*~*~*~*Official Letters of Recommendation Questions Thread 2016-2017*~*~*~*

[Yal1031]

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So my PI has written me a letter of recommendation and I have been planning on using it for my science LOR, since I have also taken a genetics class with him. I informed him that he should mention my class performance in his letter; however, the letter is probably going to be more focused on my performance in his lab, considering that I did research there for 3 years. Is it still okay to use this for my science LOR? I could always get another science letter as a backup, but it would most likely be less strong and written by a grad student instructor and co-signed by a professor.

 

[Nucleophile1]

I have two PI's, one main PI that I see every time I come into lab and I correspond with her frequently. However, my project is a collaboration with someone at a different university, so I do correspond with them at times and they typically attend my talks. Do I need to get letters from both of them or should I just get a letter from my main PI?

 

[californiadreamin']

If I already have some LORs in AMCAS and assigned to medical schools before submitting the primary, would schools read the LORs when they are sent with the primary? Or do they wait until after you have submitted their secondaries?

 

[baratheonfire]

Most schools will not spend valuable time and resources with thousands of applications coming until they know the applicant has fulfilled all application pieces. The majority wont read them for evaluation until secondaries are in and file is complete. However, someone in adcom staff may screen them earlier solely to note what they may fulfill in requirement.

So can you still receive a secondary before all your recommendations have been submitted?

 

[Mcatbot]

@gonnif

I have three different research experiences. Two were fantastic and they wrote me great LORs but my relationship with my third PI isn't the best due to a variety of reasons. Will leaving that LOR out of my committee letter be an issue for top, research heavy schools if I include that experience in AMCAS?

 

[baratheonfire]

.

 

[Mcatbot]

Hmm, I am thinking out loud here. Assuming your adcom doesnt require the LOR in its file and/or doesnt do anything other than mention the experience in the committee letter, that would be in accordance with rules (perhaps not quite spirit but that's OK). Then you listing in AMCAS is in accordance with rules. Unlikely you will be suspect in some negative way. You might get a question at interview but again not in some presumed negative intent.

My judgement would be minor risk. I would run it past some others adcoms/faculty on here

Thanks @gonnif! I should clarify that I didn't ask for a LOR from my third PI and my committee does not require letter from every PI

@gyngyn @mimelim @Catalystik Thoughts? Thanks so much!

 

[agc2234]

I hope this hasn't been asked 1000 times on here already. Got a quick question about science vs non-science LOR.

A few semesters ago, I took an undergrad medical science of psychoactive drugs class and received a LOR from the professor who taught the class (and also teaches in the medical school, if that affects anything). I am currently wondering if that'll count as a science or non-science.

I currently have a LOR from a neuroscience Professor and expect to obtain a LOR from an Orgo professor. However, if the Orgo professor fell through for any reason, would the medical science class count as a science LOR? The class was completely science based, but it was classified as a medical science course instead of any of the Bio/physics/chem umbrella.

 

[waitaminute]

Is it bad to list a certain volunteer activity (which I spent 2 years at) as a "most meaningful activity" and not have a letter of recommendation from that activity? Likewise, is it negative to not have a letter from a PI whose lab I worked in 2 years ago (that was mostly grunt work - i.e., not significant or meaningful)? I have a letter from my most recent PI who I've been working for since I left the last lab.
Thanks in advance!!

 

[Sloppy Toppy]

Is it okay to have letters that are 2-3 years old (2013-2014)? I had planned to apply earlier, but postponed my application and ultimately decided to work.

I already have 5-6 letters, so I didn't feel as if it was necessary to ask my current/most recent employer/s for letters.

 

[Sloppy Toppy]

You should consider asking those letter writers from 2013-2014 for updated letters

That sucks. Thanks for the help. I haven't really kept in contact with these individuals and if I did it was just a brief how are you doing email or text. I also didn't go back and further pursue these activities. What would the update even have?

