Official: Harvard 2007
Started by Sundarban1
hi there,
i just applied to the HCP at Harvard extension. Is it feasible to complete this program in a summer and a full academic year? Does anyone have any insight on the admissions process? I could not tell much fomr their website about how selctive they are?
Thanks!
i just applied to the HCP at Harvard extension. Is it feasible to complete this program in a summer and a full academic year? Does anyone have any insight on the admissions process? I could not tell much fomr their website about how selctive they are?
Thanks!
It's been said many times, most recently by myself on the previous page of this thread, selection is based mainly on your GPA. Not many people are advised or take the 1 year route. I suggest if you have other questions you call Dr. Fixsen and ask him directly about your planned course.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I've always told people it's not advised, and I would say it's preferable to do the two year route simply because you have a lot more time to let the material sink in (referencing summer classes). That said, I can't say the course load is unworkable; I'm in my last semester of the regular track (Gen chem/physics last year, bio/orgo now), and I've worked full time throughout, as well as doing volunteer work and some outside research, and maintained a 3.8 with one semester to go.
And to clear up some admissions stuff:
1) Admissions aren't terribly competitive. At HES, they will "sponsor" your application if you meet certain criteria. The worse your incoming GPA, the higher the bar for sponsorship. Sponsorship means that for $500, the premed advisors of the Health Careers Program will act as your premed committee.At an information session I went to, Dr. Fixsen's attitude seemed to be: "who am I to tell you you can't try to get into medical school. I'll tell you you really don't have a chance, and you can do with that advice what you will".
2) You don't have to apply or be accepted to take the classes. Hell, you can get rejected and still take classes; the only thing that matters is your tuition payment. I, for example, was acccepted conditionally to the program due to a few less than stellar undergrad marks.
I am not, however, planning on using HES for sponsorship, since my alma mater will act as my committee. A little something to note is that applying and being accepted to the program will technically enroll you as a full-time student, meaning any federal student loans you have are deferred, making it a lot easier to pay for tuition. Thats certainly not to denigrate the HES committee; from what I've heard, they do an absolutely amazing job. I have the US News guide to med schools, and in the back it says something like 85 or 90% of those sponsored get into school. I'm a relatively recent grad from an area school, so it actually makes it a little easier to go through them (transcripts etc.).
3) I personally would stay away from the one year track because I don't think you get the same depth of knowledge because of the frenetic pace of summer. Besides, even with everything I've had going on, I've had a great time so far. I've met a lot of great people, had some incredible experiences, and learned a ton about myself and what I can do. You've got your whole life to be a frantic and overworked doctor, enjoy the "leisurely" pace of the premed life. The one year route will also limit the amount of time you have to build up your resume outside school, which is a really really important aspect of any nontrad's application.
Does anyone know a way to get a locker on campus? Or, for that matter, in Harvard Sq. anywhere? TIA
I'll chime in on the 1 year vs. 2 year. I'm doing the 1 year and suggest you to seriously think about what an accelerated pace of classes is going to get you time-wise. It's a lot more work for not that much of a payoff - just think about the admissions schedule. Right now, I'm stuck deciding between taking the MCAT in June w/out an orgo class so I can apply this year or take it later in the year and pretty much screw my chances of admission. Tack on the fact that you probably can't realistically do an SMP after year 1 b/c you don't have an MCAT score (GRE's are accepted, but when they have good candidates w/ MCAT's, you're not going to get in). My one year plan is looking like it's turning into a 2 year and I have absolutely no problem with that. If you enjoy the material, you'll get over that taking pre-reqs sucks and not being in med school yet sucks. You'll quickly realize that another few months isn't that big of a deal, and just continue doing what needs to be done.
Don't do it to try to save a year, because it's obviously not going to. I only did it b/c I have a low GPA & need the extra time to take more classes next year & increase my GPA as much as possible (or do an SMP). The ONLY time I would suggest it is to someone who already has a great GPA that doesn't need any work. In that case, you can definitely save a year if you can teach yourself orgo & cram for the MCAT - still no picnic.
