Official 2013-2014 - What are my chances thread?

[splik]

There are a few points:

- if you want to have an academic career you ought to go to an academic program, ideally with a research track or significant opportunities/funding for residents to do research. 'university program' is a meaningless term that has nothing to do with how academic a program is. as vistaril rightly points out, most psychiatry programs are 'university programs' but most of them don't do any research of consequence and there are few opportunities for residents to do research at some of these programs. In contrast, some so-called community programs will allow their residents to be involved in research at nearby academic centers (for example san mateo in the example given). so yes, whilst you cannot apply to san mateo, you would be better off going there than lsu-shreveport, to follow vistaril's example. shreveport is where everything went to die, no one ever made an academic psychiatry career in bumblef*ck county.

if you haven't had any research opportunities, it is going to be harder to sell yourself to good academic psychiatry departments. there are many, many FMGs who do make successful entry into academic programs and they have significant research experience, and publication records, and known PIs who will vouch for them and provide an LoR. If you are really serious about a career in academic psychiatry you ought to be getting involved in research. You should seriously consider meeting with academic psychiatrists and asking if they have anything for you to do. Some people will even do grunt work for free. It can be hard to get a foot in the door, but you need to prove yourself.

Now, it isn't absolutely necessary to have had this experience to get involved in research during residency as an FMG (many don't and there are many programs that require research for all residents to some degree), but it certainly helps.

Psychiatry has not suddenly become more competitive, they say the same thing every year. Remember that the overwhelming majority of applicants for psychiatry are FMGs. There is very little change year on year in US allopathic students (it was slightly up this year, but has been declining generally over the past few years). Don't be too discouraged... you will get your rejections first. It will be a while before programs send out interview offers to you (see my FAQs thread).

Also, it won't hurt you to send an email to a few select programs you are interested outlining why you are awesome and what you will get from that program in particular to the PD (less than 200 words). It might not help, but it certainly won't hurt.

You don't mention which country you are from. Yes that matters. A lot.

good luck, try not to be too discouraged. You have a decent enough step 1 (much better than mine anyway and I got interviews at some great programs). The step 2 score matters less for many programs, and more for some. Those US letters of recommendation will certainly help if they were good (remember they all say how amazing such and such is, so that's not enough.).

Good luck, give it at least 2 months before you give up, it's too early to be despairing, but I;m sure I felt the same way!

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[OldPsychDoc]

What if I have a good CK score (I scored 253 on my last self-assessment), but have a CS failure? This is hypothetical at this point, but I took CS today and am nearly certain that I failed, especially given the higher standards. I would be able to retake and have a score before ranking, but not before interviews. Would I get ANY interviews in the Midwest?

In light of an overall good application, as you hinted yours is, you'd probably still get interviews. We've seen quite a few anxious but otherwise decent applicants miss CS on the first go and pass the second. Failing the second though...probably not as easily forgiven.

 

[SandyWest]

If you interview well, you'll likely find a place if you apply broadly and early. I wouldn't get so fixated on "mid-tier university program." Your likelihood of matching is probably going to be proportional to how open-minded you are.

Thank you. Can you let me know what my goals should be, realistically? I can apply to more programs now if need be. I have so far applied to all mid-tier universities, many low-tier universities, and only a few good community programs.

 

[SandyWest]

Thank you Leo Aquarius and notdeadyet. What I meant by not having a shot at Cali programs, I mean, I do not qualify for any of them without the PTAL letter which I cannot get without an SSN.

Thanks a lot splik for the very detailed reply. I had read your sticky thread many times and was fairly confident about achieving my goals until the Step 2 score of <210 came crashing through the roof yesterday. After reading your post, I think I will take the chance with staying here for the next few months and see where it takes me. I will also apply even more broadly like you and notdeadyet suggest.

I had already emailed a few programs that were very high on my priority list and received favorable replies, but after yesterday I am unsure if they would mean anything. At least two of my three US LORs are stellar and so is my home country one. But then again, I suppose I need to get through the screening filters and get called for interviews before the selection committees would read my LORs?

Only issue with waiting out the next two months here is that I will certainly miss all residency opportunities back home. Splik, if I remember right, you had a slightly lower Step 1 score than mine and a much higher Step 2 score, and you matched at a good university program. But, you had mentioned that you had other plans in the event that you did not match. What were they? Back to UK for residency or something else?

