DVMorBust

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Who else needs a distraction? I've got email open, phone next to me, checking both every five minutes or so. This needs to stop. Unfortunately, with finals behind me, I don't have much else to occupy my mind with.

So...who wants to talk about something completely unrelated?
 

rachroo

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Haha, sounds like me! You could always look up apartments on apartment.com or craigslist.com for the city in which your 1st choice vet school is in. ;) I've been doing that lately, despite the fact that I haven't been accepted anywhere (yet!?!).

Hmm..maybe music is a good/safe non-vet topic?! I've lately been listening to Mat Kearney's cd...pretty good stuff!! And I heard Beyonce's "Halo" this morning and it's been stuck in my head all day.

Or books? OOOhh, now that I have time (since finals and graduation are over!), I've started reading "Jamica Inn" by Daphne DuMauier. I loved two of her other novels ("Rebecca" and "My Cousin Rachel"), so I thought I'd check this one out. I don't know if you go for British 19th century gothic/mystery/romance novels but if you happen to like Jane Austen or the Bronte sisters, DuMarier is in the same ballpark. :)
 

hopefulvet21

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Haha, sounds like me! You could always look up apartments on apartment.com or craigslist.com for the city in which your 1st choice vet school is in. ;) I've been doing that lately, despite the fact that I haven't been accepted anywhere (yet!?!).

Hmm..maybe music is a good/safe non-vet topic?! I've lately been listening to Mat Kearney's cd...pretty good stuff!! And I heard Beyonce's "Halo" this morning and it's been stuck in my head all day.

Or books? OOOhh, now that I have time (since finals and graduation are over!), I've started reading "Jamica Inn" by Daphne DuMauier. I loved two of her other novels ("Rebecca" and "My Cousin Rachel"), so I thought I'd check this one out. I don't know if you go for British 19th century gothic/mystery/romance novels but if you happen to like Jane Austen or the Bronte sisters, DuMarier is in the same ballpark. :)
I LOVE THEM. I have a really weird obsession with Victorian and Gothic literature. I lived in London for a while, got obsessed, and took a class there called Gothic Literature. I like to think I'm a rising expert in the subject. Read The Monk by Lewis. And also read Vathek by William Beckford. Stear clear of Ann Radcliffe, she's boring.
 
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flyhi

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Books, yes! I have been off of the reading train for a couple of years....so sad. I just bought one of my favorite books of all time to read again - Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I am completely absorbed in it again.
 

NycVet

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I have a really weird obsession with Victorian and Gothic literature.
Me too, another good book in Victorian/Gothic literature is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson. It's awesome, you wont stop reading until it's done.
 

rachroo

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Thanks for all the book suggestions everyone, I'm def going to have to check those out! :)

I have a really weird obsession with Victorian and Gothic literature.
::Raises hand every so slightly:: Me too! I'm kind of a book worm...and a nerd. It all started with Jane Eyre back in high school AP English and hasn't stopped since. One of my fav classes in undergrad that ties w/Micro and A&P was British Women Writers.

I don't know if you know about Masterpiece's theatre on PBS? Earlier this year they did fabulous adaptations on all of Jane Austen's works. Starting in January their lineup includes Wuthering Heights :))) and Tess of the D'Urbervilles :)D)....along with some others! Soo excited!
 
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hopefulvet21

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Thanks for all the book suggestions everyone, I'm def going to have to check those out! :)



::Raises hand every so slightly:: Me too! I'm kind of a book worm...and a nerd. It all started with Jane Eyre back in high school AP English and hasn't stopped since. One of my fav classes in undergrad that ties w/Micro and A&P was British Women Writers.

I don't know if you know about Masterpiece's theatre on PBS? Earlier this year they did fabulous adaptations on all of Jane Austen's works. Starting in January their lineup includes Wuthering Heights :))) and Tess of the D'Urbervilles :)D)....along with some others! Soo excited!
cool!! I'll check it out! Wuthering Heights is one of my favorites. I love Dickens too and am slowly progressing through Bleak House. It's really good so far. When I was in England I got to visit all these places mentioned in the books I've read, it was so fun! I saw Dickens' house and even went on a Jack the Ripper tour which was a huge obsession of the Victorians (not the tour, but the guy haha). Okay, I'm done embarrassing myself for now.
 

rachroo

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haha, when I was in London I didn't go on the Jack the Ripper tour but I did go on a 'Haunted London' tour...I couldn't tell you half of what the tour guide said except he said, "Riiiiiiggggggghhhhhht" every 3rd word in his British accent!

