Official 2012 Step 1 Experiences and Scores Thread

[amavir281]

I saw that there was a similar thread for 2011 that had plenty of useful info so I figured its best to start one for 2012.

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[medicaldonkey]

Am I understanding this correct? You ran through 8+ passes on some UW sections?

I ask because so many have advised against doing UW more than once or twice.

Yes. Did renal probably upwards of 10x. Cardiology probably 8x. Immunology 10x. I could make up fluffy reasons why it enhances learning, but the bottom line is I can remember a lot of those questions, the components of the questions, and why the wrong answers are wrong. Everyone is different, but it's been over a month since I studied for step 1 and I can list you off plenty of facts and the questions that I learned them from. I did obviously come to a lot of questions that I knew the answer from recognizing the question, but I didn't click it until I rationalized why it was right. I did immunology 10x because I missed 1 or 2 questions every time and I forced myself into 100%. I also did chunks of 10 q's at a time and repeated those chunks later in the day until they were 100%.

As for those who say stay away from doing it more than 2x, I would tell you that in 3rd year you're going to hear this demand/question a lot: "Show me the data/What is your evidence for that?" I don't have anything but my own experience to go on, and that's it.

 

[medicaldonkey]

Did you do all three QBanks in your final 6 weeks?

UWorld: Select sections average 8x or so.

Kaplan: Did probably 15-50%. Not really sure on that one. Was a waste of time.

USMLERx: Maybe about 500-1000 questions. Excellent balance of detail and thought. Not quite up to the Uworld standard though.

 

[medicaldonkey]

Could you elaborate on that, please?

Take a practice test on weekend.

Week: Hit the 3 weakest sections.

Take a practice test.

Week: Hit the 3 weakest sections.

Rinse and repeat. You'll quickly know if you are doing effective studying because your weakest sections are likely to stay that way if you aren't doing what you need to during the week.

 

[Phloston]

I took it on Thursday and since this site/thread has helped me out, I'm gonna write this up hoping it helps someone else. I'm gonna comment on the test itself and after I get my score, I'll update with study plan so there is some context to the study plan.

The test itself wasn't bad. Not easy, but not horrible. Like has been said before, the easy questions were EASY like very classic presentations, diseases, etc. The medium questions were pretty doable in general just more thinking involved (like 2nd-3rd order) but still able to think through. Now the hard ones were completely out of left field. Like things I would not have known if I had remembered every single thing that I had read/heard in first and second year. I just pray that those were the experimental questions (is that even a real thing? I hope so). I'd say the easy ones were 60-70%, 20-30% were medium, and 0-10% were hard.


Behavioral: Fairly easy. Some things that you had to narrow down to two and kinda pick one but maybe that was just me. One REALLY annoying question on abortions which did NOT have a correct answer. You basically had to take a stand on the issue. Ridiculous.

Biochem: Straightforward. A few of the wtf questions were biochem. Idk even what they were to tell you really.

Embryo: I thought I knew embryo well enough but they threw some really weird and specific questions at me. Some of the hard questions were here.

Pharm: This was a weakness of mine but I think it wasn't that bad. There were some things where they wanted to know how to treat a disease but the first classic answer wasn't there, so you had to know the second-best, which was interesting.

Path: Not bad. Some pics threw me off but mostly you totally could get the answer from the vignette alone. Straightforward for the most part.

Micro: Overall not too bad. There were def some random bugs that I had NEVER heard of, but by process of elimination or other reasoning/knowledge you could usually figure it out or at least narrow down the answer. This is regular for micro but knowing bug = disease wasn't enough. Know specifics about bugs/characteristics/etc.

Neuro: Decent. Most neuro questions had pictures: arteriograms, MRIs, spinal cord sections, etc.

Physio: a lot of goddamn arrows. SO many arrows.

Anatomy: I had some really specific ones here. Super annoying. But some really easy ones too tho.

Random: the test had some REALLY sweet pictures! haha They had these 3-D-like arteriograms in the brain. They were so real-looking!! lol, it was just something that I wasn't expecting and I was totally impressed. They weren't always in the position you're used to looking at them though so know that well. I too looked at the neuroanatomy the day before and I would def recommend it, but more on studying in 3ish weeks!

Overall, not too bad. I prolly marked about 10-12 questions per section but that to me means that I just had to think about them a bit more than a 1st-2nd order question and usually got it down to 2-3 answer choices. But on the other side, I didn't mark the wtf questions bc if I had no idea, I just guessed and moved on.

Hope that helps!

Thanks a lot for posting that. What would you have done differently with your study process looking back on it? Anything?

Took it on Thursday. Honestly it seemed easy. I'll post my experience when I get my score back. I'm guessing anywhere from 225-245.

Congrats on getting over the finish line. We're all looking forward to your thorough analysis after you have time to digest.

 

[LadyLightning20]

Which practice tests did you take and which ones did you feel were most representative of your exam? Thanks and good luck

Whoops, added those into the initial post.

I took NBME 6 and got a 214 before starting my dedicated period.
I took NBME 7 2 weeks in and got a 238.

