Official 2014 Rank Order List & "Help Me Rank" Thread

Discussion in 'Psychiatry' started by Fenster, 01.14.14.

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  1. Fenster

    Fenster Call me Fred

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    So, it's almost January 15, the day the rank order list opens for entry, and the number of new threads requesting comparisons of programs and help with the rank list are increasing by the week. Exciting times indeed! But how about consolidating all such questions to this one thread? That way, it'll be easier for others looking for similar information to find them, this year and in the future.

    Feel free also to share your rank lists in this thread once you've finalized them. If possible, include a short write-up about the reasoning behind your choices. It's always nice to read those things! As a reminder, the last date to certify the ROL is Wednesday, February 26, 2014. Good luck to everyone heading into the match this year!

    P.S. Although I don't see why one would want to do this, if you want to post your questions or your rank list anonymously, as with the review thread, you can PM me.
     
    Last edited: 01.14.14
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  3. Silver907

    Silver907

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    Theses are my tops... Can't choose a number one.

    UCLA-Semel, MGH/McLean, Columbia
     
  4. rkaz

    rkaz 7+ Year Member

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    Here are 3-4 programs I'm having a hard time with:
    -Case Western UH, Medical College of Wisconsin, UTHSC-San Antonio (and possibly also Ohio State University).

    I know these are all very good programs, but it's hard to tell from interview day which ones have the superior education and training. Also, I have only stayed a day at these places, so don't have a huge feel for the city life or how much I'd enjoy living there. I'm (ideally) looking for a large city, fun for singles, good (warm) weather, new agey crowd (yoga studios, vegan restaurants, etc), parks and hills to walk outdoors. None of these places fit the bill entirely, and I didn't get any interviews in California unfortunately (darn it!). But I know I'll be trained well clinically at the above places. Case UH also has electives that I am really interested in. I'd also like a place that has strong psychotherapy.

    If I'm going with proximity to family and warm weather, I may also add in Arizona programs into the top of this list (Univ of AZ/ Banner Good Sam, Maricopa). I keep flipping back and forth between prioritizing program versus prioritizing location, so it's really confusing.
     
    Last edited: 01.15.14
  5. Psychedelicious

    Psychedelicious

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    Redacted because I've come to realize my information here was not entirely accurate.
     
    Last edited: 03.18.14
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  6. Psychedelicious

    Psychedelicious

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    My "help me" request is more for the bottom of my rank list. This is regarding University of Maryland / Sheppard-Pratt, OHSU and my home program that I can't name.

    The problem with UMD/Sheppard-Pratt is that the residents work too damn hard. The call schedule seems to be brutal (as there are only 2-3 residents at once in each site) and the work harder than even the notoriously hardworking programs like Duke and Emory.

    The problem with OHSU is also that the residents work too hard. But compounding this are lackluster PD, and "average" training.

    Sheppard-Pratt and OHSU are in cities that don't tickle my fancy (Baltimore is too dangerous for me, and Portland too boring) whereas I love the city my program is in. I'm 100% sure that I will be ranked at the top at my home program. BUT, my program does not have the in-state "name brand" recognition that OHSU has in Portland or UMD has in Maryland because it is one of the many programs in the state (that also has some of the top programs in the country). I do not know where I want to spend the rest of my life in, but if my life so far is any indication I'd hesitate to move again after residency so I want to choose correctly now.

    Should I go with my gut and rank my home program above OHSU and UMD essentially eliminating them from my rank list or should I bite my tongue and endure the four years so I can find in-state jobs easier after graduation?
     
  7. Fenster

    Fenster Call me Fred

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    I think you already know the answer to your question. Are you looking for validation? If so, yes, go with whatever would make you happy, a.k.a. your gut.
     
  8. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Why are you even asking? You don't want to be in those places, don't rank them.
     
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  9. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I'm largely unfamiliar with these programs, but I've consistently heard good things about MCW -- it sounds like it's especially a good place to be for psychotherapy training. I have no clue about Milwaukee, but I might rather live there than San Antonio, which is warm but probably limited in vegan restaurants, etc.

    Here's how I solve these dilemmas -- I think about what would make me most sad to pass up.
     
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  10. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Yes, please. If you hate a place, you don't want to be there. It doesn't sound like Psychedelicious would want work opportunities in say Oregon anyway.
     
  11. VMSmith

    VMSmith 7+ Year Member

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    If you've decided you wouldn't want to live in either Portland or Baltimore (the two biggest cities in each respective state), why would you be worried about finding in state jobs after graduation from residency? Especially since you find Portland boring? Not sure what you expect to find in the smaller cities and towns in Oregon and Maryland.