Ohh...here's the link for the PBS Classic Masterpiece Theatre:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/classic/index.html

Here's the schedule for the line up starting in January (since you said you're reading Dickens, they actually have 3 of his works that have been adapted!)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/schedule/masterpiece_classic_schedule.pdf
 

DVMorBust

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Whoah! I manage to tear myself away for the night and everyone shows up! How's it going, guys?

I just picked up 'The Year of Living Biblically". It's been on my list since reading a passage over the summer, and it's been an amazing read so far.

Anyone out there read The Lies of Locke Lamora? If anyone's into fantasy, I HIGHLY recommend it. Scott Lynch is now next to Neil Gaiman on my 'favorite authors' list.
 

LadyHitokiri

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I'm more of a Dean Koontz kinda girl, although I have to admit he's had his share of good and bad novels. ;) You just have to learn to find the good ones! (i.e. Watchers, Velocity, The Husband...) And let's not forget our children's fantasies! DJ MacHale is a must (The Pendragon series...we're on book #9 out of 10, in which the 10th book comes out mid-May. Talk about having to wait!)

I unfortunately didn't read much this semester, so I have a high tower of books and manga to read! Oh wells...I better get crackin'!
 

dyachei

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Anyone out there read The Lies of Locke Lamora? If anyone's into fantasy, I HIGHLY recommend it. Scott Lynch is now next to Neil Gaiman on my 'favorite authors' list.
I agree, great book. I picked it up on a whim during the summer and was enthralled.
 
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Truth74

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Maybe the dog was sedated and not positioned to bite him in the package. :eek:
 

LVT2DVM

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Interesting website. Can anyone tell what is wrong with this picture though:
????????? I know the dogs is having AI...What am I missing? Gloves perhaps. Please tell me, tell me David.
 

david594

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????????? I know the dogs is having AI...What am I missing? Gloves perhaps. Please tell me, tell me David.
Its something really stupid.... but its the wrong syringe. Rubber can have a toxic affect on sperm so AI syringes are made entirely of plastic.

IE: http://www.enasco.com/product/C13044N

Working for a repro vet I have been the tech on the other wide of the dog a few times. Wrong syringe is way up there on the list with cold collection supplies that would get me yelled at.
 
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LVT2DVM

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OMG! You are totally correct! I completely missed the big, black, rubber stopper. You definitely win the prize for paying attention. :thumbup:
 
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BodhiBird

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What's everyone's opinion on breeding dogs? For the most part I'm against it because of the outrageous numbers of dogs in shelters and dogs being euthanized in shelters. I see the desire for some people to breed their dog once and I can't say I'm one hundred percent against it, but to go to the lengths of artificial insemination... that's pretty crazy in my opinion!
 

rachroo

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but to go to the lengths of artificial insemination... that's pretty crazy in my opinion!
Bulldogs, anyone!? Seems they often need a "little" help with AI.
 

BodhiBird

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Not all bulldogs need AI, although most need c-sections. However, if we have a dog that can't even reproduce on its own should we really be continuing the breed? At some point you have to address ethical questions. For instance, a lot of the brachycephalic breeds like bulldogs have loads of respiratory problems... is it right to continue such a problematic breed of dog? Is it ethical for a breeder to breed a dog with hip dysplasia or a white boxer? And I by no means am using this post as a pulpit... I actually like the brachycephalic breeds, including cats - my rescued persian has nearly no nose at all (she was a petstore reject) :laugh:
 

DVMorBust

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I'm also against breeding on a gut level due to the overpopulation issues (done a lot of work with rescue) however, there's a few points once you look at it a bit closer:

On occasion, there are jobs that need a very specific kind of dog (police work, seeing eye dogs, etc.). Now, it's possible to find these dogs in rescues, but I don't have a huge issue with dogs being bred for the purpose, since it takes a LOT of training starting from a very very young age, and they're not really jobs with room for uncertainty.