Also, any advice on how to deal with the issue of the low step 2 score during interviews? I suppose I should wait for them to bring it up, since as you said, the program may be one of the few that does not put much weight on step 2 scores, but when they do bring it up, what would be the best way to address it without giving excuses? I have seen advice on the board to address the negatives in the personal statement but I suppose that window had passed for me.

 

[splik]

stop catastrophizing. i am not sure whether your step 2 score will make a difference. step 1 scores are more important in general, and you have a solid pass on step 2. have you got your ECFMG certification yet? you could have received rejections because of lacking that for example. i am guessing you dont have that yet if you only just got your step 2ck.

no one ever mentioned my scores in interviews, it is unlikely to come up as you did not barely pass and haven't failed. if the programs are interviewing you it means your scores are good enough for them.

 

[splik]

also remember than many of the FMGs applying cannot speak or write in english very well. you write great - clear, good spelling, punctuation, grammar! that is a plus in my book.

also i never said anything about applying broadly. apply anywhere you think would be fine for you. you may want to do some research into programs to decide whether they would be able to support your aspirations.

 

[SandyWest]

You are right, I tend to do that. I have received my certification only yesterday and in the ADTS section on ERAS a lot of the programs I had applied to have downloaded my updated ECFMG status report now. I suppose these programs have not rejected me yet for not having the ECFMG certificate. I may be wrong about this last inference.

Sorry for misreading your earlier post. I have indeed been poring through SDN and Scutwork archives for the past few hours finding and selecting more places to apply to, including some community programs. It is also helpful to know that scores were not discussed during your interviews. Thank you.

 

[shariq786]

Step 1: 230's
Step 2 CK: 250's
CS: Pass
All first attempts
School: Carib img
Class Rankretty high id imagine
Grades in Clerkship: Hp in psych hp or h in others
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Lots of extracurriculars some medicine research pending . No psych research
Red Flags:need visa , Canadian citizen
Overview of where you want to end up: A good research university program, Ivy League would be nice

Do I have a shot at the Big namers?

 

[nyjack]

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Longtime member with a new username during interview season.

Just received my step 2 ck score of 230. I am curious what you guys think about when to submit it. Right now or just prior to match day?

US allopathic student, Step 1 225, no red flags, a few publications in and out of psych, some research in and out of psych, strong extracurriculars, strong letters, clinical grades all honors/ high pass.

I am applying in the northeast and would like a shot at cornell, columbia, nyu, yale, upenn, mt sinai, etc. Step 1 was transmitted on day one, but I am unsure how that step 2 score and when I send it (and my application as a whole) will impact invites/ ranking.

Thank you for all your help. This forum has been an amazing resource.

NYJ

 

[vistaril]

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Longtime member with a new username during interview season.

Just received my step 2 ck score of 230. I am curious what you guys think about when to submit it. Right now or just prior to match day?

US allopathic student, Step 1 225, no red flags, a few publications in and out of psych, some research in and out of psych, strong extracurriculars, strong letters, clinical grades all honors/ high pass.

I am applying in the northeast and would like a shot at cornell, columbia, nyu, yale, upenn, mt sinai, etc. Step 1 was transmitted on day one, but I am unsure how that step 2 score and when I send it (and my application as a whole) will impact invites/ ranking.

Thank you for all your help. This forum has been an amazing resource.

NYJ

this is a ridiculous question....of course you should just release it now. A 230 is a perfectly fine score to the extent that it matters.

 

[shan564]

I think you have a shot at some of those places, depending on what you mean by "big namers." "Ivy league" places tend to shy away USIMGs, unless you count Harvard South Shore or St. Luke's-Roosevelt (part of the Columbia network). I know that WashU has accepted a couple of Caribbean grads in the past... but they're not really a "big name" outside of the medical community. I know that Mayo and Cleveland Clinic also take USIMGs, but I'm not sure if they have a bias against the Caribbean. You'd also be competitive at Baylor, since they put a lot of stock into the USMLE if you're an IMG... not sure if you consider that to be a "big name," but their Menninger Clinic is definitely a big name in psychiatry. But if you're more concerned with "high quality" than with "big name," then you should definitely apply to Iowa, Indiana, and Florida. And St. Luke's is great too.