    I agree with the other posters. You've already made up your mind, there's not really any dilemma you're presenting other than your home program being less prestigious than the other two choices.

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
     
  12. VMSmith

    VMSmith 7+ Year Member

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    If those are your choices and nothing pops out at you to put one program over the others, then I think it does come down to where you want to live.

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
     
  13. InanelyHighNut

    InanelyHighNut Hungry 2+ Year Member

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    While I'm not done with interviews yet, I'm pretty sure about my top 5. I'll elaborate more later.

    UNC
    Duke
    UTSW
    UAB
    Emory

    Despite my background, ethnicity, and political views, for some reason I'm going to stay in the South (hopefully).
     
  14. Psychedelicious

    Psychedelicious

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    Thanks for all the responses. I'll rank my home program higher.

    Since you've not provided any specifics on what you are looking for in a program, I'll rate them based on their reputation, location and the quality of training based on my impressions:
    1. UNC
    2. Duke
    3. Emory
    4. UTSW
    I've left out UAB because I do not know the program personally apart from the fact that it has a great reputation in the south. Maybe they are better than all four above, maybe they are not. I don't know.

    Also, remember that you will work hard in Duke and Emory in the first two years, but still not as hard as UTSW or some other programs I'd visited, while also having a fantastic national reputation. Maybe things had changed in the recent years but I didn't meet any "tired" residents at either Duke or Emory.
     
  15. InanelyHighNut

    InanelyHighNut Hungry 2+ Year Member

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    Dear Psychedelicious,

    Thank you for your impressions. As for "tired" residents, I did happen to meet one during my Emory interview. He was an intern and had just come off of night float so that's probably a strong confounding element. I really didn't not like the traffic in Atlanta however. It took me 50 minutes door-to-door from Grady Hospital and Emory. They are about only nine miles apart.

    I thought UAB was an exceptional program in a place most people think they don't want to live (my partner included). It is really her influence that affects most of my rank list. If I were matching alone, I would probably say screw it, I'm going to Albuquerque. Edit: UAB might be #2 if I were alone. I'm mostly location biased towards places with amazing rock climbing nearby.
     
  16. Bluemirage

    Bluemirage Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    I feel obligated to respond to this post to prevent misinformation being disseminated about my home program on this message board. I am currently a senior resident at the University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt residency program. The comment in your post about only having 2-3 residents in each site for taking call is inaccurate. We will be taking a total of 16 residents PGY-1's this year (1-2 more spots compared to previous years) and the call will be roughly Q6-Q7 on average. I do not believe this is working too hard considering many residents work
    Q3-Q4 in other specialties and in some psychiatry programs. I think the workload is pretty reasonable given that we have a nationally ranked, world-class psychiatric hospital in our system. However, when you are on call, you do work hard and residents are given a high level of responsibility (but always under supervision) to ensure that they are able to function independently and make good decisions early. In addition, Baltimore like any big city, has clusters of dangerous areas. Unless you are looking for trouble or deliberately going to drug-infested neighborhoods, there is never any reason for you to visit these areas. I have never once felt like I was in danger living in Baltimore. It is the most affordable major East Coast city and has advantages of being only 1 hour away from Washington DC, 3 hours from Philadelphia and 4 hours from NYC with direct flights to almost any city in the US. If you or any other readers have any questions about our program, please do not hesitate to either privately message me on this board or contact your resident of the day that did your interview tour. Best of luck to all applicants this season!
     
  17. Psychedelicious

    Psychedelicious

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    Thank you for clarifying the average call schedule. I was referring more to the fact that there are only a few residents at each of the sites making the call schedules more brutal. My information was naturally from the residents I spoke to during my interview day who said that the call ranges from Q6-7 at some sites to Q3-4 or sometimes even Q2-3. If it'll be an average of Q6-7 overall with the additional 1 or 2 spots this year, it would not be as bad then, but it would still be on the more difficult end of the spectrum as far as psychiatry programs go, especially with the calls themselves being hard.

    That is great. What did you like about UAB so much though? I'm just curious. You can message me privately if you want.
     
  18. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Agreed. I go to what's considered a call-heavy program, and Q6-7 call for psychiatry is definitely on the heavy end of the spectrum.

    That's not a reason to not rank a problem. I'm much happier than if I'd gone to a light call program, but it is something worth taking into account as you decide on what program is right for you.
     
  19. GCB80

    GCB80 2+ Year Member

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    Hey guys great thread!!