Also, if breeding were outlawed - who would stop breeding? The ethical breeders who are now going against the law, the ones who don't do it for money and who continue to produce good animals, who are frequently connected with enough people that they have homes for all their puppies before they're even born and who will take the puppies back at any point int he future if need be. Who wouldn't stop? The ones who don't care much one way or the other.
 

david594

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Also, if breeding were outlawed - who would stop breeding? The ethical breeders who are now going against the law, the ones who don't do it for money and who continue to produce good animals, who are frequently connected with enough people that they have homes for all their puppies before they're even born and who will take the puppies back at any point int he future if need be. Who wouldn't stop? The ones who don't care much one way or the other.

Exactly, the issue with overpopulation isnt because of the "good" breeders. Animal overpopulation is a result of people who either never get around to spaying or neutering their animals or who think they can turn a quick buck by letting their pug get it on with the neighbors chihauhau. The "$100 Chug puppies" on craigslist are the issue.

I work at a shelter and when you look around we don't have a ward full of pure-bred dogs. So the pure-bred breeders arnt the source of the overpopulation issues and arn't the people who need to be regulated.
 

DVMorBust

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The "$100 Chug puppies" on craigslist are the issue.
Ugh...don't even get me started on the cutesy names. I get hives whenever I hear the word 'puggle'. I've gotten in intense arguments with acquaintances when I refuse to refer to their pet as a '___doodle' or somesuch - I'm sorry, but that's a very nice Golden Retriever/Poodle mix you have there...
 
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BodhiBird

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I don't want to take sides because I quite frankly am not committed to any side - everything is relative. That being said, I think people who have a problem with even "good breeders" is because people are buying dogs from those breeders when they could be adopting animals out of shelters (theoretically). Also, lots of shelters do have puppies available and according to the Tufts magazine 25% of animals at shelters are pure breeds. In addition, I know people who have called shelters saying I am looking for ____ and when it comes in they will call you. A professor of mine got a golden retriever puppy that way and a former co-worker got her springer spaniel doing this.

Now to tackle "designer dogs." I work at a clinic that has a partnership with a pet store so I run across countless stupid named breeds... I think "Teddy Bear" (a bichon x shih tzu) is the dumbest (I think Bi-Tzu is way cooler!!!)! Anyways, I actually see designer breeds as a good thing for the "industry." At least the breeders are switching up some genes. So many pure breds are inbred. When you create a breed you essentially close the genetic material coming in and are stuck with what you got. As long as the designers are coming from corsses and not 2nd, 3rd etc generations you could get healthy genetic transferring. In addition, a lot of would be breeds are benefitting by being born as something else. For example, if I were a dog I'd rather be a puggle than a pug with a smooshed up nose that I can hardly breathe out of. Bottom line is, most designers are healthier than their pure bred parents.

Just my two cents.
 

BodhiBird

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PS... maybe I should start calling my MUTT a Boxstiff or a Moxer :bang:
 

DVMorBust

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PS... maybe I should start calling my MUTT a Boxstiff or a Moxer :bang:
Haha. I LOVE mutts, but they're mutts...it's the popularization of the cutesy naming-as-sale-gimmick that drives me buggy.

Although, I did decide that 'Border Sheplabskaluki' would be the best name ever for Sirius. Just try saying it...
 

Truth74

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I'm not too keen when they get into the multple crosses.

I've seen way too many Morkie and Schorkie poos, there's no point in it. Just go to the pound and ask for a small mixed breed. That's all you're getting by that point, anyway.

I also don't like it when I hear a rarer breed is crossed.
 

BodhiBird

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A few weeks ago we neutered this really cool dog. I thought he was a "labradoodle," so did everyone else at work. Anyways, the owner came in with him a few days later and I said, "he's a real nice dog, is he a labradoodle?" Turns out he is a barbet and she flew to France to buy him!!! Wonder what she thought of me asking if her French blooded dog was a... mutt!
 

LadyHitokiri

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A few weeks ago we neutered this really cool dog. I thought he was a "labradoodle," so did everyone else at work. Anyways, the owner came in with him a few days later and I said, "he's a real nice dog, is he a labradoodle?" Turns out he is a barbet and she flew to France to buy him!!! Wonder what she thought of me asking if her French blooded dog was a... mutt!
Hah, that's a funny story!