 

[agc2234]

Edit: double reply

 

[agc2234]

Many applicants equate "science" with AMCAS "BCPM". This is not always accurate. Science for purposes LOR/LOE is what "normal" science would be at a college or university. This would include Biology, Chemistry, and Physics, certainty. But it would also include Oceanography, Geology, or even Computer Science and Materials Sciences. Under this general theme most health and medical science fields could be considered science.

Awesome, thanks for the reply. I figured it had to be science since it wouldn't qualify as a humanities course for non-science, but I was operating under the BCPM assumption, which is why I was iffy on where it would count.

 

[dunks94]

hey guys, quick question about submitting letters.

My school has a pre-med committee that compiles letters and also has a committee letter they write. do I only need to include the committee letter and the letter packet (and not any individual letters)? Who would be the primary author for the letter packet? Also, i'm confused as to what the address would be? Would it be the pre-med's committee's office? Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[aznlolboi]

does your letter have to be from the same year? I am a reapplicant but im planning on using the same letters from last year (2015). is that bad?

 

[amber80]

does your letter have to be from the same year? I am a reapplicant but im planning on using the same letters from last year (2015). is that bad?

It is probably a good idea to get at least one new LOR if you have had any additional activities/classes that you are adding to your application this year. As for letters from last year you can ask the writers to just update the date to this year. But really you could use them as is and meet many school's requirements. Be sure to read the LOE requirement for each school you are applying to. Some do require one new LOE for reapplicants.


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[amber80]

Well, from a technical sense, you can use them. From a practical sense is, they didnt work last year, why would you assume they will work this year? Additionally, the common mistake among reapplicants is applying again too soon. Prove to me that you have had substantial improvement to your credentials from last year

He or she didn't ask you to judge if it is too soon for them to apply. They just asked for specific information about LOEs. Do you really have to make additional comments? How do you know it was the LOEs and not something else that admissions committees wanted the applicant to improve? Plenty of people get in applying one year later and many don't. It depends on each individual's situation.


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[amber80]

As an adviser and former adcom, when a student is doing something that most schools do not recommend, I think it is worth commenting on. This is particularly true when he/she mentions reusing the same items from last year indicating that at least some items have not been improved. Therefore it is worth bringing up to the student something he/she needs to critically analyze prior to reapplying. While this may be up to the individual, many medical schools specifically warn against applying again too soon (see below). This is the same concept that you will use as a physician when a patient comes in for one thing but you suspect another. So if I can help the student by providing this critique, thus helping him/her be a 3rd time reapplicant, I shall

University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
http://admissions.med.miami.edu/md-programs/general-md/reapplicants
Roughly 20% of the students who apply to the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine in any given year are reapplicants. Data that we have collected indicate they have a lower acceptance rate than do first time applicants

University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Heath
http://www.med.wisc.edu/education/md/admissions/reapplying/31716 (emphasis in the original)
There should be significant improvements in your application before reapplying. This might mean not reapplying the very next year. The most common error made by reapplicants is that they submit their next application too soon.

The Ohio State University College of Medicine
http://medicine.osu.edu/admissions/md/tips-and-advice/pages/index.aspx
To maximize the chances of giving off this perception, you must allow enough time before reapplying. This will undoubtedly be the hardest part of the process, but be patient; if you rush it, you may join the ranks of those who are applying for a third time.

University of Minnesota Medical School
https://www.med.umn.edu/admissions/how-apply/re-applicant
Though you can submit a second application immediately after your first application, you may want to consider waiting a year if you feel you need more experiences that help you demonstrate the essential and desired qualities of an ideal medical student.

It's not bad advice. The tone of your first message just appeared critical instead of helpful. But it's hard to judge tone on these forums. Our brains did not evolve to communicate this way.

It is good advice. As a reapplicant I waited a couple of years to make sure I had enough time to significantly strengthen my application. But I am old non-trad and I view time differently that most younger med school applicants. But some people may only need a year to close the gap.