    #1 will be UCLA-Harbor since I'm from Cali. Need help with rest of list among these places. Location doesn't matter if I don't get my number #1. I'm looking for some place that will have good well-rounded training in psychotherapy and psychopharm and somewhere that will open doors for the future. Please rank:

    Ohio State (good impression here)
    UConn
    MCW
    UMass
    OHSU (close to Cali)
    U of South Florida (love sunny FL but location isn't that imp)
    Harvard Southshore (don't care that it's mostly VA since I love that population)
    U of Maryland
     
    Last edited: 01.16.14
  20. Nasrudin

    Nasrudin Apropos of Nothing 10+ Year Member

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    Hmmmm....I still think your criteria is widely available such that you should consider location. You have a great list of programs. I remember, just anecdotally, some nice juicy favorable gossip about MCW. But that Canadian winters to the face for 4 years. I mean. Your list is all over the place location wise. I find it strange that someone could be that locationally neutral. But...I suppose if you say so. Maybe you'll get lucky with a poster from the actual programs, otherwise I can't see the point of these threads. Besides the fun of them.
     
  21. SmallBird

    SmallBird 5+ Year Member

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    I can't offer comprehensive advice but I think you are right to not worry about HSS being mainly at the VA - my sense when I interviewed there was that they had an impressive variety of training sites anyway.
     
  22. moonshined

    moonshined

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    .
     
    Last edited: 03.20.14
  23. GCB80

    GCB80 2+ Year Member

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    Thank you for the feedback. Location isn't crucial b/c I'm in my 20's and unattached and have family all over the country so I can handle anything for 4 yrs. I got the best feeling about Ohio so I do think that will be my #2. Any particular reason UConn, UMass, and USF should be rannked over HSS? I'm curious because I am drawn to that Harvard diploma. Are the other 3 that much better? @SmallBird, I got the sense that their training sites were everywhere too. As to Portland, I spent a lot of summers in Portland so I think I could be happy there. It's not Cali but it's nice.
     
  24. Nasrudin

    Nasrudin Apropos of Nothing 10+ Year Member

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    With regards to the land of Portland and it's similitude idk what people mean when they say Cali as whole. My big discovery of the interview trail was how ridiculous my self identification with the entire west coast was. I felt completely out of place in LA. That place makes no f'n sense to me. I feel like I was part of human natural museum. Driving around in an exhibit titled "Church of the Automobile," part of a long extinct species. I like San Francisco, but not the Bay Area besides some of the east and north bay. And maybe Sonoma. The valley is where my vegetables came from. Parts of big sur are fascinating but uninhabited. Then the epic distances to LA and Portland. Different planets. Different people, cultures, radically different urban plans. Etc.

    NYC felt like a hot cousin of SF. Dirtier, faster, trashier, sexier, and more exciting. I no longer understand the bicoastal paradigm. I'm a citizen of city states. Except that I'm in love with this program in a sedate pastoral setting. Damn.

    I feel your struggle. My point is just the mazes of subjective personal criteria are too unique to be solicited unless you discover things dialectically.
     
    Last edited: 01.16.14
  25. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I'm puzzled by the UMass and UConn thing as well and why they would be placed over HSS. I'm sure they're fine programs, but in less you particularly liked them or their location, I don't know why they would go the top.

    Portland does have awesome summers and is closer to California than the others. They're also lots of Californians here, even though we like to say bad things about them, so yeah. UMD is a well known program, so that also gives you some name stuff. MCW has always sounded really nice to me, too -- I think it's a place that really emphasizes psychotherapy training. Is Milwaukee that much colder than Columbus?

    BTW, what's so awesome about Ohio State? It seems well liked in this thread, and it's a program I haven't heard much about. Maybe post a review of it in the review thread -- I doubt it's been reviewed in a long time.
     
  26. Fenster

    Fenster Call me Fred

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    There was one just last year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2012-2013-psych-interview-reviews.957418/

    Look for the second review by Dr. Toaster as the new forum software had gobbled up the post titles mentioning the program names.
     
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  27. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    No.

    I'm a (non-self-interested) fan of MCW--know and like several of their faculty.
    Milwaukee might not be the greatest midwestern city out there, but it's no Cleveland or Detroit either.

    Personally, I don't get the hyper-consternation about weather on this forum. New England and NYC have crappy winter weather too. Milwaukee has miles of beautiful sandy beaches 8 months of the year. No hurricanes, no earthquakes....
     