My dog is a mutt, and I'm proud of it! I was 7.5 years old when I got him and I love him to death but I really wish my mom hadn't gotten him from a pet store (they had listed his breed as 'Australian Cattle Dog/American Eskimo mix'- hey, at least no weird cross names!). We originally were going to adopt from a local shelter but to make a long story short, someone "cut" in front of us and took the dog that we had already indicated that we wanted to adopt. So...instead of going to other local shelters, my mom went to the pet store. *sigh* If I was older, I would have objected. XD
 

Fairyblastt

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I think designer dogs are hilarious. This reminds me of when I got my darling little batboy. He was an 'accident', and that's in quotes because I don't believe you can call it an accident when you've done nothing to prevent it... and it's the second time your dog's gotten pregnant. :rolleyes: This was the case of a friend of a friend's brother's dog got pregnant by the jack russell that lived a little ways down the road.

Anyway, when we first got little wonder batboy, we always joked that anyone could tell that he wasn't a planned puppy, because who in their right mind would willingly breed a rat terrier to a jack russell terrier? No one in their right mind would want to risk that level of potential terrorist in their home, right? Right?

Wrong. I found out a little while later that the designer name for my dog is a jackrat. But that's okay, because that means that it's now okay to stick him in little sweaters and carry him around in a purse.:smuggrin: He was just a silly ranch dog before that.
 

Shanomong

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Also, lots of shelters do have puppies available and according to the Tufts magazine 25% of animals at shelters are pure breeds. In addition, I know people who have called shelters saying I am looking for ____ and when it comes in they will call you. A professor of mine got a golden retriever puppy that way and a former co-worker got her springer spaniel doing this.
Just to make the obvious point here... if someone hadn't bred those purebred dogs somewhere along the line, they wouldn't have existed to end up in the shelter for your prof./co-worker to get ;)

Funny that this came up on here, I just had this convo with a vet at work about 3 hours ago (while we were spaying a mutt who had nipples that hung to her knees from all of the litter's she's had.... :bang:). He said he was morally opposed to breeders for the same reasons... there are so many good dogs in shelters waiting for homes... I said (and feel) that good breeders (no quotations needed) are not something I can have a strong stance against. I like breeds. I like knowing what I'm getting when I get a dog. I like it when they use genetics for good (instead of evil...bad hips... bad knees... 99% of the genetic make-up of Cavalier King Charles's :D); breeding out defects, breeding for temperment, breeding --like someone else said-- for a certain job. And when they're really doing it right they take great care of the parents and pups, they have the waiting lists... they, in my opinion, are doing a fine thing and it's not something I can be opposed to. Would I get a dog from a breeder? Probably not. Mine are both "purebred", one came from a pet store (long story... I was 18 and niave enough to ask the sales clerk what these puppy mills I had heard something about were...), and our second dog is from a rescue. I'd easily take a mutt too, in fact I'm in love with one at work right now (actually the one we spayed!), but I'm definitely not against breeds...

Anyway the vet agreed, he likes breeds, but still doesn't like breeders and he's not sure how to make that make sense :p. Probably close to how a lot of us feel...
 

gone2dogs

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On occasion, there are jobs that need a very specific kind of dog (police work, seeing eye dogs, etc.). Now, it's possible to find these dogs in rescues, but I don't have a huge issue with dogs being bred for the purpose, since it takes a LOT of training starting from a very very young age, and they're not really jobs with room for uncertainty.
I feel strongly that these dogs need to be very carefully bred because of the time and money invested in them to train them and the critical importance of their temperaments and health. With that said, there are several organizations that train rescued dogs for assistance work. The cases I've heard of are for more general service/mobility dogs and not for work such as guide work where there is more responsibility placed on the dog and the work isn't usually as life and death.
 
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EqSci

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I have a standard poodle. I don't clip him in the funny poodle clips, so almost every new person that meets him says, "Oh, is that a labradoodle?" Drive me NUTS and I usually go off on a rant about designer breeds/names. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not against mixed breeds, just against the names and marketing!)