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[amber80]

And I have be primarily advising nontrads for the past 15 years as the director of the National Society of Nontraditional Premedical and Medical Students. I help people in their 30s, 40s, and even 50s get into medical school. If you havent hit 30, you aint yet

After 15 years of dealing with neurotic pre-meds, I guess you have earned the right to being very 'direct'.

I am a mamma in my late 30s, so definitely a non-trad.


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[gonnif]

If I have been working part time at a job for seven years (15 years old to current) and have significant awards, promotions, and responsibilities. Would it be questionable to not get a LOR from my employer. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but she has absolutely horrible grammar and writing skills. I feel that her letter would be extremely nice, but would appear as if a 10 year old wrote it....

It is not vital to get it..

 

[TheFlash11]

Hi I realize there have been some questions similar to mine, but am considering sending a 7th LOR.

I am a non-trad who has worked in 3 separate labs under 3 PIs--the third of which I work under currently.

While at undergrad I got all of my academic letters (2 science, 1 english).

One of the labs I worked in for four years and asked my post-doc to write a letter since I worked with her every day. She wrote a letter that is highly personalized and an all around fantastic letter that I think adds to my application in many ways. Also she is now faculty at another institution, and the letter is written in that letterhead.

I also got a letter from the PI that ran that lab that I'm confident was great, but not as much about my personality.

My third is from a PI I worked for one summer.

That makes 6 LORs which will be in my committee packet.

Now I've been working in a lab for a year and a half with a PI and did not ask for a LOR because I already have so many. Do I need to ask him for a letter? I read that not having a letter from every PI is a red flag. I'm sure he'd write something nice, but not anything nearly as personal as the one from my post-doc. I'm struggling with either dropping my post-doc letter and replacing it with this PI or sending a supplementary letter to my packet.

Is 7 too many? Should I only send the extra one from my current PI to research schools? What's worse an extra letter? or a missing letter from a PI?

I know some schools want letters from every PI, but 7 seems excessive, and I don't want to lose the post-doc letter....

Thanks for the help!

 

[jazian]

So I worked with two PI's who were collaborating on a summer research project and when I asked one for a letter of rec from one of them, she agreed and suggested that she write a joint letter with the other PI who is a department chair of the med school. Is it allowed to have joint letters of rec?

 

[Anxious Affect]

A physician wrote me a LOR, although he also teaches a non-science course at my school that I took. Would I select "associated with a school"? I already have my 2 science, 1 non-science letters, so I don't need his to count as non-science. He is using the hospital's letterhead, not my university's. Thoughts?

 

[amber80]

A physician wrote me a LOR, although he also teaches a non-science course at my school that I took. Would I select "associated with a school"? I already have my 2 science, 1 non-science letters, so I don't need his to count as non-science. He is using the hospital's letterhead, not my university's. Thoughts?

I had a similar situation, I had shadowed physicians at a university medical facility, but never taken any courses with them. So I sent AAMC an email about it and their response was that I should select 'yes' when asked if the recommender was affiliated with a school and then enter the school. This is what I did.
However I still don't understand the reason behind it. Hope this helps.


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[Gurby]

I'll be applying with around 4000 hours of experience as a paramedic. How big of a deal is it to not have a LoR from this? I already have 5 other LoR's being included with my committee letter.

Thing is that I don't know any of my supervisors very well. It's just the way EMS works: we pretty much only see them now and then when they show up for a gnarly call, or if somebody screws something up. A LoR from my supervisor would likely say, "he does his job, shows up to work on time, hasn't killed anybody yet and writes a pretty good narrative".

I could potentially get a letter from another medic I used to work with a lot, who is fairly high ranked in a fire department and also does some teaching in addition to working the ambulance. I know he thinks very highly of me and always tries to pick up shifts with me, and his credentials are somewhat impressive, but ultimately he's still a coworker. Would this be a worthwhile EMS letter, or would it just "dilute" my pool of letters?