  28. Nasrudin

    Nasrudin Apropos of Nothing 10+ Year Member

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    Hmmmm? But I thought according to your strength of NCAA football program rating that the buckeyes would be the clear victor here? But I guess you gotta go with your buddies. I get it.
     
  29. Leo Aquarius

    Leo Aquarius Anxiety.org Schizophrenia.com DepressionHealth.net 2+ Year Member

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    MGH >> Columbia > UCLA-Semel

    That's how I would rank them. Harvard MGH has incredible resources with the creme de la creme reputation that will open huge doors for you. The program will let you cater your training in so many ways, and will give you access to leaders and pioneers in psychiatry.

    The thing you should be cautious of at UCLA-Semel is something that isn't talked about much. In West LA and Beverly Hills you have extremely sensitive and litiginous-conscious families of patients. What residents face are families and/or patients bringing their lawyers with them, and suddenly the resident is caught in a patient-lawyer-doctor relationship at every turn. The result is tons of paperwork, and an annoying fear that a few residents have talked about.

    Columbia is great program overall.

    By the way, you're going to work really hard at all three. I warned you.
     
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  30. Leo Aquarius

    Leo Aquarius Anxiety.org Schizophrenia.com DepressionHealth.net 2+ Year Member

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    Solid choice. You will get the UCLA name with a good work-life balance, excellent patient contact, a top reputation in SoCal, and enjoy access to the specialty clinics at UCLA-Semel in your 4th year if you want. At community programs such as this the patients thank you at the end of the day.

    My sphere is California really; sorry I don't know enough about the rest of your programs to comment or rank.
     
    Last edited: 01.16.14
  31. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Buckeyes finished the year 0-2. :soexcited:
    Anyway, it's BB season now...MCW used to be Marquette Medical School. You do the math.

    In all seriousness, though, MCW is a very fine program. OSU psychiatry is good also. Columbus might be a better town to raise a family in, but there are plenty of nice areas in Milwaukee too. And summers on Lake Michigan make the winter worth enduring. Spring and fall are pretty darn nice as well.
     
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  32. Nasrudin

    Nasrudin Apropos of Nothing 10+ Year Member

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    Yeah I have pictures of me as a baby with my parents racing their hobie cat in the lakes up there. It does seem really nice. What goes into how and where you imagine and then live out your life seems a bit accidental. The blizzard of 79 sent my Floridian parents fleeing the upper Midwest and me with them. Could've been different.
     
    Last edited: 01.16.14
  33. rkaz

    rkaz 7+ Year Member

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    Ok, so I have another question.... I thought about starting a new thread about my question, but I'd rather not clutter this forum with more applicant questions, if you all can answer it here:

    How likely is it to get a spot in the SOAP? Is it much more competitive than getting interviews in the match?

    I was planning on attending 16 interviews. If there are 2 programs I am not too fond of (either because I don't like the program or the city), would I be better off just ranking 14, and taking my chances to hopefully get a better program than those 2 I cut out, if I ended up having to SOAP? Or would I be kicking myself later for not ranking the last 2, since getting something in the SOAP is highly unlikely? Just wondering. I know I'll probably be in good position even with 14 rankings, but since I have paid exorbitantly for travel at 16 places, I'd at least like to get the most out of it, and not hurt myself unnecessarily by not ranking a program. Thanks!
     
  34. jackson1

    jackson1 7+ Year Member

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    I'm not sure about the competitiveness of the SOAP, but if you look at NRMP data there's virtually no chance you won't match with 14 schools ranked. The percentage of matched applicants reaches almost 100% at about 9 matches.

    Would you be happy at those 2 last programs? If you really didn't like them, I would say don't rank them and take your chances with the SOAP (not that you'll have to).
     
  35. OldPsychDoc

    OldPsychDoc Senior Curmudgeon Moderator Emeritus SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    You only hurt yourself having a program on your rank list if you really don't want to go there, or if you rank one you perceive as a "safety" program above a program you truly want.
     
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  36. silverliningsplaybook

    silverliningsplaybook 2+ Year Member

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    I interviewed at 10 programs and am thinking of canceling my last two interviews at the end of the month. I am from New England but I am always happy to visit SoCal. I appreciate any comments on the following programs to rank:

    UVM
    UMass
    Tufts
    Cambridge
    Brown
    Indiana
    UCLA-Harbor
    UCSD
    USC
    Utah
     
  37. VMSmith

    VMSmith 7+ Year Member

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    Do you have any particular interests within psychiatry? Research? Preferences in terms of type of clinical setting or population? Interest in particular psychotherapies?