He was an "accident" just like yours, Fairyblastt.... the owners had 2 intact females and 1 intact male as their pets. :confused: Can you honestly say "oops" when the inevitable happens? Apparently they had litters before but this one was a mistake. I guess the dogs didn't get the memo they sent out that there would be no litters that year. Anyway, I took care of the litter for her (I was renting an apt on the premises) and she was having trouble getting rid of all 10, and offered me one.

Gone2dogs, I understand! I'm very passionate about adopting animals from a shelter unless you need a specific breed/type for a specific reason (and even then), so I'm always a bit embarrassed by the fact that I got my purebred dog as a puppy from the person who bred him. :oops:
 

flyhi

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I am not embarrassed in the least that I have two purebred dogs for which I spent a small fortune on. I have had my share of mutts, mixes, rescues and adoptions, however I chose to go to a breeder this time and actually purchase my last two dogs. I did this because I wanted a specific breed for specific reasons and I ended up with the perfect dogs for me. I admire those who rescue and adopt dogs from our shelters.....we need many more people to do this. However, I am not going to apologize for getting exactly what I want from a responsible breeder. I am sure I will have many more dogs in my lifetime and some will be shelters dogs and some may be purebreds from a breeder.

As a previous poster mentioned, the overpopulation is not a result of good breeders. We need to continue to educate on spay/neutering and responsible breeding.

Just my .02. I hope i am not ostracized as a vet for having purebreds :love:
 

BodhiBird

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Hey, I don't look down on you at all Flyhi. Like I said I am a bit torn on the subject because there are so many ins and outs to the subject. At the moment I have a rescued mutt, but I too like breeds and have often thought about getting one from a breeder in the future. How could anyone resist a purebred Frenchie? :D
 

twelvetigers

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I'll admit, I got my current Corgi for free by luck, but I just might be sold on the breed. I mean, there's just nothing else out there quite like the wiggly little fuzzbutts. :)

On a side note, I'm not up really early, I'm up really late... haha. Bedtime?
 

BodhiBird

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oh lucky you... im downing a cup of coffee and then headin' to the clinic!
 

3dogsand2cats

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. there are so many good dogs in shelters waiting for homes....
Shanomong I have to agree with you all 3 of my dogs and cats are rescues. These animals are no where close to being purebred and thats ok with me. ;)
 

EqSci

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Sorry flyhi, didn't mean to make it sound like I look down on people who purchase a puppy responsibly. I agree with you that responsible breeders are a good thing.

I just meant that I get embarrassed because I probably seem like a hypocrite, spouting off to all my friends about adopting from a shelter when I have a purebred that didn't come from a shelter sitting next to me. :)
 

nyanko

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My feelings about dog breeders, heh. I could fill a book. ;)

So I'll try to give the abridged version, including my background.

Since the age of 14, I have volunteered and worked at various types of animal shelters, including high volume municipal shelters, poor rural shelters and well-funded private limited access ("no kill") shelters. I've cleaned kennels, learned my vet tech skills (that eventually helped land me a job at a clinic) by assisting the shelter clinic vets, been an adoption counselor and worked to help train shelter dogs. I've assisted with purebred rescue for Siberian Huskies and fostered difficult puppies and dogs.

I also spent one summer working as a kennel technician at a Petland, a pet store chain in the United States that sells puppies from USDA licensed commercial breeders and brokers.

As for my interest in vet med, it's companion animal genetics. So that, along with my background and experiences, explains very well why I have strong opinions on this issue. So with all that stuff out of the way, I'll try to explain how I feel.

Initially, I had the same attitudes as a lot of those that I hear from shelter folks - it's what I was exposed to, and so I didn't really think much about it other than "breeding = bad, adopt a shelter dog instead!" I held these opinions for a really long time, until I ended up with a husky puppy that I ended up rescuing from the pet store where I worked, that was going to put him down for a severe case of hookworms. :rolleyes: This was a short-term rescue and I knew it, since I was in no financial or stable state to take on a long term commitment like this, so I began to look for ways to rehome the pup.

It seems counterintuitive that my taking over a horribly bred puppy and looking into rescue would be the turning point in my attitude in this way. Basically, I started to do more research into purebred rescue, and got into contact with a lot of people who were involved with the local Siberian Husky rescue. To my surprise at the time, a lot of them showed and bred dogs as well. This was where I started to realize that there are responsible people who breed purebred dogs for a good reason. So what do I feel is the definition of a responsible breeder?