 

[Aldlal]

Edit: question already answered in different thread

 

[gunsandroes]

-

 

[shwon725]

Hi, I submitted my application last week and when I did that I assigned my letters to medical schools. Just today, I realized that I made a stupid mistake in one of the letter entries. I forgot to add "Dr" as a suffix for my PI. I figured that you can't change anything after submitting the app. I have not emailed the letter form to my PI so he doesn't have a copy yet. I was wondering if I should mark that letter as "no longer being sent" and make another entry for the PI with the correct information. Or should I just keep it as it is? I feel bad and disrespectful for not putting the suffix. Am I thinking too much?
Thank you for the help!

 

[rhlehgusl]

.

 

[amber80]

Can I have my letter writer re-submit a letter with the same letter ID? My postdoctoral researcher just sent me the copy of the letter and I noticed that she forgot to have it cosigned by the PI (I don't even know if it matters that much because the PI wasn't involved at all in our project). Also she forgot to put a date, but based on my Work/Activities section, it should be clear that the letter was written sometime after May 2016, which is when this activity ended. Should I even bother?

Search the AMCAS instruction manual or FAQ. I think if you resend a letter with the same letter ID as another one, AMCAS just attaches it to the old one. So essentially the med schools will see both versions of the letter. Again double check on the AMCAS website.


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[rhlehgusl]

.

 

[amber80]

Hi, I submitted my application last week and when I did that I assigned my letters to medical schools. Just today, I realized that I made a stupid mistake in one of the letter entries. I forgot to add "Dr" as a suffix for my PI. I figured that you can't change anything after submitting the app. I have not emailed the letter form to my PI so he doesn't have a copy yet. I was wondering if I should mark that letter as "no longer being sent" and make another entry for the PI with the correct information. Or should I just keep it as it is? I feel bad and disrespectful for not putting the suffix. Am I thinking too much?
Thank you for the help!

Are you using Interfolio? Because then you don't have to send the AMCAS letter form to the PI, just an invite from Interfolio. In the Interfolio entry just remember to add the suffix 🙂. Also remember to add the suffix in the secondaries if they require you to note LOR writers.
You are thinking about as much as any other med school applicant. You could opt to explain the situation to the PI before sending him the letter form. I really have no idea how schools look at 'no longer being sent'.
You could also contact AMCAS for suggestions.


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[amber80]

Thanks for the heads-up. I found the information on the AMCAS Instruction Manual:

"Once a letter is received by AMCAS it cannot be deleted or edited by any party. Any letters that follow an original letter with the same AMCAS Letter ID will be appended to the original letter and sent to all medical schools to which the letter is designated."

Should I even bother?

For the signature question you can contact AMCAS or even individual schools and ask them if they require the PI signature for the LOR to be acceptable and then proceed as the advise.

A signature on the LOR is a requirement, but not sure if all co-writers have to sign.


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[shwon725]

Are you using Interfolio? Because then you don't have to send the AMCAS letter form to the PI, just an invite from Interfolio. In the Interfolio entry just remember to add the suffix 🙂. Also remember to add the suffix in the secondaries if they require you to note LOR writers.
You are thinking about as much as any other med school applicant. You could opt to explain the situation to the PI before sending him the letter form. I really have no idea how schools look at 'no longer being sent'.
You could also contact AMCAS for suggestions.


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Thank you very much for the answer. I am not using Interfolio. I guess I will write a polite and apologetic message to the PI and hope he doesn't get offended. 🤔

 

[protego]

When the medical schools websites say for example, minimum of 3 LOR but don't say anything about adding more, should I just send 3 to be safe? Is it common to send more? I have two LOR that I'm very confident in and then two that are probably very good but not of the same impact. I'm not sure what the best plan is, or even what the schools expect when they don't state anything about additional letters but use the word minimum.

Also, I'm a little confused about submitting letters vs. assigning. I can submit my primary for verification without assigning any letters to specific schools, even if the letters are all submitted, correct?

 

[Anxious Affect]

Is it ok if an MD does not have an official letterhead for my LOR?