I didn't take any more because I'm a huge pessimist and I figured 1) those two made me confident that I didn't need to push my test back and that I wouldn't fail, 2) if I did worse or plateaued I would freak out and 3) if I got an awesome score I would dismiss it and start justifying why it was just an easier test and the score didn't mean anything (yes, I am a crazy person) and 4) I'm poor, lol. So I really have no idea where I was scoring by the end, though I knew (or thought, lol) I was getting better because my QBank scores were consistently improving throughout.

I would agree with the general SDN population when they say that the NBME questions were most representative of the exam as a whole. They had fewer mental steps than UW questions and the answer choices were less similar so it was more obvious what the correct one was.

 

[FML]

Thanks a lot for posting that. What would you have done differently with your study process looking back on it? Anything?

I'm not sure there was anything I would have done differently. I certainly don't claim to have memorized every word of FA (lord knows I tried lol), but the hard questions were on things most certainly NOT in FA. For those wanting 250+, this matters, but for the rest, I think you'd be fine with FA/UWorld. I'm not really sure where to go/study to be able to answer those kind of questions really. I think you just have to be prepared that those kinda of questions WILL BE on your exam. Besides that, I'd say do as many questions as you can get your hands on. And then some.

 

[metallica81788]

I just found out that one of my favorite study spots at school will be very limited in space this summer (resident computer training has taken it over). There is also tons of construction by our library.

Do y'all have any general suggestions for good places for dedicated study time where there is internet? I like to be in a semi-isolated, not-to-loud place with good light (at home is NOT an option).

Just trying to get some opinions on places I hadn't considered yet.

 

[VisionaryTics]

I'm not sure there was anything I would have done differently. I certainly don't claim to have memorized every word of FA (lord knows I tried lol), but the hard questions were on things most certainly NOT in FA. For those wanting 250+, this matters, but for the rest, I think you'd be fine with FA/UWorld. I'm not really sure where to go/study to be able to answer those kind of questions really. I think you just have to be prepared that those kinda of questions WILL BE on your exam. Besides that, I'd say do as many questions as you can get your hands on. And then some.

I never get this. SDN has plenty of 250/260+ people that say UW/FA is gold and that if they had to restudy, they would focus more on those sources. Then there are these comments. What the hell are these mysterious questions that are not found in any review books that are essential to cracking a 250?

Is it just really nit-picky one-step facts (what antibody is found in this immune disease first described in April of 2012)? Or are the harder questions ones that require a good deal of inference and reasoning?

 

[Star Fox]

I never get this. SDN has plenty of 250/260+ people that say UW/FA is gold and that if they had to restudy, they would focus more on those sources. Then there are these comments. What the hell are these mysterious questions that are not found in any review books that are essential to cracking a 250?

Is it just really nit-picky one-step facts (what antibody is found in this immune disease first described in April of 2012)? Or are the harder questions ones that require a good deal of inference and reasoning?

SDN has a lot of good content, but as with all advice on the internet one should use discretion when sorting through the garbage to get to the gold. What those 250/260+ people are saying does not make sense. Focus "more" on FA? When they got 250/260+? That means they had other resources which helped them get that score, and they didn't solely focus on FA. I would go with the resources they actually used to get 250/260+ rather than what they "would have used" to get a hypothetical score.

 

[MrBigglesworth]

I just found out that one of my favorite study spots at school will be very limited in space this summer (resident computer training has taken it over). There is also tons of construction by our library.

Do y'all have any general suggestions for good places for dedicated study time where there is internet? I like to be in a semi-isolated, not-to-loud place with good light (at home is NOT an option).

Just trying to get some opinions on places I hadn't considered yet.

The public library?

 

[deleted103644]

I never get this. SDN has plenty of 250/260+ people that say UW/FA is gold and that if they had to restudy, they would focus more on those sources. Then there are these comments. What the hell are these mysterious questions that are not found in any review books that are essential to cracking a 250?

Is it just really nit-picky one-step facts (what antibody is found in this immune disease first described in April of 2012)? Or are the harder questions ones that require a good deal of inference and reasoning?

If you can actually memorize and truly understand every point in First Aid and USMLEWorld, you should get 250+.

Just reading through First Aid is not enough to understand the material in First Aid though. Either you supplement with material from class or you add a few extra review books.

First Aid + USMLEWorld + Goljan RR + best reviewed book in each subject would be the best bet.

 

[RedSoxSuck]

I just found out that one of my favorite study spots at school will be very limited in space this summer (resident computer training has taken it over). There is also tons of construction by our library.

Do y'all have any general suggestions for good places for dedicated study time where there is internet? I like to be in a semi-isolated, not-to-loud place with good light (at home is NOT an option).

Just trying to get some opinions on places I hadn't considered yet.

Library works the best for me. Perhaps try a different library? I am sure there are few nearby. Try to avoid CITY libraries because they have high schoolers and jr. high kids etc.

 

[iCY]

I never get this. SDN has plenty of 250/260+ people that say UW/FA is gold and that if they had to restudy, they would focus more on those sources. Then there are these comments. What the hell are these mysterious questions that are not found in any review books that are essential to cracking a 250?

Is it just really nit-picky one-step facts (what antibody is found in this immune disease first described in April of 2012)? Or are the harder questions ones that require a good deal of inference and reasoning?

don't trust everything you read on the internet, there are people out to troll you & give you wrong information.

Besides, whats the chances that someone who claims to not have first aid memorized is correct when he says the questions he got wrong were not in FA? Chances are they were & he just didn't remember it or understand the fact.