 

[Fenster]

I think you have a shot at some of those places, depending on what you mean by "big namers." "Ivy league" places tend to shy away USIMGs, unless you count Harvard South Shore or St. Luke's-Roosevelt (part of the Columbia network). I know that WashU has accepted a couple of Caribbean grads in the past... but they're not really a "big name" outside of the medical community. I know that Mayo and Cleveland Clinic also take USIMGs, but I'm not sure if they have a bias against the Caribbean. You'd also be competitive at Baylor, since they put a lot of stock into the USMLE if you're an IMG... not sure if you consider that to be a "big name," but their Menninger Clinic is definitely a big name in psychiatry. But if you're more concerned with "high quality" than with "big name," then you should definitely apply to Iowa, Indiana, and Florida. And St. Luke's is great too.

Would you happen to know if they have a soft spot for FMGs as well?

 

[shan564]

Yeah, release it now. Having a 230 will be better than having no score at all. The only possible exception is if your Step 2 score is a big drop from your Step 1 score... if you had an average-ish Step 1 score, a PD would rather see an average-ish (or slightly below average) Step 2 score than no score at all.

 

[Bartelby]

Absolutely release it now. Not only is 230 a respectable score, it is actually an increase from your step 1. There's no reason to hide it.

 

[shan564]

Would you happen to know if they have a soft spot for FMGs as well?

Yeah, just look at their current residents list. All of the programs I mentioned seem to have no bias against foreign IMGs. In general, the "big name" programs seem to prefer foreign IMGs over US IMGs, since the latter group tend to be people who didn't get into med school in the US, and the former group are often the best and brightest in their country.

That said, Mayo and Cleveland Clinic aren't really known for psychiatry. They're great if you want a big name, but if you want the strongest program, you have several better options.

 

[notdeadyet]

A 230 is a perfectly fine score to the extent that it matters.

Very true.

The main utility of the Step II is redemption if you bomb your Step I. If you do fine on your Step I, no one cares at all what your Step II looks like. When deliberating between two candidates, the Step II is not on the radar. There is no Step II cut-off anywhere. You're fine...

 

[eastcoastdr]

Step 1: 232 first attempt
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking CK in august, passed CS first attempt
School: one of the carib big 4. US citizen, born and raised in USA though.
Class Rank: don't know?
Grades in Clerkship: 4.0 in everything. We get letter grades, not P/F
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: did research in undergrad, no publications, decent amount volunteer work, am a member of a couple clubs in med school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Overview of where you want to end up: somewhere on the east coast. preferably suburb of a big city, so I can have the best of both worlds. I'm originally from the mid-atlantic region so anything in Maryland, DC, VA would be amazing!

I feel like I have strong numbers, but the big issue here is that I'm a Carib IMG. Do I have a shot at any university programs? A few people from my school have definitely matched into amazing top tier university programs, but I have no idea what their stats were.

Edit to say I got my Step 2 CK back... 239. Is UVA within my reach?

 

[rkaz]

Edit to say I got my Step 2 CK back... 239. Is UVA within my reach?

Just apply to places where you want to go, rather than on wondering if they'd take you or not. In terms of numerical scores, I am a non-competitive applicant (though I still think I'd make a great resident due to my personal attributes). Despite my lower scores, I still got interviews to some pretty cool places that I wouldn't have expected... and I am super pleased with my interviews thus far. If you want a certain place, just apply there. Worst case, you'd be out a bit of extra money. But I think that extra bit of money is worth spending for the peace of mind of knowing you tried to get into the place you wanted.

 

[eastcoastdr]

Just apply to places where you want to go, rather than on wondering if they'd take you or not. In terms of numerical scores, I am a non-competitive applicant (though I still think I'd make a great resident due to my personal attributes). Despite my lower scores, I still got interviews to some pretty cool places that I wouldn't have expected... and I am super pleased with my interviews thus far. If you want a certain place, just apply there. Worst case, you'd be out a bit of extra money. But I think that extra bit of money is worth spending for the peace of mind of knowing you tried to get into the place you wanted.

Good advice, thank you. I did apply, just crossing my fingers that they offer me an interview.

 

[psychattending]

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Longtime member with a new username during interview season.

Just received my step 2 ck score of 230. I am curious what you guys think about when to submit it. Right now or just prior to match day?

US allopathic student, Step 1 225, no red flags, a few publications in and out of psych, some research in and out of psych, strong extracurriculars, strong letters, clinical grades all honors/ high pass.

I am applying in the northeast and would like a shot at cornell, columbia, nyu, yale, upenn, mt sinai, etc. Step 1 was transmitted on day one, but I am unsure how that step 2 score and when I send it (and my application as a whole) will impact invites/ ranking.