He isn't the best with technology and had a lot of trouble adding a signature, even with my guidance 🙁 I feel bad continuing to bother him because I know this process has been difficult for him. Also, he works for a small nonprofit clinic which may not even have an official letterhead... For what it's worth, my remaining 5 LORs (including 3 professors) will have letterheads. Thoughts?

 

[PHgeek123]

@gonnif So some schools already released their secondaries but I am still waiting for 2 more letters to come in. These are only extra letters to the 3 required letters. Should I submit the secondaries before the letters come in? I already assigned all of them (written and unwritten) to the school through AMCAS.

 

[PHgeek123]

yes

Thanks so much!!

 

[knimtz22]

So I have a professor who has written me a letter of rec, but I haven't put her in the AMCAS system yet. I'm not really sure which school to associate her with. I took her class at UCLA, but she has since moved to another position at a different university. She still teaches summer classes at UCLA, but is a full-time professor at the other university. Which school would I associate her with on AMCAS?
Thanks

 

[sonbrs]

Weird situation: My lab's PI and the post doc I research with are at odds over my letter of recommendation. The post doc has written a very personal letter for me that he is attached to, but the PI thinks it inappropriate to have too much personal detail and would rather the letter focus only on my strengths in research and science. They're thinking of a compromise where the PI writes his own letter and signs, and has the post doc's letter appended under it on the same document, with a signature there from the post doc. The entire document would be saved as a single PDF. Would this fly with adcoms? I know it would be cleaner to have two separate letters, but I am concerned the post docs' letter won't be as strong as it could be if it stood by itself without the PI's cosignature, even if it is very personal. There's also the issue of limited letter slots with a couple schools I've selected. On the other hand, I am wondering if this combined letter would be too out of the ordinary and hurt my application.

My follow up question: If I had to choose between the very strong letter from my post doc, or the good letter from my PI, which should I pick?

Lastly, who should I put as the primary author on AMCAS for a letter written by a TA and cosigned by the professor?

Thanks!

 

[Goro]

I'm of the opinion that unless you're applying to the research powerhouses, med schools want people who will be good doctors, not grad students. As such, I think a personal recommendation as to your potential to be a good doctor IS important. We do want to see that you were also a good problem solver, team player, etc.


It should be a professional letter focusing on your strengths and weaknesses in science and research. a personal note strongly recommending you as someone who will make a good doctor is NOT what they want. The writer should give info and evaluation from a professional expertise they have not a prediction that you would make a good doctor

@Goro @Catalystik your thoughts please in case I am a little off mark here[/QUOTE]

 

[hh786]

I have sent emails to professors about writing a strong letter of recommendation and they have replied along the lines of "I'd be happy to." I emailed my research mentor who I've worked with with the same the same request though she said I can write "a letter about your involvement and conscientiousness." Would it be a bad letter since she wasn't overjoyed about it? I haven't been one to get a publication out of the time in the lab but I've been pretty involved. Could the letter hurt me because I know it'll raise a red flag if I didn't include a research letter.

 

[donutzebra]

I have two questions regarding letters of recommendation.

1) This one's a bit dumb, but I've heard from many people how important it is to request letters of recommendation in person. I'm from California, and my PI from a research program I did in the East Coast has already agreed enthusiastically to write me a strong letter of recommendation. However, when it comes time to formally request a letter of recommendation for my medical school application, would it be necessary or preferable to fly all the way across the country just to request the letter in person? I have the time and money to do so, but I doubt it's worth it. I like airplane rides, but I don't like them THAT much.