    The programs you listed are quite different from each other, not just in terms of geography.
     
  38. silverliningsplaybook

    silverliningsplaybook 2+ Year Member

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    Potential future plans: CAP fellowship, outpatient, maybe research/academics
     
  39. shinystar2014

    shinystar2014

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    Would appreciate any thoughts on my program choices now that I am done with interviewing!

    My interests: Academic medicine, child psychiatry, medically complicated patients with psychiatric illnesses/integrated care/CL

    Programs (in no particular order)

    University of Washington
    Pros:
    - Probably the best in the country in terms of integrative care
    - Only psychiatry residency program in 5 states so see tons of really interesting cases
    - SEATTLE! Seems like a great place to live
    - Seattle Children's is amazing
    - Alaska opportunity during PGY4 sounds like a great experience

    Cons:
    - Didn't feel like I would fit in with the residents (didn't connect with any during interview day and felt like they were more outdoorsy than me)
    - 3 weeks of vacation vs. everywhere else where there is 4
    - Night float heavy schedule

    Yale
    Pros:
    - Child Study Center
    - Innovative didactics
    - Lots of protected elective time
    - Very academic feel
    - Free standing psychiatric hospital
    - Innovative approach to screening every inpatient for any psychiatric need during admission
    - Can do all of outpatient therapy at Student Health for young adult population

    Cons:
    - NEW HAVEN, while the town was certainly cute and the cost of living was great (especially with the salary), I cannot imagine choosing to move to New Haven. Having lived in very large cities for almost a decade, I'm not sure I would enjoy the switch. I'm concerned this would negate all the pros.

    Harvard Longwood
    Pros:
    - AMAZING hospitals in the Longwood medical area including Boston Children's
    - Boston seems like a great place to live
    - Residents seem very happy
    - Access to everything Harvard has to offer and seemingly lots of benefits by being in the larger Partners system
    - Good amount of elective time
    - Ability to learn psychiatry in a variety of settings with a variety of different patients

    Cons:
    - Within a city of many other psychiatry residents (and many Harvard psychiatry residents), question if there is competition for different opportunities?
    - Concerned that the system is so large it's easy to get "lost"
    - Known for having one of the poorer work-life balances in psych residency (from what I hear)

    Hopkins
    Pros:
    - Very thoughtful and unique approach to psychiatry and patients
    - Very specialized services with many psychiatric beds, manageable psych CAP for residents
    - ALL attendings attend on the wards, from the most famous to the newest faculty so learning 1:1 from experts
    - Stress the importance of medicine (for some the very medicine heavy PGY1 year and the IVs on the units are scary, for me they are awesome!) and the concept of being a physician who specializes in mental illness
    - Residents I met all seemed really happy and really happy about their choice. Seem to like each other (did not seem malignant at all, like I feared)
    - Excellent post graduation plans
    - Loved their philosophy on teaching with bringing in patients and teaching everyone together (very different than everywhere else)

    Cons:
    - Baltimore, which isn't as terrible as New Haven but not as great as Boston or Seattle. Probably manageable given the nice areas, but not ideal.
    - Concern about work-life balance (notorious for being a very hard working program)
    - Concern about being trapped in the "Hopkins bubble" way of doing things and skills not transferable elsewhere
    - Overnight calls q13 as PGY2 (not sure if this is a con versus a month of night float...haven't decided yet which I prefer)
    - Therapy training? Not a huge deal for me but I want to be reassured I will be a competent psychiatrist in all modalities when I leave residency.
     
  40. Soggun

    Soggun 7+ Year Member

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    I don't want to comment on the other programs because I'm not there and while I did interview at UWashington, my knowledge of that program is quite limited and I did not look at Hopkins or Yale during my application process... That being said...

    I think your pros about the residents being happy here and Boston being a great city (this pains me to say, as I'm a New Yorker by birth) are both very accurate. My perception is that we may have a bit heavier of a workload than other psych programs, but I think it's very manageable and that part of the reason myself and my co-residents are so happy here is not just because of the great learning opportunities, diversity of clinical exposure, and education (although that is true), but also because so many of us have outside interests that we can and do endulge in on a regular basis - and often with co-residents.

    The other cons I feel obliged to comment on also because they surprise me a bit. I guess I understand the concerns you're expressing, it just hasnt been my experience here at all. Even within Longwood the diversity of different opportunities is absolutely gigantic (such that it seems rare people really need to leave the system for a particular interest). Beyond that, when it does occur, it seems like folks I know who have looked for specific research opporunities or clinical experiences around the city have been able to find it at other institutions (MGH and MIT being specific examples I know of). When we don't have opportunities for a person's specific interests, my impression is that faculty will work with you to find someone doing something in that field elsewhere - so I wouldn't worry too much about competition for opportunities.