 

[deleted103644]

don't trust everything you read on the internet, there are people out to troll you & give you wrong information.

Besides, whats the chances that someone who claims to not have first aid memorized is correct when he says the questions he got wrong were not in FA? Chances are they were & he just didn't remember it or understand the fact.

Everything you need to know is probably in First Aid, but it might be one item on a list without any further explanation.

With a month to study, you can get everything in First Aid + Goljan + USMLEWorld along with a few additional resources.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Everything you need to know is probably in First Aid, but it might be one item on a list without any further explanation.

With a month to study, you can get everything in First Aid + Goljan + USMLEWorld along with a few additional resources.

I know that First Aid is a mediocre resource of if you don't have a background knowledge of the concepts it is reviewing. But I think UW/FA touches on nearly everything, even if superficially or obliquely.

When people say that there was stuff on their test that was nowhere in FA or UW, I have to wonder what these questions are. Mating rituals of Neolithic tribes?

Btw, I'm not trying to argue that FA+UW should be enough for a 275.

 

[holyhekshler]

I've benefited from this thread, so I'll give back my 2 cents.

Prep: about 4.5 weeks (boo - I would have loved a little more.)

Gunner Training: (fairly seriously seriously, from end of December through end of March.)
FA - a few times through. I didn't go through this with classes, but I wish I had.
UW - finished it, average 76%, started around 60 to 65 to about 80 by the end. I did this all during my dedicated study period.
NBME 6, before starting: 214
NBmE 7. ~ 2 weeks in - 238.
Goljan - kinda/sorta read through most of the systems during class. Read through all the systems once during dedicated prep. I also flipped through once the night before to look at all the path pictures. I did not use the Goljan lectures, I am not a good auditory learner.
BRS physiology - to clarify stuff, not a primary resource.
Robbins - again, to clarify. (rarely)
Random rads pictures online.



I took it today. I didn't think it was that bad. There were a few questions that came totally out of left field (which is somewhat to be expected) but most of the things that I didn't know, I was kicking myself because it was a familiar topic that I just hadn't studied in depth enough (or I'd forgotten a basic fact.) My brain is definitely fried but I'll try to break it down as much as I remember.

As a general prep note: I didn't start using GT until LATE. (there's a 1500ish post thread on that so check it out if you're interested.) I definitely do better repeating things quickly a bunch of times, as opposed to going through really slowly once, so this was golden for me, even for the short time that I used it. It provided more detail and therefore more context to a lot of subjects. I know FA is the classic resource (and I obviously used it) but having the extra information about mechanism and stuff that GT provided made it a lot easier for me to understand things.

Biochem - more than I thought. I was definitely glad I hammered in a bunch of random crap at the last minute.

Anatomy - I knew this was weak going in and, well, I obviously should have studied it more. Looking at CT's/CXR's online the night before was definitely helpful.

Path - this is definitely my strong point - the only reason my UW average ended up on the higher end is because my path scores were dragging the rest up. I felt like this was really fair, not a ton of curveballs. There were a couple you had to work through but it was very doable. Also, looking at pictures the night before was DEFINITELY a good idea.

Pharm - FA was really good but not quite enough in depth. There were a couple (and I really mean, very few) that were not in FA or UW but I felt pretty prepared for this. On a couple of questions, GT went just that extra step in depth enough to help you answer the question.

Embryo - fair, not that many questions and all of them were answerable from FA.

Micro - a couple of weird questions, but mostly straightforward. GT is definitely strong here too - it has quite a bit of extra detail that really helped me to contextualize things, and the repetition is key to hammering in a subject like this.

Physio - lots of arrows. A couple that threw me off, but definitely easier than UW. KNOW your feedback loops, but also be prepared to reason past those.

I'm probably missing stuff here but that's about all I remember. I'll post a score range when I get it.

Overall:

I feel OK about it. I had a few good blocks at the beginning that I just flew through (also scored on several questions that came directly from my "random **** to cram at the last minute" list, which made me feel awesome.) Then I hit a couple of blocks in the middle where I marked about half the questions, and that was totally demoralizing. So now I'm not really sure how I did.

I do wish I'd had more time to study (i was also pretty inefficient during the beginning of my study period, since I pretty much spent it panicking.) A couple more days would have been great, but this is how my school works. If I had taken a couple more days, actually it would have been with the "random crap" list. As I said above, the vast majority of the questions that I missed, I could tell you on what PAGE of FA to look. So I think going through that would definitely have boosted my score.

Fun tip: chocolate covered espresso beans. Trader Joe's. Totally awesome.

Hey - do you mind sharing what was on your random ish to cram last minute list? My test is a week form today and my list of stuff to go over is a MILE long, basically everything...haha..haven't finished my 2nd pass yet or my qbank, F***!! wondering what might be most high yeild. Thanks! Question open to everybody

 

[RedSoxSuck]

Hey - do you mind sharing what was on your random ish to cram last minute list? My test is a week form today and my list of stuff to go over is a MILE long, basically everything...haha..haven't finished my 2nd pass yet or my qbank, F***!! wondering what might be most high yeild. Thanks! Question open to everybody

Why not just go through entire FA in 5 days. Start by reviewing your weak areas first, then the 2nd weakest area etc. Finish it by day 5 and then on the 6th day try to look over your weak area's once again. I mean there isnt anything else that you can really do besides reviewing FA. It is possible to review it in 5 days.