2) I've graduated from a structured hospital volunteering program with over 400 hours over two years. However, because of the large number of volunteers participating through that program, the program is such that volunteers don't really have one supervisor who has insight to their volunteer work at the hospital. Instead, the program provides a service for getting letters of recommendation that seems a bit impersonal, requiring volunteers to submit a letter of recommendation request with a brief description of their own service. I don't know the person who will be writing it, and I suspect the letter will be good, but not as strong as the rest of my letters from those who have actually known me personally for a period of time. However, I'm afraid that if I don't provide a letter from the program, it might be a red flag given how much volunteering I've done through it and that it's my only clinical volunteering experience. I'm sure it won't be negative (since I'm essentially the one writing the bulk of it), so I'm assuming it can only help my application, but I was wondering if I could have your thoughts as well. My other letters of recommendation will be as follows:
- Biology prof., research PI, and senior thesis advisor
- Another biology prof.
- French prof.
- Summer research PI
- (planned) AmeriCorps volunteering supervisor

Thanks for your help!

 

[yungspleen]

Just sent a letter packet of 3 letters from my school to AMCAS but now realizing some schools have a 2 letter limit...when amcas receives the packet, will they split it up into 3 letters or will i have to submit the whole packet to each school? would i have been better sending each letter individually?

 

[Hospitalized]

I have five letters of recommendation available for me to use (1 is a physician I've scribed with for 2 years that I will use for sure). I wasn't exactly sure how many I needed but I ended up asking 4 of my professors this year that I've been in contact with over the last 2-3 years. I'll detail the situations regarding each one below.

1.) General chemistry professor, organic chemistry lab instructor (All A's/A-'s). I took his general chemistry course, and he was also my lab instructor for a year, and I also took a summer class with him. So about 2.5 years of knowing him and I frequently visited office hours. Very personal guy. I spoke with him in person about writing the letter and he seemed very eager. The letter was turned in on time. He has a masters, no PhD.

2.) Organic chemistry professor (all A's). He thought very highly of me, I always scored well on his tests. He recommended me for a organic chemistry tutoring position which I ended up doing. Frequently visited office hours. I spoke with him in person about the letter and he agreed but seemed slightly reluctant at first, although this may have been because I asked towards the end of the semester while he was writing the final during office hours -- keep in mind I took his course 2 years ago. Ultimately the letter was turned in on time. PhD.

3.) Physiology professor (A-)/pre-health advisor. He's a very supportive person and I did well in his classes, but not as well as my chemistry courses. Unfortunately, the letter was turned in 2 days late and he turned it in 30 minutes after I E-mailed him reminding him about it. He offered to write me a letter in person. PhD.

4.) Genetics professor (A-)/grant coauthor. Nice lady and an excellent writer. She no longer teaches at the university because of a new research gig so I had to ask over E-mail (about 6 months ago). Unfortunately, I had to remind her multiple times to write the letter. Ended up pushing back the due date twice after giving 3 months originally. Yet still she turned it in 3 weeks after the final due date. I E-mailed her back after she turned it in to confirm that she was able to letterhead despite no longer teaching at the university, and she confirmed she did letterhead and also wrote a very sincere apology for not turning in the letter sooner. PhD. Grant is still pending.

Which letters should I use?

 

[medicalschoolhelp1234]

Is a non-science letter absolutely required? It's been 3 years since I have graduated.

 

[immunolove2021]

I know there have been many posts explaining that you can add LORs after submitting the primary, and I am currently in the process of assigning them to schools. However, I am still waiting on one (my pre-med and major advisor, which some of my schools require) and I am wondering if I can add a letter later on to submit it to a school even if I have already assigned letters to them and submitted my secondary. In other words if they already have all the application materials, can I still submit another letter later? Or is this school-specific?

 

[trib4555]

Quick question- I've taken a gap year doing research before applying, but was considering applying last year, so my school's committee letter was already written as of the previous cycle. Since that committee letter (with 3 included recommenders' letters) was generated last year, I would also like to send a new letter from my current PI separately; is this ok? Basically I'm concerned that supplying the new letter in addition to the committee letter will raise some flags, since it's coming separately.

 

[Hospitalized]

Well lets start first where is the non-science letter?

Not applicable. Not applying to any schools that require a non-science letter and/or calling schools that require one and seeing if I can get it waived. I haven't taken any non-science classes in 2 years and I wasn't able to get a good one.

 

[trib4555]

perfectly fine

Alright thank you so much