    Similarly, while the program is large, it still feels very close and intimate. I can't put my finger on why that is other than that folks just seem personable and genuinely interested in each others' well-being. It seems like the only people that might be considered to get "lost" in the system are people who withdraw on their own, which in my experience seems to be when folks choose to live far away, start having children, and spending less time with classmates, etc.... And it's not like those folks aren't being invited when we spend time together, seems to be more of their own volition - and again, this is a small minority of folks here.

    Anyway, I'm very clearly biased and I feel strongly about the program, but I think that also speaks to the strength of the program. It's not for everyone, I know... But I'm awfully glad I chose to come here. Feel free to PM me if you have specific further questions.
     
  41. splik

    splik 7+ Year Member

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    First of all congrats on interviewing at all these great programs. I am certain that any one of these programs will give you great opportunities. I also had an interest in C/L and medical aspects of psychiatry so can speak to that. I don't really know that much about child psychiatry.

    It sounds like you liked UW the most, then Longwood, then Hopkins, then Yale. It sounds like location is very important to you and that has influenced this order. UW is the #1 place far and away for IntegratTED (rather than integrative*) care, and in particular has rolled out the collaborative care model across the country, and now in the developing world. The entire department's primary research focus is on health services research and the clinical services at the UW are around this sort of model. The C/L requirements of 5-6months are more than any other program (includes all the different hospitals, and outpatient consultation), and many residents elect more. Outpatient C/L includes psycho-oncology, HIV, women's health, maternal infant care, pain, cardiology, family medicine, diabetes, general medicine, epilepsy, geriatric medicine, internal medicine, international medicine clinic etc. There is also the fairly unique opportunity to do child C/L as a psychiatry resident if that is your thing. There is a specific integrated care pathway for residents interested in carving out a career in this sort of thing, as well as a research and teaching scholar's pathways for those interested in academics. It is also the only one of the programs mentioned about that will let you have a month of elective time for academic pursuits in intern year (and nothing to stop you making a vacation of it). You are also allowed a MINIMUM of 1 week educational leave a year (I actually have 4 weeks educational leave in addition to vacation as a PGY-2).

    The schedule isn't night float heavy (there are 2-3 weeks in PGY-1 year, and 6 weeks in PGY-2). This is less than at Longwood I think or about the same. Also night float is MUCH better than non-nightfloat and you can split it up however you like - i.e. do a week at a time, or three weeks at a time, and have a say in when you would like to do it. From PGY-2 nightfloat is HOME CALL and 40% of the time you dont get called in. sometimes you don't even get paged. at all.

    Partly because it is the only residency in town and for 5 states there is the largest array of elective opportunities beginning PGY-3 of any of these programs.

    It is true that many residents are outdoorsy and like climbing, camping, kayaking, doing triathalons etc but there are also more indoor creatures and those who just like to get fat at the many great restaurants, drink craft cocktails at the bars, watch random movies (SIFF is the largest film festival in north america), go to the theatre, enjoy the parks, explore the bookstores, lounge around drinking coffee etc.

    I think Longwood is a great program and has an excellent C/L service and training though it is less than at UW and only at BWH. I like David Gitlin who runs the C/L service there. Boston is also a great city. I think they do work harder than the UW residents. I think your concern about competition for resources is baseless - there is NO competition between residents at different programs, they are mostly their own entity. Also the faculty, busy as they are are very happy to meet with you and discuss research opportunities etc. At least this was my experience and I wasn't even a Longwood resident. They do have less elective time than other programs, and the PGY-3 year is not all outpatient and has consults, geriatrics etc built in, and there is something to be said to having a full-immersion consults experience which they don't have.

    I personally think that Hopkins offers the best clinical training in the country for psychiatry and offers the widest array of basic training including eating disorders, pain, neuropsychiatry, paraphilias as part of the standard training of psychiatrists. I think you will find your concerns baseless about the training not translating elsewhere, on the contrary you get an excellent training that is well respected everywhere. I put them last on my rank list however because 1) it's in Baltimore; 2) they work REALLY HARD; 3) they are very inflexible in their training model, with only 6months of elective time; 4) they have too much of a bio-behavioral model. It is true that psychodynamic therapy is de-emphasized, but in reality NO program is going to train you to be truly competent as a psychotherapist as part of the core curriculum and you will have to elect further training if this is what you want to do. The other criticism I have heard is they pander to the rich and despite admitting patients from the deprived surrounding area the level of care they offer is not uniform, which is to say those who can't pay don't get as good care which can be uncomfortable when you have all these patients in the same setting.