Thank you for all your help. This forum has been an amazing resource.

NYJ

Not releasing it would be a negative as people would tend to assume that you have not released it because it was a non-passing or very low score. 230 is a respectable score.

 

[DigFast]

Comlex level 1: 480
Comlex 2: 645, I take the PE (physical exam) the middle of October
School: one of the big/well known COM's
Class Rank: not sure, would guess somewhere in the middle of the class
Grades in Clerkship: all A's and high B's
AOA: no, but a member of SSP (the DO honor society)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: no research/pubs, lots of clubs in med school
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Overview of where you want to end up: anywhere in the Northeast, ideally Boston, Wash DC, or NYC. I applied mostly to mid level programs but threw in some top tier apps just to see what happens

 

[24314840]

Comlex level 1: 465
Comlex 2: 1st attempt lost ID after break, lost 45 min until i could get passport from home. Retake last week. felt ok about it, no score , fingers crossed feeling like i passed.
School: D.O.
Class Rank: bottom half
Grades in Clerkship: pass in all H in Family and Psych
AOA: NO
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: no research, tons of significant ex-curricular very very involved, started several organization and community programs while in school

Red Flags: (step failures, etc): step 2, repeat one class in beginning of first year.

Overview of where you want to end up: In residency! Worked as a mental health case manager before med school. Came to school to be a psych. Have a pretty compelling back story. Applied to 38 residencies 1 week ago, got 2 invites this week. With current failed step 2. Worried that I wont get much more. Should I contact PD and let them know I retook, or just wait for scores to come back in one month and contact at that time, Or just wait a few more weeks and see what happens.

 

[3882370]

Comlex level 1: 465
Comlex 2: 1st attempt lost ID after break, lost 45 min until i could get passport from home. Retake last week. felt ok about it, no score , fingers crossed feeling like i passed.
School: D.O.
Class Rank: bottom half
Grades in Clerkship: pass in all H in Family and Psych
AOA: NO
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: no research, tons of significant ex-curricular very very involved, started several organization and community programs while in school

Red Flags: (step failures, etc): step 2, repeat one class in beginning of first year.

Overview of where you want to end up: In residency! Worked as a mental health case manager before med school. Came to school to be a psych. Have a pretty compelling back story. Applied to 38 residencies 1 week ago, got 2 invites this week. With current failed step 2. Worried that I wont get much more. Should I contact PD and let them know I retook, or just wait for scores to come back in one month and contact at that time, Or just wait a few more weeks and see what happens.

If you are really interested in a particular program contact the PD and let them know your story (briefly) and why you are especially interested in their program. It might make them take a second look, if your file is in a stack of "hold"s.

 

[Fenster]

If you are really interested in a particular program contact the PD and let them know your story (briefly) and why you are especially interested in their program. It might make them take a second look, if your file is in a stack of "hold"s.

I don't know if that is such a good idea? What if the application is in a stack of "to be reviewed" and bugging them with an email this early makes them move it to the "hold" stack?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I don't know if that is such a good idea? What if the application is in a stack of "to be reviewed" and bugging them with an email this early makes them move it to the "hold" stack?

Do you really think we're that petty?
If so, I guess we're doing you a favor by not "forcing" you to interview with a program that punishes people for being interested.

Sheesh...

But if you're "on hold" for a missing Step 2 (either flavor) after a fail, we probably are going to be waiting to get a confirmed pass--whether or not you email us.

 

[Yoyomama88]

Not releasing it would be a negative as people would tend to assume that you have not released it because it was a non-passing or very low score. 230 is a respectable score.

But how would programs know whether or not he took the exam or not yet?

 

[Fenster]

But if you're "on hold" for a missing Step 2 (either flavor) after a fail, we probably are going to be waiting to get a confirmed pass--whether or not you email us.

I only meant that considering it is not even October yet, it may be too early to contact a program especially to say that he had failed step 2 when he could email them in a couple of Wednesdays or so and say that he passed it.

However, I would listen to your advice as well and contact the program right away as while my answer was just speculative, yours is not.