 

[loveoforganic]

I just found out that one of my favorite study spots at school will be very limited in space this summer (resident computer training has taken it over). There is also tons of construction by our library.

Do y'all have any general suggestions for good places for dedicated study time where there is internet? I like to be in a semi-isolated, not-to-loud place with good light (at home is NOT an option).

Just trying to get some opinions on places I hadn't considered yet.

Loyola lib is open til 2 on weekdays (internet with ethernet cord, coffee shop at adjacent building open til 10ish), Tulane has a study area that's 24/7 in a building with a WOW open til real late most days. Dunno how to describe where the Tulane spot is, but wouldn't mind showing you at some point if you want

 

[FML]

I never get this. SDN has plenty of 250/260+ people that say UW/FA is gold and that if they had to restudy, they would focus more on those sources. Then there are these comments. What the hell are these mysterious questions that are not found in any review books that are essential to cracking a 250?

Is it just really nit-picky one-step facts (what antibody is found in this immune disease first described in April of 2012)? Or are the harder questions ones that require a good deal of inference and reasoning?

They were obscure things about sometimes well-known diseases and sometimes not that I certainly didn't find in FA. Perhaps if one remembered random minuscule details about things when one first learned them for first/second year, one could maybe answer these questions. Or perhaps if that particular subject (GI, cardio, etc.) that that one question was on was one's forte, one could get it, but I'm not really sure how else.

Again, these were 0-10% of all the questions, so I'm sure you could still score a 250+ without knowing them. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can read the posts of people saying "holy **** there were such random/really specific questions on my exam" and then doing really well. The only reason I wrote that up was so people could just be prepared for them and not get phased by a question or two that was out of left field.

I'm not trolling. I hadn't memorized all of FA. I was just posting here in the hope of helping others.

 

[holyhekshler]

Why not just go through entire FA in 5 days. Start by reviewing your weak areas first, then the 2nd weakest area etc. Finish it by day 5 and then on the 6th day try to look over your weak area's once again. I mean there isnt anything else that you can really do besides reviewing FA. It is possible to review it in 5 days.

I could do this but I don't think I could do this +1000 qbank q's. ( although half of these I did go over once throughout the course of this year) + I wanted to look over the DIT study guide + read all the qbank answers + do goljan high yield. This would be my ideal world scenario. Ahh, I really need another week but that is impossible cause I have to start school again 2 days after my exam... out of all this stuff do you still think that just reading FA again is the most high yield? I'm sorry to make this all about me...I'm kinda freaking out. Ok, really freaking out.

 

[djquickfingers]

I could do this but I don't think I could do this +1000 qbank q's. ( although half of these I did go over once throughout the course of this year) + I wanted to look over the DIT study guide + read all the qbank answers + do goljan high yield. This would be my ideal world scenario. Ahh, I really need another week but that is impossible cause I have to start school again 2 days after my exam... out of all this stuff do you still think that just reading FA again is the most high yield? I'm sorry to make this all about me...I'm kinda freaking out. Ok, really freaking out.

seriously...a good solid read thru FA plus writing down things you're weak in or don't know, and a review will go a long way. Especially right before the test.

 

[RedSoxSuck]

I could do this but I don't think I could do this +1000 qbank q's. ( although half of these I did go over once throughout the course of this year) + I wanted to look over the DIT study guide + read all the qbank answers + do goljan high yield. This would be my ideal world scenario. Ahh, I really need another week but that is impossible cause I have to start school again 2 days after my exam... out of all this stuff do you still think that just reading FA again is the most high yield? I'm sorry to make this all about me...I'm kinda freaking out. Ok, really freaking out.

I wouldnt do questions during the last week. May be only on my weak areas. Other than that most of time should be spent reviewing.

 

[RedSoxSuck]

seriously...a good solid read thru FA plus writing down things you're weak in or don't know, and a review will go a long way. Especially right before the test.

I 2nd that. Quick notes with may be page numbers to review at the last minute etc.

 

[holyhekshler]

Alright thanks guys really appreciate the advice

 

[Phloston]

SDN has a lot of good content, but as with all advice on the internet one should use discretion when sorting through the garbage to get to the gold. What those 250/260+ people are saying does not make sense. Focus "more" on FA? When they got 250/260+? That means they had other resources which helped them get that score, and they didn't solely focus on FA. I would go with the resources they actually used to get 250/260+ rather than what they "would have used" to get a hypothetical score.

I agree. People talk. FA + UWorld are likely sufficient if the adequate background/adjunct knowledge is already in place. There are definitely key side-resources that are clutch for tackling this exam.

They were obscure things about sometimes well-known diseases and sometimes not that I certainly didn't find in FA. Perhaps if one remembered random minuscule details about things when one first learned them for first/second year, one could maybe answer these questions. Or perhaps if that particular subject (GI, cardio, etc.) that that one question was on was one's forte, one could get it, but I'm not really sure how else.

Again, these were 0-10% of all the questions, so I'm sure you could still score a 250+ without knowing them. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can read the posts of people saying "holy **** there were such random/really specific questions on my exam" and then doing really well. The only reason I wrote that up was so people could just be prepared for them and not get phased by a question or two that was out of left field.