    I think Yale is a wonderful program and they have made all sorts of changes to make themselves more attractive to residents as they had historically struggled to get the caliber of residents they wanted (such as increasing the pay, cutting call, sponsoring H1 visas). C/L psychiatry is weak here for an academic department, and although they are working on this with Paul Desan who was recruited a few years ago, it is marginalized within the department. Like you say for many people, myself included, New Haven negates many of the positives on offer, and is why they had a hard time getting the residents one might associated with a 'big name' like Yale. There a few better places to launch an academic career (if by this you mean research) however give the deep bench, ridiculous amount of federal and private funding trickling through, and large number of researchers here.

    *integrative care is about homoeopathy/acupuncture etc!
     
  42. okayhunny

    okayhunny

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    6
    Hey guys,

    This is my first post on sdn and I am reaching out to you because I am in major need of advice. I interviewed at 20 schools (I know excessive, but I was having fun traveling) and I have no idea how to rank them. I am looking for a school in a great location (preferably a big city/my parents live in NYC) with excellent training. I am interested in psychotherapy and academics. In no particular order:

    Albert Einstein
    UMD
    UNC
    Mount Sinai
    University at Buffalo
    Tufts
    Boston University
    University of Rochester
    UTSW
    Baylor
    UCLA-San Fernando Valley
    Rush
    University of Chicago
    Mayo Clinic
    Emory
    St. Luke's-Roosevelt
    Georgetown
    North Shore-LIJ
    UIC
    Beth Israel (NYC)

    Some of these schools are in great locations, but I'm worried about the quality of training. And some of these schools have big names, but I don't want to work really hard.

    If someone could please take a stab at ranking these for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!!
     
  43. SmallBird

    SmallBird 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Resident [Any Field]
    Great post, although there are two points I don't necessarily agree with - firstly, I don't see evidence of Yale being unable to get the 'caliber of residents they wanted'. Our class had 7 out of 12 MD,PhD's last year, and whatever that says it is not consistent with any challenge in terms of recruitment. Also, regarding the C/L service, this may have been the case in the past but this has recently become a massive focus for the department, with recruitment of several additional faculty (including Dr Ben Lee from Hopkins), the construction of a new wing for the C/L department, and the development of several specialized teams within the service. This is part of a broader expansion of the practice which includes the recent opening of an observation unit to reduce hospitalization and several new intensive outpatient programs. This is all new since the time I interviewed and is pretty exciting.

    I am very happy in New Haven, have everything I could want living here, although it does appear to not be everyone's favorite location.

    Good luck shinystar, seems you have a lot of great options!
     
    Last edited: 01.19.14
  44. Psychotic

    Psychotic 2+ Year Member

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    Ummmm...really? This looks more like a first stab at an app list (for next season, perhaps?), not what you are representing (that you have interviewed at all of these and need help ranking, top to bottom).

    Nobody can properly advise you on how to rank all the programs in this list based on what you have revealed. At a minimum you need to offer a preliminary ranking - the most that anybody can offer is minor tweaks (like a comparison of SLR and BIMC).

    And a pet peeve of mine: you are asking about residency programs, not "schools." You are presumably in medical school now.

    Ranking is highly subjective, a very personal thing. Although lots of folks do it (and I like to read it), I don't really "get" asking strangers on an internet forum for help ranking programs after the interview, but I do understand doing research on programs pre app and even asking for opinions in building an app list.

    With all due respect if you actually interviewed at all of those programs, you could have saved yourself a lot of time and money with a more focused app list.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: 01.19.14
  45. okayhunny

    okayhunny

    Joined:
    01.19.14
    Messages:
    6
    Hey! Thank you for responding. I actually did interview at all of these programs (thanks for the correction) and just finished my last interview this past Friday. If I could rephrase my question…I was hoping someone could summarize which programs on my list are the ones that residents work really hard at and which programs on my list have lesser quality training. I would also be interested in a comparison between BIMC and University of Chicago. Hopefully that is easier! Thanks again.
     
  46. Fenster

    Fenster Call me Fred

    Joined:
    03.30.13
    Messages:
    164
    From your list, I know for a fact that residents work really hard at Baylor and UMD whereas it is the exact opposite at Albert Einstein.