 

[Jorje286]

Can someone elaborate what would make a good candidate for the top academic programs? What do you have to do to stand out for the tier 1? The reason I'm aiming for the first group is because I want to go into academic psychiatry but also I need to keep my expectations in line. I have very good steps but not stellar (>240 Step 1/Step 2), one first author pub (basic neuroscience from undergrad), one first author case report (in submission) and hopefully I get to publish another paper before I graduate. Then I have a year before I apply where I will have my Step 3's, and I haven't decided what I will do (maybe research or maybe some volunteering). Top 15% of the class last year (and if I make it this year I will be overall, with a spare shot for AOA). Of course being an IMG complicates things a lot more (though from a very reputable university). And I'm aware that I need great letters of recommendation, and there are some intangibles which you can never account for (contacts..etc). I know my profile is good but is it good enough? What sets the tier I applicants from the rest? Should I just set my expectations much lower?

 

[SmallBird]

Can someone elaborate what would make a good candidate for the top academic programs? What do you have to do to stand out for the tier 1? The reason I'm aiming for the first group is because I want to go into academic psychiatry but also I need to keep my expectations in line. I have very good steps but not stellar (>240 Step 1/Step 2), one first author pub (basic neuroscience from undergrad), one first author case report (in submission) and hopefully I get to publish another paper before I graduate. Then I have a year before I apply where I will have my Step 3's, and I haven't decided what I will do (maybe research or maybe some volunteering). Top 15% of the class last year (and if I make it this year I will be overall, with a spare shot for AOA). Of course being an IMG complicates things a lot more (though from a very reputable university). And I'm aware that I need great letters of recommendation, and there are some intangibles which you can never account for (contacts..etc). I know my profile is good but is it good enough? What sets the tier I applicants from the rest? Should I just set my expectations much lower?

Based on this description you sound like tier 1 material! Where did you graduate? That makes a difference.

 

[24314840]

Thanks for the advice. After reading your responses, I will likely wait for the end of this week to see if I get anymore invites. Regardless I will send an email next Sunday to the programs I really like and let them know that I am interested and what my situation is. You're right I know that some programs will either 1 not consider me at all, 2 only consider me after a passing score, or 3 look at my entire application and offer me an interview anyway (likely wanting to see my passing score by my interview date). Hopefully they don't see this as bugging them, and see it as my true desire and interest in the program.

 

[rkaz]

Do programs still give out "ranked to match" emails to applicants in Jan/Feb? If so, how common is this practice?

 

[gynosquad]

Hi there,

please ignore my handle, it was a funny word I saw on Grey's Anatomy. I am applying to only psych programs (apparently most people use psych as a back up), and I am EXTREMELY desperate to match this year. I graduated from a caribbean school, I was born and raised in Oregon, and I have horrible board scores, and 2 failed attempts on CK. I already know that I'm not going to a top 25 psych program, and I'm not applying to California or Texas (if anyone knows if it's rubbish that IMGs shouldn't apply here, please let me know). If anyone knows of programs that are known for taking people with low scores, please please please let me know. I don't want to be left high and dry this year and I am very excited to start a career in psychiatry. I have applied to 54 programs, but I would love to add more.

*** if a programs lists a certain number of attempts on their website, is this a final decision on who they would take? Even if you show significant interest in psych and multiple psych LORs and usce with electives in psych? Thanks so much for any input.

-desperate

 

[gynosquad]

To add to the ease of helping me out, if anyone chooses to do so. I'm going to list my programs. Hopefully this is not obnoxious, but I am extremely desperate and looking for any help.

54 Programs I've applied to
Hennepin County Medical Center/Regions Hospital Program, St. Paul, MN
University of North Carolina Hospitals Program, Chapel Hill, NC
Vidant Medical Center/East Carolina University Program, Greenville, NC
Bergen Regional Medical Center Program, Paramus, NJ
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University/Cooper University Hospital Program, Camden, NJ
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School Program, Piscataway, NJ
University of New Mexico Program, Albuquerque, NM
University of Nevada School of Medicine (Las Vegas) Program, Las Vegas, NV
University of Nevada School of Medicine Program, Reno, NV
Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program, Bronx, NY
Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Bronx-Lebanon Hospital Center Program, Bronx, NY
Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center Program, Brooklyn, NY
Creedmoor Psychiatric Center Program, Queens Village, NY
Harlem Hospital Center Program, New York, NY
Jamaica Hospital Medical Center Program, Jamaica, NY
Lincoln Medical and Mental Health Center Program, Bronx, NY
NSLIJHS/Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine at the Zucker Hillside Hospital Program, Glen Oaks, NY
Richmond University Medical Center Program, Staten Island, NY
SUNY at Stony Brook Program, Stony Brook, NY
St. John's Episcopal Hospital-South Shore Program, Far Rockaway, NY
Staten Island University Hospital Program, Staten Island, NY
Case Western Reserve University/University Hospitals Case Medical Center Program, Cleveland, OH
Northeast Ohio Medical University Program, Akron, OH
University of Toledo Program, Toledo, OH
Albert Einstein Healthcare Network Program, Philadelphia, PA
Allegheny General Hospital-Western Pennsylvania Hospital Medical Education Consortium (AGH) Program, Pittsburgh, PA
Temple University Hospital Program, Philadelphia, PA
Greenville Hospital System/University of South Carolina Program, Greenville, SC
East Tennessee State University Program, Johnson City, TN
Meharry Medical College Program, Nashville, TN
West Virginia University Program, Morgantown, WV