I'm not trolling. I hadn't memorized all of FA. I was just posting here in the hope of helping others.

That's reassuring, however if there's one absolute fact I think any of us would benefit from knowing, it would be the approximate # of questions per block one could hypothetically get wrong to still get 250+ or 260+ range (e.g. marking 7 questions per block and still knowing a 260+ is possible).

It's difficult to track progress when NBMEs, Rx, Kaplan and UWorld all operate on different scales.

I wouldnt do questions during the last week. May be only on my weak areas. Other than that most of time should be spent reviewing.

The final week (or two) should be >90% focused on re-memorizing one's QBank-annotated copy of FA. If there are questions done in the final week, they should be via NBME or USMLE CD (or UWorld if for some reason that hadn't already been finished twice).

 

[WashMe]

SDN has a lot of good content, but as with all advice on the internet one should use discretion when sorting through the garbage to get to the gold. What those 250/260+ people are saying does not make sense. Focus "more" on FA? When they got 250/260+? That means they had other resources which helped them get that score, and they didn't solely focus on FA. I would go with the resources they actually used to get 250/260+ rather than what they "would have used" to get a hypothetical score.

I scored 250+, and so did most of my friends -- some of them scored high 260's and one of them low 270's. We all pretty much agreed afterwards that FA and UW have all the important stuff. I ONLY used FA, UW, and NBME practice tests, and so did my buddy who got a 269.

Think of it like this -- I honestly believe that if I could take step I as an open book test, and get 2 days to do it to account for time needed to look stuff up, I could practically guarantee a 265+. The vast majority (probably 90+%) of the material really IS in FA and UW. Having basic thinking skills is a prerequisite, but anyone who actually finished MS1-2 has the level of skills required to crush this thing under open-book and extended time conditions.

 

[Phloston]

I scored 250+, and so did most of my friends -- some of them scored high 260's and one of them low 270's. We all pretty much agreed afterwards that FA and UW have all the important stuff. I ONLY used FA, UW, and NBME practice tests, and so did my buddy who got a 269.

Think of it like this -- I honestly believe that if I could take step I as an open book test, and get 2 days to do it to account for time needed to look stuff up, I could practically guarantee a 265+. The vast majority (probably 90+%) of the material really IS in FA and UW. Having basic thinking skills is a prerequisite, but anyone who actually finished MS1-2 has the level of skills required to crush this thing under open-book and extended time conditions.

How would you recommend going through UWorld (e.g. tutor-mode first-pass w/ timed-mode second-pass, timed both times, etc.)?

And I know you said you got 250+ (congrats on that), but with respect to your friend, who got 270+, with all exaggerations aside, what did he or she do to get that score that you feel you or your other friends didn't do (e.g. more time doing UWorld, different background, etc.)? Is he or she on SDN?

 

[JackShephard MD]

How would you recommend going through UWorld (e.g. tutor-mode first-pass w/ timed-mode second-pass, timed both times, etc.)?

And I know you said you got 250+ (congrats on that), but with respect to your friend, who got 270+, with all exaggerations aside, what did he or she do to get that score that you feel you or your other friends didn't do (e.g. more time doing UWorld, different background, etc.)? Is he or she on SDN?

Although I'm being a bit pretentious here, speaking about something I haven't done, I doubt you're going to be able to find a "prepare for 250+ by doing this" vs. a "prepare for 270+ by doing this" type of advice. I'm sure they both did similar things, except one got more questions right the day of the exam (for whatever reason). I think this test begins to be overemphasized when you're trying to differentiate between 250+ advice compared to 270+ advice. It's just an exam.

 

[Phloston]

The point I'm trying to make is that many people claim to have scored in the 250-60 ballpark with FA and UWorld alone. That doesn't say much. However virtually any person who's eclipsed 270 has done far beyond that, and for anyone to come in and say that that's not the case probably just doesn't really know. You'd see a lot of 260+'s out there if FA + UWorld were enough. They're obviously not.

 

[JackShephard MD]

The point I'm trying to make is that many people claim to have scored in the 250-60 ballpark with FA and UWorld alone. That doesn't say much. However virtually any person who's eclipsed 270 has done far beyond that, and for anyone to come in and say that that's not the case probably just doesn't really know. You'd see a lot of 260+'s out there if FA + UWorld were enough. They're obviously not.

Wait? Scoring in the 250-260 range with just FA and UWorld alone doesn't say much? lol.

I think trying to find the difference between a 260 and 250 is a waste of time. A 250 will allow you to do anything you want in medicine.

 

[Phloston]

Wait? Scoring in the 250-260 range with just FA and UWorld alone doesn't say much? lol.

I think trying to find the difference between a 260 and 250 is a waste of time. A 250 will allow you to do anything you want in medicine.

JackShephard, I know you realize that although a 250+ might get you into your area of choice, it doesn't guarantee the first pick on the match list. Many of us aren't as concerned about getting a particular specialty as much as we are about where we're training for that specialty.

 

[deleted103644]

JackShephard, I know you realize that although a 250+ might get you into your area of choice, it doesn't guarantee the first pick on the match list. Many of us aren't as concerned about getting a particular specialty as much as we are about where we're training for that specialty.

Most program directors stop distinguishing between candidates once you get above 250. Other parts of the application become important.