    Most of the other programs, as far as I know, fall somewhere in between, with Emory probably closer to Baylor and UMD than to Albert Einstein. Sorry, I wish I could be more helpful. Hopefully someone very familiar with all those programs will.
     
  47. Psychotic

    Psychotic 2+ Year Member

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    Do searches on the University of Chicago - I have no personal experience - but it is a widely reviled program on SDN, and a perfect example of the fallacy of interviewing at "big name schools" where the reputation of the undergrad and medical school doesn't carry over to specific residency programs.

    Rumor is Emory is a "hard work" program, but again I have no personal experience. Baylor too, maybe? I know I have read less than glowing reviews of Baylor on SDN.

    I interviewed at only a couple of programs on your list, and I could not begin to tell you how you should rank them, nor could I tell you with any conviction which program is harder working, more cush, etc. In general, I only applied to and interviewed at programs with a reputation of reasonable work load / quality of life balance. A couple of exceptions, but that was my approach, to eliminate the programs with the "hard work" rep from consideration pre-app and pre-interview.
     
  48. shinystar2014

    shinystar2014

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    Actually not true at all, but interesting that's the way you perceived it! Maybe my subconscious speaking...

    Thank you so much to those of you who have taken the time to answer my post, I greatly appreciate it. The information has been very useful, I think I need to process it all and somehow figure out what the top of my ranklist will look like!
     
    Last edited: 01.19.14
  49. Psychedelicious

    Psychedelicious

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    Even though this is a big ask, I'm gonna do this for you since I like doing this sort of thing, and also because your priorities are eerily close to mine! I'm beginning to suspect most of us think very similar! Anyway, here goes:
    1. Mount Sinai
    2. Albert Einstein
    3. UNC
    4. Emory
    5. UIC
    6. North Shore-LIJ
    7. Beth Israel (NYC)
    8. St. Luke's-Roosevelt
    9. UCLA-San Fernando Valley
    10. Mayo Clinic
    11. Boston University
    12. University of Chicago
    13. UTSW
    14. Rush
    15. UMD
    16. Tufts
    17. University of Rochester
    18. Baylor
    19. University at Buffalo
    20. Georgetown
    Even though Emory has a reputation of hard work on SDN, I can confidently tell you that it isn't quite the case in reality as I investigated this thoroughly. They definitely don't work as hard as the likes of UMD or the Texas programs on your list, Baylor and UTSW, and you get very good training. But, if you only want cush residencies, push them all to the bottom of your rank list and forgo the palpitations on match day.
     
    Necator_americanus likes this.
  50. shinystar2014

    shinystar2014

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    The programs I am familiar with on your list and my impressions of them:
    - Einstein - Best way of putting this is extremely good work-life balance. This was by far the cushiest residency I experienced. For me that was actually a deterrent (I am of the mindset of working hard and learning as much as possible during residency to be prepared as an attending), but I can totally understand why others would find this attractive. This is probably your best bet if you're interested in therapy and a cushier residency. $15 for meals daily is awesome and their housing (if you're willing to live in the Bronx in dorm like housing) could not be beat ($300 a month rent!!).

    - UMD - These residents seem to work a lot and they cover a lot of different hospitals. I was pleasantly surprised by this program (more so than anywhere else). I was blown away by Sheppard Pratt, and really liked the residents and PD. Seems like a well rounded, hard working program to me, with a lot of great opportunities (Eating disorder unit, child units, etc.) because of SP. You seem to like New York, would you be willing to live in Baltimore?

    - Sinai - Also seems to be a cushier residency than others, especially in New York. Residents were really nice, but seem to have ended up at Sinai because they wanted to live in NYC not particularly because of the program. I had a lot of questions of how this program would look after the merger with SLR and BI, which concerns me enough to keep them lower on my list. They are decreasing number of inpatient beds and seems moving towards a more outpatient/day hospital model which is the exact opposite of what interests me. Seemed to have good therapy training. This would probably be a good fit for you with the attributes you expressed - not working too hard, NYC, good therapy training.

    - Emory - Multi-site residency program which is either your thing or is not. I like the opportunities of being in multiple hospital settings, but not for everyone. These residents seem to work hard, but I would guess probably not as hard as UMD. Seem to get solid training, but nothing stood out to me as being particularly unique about the program. Not a fan of Atlanta personally, not sure how you feel about it.

    Best of luck and hope this helps!
     
  51. SmallBird

    SmallBird 5+ Year Member

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    Haha, your subconscious, or splik's projection ;)
     
    shinystar2014 likes this.

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