18 Programs I'm considering applying to today
University of South Alabama Program, Mobile, AL
Institute of Living/Hartford Hospital Program, Hartford, CT
St Elizabeths Hospital-DC Department of Mental Health Program, Washington, DC
Jackson Memorial Hospital/Jackson Health System Program, Miami, FL
University of Kansas (Wichita) Program, Wichita, KS
University of Kentucky College of Medicine Program, Lexington, KY
St Elizabeth's Medical Center Program, Boston, MA
Maine Medical Center Program, Portland, ME
University of Missouri at Kansas City Program, Kansas City, MO
University of North Dakota Program, Fargo, ND
Maimonides Medical Center Program, Brooklyn, NY
Nassau University Medical Center Program, East Meadow, NY
Case Western Reserve University (MetroHealth) Program, Cleveland, OH
Griffin Memorial Hospital Program, Norman, OK
University of Oklahoma School of Community Medicine (Tulsa) Program, Tulsa, OK
University of Vermont/Fletcher Allen Health Care Program, Burlington, VT
Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals Program, Milwaukee, WI

 

[Firewood]

Do programs still give out "ranked to match" emails to applicants in Jan/Feb? If so, how common is this practice?

This varies based on the applicant and the program. Some programs will maintain radio silence. Others have the PD telephoning. I got some form of unsolicited "we like you and hope you'll rank us highly" communications from about half the schools I interviewed at, but in full disclosure I interviewed very regionally.

Also, don't let yourself be swayed too much when the time comes and you get these sort of messages. It's nice to be liked & wanted, but just because another program doesn't do this doesn't mean you won't match there.

 

[Saint Boogie]

Hello. I’m a first-time poster. Thank you for any advice

Step 1: 235
Step 2 CK/CS: Have not taken.
School: top 25 US allopathic
Class rank: 50th percentile +/- 15%
Grades in Clerkships: All pass so far. Have not done Psych
AOA: No
Research/pubs/ECs: 4 posters and 1 publication in the field of neuropsychiatry. 1 other publication in surgery. No ECs in med school.
Red Flags: None.
Where do you want to end up: Would “top tier” schools be unrealistic?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Hello. I’m a first-time poster. Thank you for any advice

Step 1: 235
Step 2 CK/CS: Have not taken.
School: top 25 US allopathic
Class rank: 50th percentile +/- 15%
Grades in Clerkships: All pass so far. Have not done Psych
AOA: No
Research/pubs/ECs: 4 posters and 1 publication in the field of neuropsychiatry. 1 other publication in surgery. No ECs in med school.
Red Flags: None.
Where do you want to end up: Would “top tier” schools be unrealistic?

Shoo in, darn near everyplace.

 

[mdninja]

Hi there,

please ignore my handle, it was a funny word I saw on Grey's Anatomy. I am applying to only psych programs (apparently most people use psych as a back up), and I am EXTREMELY desperate to match this year. I graduated from a caribbean school, I was born and raised in Oregon, and I have horrible board scores, and 2 failed attempts on CK. I already know that I'm not going to a top 25 psych program, and I'm not applying to California or Texas (if anyone knows if it's rubbish that IMGs shouldn't apply here, please let me know). If anyone knows of programs that are known for taking people with low scores, please please please let me know. I don't want to be left high and dry this year and I am very excited to start a career in psychiatry. I have applied to 54 programs, but I would love to add more.

*** if a programs lists a certain number of attempts on their website, is this a final decision on who they would take? Even if you show significant interest in psych and multiple psych LORs and usce with electives in psych? Thanks so much for any input.