The first important thing, to me, is to have a purpose to breed. Whether a breeder is interested in conformation, agility, coursing, schutzhund or some other "dog sport," or they breed for service dog organizations, or K-9/military dog purposes, the breeder needs to have some sort of ideal that they are working towards in their mind. Dogs to be bred should be selected to further the breeders goals and work towards improving the breed in question through addition of sound, functional dogs from their line.

To have a goal like this, the breeder needs to be very knowledgeable about the breed they're involved with. Knowing the breed's history and original purpose, possible issues that may arise (both health-wise and temperament-wise), what sort of owner/household situation best suits the breed, some of the popular lines of the breed, and so on are all very integral to being knowledgeable and well-informed. Because of this, most reputable breeders specialize in one breed, sometimes two or three if they are related breeds or have a lot of expendable time and money. A lot of both of these things go into responsible breeding of purebred dogs and these people very rarely profit or break even. It's a hobby to most of these people, like other money sink hobbies that rarely pay for themselves. ;)

A lot of people I know tend to ask me about different breeders when they're thinking about getting a dog, and a lot of times ask me to scout out ones they've found. I usually look at the breeder with the question of whether I myself would get a dog from them were I looking to buy a purebred of that breed.

The most important thing I usually look for initially is whether the breeders lines are healthy. This doesn't mean that they have yearly exams and vaccines and the vet says they're normal, to me. This means that the dogs have been tested for any appropriate genetic problems common to the breed - OFA hip/elbow or Pennhip testing, CERF certification, thyroid checks, any available DNA tests, and the breeder knows the health status of the dog's ancestors, as well. OFA and CERF have searchable databases, and breeders who do these screens are usually more than happy to tell you about it. If a breeder simply says that their dogs "never had any problems" and doesn't provide testing info, that's a major red flag. Once I'm satisfied that the requisite health checks have been performed, I look at what the breeder does with the animals.

Conformation competition (showing dogs) is great, but I don't see it as the be-all-end-all that some others seem to. I've seen some breeders with the attitude that slapping a Ch. title on a dog means the dog is okay to breed. I feel like function is more important than form, and if a dog can do what it's meant to do, then that's more valuable to me than whether the angulation of the animal's ears is precisely right or not, or whether the dog lines up with the current trends in the ring that the judges are looking for. Dogs with conformation errors who perform well for their breed's original purpose shouldn't necessarily be excluded from breeding just because they can't get titled, and I'd take an Afghan with a less showy coat who can chase down bunnies over one with perfect coat who can't course any day. I don't feel like there's some all-inclusive "do this and dog is ok for breeding" threshold, there's just a general feeling that's hard for me to quantify.

Generally, the more open and honest a breeder is about their breed and lines, the better. More details is never a bad thing. It's also a plus if the breeder is involved in rescue, and requires pet puppies bought from their lines to be spayed or neutered or only offers limited AKC registration for pet puppies. It's also good if the breeder remains a lifelong source of information and will take back dogs or assist with rehoming if the puppy doesn't work out for any reason.

Obviously pet stores and most people who advertise in the newspaper, and anyone breeding designer dogs, don't fall under my classification of a responsible breeder. I also still do think that a lot of people who want a purebred dog would be just as well served adopting a dog from a shelter instead. But if people have specific wants and are going to get a purebred, I just try to educate them and hope that they make a good decision about where to get the dog.

So, not quite a book, but maybe a novella here...hopefully I clarified my points well enough. I suck at writing essays. ;)
 
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flyhi

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Sep 18, 2008
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Sorry flyhi, didn't mean to make it sound like I look down on people who purchase a puppy responsibly. I agree with you that responsible breeders are a good thing.

I just meant that I get embarrassed because I probably seem like a hypocrite, spouting off to all my friends about adopting from a shelter when I have a purebred that didn't come from a shelter sitting next to me. :)
EqSci - No, you didn't sound like that at all! Sorry, just a little under the weather and my post came across as a little cranky, i see. ;) I was actually trying to agree with you! I feel like a hypocrite too sometimes even tho I have adopted before. Everyone's circumstances in pet ownership are different and i will try and keep an open mind about this always.

thanks BodhiBird!
 
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