 

[Phloston]

 

[SteinUmStein]

It isn't really a secret that 250+ is more or less a wash. Most prog directors will openly tell you that beyond 250 there are many more important factors than another 5 or 10 points on Step 1.

 

[deleted103644]

It isn't really a secret that 250+ is more or less a wash. Most prog directors will openly tell you that beyond 250 there are many more important factors than another 5 or 10 points on Step 1.

Yup, I was basically quoting aProgDirector verbatim.

The only exceptions are specialties where there are too many 250+ applicants and they need to narrow them down. This essentially only applies to dermatology, plastic surgery, and maybe a handful of CA programs in competitive specialties (ortho, radiology, etc).

 

[VisionaryTics]

It isn't really a secret that 250+ is more or less a wash. Most prog directors will openly tell you that beyond 250 there are many more important factors than another 5 or 10 points on Step 1.

Isn't Phloston an FMG? He needs every point he can get if he is trying to match in the US.

Looking at the "Charting Outcomes 2011", for even the most competitive specialties, the match rates for 240-250 and 250+ are pretty similar. I think it's pretty established that a high Step 1 score will grab you an interview at a top tier place in your field, but matching there requires all the other factors.

Also, paging Drizzt...

 

[SteinUmStein]

Isn't Phloston an FMG? He needs every point he can get if he is trying to match in the US.

Looking at the "Charting Outcomes 2011", for even the most competitive specialties, the match rates for 240-250 and 250+ are pretty similar. I think it's pretty established that a high Step 1 score will grab you an interview at a top tier place in your field, but matching there requires all the other factors.

Also, paging Drizzt...

Hmm yes it may matter more for FMG's but I'd still argue that anything above 250 is going to get their attention in any specialty other than derm, plastics, etc.

 

[Wheatley]

Hmm yes it may matter more for FMG's but I'd still argue that anything above 250 is going to get their attention in any specialty other than derm, plastics, etc.

For sure, I agree. But here we are talking about location as well. The more selective locations may have 250 as the average for applicants in very competitive specialties. At these desirable locations a 250 is no longer outstanding relative to the competition.

Although I'm being a bit pretentious here, speaking about something I haven't done, I doubt you're going to be able to find a "prepare for 250+ by doing this" vs. a "prepare for 270+ by doing this" type of advice. I'm sure they both did similar things, except one got more questions right the day of the exam (for whatever reason). I think this test begins to be overemphasized when you're trying to differentiate between 250+ advice compared to 270+ advice. It's just an exam.

This is what Phloston is asking about though. There is a difference between 250s and 270+, although some people do not like to admit this. Whether or not program directors distinguish between 250 and 260 and 270 is not important if that anecdote is even valid in the first place. When a program director says that it is just like when applying to med school the recruiters said "we look at your MCAT but also the whole package." A 45T will not guarantee anything just like a 270+ will not guarantee anything, but it is very impressive and will only improve your chances. But that's my take on it.

Back to the topic at hand: if FA/UW has everything you need, what can we attribute the discrepancy to between WashMe and his colleagues? This is an interesting question and I am interested in the answer as well.

 

[mdeast]

For sure, I agree. But here we are talking about location as well. The more selective locations may have 250 as the average for applicants in very competitive specialties. At these desirable locations a 250 is no longer outstanding relative to the competition.


This is what Phloston is asking about though. There is a difference between 250s and 270+, although some people do not like to admit this. Whether or not program directors distinguish between 250 and 260 and 270 is not important if that anecdote is even valid in the first place. When a program director says that it is just like when applying to med school the recruiters said "we look at your MCAT but also the whole package." A 45T will not guarantee anything just like a 270+ will not guarantee anything, but it is very impressive and will only improve your chances. But that's my take on it.

Back to the topic at hand: if FA/UW has everything you need, what can we attribute the discrepancy to between WashMe and his colleagues? This is an interesting question and I am interested in the answer as well.

Actually I would definitely refute this. I got to a "Top 5 School" and talked to one of our residency directors who told me that they had 5 students apply this year that had over a 270 on Step 1. None of those students were selected.

In other words, I'd venture to guess that lower ranked programs value high Step 1 scores more than higher ranked programs. In higher ranked programs it's much more a cut off (i.e. get above a 230 or 240). You differentiate yourself based on connections, publications, extra degrees, research, etc. They're looking for future academic doctors, not people who can score a 100% on an exam. The other things become much more important once you reach that threshold.

 

[shan564]

This is what Phloston is asking about though. There is a difference between 250s and 270+, although some people do not like to admit this.

We also have to consider the fact that the average score has gone up by 8 points in the last two years. So some of our anecdotes may be a bit dated in that regard.

Back to the topic at hand: if FA/UW has everything you need, what can we attribute the discrepancy to between WashMe and his colleagues? This is an interesting question and I am interested in the answer as well.

I think this is just an example of how everybody is different. And the fact that the study materials you use won't define your score. Over at usmle-forums, you see all sorts of people who completed "4 reads of FA, 2 reads of UW, 3 reads of this, 5 reads of that" and still can't manage to break 210, probably because their fundamentals aren't very strong and they're just reading/memorizing materials from review books. And then you'll see other people who use nothing other than FA and UW and do much better, probably because they already had a great background knowledge... and they might even be a bit smarter than the rest of us, which would help when you're working through those 5193048-step questions.