-desperate

Lots of programs will have filters that will scan out applicants with multiple attempts but not all will do this. I would add at least 50 more programs. Do you have a passing CK score now? How long ago did you graduate? Was it a big 3 carib school? Do you have extensive experience since graduation? Taking Step 3 and being able to pass it will surely help you since most programs will fear that you wont be able to clear it. Apply broadly and you might be able to get a few invites late in the season if people cancel their IVs and you have alot of psych experience.

 

[Saint Boogie]

Shoo in, darn near everyplace.

Thank you.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Hi there,

please ignore my handle, it was a funny word I saw on Grey's Anatomy. I am applying to only psych programs (apparently most people use psych as a back up), and I am EXTREMELY desperate to match this year. I graduated from a caribbean school, I was born and raised in Oregon, and I have horrible board scores, and 2 failed attempts on CK. I already know that I'm not going to a top 25 psych program, and I'm not applying to California or Texas (if anyone knows if it's rubbish that IMGs shouldn't apply here, please let me know). If anyone knows of programs that are known for taking people with low scores, please please please let me know. I don't want to be left high and dry this year and I am very excited to start a career in psychiatry. I have applied to 54 programs, but I would love to add more.

*** if a programs lists a certain number of attempts on their website, is this a final decision on who they would take? Even if you show significant interest in psych and multiple psych LORs and usce with electives in psych? Thanks so much for any input.

-desperate

You'll probably get interviews at some of the places you list, but you're competing with a LOT of people with similar profiles, I'm afraid. What's going to make you stand out? DO you have a kickin' LOR or a great job experience, or can you make your brilliant personality shine through your personal statement? DO you have a strong personal connection to someplace geographically? That's what's going to pull you out of the dregs of ERAS.

 

[gynosquad]

Thank you to those who replied. I do have a passing CK score now. I believe my personal statement was somewhat witty and meaningful. I don't know if my passing step 3 would make a difference this year since I would probably need to give myself a solid 6 months or so to pass it (given my history with CK). If I don't match this year I will need to do that for the next round. I graduated this summer, but I haven't had the opportunity to do any psych observerships or anything since then. My LORs are from my internal medicine preceptor, psych doc at a cleveland state hospital, and then one from a child psychiatrist in Ohio as well. Thanks for all of your insight, I will take it into consideration.

 

[eastcoastdr]

Hi there,

please ignore my handle, it was a funny word I saw on Grey's Anatomy. I am applying to only psych programs (apparently most people use psych as a back up), and I am EXTREMELY desperate to match this year. I graduated from a caribbean school, I was born and raised in Oregon, and I have horrible board scores, and 2 failed attempts on CK. I already know that I'm not going to a top 25 psych program, and I'm not applying to California or Texas (if anyone knows if it's rubbish that IMGs shouldn't apply here, please let me know). If anyone knows of programs that are known for taking people with low scores, please please please let me know. I don't want to be left high and dry this year and I am very excited to start a career in psychiatry. I have applied to 54 programs, but I would love to add more.

*** if a programs lists a certain number of attempts on their website, is this a final decision on who they would take? Even if you show significant interest in psych and multiple psych LORs and usce with electives in psych? Thanks so much for any input.

-desperate

I would think now is the time to reach out to any connections you may have in psychiatry... PDs/attendings you worked with. Did you do well in your clerkship? Maybe you could email the PD at that program and explain your story.

 

[psychogenic]

Step 1: 202 first attempt
Step 2 CK: 210 first attempt
Step 2 CS: Pass
School: A nice midwestern place (MD)
Class Rank: Bottom quartile
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych, Honors in Sub-I (inpatient psych),Near Honors in Family Medicine, Near Honors in Neurology, Satisfactory everywhere else
AOA: No, but did get Gold Humanism Honor Society Nod
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or pubs. Led the Psych Group and participate in a mentoring program for struggling students
Red Flags: Received a 'marginal' grade in a first-year class after flunking the final exam due in part to family crisis. Retook the final exam and received a satisfactory grade (but the marginal is still noted on my transcript next to it).
Overview of where you want to end up: West Coast place with a large population (due to husband's work and family)

Only have one interview now, but am well-liked by my institution. I obviously have low Step 1 and Step 2. I just got my Step 2 score. Should I go ahead and send the updated transcript to schools, seeing as how my score mildly improved (although the tests aren't really equivalent and my margin of passing on Step 2 was actually less than Step 1)?