When deciding upon amount to work, classes, etc. - also remember that most career-switchers will have to volunteer or do something clinical. It's great if you can get a research job that pays, but not realistic if you have no lab experience. MCAT classes during one semester are no picnic - 3 classes means the only one you can do is Sat/Sun from 10-4, no weekends. 🙁
I took an average of 18 hours/semester in undergrad and (VERY THANKFULLY) was convinced by our advisor to only take 12 hours here - it is not the same as undergrad. You have a lot more going on and you can't risk getting low grades, 12 hours is pretty large amount of work.
As for the person asking for an upper-div bio class - just find something you're interested in (I know it sounds lame). I have been told to avoid immuno @ all costs. I can't fit it in my schedule, or else I'd be taking bio of cancer - people are saying that's great. Physio's always interesting to the wannabe-MD. Personally, only one I could fit in my schedule is microbio and it seems like it's going to be interesting - hopefully a lot more of the "infectious disease" than the "microbiology" aspects of the title. 🙂
I'll chime in on the 1 year vs. 2 year. I'm doing the 1 year and suggest you to seriously think about what an accelerated pace of classes is going to get you time-wise. It's a lot more work for not that much of a payoff - just think about the admissions schedule. Right now, I'm stuck deciding between taking the MCAT in June w/out an orgo class so I can apply this year or take it later in the year and pretty much screw my chances of admission. Tack on the fact that you probably can't realistically do an SMP after year 1 b/c you don't have an MCAT score (GRE's are accepted, but when they have good candidates w/ MCAT's, you're not going to get in). My one year plan is looking like it's turning into a 2 year and I have absolutely no problem with that. If you enjoy the material, you'll get over that taking pre-reqs sucks and not being in med school yet sucks. You'll quickly realize that another few months isn't that big of a deal, and just continue doing what needs to be done.
Don't do it to try to save a year, because it's obviously not going to. I only did it b/c I have a low GPA & need the extra time to take more classes next year & increase my GPA as much as possible (or do an SMP). The ONLY time I would suggest it is to someone who already has a great GPA that doesn't need any work. In that case, you can definitely save a year if you can teach yourself orgo & cram for the MCAT - still no picnic.
When deciding upon amount to work, classes, etc. - also remember that most career-switchers will have to volunteer or do something clinical. It's great if you can get a research job that pays, but not realistic if you have no lab experience. MCAT classes during one semester are no picnic - 3 classes means the only one you can do is Sat/Sun from 10-4, no weekends. 🙁
I took an average of 18 hours/semester in undergrad and (VERY THANKFULLY) was convinced by our advisor to only take 12 hours here - it is not the same as undergrad. You have a lot more going on and you can't risk getting low grades, 12 hours is pretty large amount of work.
As for the person asking for an upper-div bio class - just find something you're interested in (I know it sounds lame). I have been told to avoid immuno @ all costs. I can't fit it in my schedule, or else I'd be taking bio of cancer - people are saying that's great. Physio's always interesting to the wannabe-MD. Personally, only one I could fit in my schedule is microbio and it seems like it's going to be interesting - hopefully a lot more of the "infectious disease" than the "microbiology" aspects of the title. 🙂
I am also doing the one year program. Who is that one poster to say that there is a "one size fits all" type of schedule? I am also in the same boat with the MCAT. I am thinking of taking it during summer orgo, what are your thoughts about that. I have a pretty respectful undergrad GPA, have done well on standardized tests and somehow crammed to CLEP out of a few undergrad classes!
I would advise against taking it during summer orgo - it's a demanding class time-wise and I think you'll be distracted. My thoughts on the MCAT for someone in our situation consist of 1 of 2 things:
1) Go nuts & try to make a legitimate app cycle this year. We're at a disadvantage w/out biochem (and my UG GPA sucks), so I'm getting my app in as soon as possible. This means, at the latest, a June MCAT. That gives almost a month off to study for it w/out classes & it is before summer classes start. I am making a run at this - also doing the sat/sunday Princeton Review from March until June.