 

[shan564]

Actually I would definitely refute this. I got to a "Top 5 School" and talked to one of our residency directors who told me that they had 5 students apply this year that had over a 270 on Step 1. None of those students were selected.

Which specialty was that?

Also, I'm curious... I've seen you say "top 5 school" a few times times, so the suspense is killing me now...

 

[Phloston]

For sure, I agree. But here we are talking about location as well. The more selective locations may have 250 as the average for applicants in very competitive specialties. At these desirable locations a 250 is no longer outstanding relative to the competition.


This is what Phloston is asking about though. There is a difference between 250s and 270+, although some people do not like to admit this. Whether or not program directors distinguish between 250 and 260 and 270 is not important if that anecdote is even valid in the first place. When a program director says that it is just like when applying to med school the recruiters said "we look at your MCAT but also the whole package." A 45T will not guarantee anything just like a 270+ will not guarantee anything, but it is very impressive and will only improve your chances. But that's my take on it.

Back to the topic at hand: if FA/UW has everything you need, what can we attribute the discrepancy to between WashMe and his colleagues? This is an interesting question and I am interested in the answer as well.

Actually I would definitely refute this. I got to a "Top 5 School" and talked to one of our residency directors who told me that they had 5 students apply this year that had over a 270 on Step 1. None of those students were selected.

In other words, I'd venture to guess that lower ranked programs value high Step 1 scores more than higher ranked programs. In higher ranked programs it's much more a cut off (i.e. get above a 230 or 240). You differentiate yourself based on connections, publications, extra degrees, research, etc. They're looking for future academic doctors, not people who can score a 100% on an exam. The other things become much more important once you reach that threshold.

Mdeast, I'm not really sure what you're refuting in Wheatley's comments; you guys have basically said the exact same thing.

Nevertheless, one of the previous posters has correctly pointed out that I will be an IMG, given that I live in Australia. Regardless of the match data PDF, which likely doesn't even take into account a myriad of confounding variables, the magnitude of my score does matter much more than an American senior's would. Before I could even begin dreaming of a gen surg interview in Boston or Cleveland, not breaking 260 isn't an option.

 

[WashMe]

How would you recommend going through UWorld (e.g. tutor-mode first-pass w/ timed-mode second-pass, timed both times, etc.)?

And I know you said you got 250+ (congrats on that), but with respect to your friend, who got 270+, with all exaggerations aside, what did he or she do to get that score that you feel you or your other friends didn't do (e.g. more time doing UWorld, different background, etc.)? Is he or she on SDN?

The 270+ guy is not on SDN. I don't think he really did anything different than I did... we both had similar backgrounds, we both completed MS1/2, and we used the same resources for Step I.

He is just smarter than me, that's all. Bottom line. People always try to ignore this factor. Sometimes, despite your best efforts, other people will do much better than you -- and that's OK.

People often think the person who scored higher must have used more resources, or somehow seen more material. In my experience, that's simply not accurate. The difference between him and me is that I memorized maybe 70% of FA/UW, whereas he memorized more like 90% of it.

That's all. No magic about it. He said himself that he feels like he didn't miss very many questions on the real deal, and when he flipped through FA after the test (which he annotated with UW), the stuff he missed was pretty much all in there.

edit: we all used UW on untimed-tutor mode, so we could do good annotations and get immediate feedback after answering questions. We honed our time-management skills by taking NBME exams.

Although I'm being a bit pretentious here, speaking about something I haven't done, I doubt you're going to be able to find a "prepare for 250+ by doing this" vs. a "prepare for 270+ by doing this" type of advice. I'm sure they both did similar things, except one got more questions right the day of the exam (for whatever reason). I think this test begins to be overemphasized when you're trying to differentiate between 250+ advice compared to 270+ advice. It's just an exam.

Combination of intelligence, memory, and test taking skills. It's the same reason that I could assign 100 people a 50 page chapter on developmental biology to read, test them the next day, and see scores all over the place despite them studying the exact same stuff.

Of course, if those people had been given a test covering only 5 pages of material, I'd expect everyone to ace it. However, Step I is sufficiently difficult that it differentiates people, even if those people have exposure to the same materials.

 

[JackShephard MD]

Actually I would definitely refute this. I got to a "Top 5 School" and talked to one of our residency directors who told me that they had 5 students apply this year that had over a 270 on Step 1. None of those students were selected.

In other words, I'd venture to guess that lower ranked programs value high Step 1 scores more than higher ranked programs. In higher ranked programs it's much more a cut off (i.e. get above a 230 or 240). You differentiate yourself based on connections, publications, extra degrees, research, etc. They're looking for future academic doctors, not people who can score a 100% on an exam. The other things become much more important once you reach that threshold.

Again, I'm no expert, but I tend to side with this advice from all that I've read and heard.

As med students, we really want to believe 255 < 260 <<< 265 <<<<< 270+. But in reality, as many who know decision makers can attest to, 250+ means you've done a really good job. Now let's check out what type of person you are, have you done research, where did you go to school, clinical grades, etc. There's so much that goes into picking a good applicant.

The 270+ guy is not on SDN. I don't think he really did anything different than I did... we both had similar backgrounds (state school UG), we both completed MS1/2, and we used the same resources for Step I.