 

[shan564]

Step 1: 202 first attempt
Step 2 CK: 210 first attempt
Step 2 CS: Pass
School: A nice midwestern place (MD)
Class Rank: Bottom quartile
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych, Honors in Sub-I (inpatient psych),Near Honors in Family Medicine, Near Honors in Neurology, Satisfactory everywhere else
AOA: No, but did get Gold Humanism Honor Society Nod
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or pubs. Led the Psych Group and participate in a mentoring program for struggling students
Red Flags: Received a 'marginal' grade in a first-year class after flunking the final exam due in part to family crisis. Retook the final exam and received a satisfactory grade (but the marginal is still noted on my transcript next to it).
Overview of where you want to end up: West Coast place with a large population (due to husband's work and family)

Only have one interview now, but am well-liked by my institution. I obviously have low Step 1 and Step 2. I just got my Step 2 score. Should I go ahead and send the updated transcript to schools, seeing as how my score mildly improved (although the tests aren't really equivalent and my margin of passing on Step 2 was actually less than Step 1)?

Yes, release Step 2. I think that your Step 1 score might raise concerns over whether you'd pass Step 2, so the Step 2 score can only help. I think the only reason to withhold a Step 2 score is if it's a big drop from Step 1. Otherwise, it's always good to give them more evidence that you'll be ready to go on day 1.

 

[shower14]

Step 1: 208 first attempt
Step 2 CK: 234 first attempt
Step 2 CS: Taking it soon
School: Top 50 Med School US Allopathic
Class Rank: Does not rank
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in OB, High Passes in everything else except for pediatrics (pass)
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or pubs. Participated in some med school activities throughout the four year, research the year before med school
Red Flags: None
Overview of where you want to end up: East Coast- good program with good training (not shooting for ivies).

 

[psychogenic]

Yes, release Step 2. I think that your Step 1 score might raise concerns over whether you'd pass Step 2, so the Step 2 score can only help. I think the only reason to withhold a Step 2 score is if it's a big drop from Step 1. Otherwise, it's always good to give them more evidence that you'll be ready to go on day 1.

Thanks for the advice! I'll go ahead and push the little button. As far as my chances for the West Coast go, what do you think?

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks for the advice! I'll go ahead and push the little button. As far as my chances for the West Coast go, what do you think?

Did you apply UCLA-SFV, UCSF-Fresno, Kern, USC, Loma Linda, and Visalia? Those are the top bets that come to mind off the top of my head.

 

[MonsterHospital]

-

 

[nata723]

.

 

[Firewood]

Hello everyone,

Just wondering how much a leave of absence is a red flag. I took a 1.5-year leave of absence for a medical reason, now under control. I don't anticipate it causing any problems during residency, such as needing to take another leave. Thanks a lot for your input.

I took 6 months off for medical reasons and didn't have any issues. I was open about the illness, though. A lot will depend on your specific situation. Your advisors may be the best ones to ask about this if you don't feel comfortable posting. I'm sure a pm to one of the attendings here would also get you some good advice without being too publicly revealing.

Good luck!

 

[rkaz]

This varies based on the applicant and the program. Some programs will maintain radio silence. Others have the PD telephoning. I got some form of unsolicited "we like you and hope you'll rank us highly" communications from about half the schools I interviewed at, but in full disclosure I interviewed very regionally.

Also, don't let yourself be swayed too much when the time comes and you get these sort of messages. It's nice to be liked & wanted, but just because another program doesn't do this doesn't mean you won't match there.

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my question. I was actually referring to 'ranked to match' emails, which I thought were different than 'we like you' emails, as I thought the former actually meant that the program was going to put you at the top of their list (i.e. if they had 6 positions total, then you would be ranked 1-6). I presumed 'ranked to match' mean that you were in their top positions, not just somewhere on their rank list. So I was curious to know how often if was that programs did that, as I feel that 'ranked to match' carries a lot more weight than 'we like you' (presuming that I'm interpreting the meaning of 'ranked to match' correctly).

But yes, you are very correct that applicants should not put too much stock into those 'we like you' emails. We even got some warning emails from ERAS telling us not to be swayed by any emails from PD telling us that they liked us. I don't know why ERAS felt the need to warn applicants... but I suppose this may have caused some kind of issue with applicants in the past having unfulfilled expectations.