.

    I disagree with your last post, "In addition, we've all seen posts from people with low to average scores/gpa's applying to the nation's
    top-10's. Now granted there IS a chance of getting in, I suppose, but the reality is that if you apply to a
    school that gets 7000-8000+ applications a year from the very best students the nation has to offer, you
    better have some REALLY GOOD "other" stuff on your app. "


    I think that if you believe in yourself, you can achieve anything you want. People should not be discouraged from applying to a "top 10" school if they have below/average scores. The "top 10" schools are not looking for ONLY geniuses, they are looking for good, interesting people. I personally have below/average scores and have interviewed at 3 "top 10" schools and so far have been accepted to one.

    Bottom line: If you don't have the most competitive scores, DO prepare youself for rejection; BUT, also, DO BELIEVE in yourself and give it a shot if you want--it's possible!!.

    Jova
     
  14. Cobragirl

    Cobragirl Hoohaa helper ;)

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    Jova, thanks for the congrats!

    As for the post, you'll notice I did say
    1. there is a CHANCE they'll get in
    2. they should have "Other" interesting stuff on their app (to overshadow the mediocre scores)
    3. people should be "realistic" about where they apply (i.e.-don't be surprised if that top-10 school rejects them)...I didn't ever say they couldn't get in.


    Let's face it, someone with low scores, little or no extracurriculars and no "unusual" hobbies / experiences is going to get axed in the first round at ANY school...let alone the top-10's.
     

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