2) Relax, learn orgo, maximize your MCAT score, and live with the fact that you will be very late in the app cycle. You'll have a lot more time and obviously be better off for orgo. I'm hoping I can make up for this w/ PR classes.
I've also been told that the orgo on the MCAT is very specific & not that difficult - one of the few reasons I'm confident that it's doable.
I mean, my life sucks from March until May - lectures 5 days a week & MCAT on Sat/Sun. But, if I survive then next year can truly be a glide year for me - MCAT and pre-reqs will be in the bank and I have a chance in getting into a school this app cycle. I think it's worth the effort, but I think it's a VERY individual decision to make. Only you know your limits/abilities - I think that if you did very well in the pre-reqs and you're a good standardized test taker, June is a good gamble. You'll never be fresher off the pre-req classes & material.
Something that really helped me decide was taking a practice MCAT - you can get one online for free. Take one this weekend and see how you score - I don't think it should discourage you if you do badly, but should definitely encourage you if you do very well.
Forgot to mention - you have a few weeks in between the end of orgo & the start of fall classes, perfect time to do secondaries. 🙂
If you have a Harvard ID (so, you're in the diploma program), and you don't need the locker overnight, you have Hemenway & MAC. Otherwise you may have to bribe an undergrad to share.
I know plenty of people saving a year by doing chem in the summer and then the other three in the year. If you can handle the heavy load and lack of income for that long, it's perfect.
Amen. At first I was pretty annoyed that I'd have to do a post-bacc at all, and just wanted to get it over with in a hurry. But now that I'm in it, I'm enjoying it so much that I'm almost reluctant to move on.
If only buying them alcohol wasn't so terribly illegal and on your record for med school!
I think it's much better to start gen chem in the summer, then take orgo, bio, & physics during the fall/spring. Doing the MCAT w/out orgo is definitely not how I'd prefer to go into it. But I do agree that, given your GPA is in good shape, you can save a year.
It's a cool experience - I (obviously) haven't been to med school yet. But never in my life have I had a period of time where I was surrounded with so many people with the same goals as mine. It's cool when you can go out for drinks & the conversation moves to medicine by choice. This is a special group of people, and I only hope that med school has the same type of people.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
There are the crazy people here and there, just like undergrad (or life in general for that matter). But it is awesome to have so many people around you with similar hopes and dreams.
I hope my future medical school colleagues are like my current ones at Harvard.
I hope my future medical school colleagues are like my current ones at Harvard.
Just wanted to chime in and say the people are wonderful. Make friends with and learn from others who've had different backgrounds/experiences than your own. 👍 👍
Only way to find out is to apply. You'll most likely get a letter back with your check saying sorry your GPA is too low we can't help you, but you can still take the classes as they are open enrollment. You can get individual letters from the professors, etc. The only thing you won't be eligible for if you are not accepted is sponsorship.
If you come as an open enrollment and do well for a semester or two (4.0), your chances for getting into the program are extremely good.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
This is my opinion as well - but statistics don't lie. The vast majority of people take 2 classes & the vast majority of them get in somewhere (don't know what our placement stat is). Taking 2 classes is a pretty good amount of work - again, remember that you'll be volunteering, studying for the MCAT, trying to find a clinical job that stops you from going further in debt, etc. . . .
I think it's more that you're taking 2 hard sciences - whereas in normal undergrad you'd take 2 hard sciences & 2 fluff classes to get your ~14-15 hours. Taking 3 hard sciences is a very good amount of work here - taking 4 is close to impossible. You also can't afford to make poor grades, which ups the level of effort for each class.
Hi all,
more or less new here. I just started a MPH (public health) program at BU and came to the realization that I'd like to add a MD to that. I'm kind of hoping to finnagle a way to finish my pre-reqs over this summer and the coming year (so, summer 07, fall 07, spring 08), and finish my MPH during my glide year. Anyways, I was just wondering if those of you in the program can give me an idea of how your weeks are timed? I've checked the website and I see the class meeting times, but don't really get an idea of how labs and such are set up, how much time is required to really give the material a good go, etc.