He is just smarter than me, that's all. Bottom line. People always try to ignore this factor. Sometimes, despite your best efforts, other people will do much better than you -- and that's OK.

People often think the person who scored higher must have used more resources, or somehow seen more material. In my experience, that's simply not accurate. The difference between him and me is that I memorized maybe 70% of FA/UW, whereas he memorized more like 90% of it.

That's all. No magic about it. He said himself that he feels like he didn't miss very many questions on the real deal, and when he flipped through FA after the test (which he annotated with UW), the stuff he missed was pretty much all in there.



Combination of intelligence, memory, and test taking skills. It's the same reason that I could assign 100 people a 50 page chapter on developmental biology to read, test them the next day, and see scores all over the place despite them studying the exact same stuff.

Of course, if those people had been given a test covering only 5 pages of material, I'd expect everyone to ace it. However, Step I is sufficiently difficult that it differentiates people, even if those people have exposure to the same materials.

Great post.

 

[Kaputt]

Actually I would definitely refute this. I got to a "Top 5 School" and talked to one of our residency directors who told me that they had 5 students apply this year that had over a 270 on Step 1. None of those students were selected.

In other words, I'd venture to guess that lower ranked programs value high Step 1 scores more than higher ranked programs. In higher ranked programs it's much more a cut off (i.e. get above a 230 or 240). You differentiate yourself based on connections, publications, extra degrees, research, etc. They're looking for future academic doctors, not people who can score a 100% on an exam. The other things become much more important once you reach that threshold.

The wisdom I always heard was that a score >270 raises concerns that you are a normal human being and not just a massive brain. Like, how on earth did this person score so highly and do they do anything other than study?

I definitely agree that people should be thinking more along the lines of cut-offs and shouldn't worry about not being in the top 1% of test-takers.

 

[Convalaria]

Does the real exam have text high-lighting option as Kaplan and UW have?
I found this function veeeery convenient

 

[Kaputt]

Does the real exam have text high-lighting option as Kaplan and UW have?
I found this function veeeery convenient

yes, the interface is exactly like UW actually

 

[Convalaria]

This function is good in handling in UW rather than in Kaplan, so that's why it was my concern

Thank you!

 

[Wheatley]

Actually I would definitely refute this. I got to a "Top 5 School" and talked to one of our residency directors who told me that they had 5 students apply this year that had over a 270 on Step 1. None of those students were selected.

I may have missed it, but what exactly are you refuting in my post? I explicitly said a 270+ guarantees nothing, but it is still a positive. Unless your residency director said those candidates were rejected for having a 270+ then it is not a negative to have an insanely high score. I think a lot of people are in denial about this and try to rationalize 250+ = 270+ to feel better. No offense meant. Obviously a 250+ is a great score, just like a 39 is a great MCAT score, but not a 45.

I think you mentioning Stanford (competitive location) getting 5 270+ applicants backs up what I am saying even more. At these competitive places a 250 is not that special.

WashMe: Thanks for your post.

The wisdom I always heard was that a score >270 raises concerns that you are a normal human being and not just a massive brain. Like, how on earth did this person score so highly and do they do anything other than study?

I am not sure where you heard this, but it does not make sense to me. Unless you actually only studied and had nothing else to show for 4 years of medical school, nobody will have these concerns. My friend scored very high on the MCAT, but nobody viewed it negatively because he did other things in college and could communicate. This is another one of those things some people like to rationalize to feel better about reality, which is they will be competing against people who do have these insanely high scores and do have lives. Again no offense to anyone.

I think for US students a cut-off mentality is fine, but for IMGs everything is comparatively harder.

I think this is just an example of how everybody is different. And the fact that the study materials you use won't define your score. Over at usmle-forums, you see all sorts of people who completed "4 reads of FA, 2 reads of UW, 3 reads of this, 5 reads of that" and still can't manage to break 210, probably because their fundamentals aren't very strong and they're just reading/memorizing materials from review books. And then you'll see other people who use nothing other than FA and UW and do much better, probably because they already had a great background knowledge... and they might even be a bit smarter than the rest of us, which would help when you're working through those 5193048-step questions.

Yea this is a great post. I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Kaputt]

I am not sure where you heard this, but it does not make sense to me. Unless you actually only studied and had nothing else to show for 4 years of medical school, nobody will have these concerns. My friend scored very high on the MCAT, but nobody viewed it negatively because he did other things in college and could communicate. This is another one of those things some people like to rationalize to feel better about reality, which is they will be competing against people who do have these insanely high scores and do have lives. Again no offense to anyone.

It might have been the MCAT that I was thinking off. Thinking back, I heard that the adcom at my school apparently specifically combs through the applications of the monster MCAT scorers to ensure they had enough social extracurriculars. A 40 MCAT by no means guaranteed an interview.

But honestly, what really IS the difference between a 260 and a 270? Once you get in that territory the differences in scores are determined by only a couple questions. I think residency directors are smart enough to realize that once you pass the 250-260 mark it's the territory of luck. Plus, residencies don't publish their step averages, so it's not like there is this ego-booster that comes if they match a bunch of >270 kids into their program.

I don't know. I think people on this forum place way too much of an emphasis on these scores beyond a certain point. There are tiers of scores, yes, but to nitpick at the difference once you're beyond two standard deviations is absurd. And I say this all without knowing my score by the way