Another ?: I'm debating between HES and the Tufts postbac program. I realize HES has about 80-90% acceptance to med schools, but, um...does anyone have real life success stories of people coming out of HES that they've heard of/would like to share? What kind of schools do people get into? How well is the extension school regarded by med schools?, etc. Heh, any substantiated claims of why HES is better than Tufts would be welcome, as well!
Thanks all for your help! =)
more or less new here. I just started a MPH (public health) program at BU and came to the realization that I'd like to add a MD to that. I'm kind of hoping to finnagle a way to finish my pre-reqs over this summer and the coming year (so, summer 07, fall 07, spring 08), and finish my MPH during my glide year. Anyways, I was just wondering if those of you in the program can give me an idea of how your weeks are timed? I've checked the website and I see the class meeting times, but don't really get an idea of how labs and such are set up, how much time is required to really give the material a good go, etc.
Another ?: I'm debating between HES and the Tufts postbac program. I realize HES has about 80-90% acceptance to med schools, but, um...does anyone have real life success stories of people coming out of HES that they've heard of/would like to share? What kind of schools do people get into? How well is the extension school regarded by med schools?, etc. Heh, any substantiated claims of why HES is better than Tufts would be welcome, as well!
Thanks all for your help! =)
If you look at the official 2006 thread I beleive all of these questions have been answered in great detail.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
How are you fellow HES'ers taking to classes this semester? I am much fonder of this semester than last.
I guess it depends who you ask. Most would agree that second semester orgo and bio in general are very challenging courses, more so than Chemistry and Physics. Throw MCAT prep and application process into the equation or those of us applying this year, and it's easy to see why the second semester of the second year is the most challenging.
I don't care so much about the level of challenge, I've always done my best in those courses I considered the hardest; I'm just far more interested this semester than last, particularly in bio.
I am a little unclear about something. When you go to HES and take classes in the medical science courses and make the B's or A's to raise your undergrad GPA to above the 2.8 then you apply to the HCP and Sponsorship? Then when accepted can you use those hours already cum. to satisfy the 32 hours? I hope you understand my question. lol
Bio - better, but not as much as I thought. I knew a little about physio, but nothing about molecular bio so the first semester was still really interesting.
Physics - I hate electricity, take a guess. 🙂
Chem - Nuclear chem & kinetics are really cool - but I think some of the future stuff isn't as much fun.
All in all, I like everything better this semester but physics so far.
That's a grey area of the program that you'd likely have to call Dr. Fixsen directly to address.
I Would Not Recommend Harvard Extension School To My Worst Enemy.
The Extension School Is Just A Revenue Booster For Harvard. Let's Pack 400 Plus People In A Lecture Hall And See What We Can Do.
Attending Harvard Extension School Was The Worst Decision I Have Ever Made. I Went From Brown University To A Third-rate Community College With A Nice Label.
If Anyone Is Thinking Of Postbacc, Go To A Reputable Program. Fixsen Was Nothing But An Apathetic Pedant. Total Waste Of Space.
Please Take Heed In My Sagacious Words.
The Extension School Is Just A Revenue Booster For Harvard. Let's Pack 400 Plus People In A Lecture Hall And See What We Can Do.
Attending Harvard Extension School Was The Worst Decision I Have Ever Made. I Went From Brown University To A Third-rate Community College With A Nice Label.
If Anyone Is Thinking Of Postbacc, Go To A Reputable Program. Fixsen Was Nothing But An Apathetic Pedant. Total Waste Of Space.
Please Take Heed In My Sagacious Words.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
You will find the sentiment from a lot of people who did/do poorly here - this is not an easy course, but I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who does well here struggle getting in, or while in medical school. Yes there're easier options, which will get you into medical school that is for sure.
I think he does have a point - the classes are large and the school doesn't give everyone A's like you would hope an Ivy League undergrad institution would. I don't know anyone who has done well in the program and disliked it - but I bet that's the norm at most schools. I would suggest calling Dr. Fixsen and making your own judgments - I think you will find the contrary.
It wasn't in all caps, but reminded me of a funny Maddox(ism) . . .
Maddox said:
Say what you will about the teaching, but saying the Extension School is a "cash cow" for Harvard is just plain stupid. From the Harvard website:
"Harvard University's endowment, valued at $25.9 billion at the end of FY 2005, is a collection of more than 10,800 separate funds established over the years to provide scholarships; to maintain libraries, museums, and other collections; to support teaching and research activities; and to provide ongoing support for a wide variety of other activities. The great majority of these funds carry some type of restriction."
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/guide/finance/index.html
"Harvard University's endowment, valued at $25.9 billion at the end of FY 2005, is a collection of more than 10,800 separate funds established over the years to provide scholarships; to maintain libraries, museums, and other collections; to support teaching and research activities; and to provide ongoing support for a wide variety of other activities. The great majority of these funds carry some type of restriction."
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/guide/finance/index.html
i'm thinking of attending HEC in the fall to begin a pre-med post bacc. i'd like to hear other current students respond to the "Third-rate Community College" bit.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who capitalizes the first letter of every word in a sentence attended Brown. Maybe you should repeat English 101 before you attempt medical school pre-reqs.
Graduate success speaks for itself. The HCP is one of many programs at the Extension School, however it is by far one of, if not the most successful programs they offer. There is no need to defend our program, you can look read about the program on the homepage and make an informed decision.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who capitalizes the first word of every sentence attended Brown. Maybe you should repeat English 101 before you attempt medical school pre-reqs.
Since when does one not capitalize the first letter of every sentence?
I guess I didn't get the memo.
E.E. Cummings
Stop editing my posts! Do you work for the National Inquirer? Thats against SDN TOS
I couldn't resist. You sure you're not Dan Rather?😀
In all seriousness, the comparison of Harvard Extension School to Community College is pretty tenuous, at best. True, the courses are open enrollment, and tuition is on the same order of magnitude as at a CC, thank goodness.
But as far as quality of instruction, I would put my money on Harvard. Yes, it's the extension school, but many of the professors who teach Extension school courses are also Harvard College Faculty, and teach the same courses to the undergraduates. There are also faculty from the Harvard Medical School, the Harvard School of Public Health, etc. who teach extension school science courses.
While it's true that some of the courses here are hit-or-miss (as at any academic institution) I have had some excellent professors in the science courses I've taken here. Although it varies with the course, the workload is, on average, fairly intense. The degree of difficulty also varies depending on the course, but generally there are copious opportunities to attend help sessions, review sessions, post questions to discussion boards, etc. The resources are, basically, there for the taking.
As far as Biology goes, I find it to be a very challenging yet immensely interesting course. Dr. Fixsen definitely has his own style, but I would hazard a guess that the format and style of his course more closely approximate what one can expect to find in medical school, than do some of the other teaching styles found here.
Hope that helps
In all seriousness, the comparison of Harvard Extension School to Community College is pretty tenuous, at best. True, the courses are open enrollment, and tuition is on the same order of magnitude as at a CC, thank goodness.
But as far as quality of instruction, I would put my money on Harvard. Yes, it's the extension school, but many of the professors who teach Extension school courses are also Harvard College Faculty, and teach the same courses to the undergraduates. There are also faculty from the Harvard Medical School, the Harvard School of Public Health, etc. who teach extension school science courses.
While it's true that some of the courses here are hit-or-miss (as at any academic institution) I have had some excellent professors in the science courses I've taken here. Although it varies with the course, the workload is, on average, fairly intense. The degree of difficulty also varies depending on the course, but generally there are copious opportunities to attend help sessions, review sessions, post questions to discussion boards, etc. The resources are, basically, there for the taking.
As far as Biology goes, I find it to be a very challenging yet immensely interesting course. Dr. Fixsen definitely has his own style, but I would hazard a guess that the format and style of his course more closely approximate what one can expect to find in medical school, than do some of the other teaching styles found here.
Hope that helps
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
